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Who Would Have Kill Played?

If Kill was coaching last year, who would he had played at QB, Weber or Gray? The answer is easy. He would have played the person who would have given him the best chance to win. I can't say who that would have been but it wouldn't have been determined by the farce that Brewster used last year to select the starter.

Kill clearly has a much better idea what a QB has to do to be successful in his program. He would not have stuck with Weber if he felt that he wasn't the best.

As a matter of fact, when Kill started at Northern Illinois he benched the previous starter. He did it in a very honest way and got the kid to buy into a new role. That how an honest coach with integrity handles situations like that. Kill is a no nonsense coach who would have respected Weber but he would have played the best player whoever that may be. I can't say that I feel that was true about Brewster. I not even sure if knew who was the best QB or if he had the courage to make a change if he needed to do it. That may have cost him his job.
 

And now: the question of the day for our "qb-bashing" contingent...

In the future (starting this year) will you be as vocally critical and tend to bash the qb as much if that qb struggles, fails to win enough games, doesn't complete enough passes, has "nervous feet", or in any way messes up? What say you dopodoll????? What say you cjcarter8????? What say you killjoy????? I can't hear you killjoy...what say you? killjoy...killjoy...get over here killjoy! ; 0 )

What say any of you who love to bash the qb?????


Personally, I think who ever the qb is, the qb will be a college kid who is trying his best and I will be extremely unpleased IF the qb is bashed the way our former qb was bashed by a selected few nasty, rotten home fans.


AND: killjoy, killjoy, killjoy: do we hold Coach Kill personally responsible for what happens with the qb out there? And, IF the qb doesn't run the offense well enough to suit you qb bashers, will you start calling Coach Kill out?????????

Be honest now killjoy. (By the way, it is always SO nice to see you attaching yourself to any comments that I make. I know I can count on you and I do appreciate all of your efforts in your own little funny way.) So, even though I fail to thank you often enough for your rapt attention, it is comforting to know that my comments stir such a loyal response from you. You are just such a funny little dude or dudette, which ever your particuliar case may be.

; 0 )
 

Silvio said:
One last question. Who do you think OSU fans will hold in higher regard after their playing days are done at OSU Terrell Pryor or Craig Krenzel?
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Pryor will go down as saying some of the dumbest things ever, mainly this:
"Not everybody is a perfect person in the world. Everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever. I just feel that people need to give him a chance. I always looked up to Mike Vick, and I always will. I still think he’s one of the best quarterbacks. I love Mike Vick. I look up to him a lot.”
 

imthewalrus said:
In the future (starting this year) will you be as vocally critical and tend to bash the qb as much if that qb struggles, fails to win enough games, doesn't complete enough passes, has "nervous feet", or in any way messes up? What say you dopodoll????? What say you cjcarter8????? What say any of you who love to bash the qb?????

; 0 )
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I can say that I will be as critical of the play of the next QB as I was of the last. Will you be as much of an apologist for the next QB as you were for the last?
 

GopherInPittsburgh said:
Pryor will go down as saying some of the dumbest things ever, mainly this:
"Not everybody is a perfect person in the world. Everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever. I just feel that people need to give him a chance. I always looked up to Mike Vick, and I always will. I still think he’s one of the best quarterbacks. I love Mike Vick. I look up to him a lot.”
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So I'll take it that you answer to the question is Krenzel, player with lesser individual statistics but great team accomplishments?
 


Silvio said:
So I'll take it that you answer to the question is Krenzel, player with lesser individual statistics but great team accomplishments?
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I truly don't know. I'm not affiliated with OSU in any way, so I'm not sure what the general consensus is.
 

dude took some serious hits moving the ball

On the plus side, the NFL knows they are getting a QB that can take a hit and pop back up. Not sure I ever saw him limp off.
 

ruralgopher said:
Nowhere in that response is an answer to the Q that you quoted.
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Based on your previous posts, you and I both know that the point you were trying to make is "With the way fans talk about Weber, what is the upside for a local player to attend the U of M" and my post was saying that it doesn't matter what fans say and if a recruit is worried about what fans say they probably don't have the mental toughness to play college football.
The upside for a local product to stay home an play for the U of M is obvious. The chance to stay close to home, the chance to represent their home state, and the ability to play for the team they cheered for growing up. Just to name a few.
 

wait!what? said:
On the plus side, the NFL knows they are getting a QB that can take a hit and pop back up. Not sure I ever saw him limp off.
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Hopefully that isn't a top selling point for him. They defensive linemen are a little bigger/faster/stronger in the NFL. Hopefully, they are focusing more on his character, intelligence, and ability to throw a nice long ball (IMO).
 



