WCCO Football Story

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gophernut1 said:
Not sure I like the term "Whistle blowing professor" being used. Find a U of M professor who doesn't like football and finds it violent is like finding a Republican who doesn't like taxes. Both might have good reasons for why they think like they do, but neither is news breaking if they find people are part of the activity that agree with them. Sees like news creation vs. new reporting. Especially if this is even close to what was posted here on Gopherhole a year or so ago.
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Seems like it’s going to be roughly the same story that was posted on here last year.
 

I wan't there obviously but the Grant Norton story just doesn't add up. The claim the fame seeking ex professor makes is that he was vomiting up blood all the time and rapidly lost 40 lbs but in spite of the staff knowing all of this Grant was still forced to practice and was punished for losing weight.

I get that football is brutal and players are not always treated the greatest but I can't imagine a world where the medical staff would allow a player that was constantly throwing up blood to continue practicing. That feels like complete BS to me. Especially in a time where lawsuits for this kind of stuff are very prevalent. More likely to me would be the player keeping his medical issues secret from the training staff, but that is just speculation on my part from what I know about how all that works.

A key part to the Grant Norton story is right at the start where he apparently felt the writing was on the wall from day 1 that he wasn't going to start. So you have a player who feels he was misled in recruiting talking to a professor who clearly has it out for the football program....hmmm....definitely no potential for some massive bias there.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I wan't there obviously but the Grant Norton story just doesn't add up. The claim the fame seeking ex professor makes is that he was vomiting up blood all the time and rapidly lost 40 lbs but in spite of the staff knowing all of this Grant was still forced to practice and was punished for losing weight.

I get that football is brutal and players are not always treated the greatest but I can't imagine a world where the medical staff would allow a player that was constantly throwing up blood to continue practicing. That feels like complete BS to me. Especially in a time where lawsuits for this kind of stuff are very prevalent. More likely to me would be the player keeping his medical issues secret from the training staff, but that is just speculation on my part from what I know about how all that works.

A key part to the Grant Norton story is right at the start where he apparently felt the writing was on the wall from day 1 that he wasn't going to start. So you have a player who feels he was misled in recruiting talking to a professor who clearly has it out for the football program....hmmm....definitely no potential for some massive bias there.
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It happens all the time to highly rated recruits where they come up against their limitations. Reality bites. The realization (or lack of) that they are average Joes compared to other players. Every kid handles the pressure and change differently. Vic Viramontes cut his loses and left the program realizing that he was not cut out to be a Big Ten QB.

Could it be from what I read that there are perceived pressures and high expectations from the dad? This kid was the first in his family to go to college? The fear of "failure" can be a powerful psychological influence coupled with being away from home for the first time. It can be very paralyzing. Some kids gravely fear disappointing their families.

I am speaking from experience. A kid from my home town who was first to go to college from his family with much fanfare ended up committing suicide.
 
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You ever seen max running behind men half his age at a stadium? Whatever his career is it amounts to kisn a22 to a sickening point.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I wan't there obviously but the Grant Norton story just doesn't add up. The claim the fame seeking ex professor makes is that he was vomiting up blood all the time and rapidly lost 40 lbs but in spite of the staff knowing all of this Grant was still forced to practice and was punished for losing weight.

I get that football is brutal and players are not always treated the greatest but I can't imagine a world where the medical staff would allow a player that was constantly throwing up blood to continue practicing. That feels like complete BS to me. Especially in a time where lawsuits for this kind of stuff are very prevalent. More likely to me would be the player keeping his medical issues secret from the training staff, but that is just speculation on my part from what I know about how all that works.

A key part to the Grant Norton story is right at the start where he apparently felt the writing was on the wall from day 1 that he wasn't going to start. So you have a player who feels he was misled in recruiting talking to a professor who clearly has it out for the football program....hmmm....definitely no potential for some massive bias there lot of the grant norton story does add up.
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It does add up, from what I’ve heard this is just the beginning🤷🏼‍♂️
 



alaska said:
Youv'e heard from who? Or are you just saying this pretending to be an insider. Im assuming that is the case.
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Why would I pretend to be an insider, look at previous posts, pretty sure everyone on here knows who I am by now. I've had conversations with Jason Stahl and a variety of people involved in this story.
 

gopherfan007 said:
Why would I pretend to be an insider, look at previous posts, pretty sure everyone on here knows who I am by now. I've had conversations with Jason Stahl and a variety of people involved in this story.
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I for one don't have the foggiest idea who you are. So not sure it is fair to say that everyone on here knows who you are. :)

As for talking to people involved with the story, have you spoken with people on the football training staff as well or just people in the Stahl camp? Because Stahl 100% has an axe to grind with the University.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I for one don't have the foggiest idea who you are. So not sure it is fair to say that everyone on here knows who you are. :)

As for talking to people involved with the story, have you spoken with people on the football training staff as well or just people in the Stahl camp? Because Stahl 100% has an axe to grind with the University.
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Here's a good hint: https://www.startribune.com/gophers...led-on-domestic-assault-allegation/497519741/

Yes, I was very involved with the team around that same timeframe, and have spoken with a few players recently.
 




