USC may be losing a big time recruit

[coolhandgopher]

Pretty interesting development here. . .decommitting from USC to go to Miss. St? Odd choice, although I believe Sidney's originally from Mississippi. Part of me wonders if the Reggie Bush/O.J. Mayo mess is going to hit USC soon. . .I recently read that the NCAA has combined the investigation between the two sports at USC, which is supposedly bad news-it would point to the entire dept. being corrupt rather than just a rogue booster or two. I could be reaching and it could be just a kid changing his mind, but it's an odd move from my p.o.v.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14713260

 

[BleedGopher]

If USC is heading for some big trouble due to the Bush/Mayo saga, Tim Floyd would have been smart to take that Arizona job. It certainly would have been easier to just move on and leave the scandal behind him.

Go Gophers!!

 

[KyGopherfan]

In SEC country, they call MSU's coach, Rick "Dollar Bill" $tansbury. There's been a lot of stories, fair or unfair, that he's very shady recruiter. So this actually doesn't surprise me.

 

[mnboiler]

KyGopherfan how is that different than Tim Floyd or Billy G or John Cal?

 

[KyGopherfan]

KyGopherfan how is that different than Tim Floyd or Billy G or John Cal?

I'm not fan of Billy G., but I don't think he cheated. If you look at the recruits he had coming to Kentucky, he definitely didn't have to pay them. I don't know about Floyd at all. Calipari is very slithery. He'll probably get UK on probation in 5 years. I never said $tansbury was the only coach who was shady. I was just commenting on this one specific case.

 

[mnboiler]

I'm not fan of Billy G., but I don't think he cheated. If you look at the recruits he had coming to Kentucky, he definitely didn't have to pay them. I don't know about Floyd at all. Calipari is very slithery. He'll probably get UK on probation in 5 years. I never said $tansbury was the only coach who was shady. I was just commenting on this one specific case.

Billy G did pay Daniel Orton's dad. He admitted it to ESPN. Orton's dad came in and "talked" to a elite camp hosted by BG(and maybe UK) and Billy paid him for his services. Although it is legal what he did it sure isn't in the sprit of the NCAA rules. He is really pushing the edge of the NCAA grey area. There is a link with the full story from ESPN.

If and when Coach Cal get's UK in trouble I hope the NCAA grows a pair and gives UK what they have coming. After 4 major NCAA Infractions I would hope the NCAA would send a message with the 5, if and when it happens.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3710807

 

[coolhandgopher]

Good point Bleed. Anyway, it looks like it may have been USC backing off of Sidney rather than the other way around. The red flags must be massive for schools to run the other way from an elite big man prospect.

http://community.foxsports.com/blog...TELEP_SIDNEY_ON_VERGE_OF_CHANGING_ALLEGIANCES

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Tubby Recruited At Sidney At UK

He visited Lexington campus as HS freshman or sophomore.

 

[JohnnyGopher]

Ky fan is right, Mississippi St has one of the worst reputations in the country as far as cheating goes. Even in SEC country they stand out.

 

[The Truth]

I'm not fan of Billy G., but I don't think he cheated. If you look at the recruits he had coming to Kentucky, he definitely didn't have to pay them. I don't know about Floyd at all. Calipari is very slithery. He'll probably get UK on probation in 5 years. I never said $tansbury was the only coach who was shady. I was just commenting on this one specific case.

What evidence do you have because I'm sure the NCAA would love to hear about it since the head of the Infractions Committee said there were no ongoing investigations regarding Calipari and they cleared him fully in regards to the Marcus Camby situation at UMASS.

Roy Williams has NCAA violations, Rick Pitino has NCAA violations, Jim Calhoun is knee deep in dirt and NCAA investigations, Coach K used an ineligible player and the Duhon/Boozer situations were never investigated. Yet Calipari is the dirty one.

I'm kind of tired of seeing the sour grapes going around because it's all based on one thing: Fear and jealousy. At least give me some real evidence, something concrete, and not fantastical innuendo that you hear on the recruiting trail and AAU circuits.

 

[KyGopherfan]

What evidence do you have because I'm sure the NCAA would love to hear about it since the head of the Infractions Committee said there were no ongoing investigations regarding Calipari and they cleared him fully in regards to the Marcus Camby situation at UMASS.