Silvio said:
I'll sum up my frustrations with Weber (maybe other feel the same). He was never the problem, but he wasn't the solution. As an example I'll use the USD game this year. That loss was 100% on the defense in my opinion, yet if I recall correctly with under five minutes to go in the game he had a chance to lead a potential game winning drive (who knows if the defense could of held the lead) but it didn't happen. There were many times where Weber battled hard and lead teams back into games, but couldn't get the win. And as the QB, the Team Leader, and the highest profile player I hold that against him.
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I've more or less blocked that game from memory so I can't remember if this was in that five minute window you mentioned or earlier in the game, but Euree dropped an easy TD that would have ended up being the difference in the game. You can't blame Weber for that.
 

wren

You have selective memory on how you think a QB should be treated. Some of the things you said on the Strib blog about Gray were far worse than anybody has said about Weber. One of your choice remarks was that Gray wasn’t smart enough to learn the system and therefore he wasn't ready to play. This holier than thou attitude along with your dishonesty is really appalling.
 

SMU GOPHS FAN said:
I've more or less blocked that game from memory so I can't remember if this was in that five minute window you mentioned or earlier in the game, but Euree dropped an easy TD that would have ended up being the difference in the game. You can't blame Weber for that.
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It may have been earlier in the game if IIRC, which just goes to show that no matter the point in the game there are certain mistakes that you can make but not overcome. That play shows how it truly was a team loss.
 

killjoy, killjoy, killjoy: I NEVER said that. The only thing I...

ever pondered was why the people who bashed Weber so much and said he didn't deserve to be the starter would not address the fact that when Gray came into a game it was for only one or two plays at a time. You never did give me an answer about that. I don't think anyone ever answered that. What is your opinion about that killjoy.

You have such a lying way about you little killjoy. You said some truely nasty things over on that strib blog. And, you KNOW that people could enter comments by just typing in someone's moniker over there back then. There was NO security system over there. You and this dude who calls himself dopodoll (from south dakota) over here were especially nasty, viscious and used such filthy language.

You people were just so incredibly nasty over there.

There, that's all I have to say about that. You are basically totally inaccurate with your little thing here.

So, good bye for now killjoy. Have a really nice day. ; 0 )
 



imthewalrus said:
In the future (starting this year) will you be as vocally critical and tend to bash the qb as much if that qb struggles, fails to win enough games, doesn't complete enough passes, has "nervous feet", or in any way messes up? What say you dopodoll????? What say you cjcarter8????? What say you killjoy????? I can't hear you killjoy...what say you? killjoy...killjoy...get over here killjoy! ; 0 )

What say any of you who love to bash the qb?????


Personally, I think who ever the qb is, the qb will be a college kid who is trying his best and I will be extremely unpleased IF the qb is bashed the way our former qb was bashed by a selected few nasty, rotten home fans.


AND: killjoy, killjoy, killjoy: do we hold Coach Kill personally responsible for what happens with the qb out there? And, IF the qb doesn't run the offense well enough to suit you qb bashers, will you start calling Coach Kill out?????????

Be honest now killjoy. (By the way, it is always SO nice to see you attaching yourself to any comments that I make. I know I can count on you and I do appreciate all of your efforts in your own little funny way.) So, even though I fail to thank you often enough for your rapt attention, it is comforting to know that my comments stir such a loyal response from you. You are just such a funny little dude or dudette, which ever your particuliar case may be.

; 0 )
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Man, do you know what bashing is? Bashing is saying a player sucks, is terrible, or anything of that nature. I haven't done that at all. I pointed out one flaw in his game but from the sounds of it, it appears that you feel he has no flaws.

If that's the case then tell me this: why isn't he the top rated QB prospect in this year's draft? Or is that his teammates fault too?
 


wren

imthewalrus said:
ever pondered was why the people who bashed Weber so much and said he didn't deserve to be the starter would not address the fact that when Gray came into a game it was for only one or two plays at a time. You never did give me an answer about that. I don't think anyone ever answered that. What is your opinion about that killjoy.