Yeah, I recall this poster. He got his glasses broke and was upset.
 

gopherfan007 said:
Here's a good hint: https://www.startribune.com/gophers...led-on-domestic-assault-allegation/497519741/

Yes, I was very involved with the team around that same timeframe, and have spoken with a few players recently.
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He is the guy who Shannon Brooks beat up. I don't remember much about the thread where he was on here crying about Shannon except that I started the thread feeling bad for him and I ended the thread completely understanding why Shannon Brooks beat him up. He is pretty obsessed with the program and has an overblown sense of self (thinking the whole board would remember his screen name).

Cool story. Shannon Brooks beat you up and now you hate Gopher football.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I wan't there obviously but the Grant Norton story just doesn't add up. The claim the fame seeking ex professor makes is that he was vomiting up blood all the time and rapidly lost 40 lbs but in spite of the staff knowing all of this Grant was still forced to practice and was punished for losing weight.

I get that football is brutal and players are not always treated the greatest but I can't imagine a world where the medical staff would allow a player that was constantly throwing up blood to continue practicing. That feels like complete BS to me. Especially in a time where lawsuits for this kind of stuff are very prevalent. More likely to me would be the player keeping his medical issues secret from the training staff, but that is just speculation on my part from what I know about how all that works.

A key part to the Grant Norton story is right at the start where he apparently felt the writing was on the wall from day 1 that he wasn't going to start. So you have a player who feels he was misled in recruiting talking to a professor who clearly has it out for the football program....hmmm....definitely no potential for some massive bias there.
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Norton was also only on campus for 2 months. He arrived later then all of the FR (August) and decided to transfer by October. For the sake of the argument, lets assume the U coaches are horrible people.
 



gopherfan007 said:
It does add up, from what I’ve heard this is just the beginning🤷🏼‍♂️
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If I had a dime for every 'just the beginning' claim by a reporter I'd be a rich man.

I remember the folks who ambushed Jerry in a parking lot to talk to him about some player incident he wasn't even aware of yet talked that one up as 'just the beginning'.

The editor from the star trib who talked about how Jerry Kill couldn't 'awe shucks' his way out of whatever incident they tried to pin on him said similar things.

Nothing came of any of that, but from the reporters you'd think they had some big story.

Local guys get really excited about their stories, understandably, but if they've got a lot they'll just lay all out there. If they've got a one or two people they'll put that out there.... we'll see...
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
He is the guy who Shannon Brooks beat up. I don't remember much about the thread where he was on here crying about Shannon except that I started the thread feeling bad for him and I ended the thread completely understanding why Shannon Brooks beat him up. He is pretty obsessed with the program and has an overblown sense of self (thinking the whole board would remember his screen name).

Cool story. Shannon Brooks beat you up and now you hate Gopher football.
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Definitely not an overblown sense of self at all. Originally came on here to clear the air with what happened and not be belittled by die-hard gopher keyboard warriors. Should've I done things differently? Sure. And most definitely not obsessed with the program at all. It was a dream come true being able to work for the team, but was horrified by things that I saw and how people were treated.
 

Sheeeeesh! How many characters are out there? Do they all have to hate Gopher Football? There are always those fractions of a percentage out there who are the antimatters. For every positive, there has to be a negative counterbalance.

Did something in their lives make them the person that they are? These cast of characters seem to spin negatively and magnetically find each other including a sports reporter. Their stars all seem to align to "unnecessarily rough up" poor suffering Gopher fans.

Stay tuned to have our sensibilities assaulted.
 

gopherfan007 said:
Definitely not an overblown sense of self at all. Originally came on here to clear the air with what happened and not be belittled by die-hard gopher keyboard warriors. Should've I done things differently? Sure. And most definitely not obsessed with the program at all. It was a dream come true being able to work for the team, but was horrified by things that I saw and how people were treated.
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Have you worked with other college football programs?
 

gopherfan007 said:
Definitely not an overblown sense of self at all. Originally came on here to clear the air with what happened and not be belittled by die-hard gopher keyboard warriors. Should've I done things differently? Sure. And most definitely not obsessed with the program at all. It was a dream come true being able to work for the team, but was horrified by things that I saw and how people were treated.
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Sorry, but doesn't add up to me. If things are so horrible there, why not more transfers, especially with the free transfer rule now in affect. Gophers have had very few transfer out relative to other programs.
 

gopherfan007 said:
Definitely not an overblown sense of self at all. Originally came on here to clear the air with what happened and not be belittled by die-hard gopher keyboard warriors. Should've I done things differently? Sure. And most definitely not obsessed with the program at all. It was a dream come true being able to work for the team, but was horrified by things that I saw and how people were treated.
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What?