Roy Williams has NCAA violations, Rick Pitino has NCAA violations, Jim Calhoun is knee deep in dirt and NCAA investigations, Coach K used an ineligible player and the Duhon/Boozer situations were never investigated. Yet Calipari is the dirty one.

I'm kind of tired of seeing the sour grapes going around because it's all based on one thing: Fear and jealousy. At least give me some real evidence, something concrete, and not fantastical innuendo that you hear on the recruiting trail and AAU circuits.

So let me get this straight...you're a UK fan...you come onto ANOTHER team's online fan forum...and you have the nerve to actually post a comment that you're tired of other fans talking about your coach? Either you're not very bright or you're a glutton for punishment. The sensible thing would just stay away from forums of rival teams!!!! Do you actually expect some UK love fest on here? As a matter fact, you're a Tubby hater anyway, so I'm not even sure how you're able to continue posting here. The only interest you have in the Gophers is hoping to catch wind of some bad news so you can run and spout about it on the UK boards.

 

[The Truth]

So let me get this straight...you're a UK fan...you come onto ANOTHER team's online fan forum...and you have the nerve to actually post a comment that you're tired of other fans talking about your coach? Either you're not very bright or you're a glutton for punishment. The sensible thing would just stay away from forums of rival teams!!!! Do you actually expect some UK love fest on here? As a matter fact, you're a Tubby hater anyway, so I'm not even sure how you're able to continue posting here. The only interest you have in the Gophers is hoping to catch wind of some bad news so you can run and spout about it on the UK boards.

Constantly defending myself is old and I have no inclination to do so anymore. If you're going to make an allegation please back it up with more than "he's dirty" or "he's slimy" and debate the merits of your argument. The fact that you can't lends creedance to my original declaration (which was a general statement aimed at message boards in particular but could also be used to encompass a few columnists as well) that people are making outrageous statements based on nothing substantial and don't really wish to discuss or debate outside of childish ad hominem attacks. Thus, if you don't like what you'll read in response perhaps you should refrain from posting it in the first place.

I have been nothing but respectful of Minnesota and its fans and will continue to be a member of this board as long as I see fit to do so. I've offered opinions and discussion on a wide range of topics and sought outside perspective within this forum on certain issues that do deal with Kentucky (mostly regarding the state political situation and how the Minnesota AD functions) and if anyone wants to comment on a Kentucky related (or a general CBB issue that I feel I can bring something to the table on) I will continue to participate.

I've been called a bigot, a racist, a hillbilly and a host of other names since I started posting on this board (mostly by a small cabal of posters. The rest have been rather kind and I appreciate that) but that hasn't changed my great opinion of the people of Minnesota or the fanbase of the Gophers.

 

[Jim V2]

If you're going to make an allegation please back it up with more than "he's dirty" or "he's slimy" and debate the merits of your argument. The fact that you can't lends creedance to my original declaration (which was a general statement aimed at message boards in particular but could also be used to encompass a few columnists as well) that people are making outrageous statements based on nothing substantial and don't really wish to discuss or debate outside of childish ad hominem attacks.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. I'm not one for name calling, but some of this you bring on yourself with posts like that. Obviously on the VERY slim chance that anyone on this board had damning facts, that person wouldn't be bringing it to light on gopherhole--it would be going to the NCAA. So your request for facts here is ludicrous. BUt you know the old saying--where there's smoke, there's fire. YOu don't have to come here, or any other fan site, to see the smoke billowing. (And if you haven't seen the smoke billowing, you should feel free to talk to journalists--either national or at the places where Cal has worked, or faculty members at those schools, or...) Insisting that one shouldn't form opinions about the existence of a fire when there are clouds of smoke does nothing for your credibility. And repeating the mantra of "the NCAA says he no violations" is equally pointless and insulting to our intelligence. OBviously we know that. But just because someone has never had a speeding ticket doesn't mean he isn't a frequent speeder. And since the NCAA can't officially say anything about suspicions, none of us know how close Cal is/has been to trouble. And when you insult people's intelligence, you should expect that some responses will be unkind.

So I hope you keep coming here and adding insights--becasue you have some good ones, but please either don't bother repeating the useless defenses, or be prepared for attacks--probably in somewhat less judicious terms than I use.

 

[dinkything]

...

I'm kind of tired of seeing the sour grapes going around because it's all based on one thing: Fear and jealousy. At least give me some real evidence, something concrete, and not fantastical innuendo that you hear on the recruiting trail and AAU circuits.

the truth,

you are correct in your assessment of what is pervasive amongst many gopher fans...