You have such a lying way about you little killjoy. You said some truely nasty things over on that strib blog. And, you KNOW that people could enter comments by just typing in someone's moniker over there back then. There was NO security system over there. You and this dude who calls himself dopodoll (from south dakota) over here were especially nasty, viscious and used such filthy language.

You people were just so incredibly nasty over there.

There, that's all I have to say about that. You are basically totally inaccurate with your little thing here.



So, good bye for now killjoy. Have a really nice day. ; 0 )
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Do you make this stuff up when you are on drugs or what? All I can say is wow!
 

imthewalrus said:
You have such a lying way about you little killjoy. You said some truely nasty things over on that strib blog. And, you KNOW that people could enter comments by just typing in someone's moniker over there back then. There was NO security system over there. You and this dude who calls himself dopodoll (from south dakota) over here were especially nasty, viscious and used such filthy language.
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First of all, I was born and raised in South Dakota, but I have lived in Minnesota for over 13 years. Just so we're all clear on that.

Secondly, the person using my moniker on the STrib comments sections is most assuredly not me. I thought that would be evident by the writing style, but apparently not. I feel filthy enough having read some of that nonsense in the past. I don't think I could live with myself if I actually participated in it.
 

dpodoll68

I see you have already answered what my question was going to be about wren's accusation. Sometimes the man seems a little paranoid to me. I think it is time to get get back to football and the spring game.
 

cjcarter8 said:
A) Based on your previous posts, you and I both know that the point you were trying to make is "With the way fans talk about Weber, what is the upside for a local player to attend the U of M" and my post was saying that it doesn't matter what fans say and if a recruit is worried about what fans say they probably don't have the mental toughness to play college football.

B)The upside for a local product to stay home an play for the U of M is obvious. The chance to stay close to home, the chance to represent their home state, and the ability to play for the team they cheered for growing up. Just to name a few.
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To address point A) It isn't the way fans talk about Adam Weber, per se. We want the Adam Weber's of the world (or state, to be more specific) to stay and play for the Gophers. When one does, and does everything in his power to make Gopher football better, they should be treated better than Adam was, plain and simple. His mom shouldn't have to leave games because of the way our 'fans' are treating her son. It is college football for crying out loud. Furthermore, if you don't think that fans factor into a recruits decision making via atmosphere and program support you're nuts.

On to point B) Staying home, sure. Represent the home state, OK, maybe. Playing for the team they cheered for growing up?? Not likely, as the Vikes don't recruit. This has been debated ad nauseum on this board, but kids growing up in MN simply do not have the U tie like kids growing up in some other states are tied to their local B10 school.
 

Will he wash out, or have a career like Tom Brady?
Nobody knows how Weber will do in the NFL.
He has a chance, let's see what he does with it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
None of that answers my question. Good job defending an adult man, though.



I disagree. My taxes (along with the tuition myself and my wife paid, and will likely pay for all of our kids as well) pays for the institution that pays for the scholarship he enjoyed for 5 years. My ticket costs and interest in the program is why he was able to play for his hometown school, enjoy a free education, and (against all logic and reason) have people apparently interested in paying him for something he's really not very good at. You don't get all of that without receiving criticism when you fail. If he wanted to play football and not get criticized, he could've gone to any DIII school in the country. This is the Big Ten. It ain't intramurals.
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Now, you are officially full of it. None of your tuition or taxes go toward athletic scholarships at Minnesota. Not a penny. The U makes the Athletic Department pay for all scholarships from donations made directly to the Department. Your tickets are a voluntary cost. You have no financial stake that has been thrust upon you. What a load. Your bile toward Weber is bordering on psychotic.
 

Frankly, I think that Adam is going to stick with an NFL team. Not certain he'll get drafted, but he will no doubt be signed immediately after the draft as a free agent IF he isn't drafted. The young man can throw the ball around quite well and with well above average accuracy. Highly valued skills last I checked.

Lets wish him the best.:cool:
 

ruralgopher said:
To address point A) It isn't the way fans talk about Adam Weber, per se. We want the Adam Weber's of the world (or state, to be more specific) to stay and play for the Gophers. When one does, and does everything in his power to make Gopher football better, they should be treated better than Adam was, plain and simple. His mom shouldn't have to leave games because of the way our 'fans' are treating her son. It is college football for crying out loud. Furthermore, if you don't think that fans factor into a recruits decision making via atmosphere and program support you're nuts.