You're not doing any 'clear the air' with vague characterizations ... that's not what someone who wants to talk about a thing / 'clear the air' does.
 

The professors article made a big point of so many medical retirements from Fleck’s first class. Benjamin St Juste had to medically retire from football at Michigan, now he is in the nfl. The professor seems to miss on the nuance of what medical retirements actually are. A good percentage are actually very capable of still playing football, but often have fallen down the depth chart and agree to free up their scholarship spot and focus on their degrees instead of a future in football.
 

btowngopher said:
The professors article made a big point of so many medical retirements from Fleck’s first class. Benjamin St Juste had to medically retire from football at Michigan, now he is in the nfl. The professor seems to miss on the nuance of what medical retirements actually are. A good percentage are actually very capable of still playing football, but often have fallen down the depth chart and agree to free up their scholarship spot and focus on their degrees instead of a future in football.
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Yeah if that's the case 'medical retirement' is not a good replacement for actually examining people's health.

I probably couldn't play too... because I'm old, healthy, but not play CFB.... I'd be broken after one hit.

The measurement for 'health' and 'can play full contact sport' are not =.
 

gopherfan007 said:
Definitely not an overblown sense of self at all. Originally came on here to clear the air with what happened and not be belittled by die-hard gopher keyboard warriors. Should've I done things differently? Sure. And most definitely not obsessed with the program at all. It was a dream come true being able to work for the team, but was horrified by things that I saw and how people were treated.
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I think you need to check your definition of keyboard warrior. That would imply that we thought we were part of the team. Nope, just fans on a message board.

We thought you and your story seemed bizarre. It's sort of like this interaction. You come on here and expect people to remember that GopherFan007 is the guy Shannon Brooks beat up and you only pop up during controversy. You come off as a bitter ex girlfriend.

Let it go.
 

I know some former d1 football and hockey players. One played in the NHL. They are in pain a large part of their playing career and many deal with affects their life after sports. It's understood by most that delve that far in (and at that level) that those are the consequences. And none of them regret their decision (of the players I know).

Heck, even pro tennis players are in pain a decent amount of time. Most of us mortals quit the sport when we realize those are the consequences but the high level players keep pushing through.
 

btowngopher said:
The professors article made a big point of so many medical retirements from Fleck’s first class. Benjamin St Juste had to medically retire from football at Michigan, now he is in the nfl. The professor seems to miss on the nuance of what medical retirements actually are. A good percentage are actually very capable of still playing football, but often have fallen down the depth chart and agree to free up their scholarship spot and focus on their degrees instead of a future in football.
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It will be interesting if that is the focus. One could make the argument that a coach with more medical retirements is being more careful with the health and well-being of the athletes.
 

TNGophfan said:
Sorry, but doesn't add up to me. If things are so horrible there, why not more transfers, especially with the free transfer rule now in affect. Gophers have had very few transfer out relative to other programs.
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He'd rather speak in riddles and innuendos because his ex bf (the Gopher football team) has moved on.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
What?

You're not doing any 'clear the air' with vague characterizations ... that's not what someone who wants to talk about a thing / 'clear the air' does.
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This is just it. If there are really atrocious things going on, be a man and report them. Report them, in real time, to entities outside the U of MN football team.
 

Clark W. Griswold said:
It will be interesting if that is the focus. One could make the argument that a coach with more medical retirements is being more careful with the health and well-being of the athletes.
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Also 'medical retirements bad' could also encourage some folks looking to avoid such things because of how it looks ... to make poor choices.

If we're just counting medical retirements without context, the incentive goes sideways FAST.
 


gopherfan007 said:
It does add up, from what I’ve heard this is just the beginning🤷🏼‍♂️
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Is your position that everyone on the staff, including medical staff is so cruel or afraid of PJ that they saw a player vomiting blood more than once and didn't immediately take him to the hospital? Any medical personnel would know that's a serious symptom and needs to be checked out immediately. If the medical staff/coaching staff saw and did nothing, either they themselves are cruel or you're trying to say PJ has such an iron grip and is so cruel he knew it happened and let it continue. To me that seems quite unlikely, which is why most say it doesn't add up.

What makes more sense to me would be the idea that Grant was vomiting blood, in the mornings or in private, but due to his anxiety he did not want others to know. Then some of the story starts making a bit more sense. I could see PJ being upset that Grant kept such a serious thing from him (see the quota about Grant being a liability).

I'm not trying to say football isn't brutal, but so far it seems like this piece could be written about any football team, not just the U. Im willing to change my mind if the report details specific negligence or cruelty that the U participated in that you wouldn't see at another program, but otherwise spinning this as a problem specifically with the U over college football in general is disingenuous.
 

Guessing it will be primarily GHer's tuning in for this one tonight. Audience probably doubles...
 

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