 

[Plinnius]

I'm kind of tired of seeing the sour grapes going around because it's all based on one thing: Fear and jealousy. At least give me some real evidence, something concrete, and not fantastical innuendo that you hear on the recruiting trail and AAU circuits.

Does World Wide Wes not steer recruits toward Calipari coached teams?

 

[The Truth]

Sorry, that doesn't wash. I'm not one for name calling, but some of this you bring on yourself with posts like that. Obviously on the VERY slim chance that anyone on this board had damning facts, that person wouldn't be bringing it to light on gopherhole--it would be going to the NCAA. So your request for facts here is ludicrous. BUt you know the old saying--where there's smoke, there's fire.

The point is you should argue the merits of the case. There is plenty of smoke on a lot of coaches (Duke's being a prime example) but no one wants to touch that with a ten foot poll in the same fashion as no one wanted to touch John Wooden. If the evidence is there (and it is) you should be able to discuss the issue without resorting to "he's a snake". At least give me the why and the how.

YOu don't have to come here, or any other fan site, to see the smoke billowing. (And if you haven't seen the smoke billowing, you should feel free to talk to journalists--either national or at the places where Cal has worked, or faculty members at those schools, or...)

Several journalists (Mike DeCourcey off the top of my head) have written in the past that Tubby Smith is a lazy recruiter who didn't work hard enough on the recruiting trail at Kentucky. Would you agree with that statement or would you rather see evidence and data to inform your opinion and then debate the points made?

Insisting that one shouldn't form opinions about the existence of a fire when there are clouds of smoke does nothing for your credibility. And repeating the mantra of "the NCAA says he no violations" is equally pointless and insulting to our intelligence. OBviously we know that. But just because someone has never had a speeding ticket doesn't mean he isn't a frequent speeder. And since the NCAA can't officially say anything about suspicions, none of us know how close Cal is/has been to trouble. And when you insult people's intelligence, you should expect that some responses will be unkind.

Like Larry Vaught wrote in a recent article: no one in the media has shown any proof that rules have been broken. No one has cited any sources. All this is coming from innuendo, a problem at UMASS that he was cleared of and the fact that he's been a successful coach. Yes, he gave Milt Wagner a job (a job that helped him finish his degree and get into coaching) and his son ended up attending Memphis. That happens a lot of places (and is something that I have no problems with people raising red flags over. It's on the record and it's factual) and as soon as the player is gone the person in question is usually kicked to the curb (see Carlos Boozer's father). They don't usually earn a degree, stay on for six seasons and then move on to a better job. Hell, at least Milt was qualified for the job.

The problem I have is allegations being accepted as fact. That's the real issue here. If I accused your wife of being a whore based on seeing her in Victoria Secret buying risque lingerie or claimed that you embezzled money from your company because I saw you walking out of a bank during your lunch hour counting a substantial amount of cash and people said "Hey, he's right!"-would you not want to have the evidence heard and argue the case?

 

[The Truth]

Does World Wide Wes not steer recruits toward Calipari coached teams?

Wes does a lot of things and he seems to do them for free. Wes got his start by just walking up to a college recruiter one day (I think the college was FSU and it was for football) who was recruiting a friend of his from their neighborhood and told the guy "I'll help you get him" for no reason other than he just wanted to.

I think a lot of the stuff with Calipari and Wes and why Wes will tell some of these kids he mentors to go to play for Calipari is because of what Calipari did for Milt and Dejaun. Dejaun is Wes's goddson and Dejaun actually lived with him while Milt was overseas playing ball for a time.

And to be clear: Calipari isn't the only coach Wes is known to help out. I think the guy just enjoys being a player.

 

[gopheraschells]

The point is you should argue the merits of the case. There is plenty of smoke on a lot of coaches (Duke's being a prime example) but no one wants to touch that with a ten foot poll in the same fashion as no one wanted to touch John Wooden. If the evidence is there (and it is) you should be able to discuss the issue without resorting to "he's a snake". At least give me the why and the how.

you dont get it. this is our forum, we can talk about whichever coach we want. If you dont like it here is a thought. Quit posting on this thread and people wont have anyone to debate with, and this thread will go away and you will be relieved that no one is bashing kentucky. i didn't know education in the south was this bad

 

[mnboiler]

First of John Wooden was cleared of any wrong doing by the NCAA and to say differently you are insulting one of the greatest men who ever lived. The person you are after is Sam Gilbert. It is also more than you can say for Rupp.