On to point B) Staying home, sure. Represent the home state, OK, maybe. Playing for the team they cheered for growing up?? Not likely, as the Vikes don't recruit. This has been debated ad nauseum on this board, but kids growing up in MN simply do not have the U tie like kids growing up in some other states are tied to their local B10 school.
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First of all, my post had nothing to do with fans harassing Weber's parents at games. That is uncalled for and absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, I never said anything about gameday atmosphere or program support. My statement was strictly regarding statements made within the arena of public opinion (mainly this website). To tie into my second point, the same fans that are on here criticizing players for a poor performance are the ones going to games, holding season tickets, tailgating before every game, introducing a new generation to Gopher sports by taking their kids to the games, they (most of them) love gopher football. The criticism stems from years of frustration from veiwing subpar teams constantly trotted out on to the field.
Herman Edwards said it the best "You play to win the game!" If that doesn't happen there's going to be unrest within a fanbase. This team went 3-9 last year and was atrocious on offense. I think some of the criticism is warranted. I know some LSU fans, just be happy we don't have fans like that. LSU was on the cusp of the BCS last year and the fans were still bashing their team and calling for Les Miles head.
To another point, the QB is natural going to take the majority of the heat for a failed offense. To steal an idea from Jon Gruden's QB Camp on ESPN, Gruden was discussing a play with Ryan Mallett where the RT missed a protection and the play resulted in a sack of Mallett. Gruden asked Mallett who missed the assignment and Mallett said the RT. Then Gruden asked but who looked bad. That's right Mallett looked bad. Mallett did not miss the assignment, but since he should have called out the assignment to the RT to ensure the blitz was picked up the blame ended up back on Mallett's shoulders.
QB may be the most glamorous position but because of that glamour they are going to receive the brunt of the criticism. That's just how it works. This situation is not unique to the Gopher fans and Adam Weber it happens through out the country. It will continue to happen here too if the Gophers go out next year and lay an egg and the offense is god awful. I guarantee Grey will be under fire but then again, that already started last year.
 

Wow. This thread is one for the books.

Back in the day on the Strib blog, I was one of the people calling for the coaches to give Gray more playing time. I said then and I'll say it again - Adam Weber may be one of the nicest people on the planet. I don't dislike him. I wish him well in whatever career he pursues.

BUT, my point back in the day was this - when a QB is struggling, I don't want the coach to leave him in the game out of "loyalty" and hope that things get better. Players are human - they have bad games - and when the QB is having a bad game (any QB, not just Weber), I want the coach to sit the struggling starter down, and let someone else have a crack at it. I also wanted to see what Gray could do given extended playing time at QB - something he has never been afforded to date. At the spring game 2 years ago, Gray showed me some real QB skills - including a much better touch on the deep ball than Weber, IMHO. So, when Weber struggled - as he did during his career - I just wanted to see Gray have a shot to see if he could do better.

I have no idea if Weber can be an effective NFL QB. In the right system, I think he could do it.

one final thought - as someone else said, the starting QB of any team - HS, College, Pros - is always going to be a lightning rod for criticism. The QB gets too much credit for a win, and too much blame for a loss. If Gray struggles this season, he will be criticized, and people will be calling for Parrish or Alipate. I can't help wondering if Wren will be sticking up for Gray in that scenario the way he stuck up for Weber...........
 

highwayman said:
Now, you are officially full of it. None of your tuition or taxes go toward athletic scholarships at Minnesota. Not a penny. The U makes the Athletic Department pay for all scholarships from donations made directly to the Department.
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Please try reading comprehension. My family's tuition, along with that of all past and present students', pays for the University to exist. Likewise, taxpayers in Minnesota have a portion of their taxes diverted to help the University remain in business. In a hypothetical world where no students enrolled at the U and paid tuition, and the state cut off funding, the institution would cease to exist. And thus, there would be no Athletic Department to issue scholarships. It's not that difficult of a concept to grasp. Every student/alumni/tax-paying citizen in the state of Minnesota is a stakeholder in the University of Minnesota, including its sports teams. I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and be told I can't voice my opinion, whether positive or negative.