Next every college basketball fan needs to read this article about World Wide Wes and then tell me if what does is above board.
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5735

About half way down this interview of with Joey Dorsey he talks about a "mansion" where the Memphis basketball team lives.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si.../2007/07/blog-q-with-memphis-joey-dorsey.html

What about the Marcus Camby saga at UMass slip right out the back door as the NCAA is coming in the front.
Not to mention Shawne Williams and the lawsuit that went away magically.

Ok maybe Cal is clean but I highly doubt it. He has come to close with the NCAA issues too many times. Ane when he does slip up at UK the rest of the basketball world is going to be laughing at UK and saying I told you so. Cal's ones saving grace might be that the Lexington paper lacks the balls or the staff to break the story that would give Cal a show-cause.

 

[coolhandgopher]

Is Coach Cal dirty? Maybe, but maybe not the dirtiest and perhaps cleaner than some of the assumed saints in the profession. One thing I'll give Cal credit for-he doesn't hide behind a facade of someone he isn't; looking at Cal, he gives off the appearance of a fast talking, slick hustler whose main goal is to win basketball games. When you look at Cal, he also seems to possess honesty and forthrightness with his players-seldom do players transfer away from his program, he won't advise his players to stay in college if they think they're ready for the NBA, and he also seems to have solid relationships with his assistants, who are beginning to make their own mark in college basketball (Tony Barbee at UTEP, Derek Kellogg at UMass, Josh Pastner at Memphis off the top of my head). In the dirty world of college basketball, Cal isn't a hypocrite like many others.

And while it's accurate to say that Cal hasn't received any NCAA violations on his watch and was cleared of the UMass fiasco, I think it's naive to look at the relationship he has with WW Wes and say it's about a guy who just likes to be a "player". Whether there's anything that the NCAA will be able to put their finger on in the relationship (they haven't yet), I would suspect that if Cal had been hired at Louisville, you and your Kentucky brethren would also wonder quite a bit about this relationship, and probably with good reason.

And really that gets to this point-if you're already sick and tired of the allegations against Cal-well, you ain't seen nothing yet. I've went on record at saying this is a fascinating marriage-the union of the stereotypical slick win at all cost coach with the stereotypical fanatical basketball program and fanbase that is starving for a national championship. Sounds like a made for Hollywood movie-and we all know how the script would end (something akin to that Hollywood classic (sarcasm intended) Blue Chips.

The scuttlebutt and conjecture raised on our little website pales in comparison to what's being said elsewhere, I'm sure. And it will continue to pale in comparison to what national and local writers, rival fanbases, and others will write and speak as Kentucky rises again to national title contenders. As long as Cal remains the coach at Kentucky, your program will have the spotlight shining upon it, for better and worse.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

The point is you should argue the merits of the case. There is plenty of smoke on a lot of coaches (Duke's being a prime example) but no one wants to touch that with a ten foot poll in the same fashion as no one wanted to touch John Wooden. If the evidence is there (and it is) you should be able to discuss the issue without resorting to "he's a snake". At least give me the why and the how.




Several journalists (Mike DeCourcey off the top of my head) have written in the past that Tubby Smith is a lazy recruiter who didn't work hard enough on the recruiting trail at Kentucky. Would you agree with that statement or would you rather see evidence and data to inform your opinion and then debate the points made?



Like Larry Vaught wrote in a recent article: no one in the media has shown any proof that rules have been broken. No one has cited any sources. All this is coming from innuendo, a problem at UMASS that he was cleared of and the fact that he's been a successful coach. Yes, he gave Milt Wagner a job (a job that helped him finish his degree and get into coaching) and his son ended up attending Memphis. That happens a lot of places (and is something that I have no problems with people raising red flags over. It's on the record and it's factual) and as soon as the player is gone the person in question is usually kicked to the curb (see Carlos Boozer's father). They don't usually earn a degree, stay on for six seasons and then move on to a better job. Hell, at least Milt was qualified for the job.

The problem I have is allegations being accepted as fact. That's the real issue here. If I accused your wife of being a whore based on seeing her in Victoria Secret buying risque lingerie or claimed that you embezzled money from your company because I saw you walking out of a bank during your lunch hour counting a substantial amount of cash and people said "Hey, he's right!"-would you not want to have the evidence heard and argue the case?