highwayman said:
Your tickets are a voluntary cost. You have no financial stake that has been thrust upon you.
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It's interesting that you choose the phrases "voluntary" and "thrust upon you". Adam Weber made a voluntary choice to attend the University. The opportunity to be a Division I-A football player and receive a free education was not thrust upon him. The fact that I, and others like me, care so much about how my University's football team plays is what enabled him to receive that free education and ply his trade 12-13 Saturdays per year in front of thousands of fans. That we pay for tickets, buy merchandise, show up to Victory Walks, tailgate, stay after the game and sing our alma mater, etc., etc. is what makes all of that possible. You don't get all the benefits and privileges that come with that status, and not get any of the downside when your performance warrants it. That's not how the world works. The alternative is that few people outside the team's friends and family care about the team, and the football team would basically be the equivalent of women's softball. Given a choice, I'm quite confident Adam Weber would choose the former over the latter.

highwayman said:
Your bile toward Weber is boarding on psychotic.
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Please show me one thing I've ever said about Adam Weber on this board that's not about his play. I've said time and again that he's the kind of guy I'd want my daughter to marry, but not the kind of guy I want QBing my football team. He's a grown man. He can take the criticism. He doesn't need babysitters like you to protect him from the slings and arrows. In my opinion, the way you infantilize grown men is far more offensive than anything I've ever said about Adam Weber.
 

ruralgopher said:
...(as it pertains to Craig Krenzel and Terrelle Pryor)...One led them to a natl championship, one has already led them to 3 BT titles and may get another one, has destroyed UM and maybe even a natl title of his own. Both had off-field issues...
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ruralgopher, just out of curiosity, what 'off-field issues' did both Krenzel and Pryor have that you mentioned above?

I must admit...I don't pay real close attention, but wasn't one of them a molecular genetics major, and the other known for selling/swapping a few personal belongings for tatoos as a freshman?

Was there other stuff, too?

1. legal issues? time spent in a federally-funded gated community? jail?
2. abusing women?
3. drugs? alcohol? DUI's?
4. guns and/or other weapons?
5. violence toward others?
6. academic/cheating scandals?
7. encounters with police? others in authority? police blotters?
8. poor sportsmanship/bad mouthing coaches? teammates? opponents? referrees? game officials? members of the media? inappropriate celebrations on the field?
9. taking candy from babies?
10. reflecting poorly on their own families? hometowns? football programs? university?

Hope to hear your reply.
 

shortorneryone: It WAS and STILL is really bad form to have you "so called Gopher fans" going SO hard after Weber. IF Gray struggles, I do NOT want to hear any "so called Gopher fans" going hard after him the way they went after Weber. Anyone who does would be a jerk, a creep, a stiff and a basher. I am TIRED of that kind of crowd behavior. I will always go head to head in this forum or any where else if a kid who is giving it his best is being bashed by "so-called fans..."

So, shortorneryone: I will be all over you if you start bashing Gray on this blog or any where else if he should happen to struggle, not get enough support from the o-line or the rushing game or because a bunch of poor passroutes are being run. Personally, my guess is that this team will be better coached, have more discipline and will quite possibly function better than any brewster team ..just because we now have a real coach who knows exactly what he wants to do and has a clue about how to teach that to the kids..bash a coach or an ad or a prexy all you want if things don't go well...those dudes are paid a LOT of money to take the heat. Those dudes have got ALL the power and call ALL of the shots. But LEAVE the kids alone. That's where I have been coming from and WILL be coming from shortorneryone. Since the qb is the kid who takes virtually all the crap from the "so-called-home-fans..." I will especially stand up against bashing of the qb. So, just don't bash the qb shortorneryone. Things will be cool then... ; 0 )
 

dinkything said:
ruralgopher, just out of curiosity, what 'off-field issues' did both Krenzel and Pryor have that you mentioned above?

I must admit...I don't pay real close attention, but wasn't one of them a molecular genetics major, and the other known for selling/swapping a few personal belongings for tatoos as a freshman?

Was there other stuff, too?

1. legal issues? time spent in a federally-funded gated community? jail?
2. abusing women?
3. drugs? alcohol? DUI's?
4. guns and/or other weapons?
5. violence toward others?
6. academic/cheating scandals?
7. encounters with police? others in authority? police blotters?
8. poor sportsmanship/bad mouthing coaches? teammates? opponents? referrees? game officials? members of the media? inappropriate celebrations on the field?
9. taking candy from babies?
10. reflecting poorly on their own families? hometowns? football programs? university?

Hope to hear your reply.
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He might have mistaken Krenzel for Troy Smith, who led his team to a NC game and who also had some off the field issues early on his career.
 

dinkything-
I stand corrected, it was not Krenzel who had off-field issues.
 


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