This part is HOGWASH. Who gives a crap with Mike DeCourcy thinks? He's a moron.

More Lack Of from The Truth.

 

[The Truth]

This is going to take awhile and if I misquote someone or misrepresent a position my apologies in advance

gopheraschells said
you dont get it. this is our forum, we can talk about whichever coach we want. If you dont like it here is a thought. Quit posting on this thread and people wont have anyone to debate with, and this thread will go away and you will be relieved that no one is bashing kentucky. i didn't know education in the south was this bad

And as a member of this forum I will debate and discuss a topic as I see fit. I'm sorry if it upsets you that I seek to discuss things a little deeper than "Guy A sucks" or "Guy B is great". To be truthful, discussions like these usually open up to wider issues and make for good intellectual fodder. I also have an idea: If you can't discuss something past silly juvenile name calling..stay away.

mnboiler said

First of John Wooden was cleared of any wrong doing by the NCAA and to say differently you are insulting one of the greatest men who ever lived. The person you are after is Sam Gilbert. It is also more than you can say for Rupp.

Dan Wetzel already laid out the argument here http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-uclalegacy040206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns a couple of years ago. I think it speaks for itself and sums up my feelings on the issue. I'm never going to impugn Wooden's coaching ability but I will say that his sins are those of many but his record is whitewashed.

As to Rupp: I can point you to some resources if you wish. It helps to get both side of an issue. I can point you here http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/rupp.html and to Dick Gabriel's solid documentary on Rupp. Both examine, in-depth, the pro's and con's. And I think, in addition to what else is out there, you would draw a more well rounded opinion of Rupp that doesn't cast him as the evil black hat of a segregated South.

Was Rupp a flawed man of his time with outdated ideas on race and a host of other things? Sure, so is my Grandfather but he loves his great-grandchildren who are the by-product of his grandson and an African-American woman.

CONT

 

[The Truth]

CONT

coolhandgopher said

Is Coach Cal dirty? Maybe, but maybe not the dirtiest and perhaps cleaner than some of the assumed saints in the profession. One thing I'll give Cal credit for-he doesn't hide behind a facade of someone he isn't; looking at Cal, he gives off the appearance of a fast talking, slick hustler whose main goal is to win basketball games. When you look at Cal, he also seems to possess honesty and forthrightness with his players-seldom do players transfer away from his program, he won't advise his players to stay in college if they think they're ready for the NBA, and he also seems to have solid relationships with his assistants, who are beginning to make their own mark in college basketball (Tony Barbee at UTEP, Derek Kellogg at UMass, Josh Pastner at Memphis off the top of my head). In the dirty world of college basketball, Cal isn't a hypocrite like many others.

And while it's accurate to say that Cal hasn't received any NCAA violations on his watch and was cleared of the UMass fiasco, I think it's naive to look at the relationship he has with WW Wes and say it's about a guy who just likes to be a "player". Whether there's anything that the NCAA will be able to put their finger on in the relationship (they haven't yet), I would suspect that if Cal had been hired at Louisville, you and your Kentucky brethren would also wonder quite a bit about this relationship, and probably with good reason.

And really that gets to this point-if you're already sick and tired of the allegations against Cal-well, you ain't seen nothing yet. I've went on record at saying this is a fascinating marriage-the union of the stereotypical slick win at all cost coach with the stereotypical fanatical basketball program and fanbase that is starving for a national championship. Sounds like a made for Hollywood movie-and we all know how the script would end (something akin to that Hollywood classic (sarcasm intended) Blue Chips.

The scuttlebutt and conjecture raised on our little website pales in comparison to what's being said elsewhere, I'm sure. And it will continue to pale in comparison to what national and local writers, rival fanbases, and others will write and speak as Kentucky rises again to national title contenders. As long as Cal remains the coach at Kentucky, your program will have the spotlight shining upon it, for better and worse.

You continue to be a bright spot in this forum and one of the reasons I'm always eager to read your stuff. All the points you raised are valid and fair (well written and constructed too) and I want to discuss them further in depth if you so choose. I think some of the things you've highlighted (while I do not agree with all of them..more on that later) raise some wider ranging issues that fascinate me. I really look forward to discussing this further with you. You make for a good sparring partner.

FOT said

...............

I'm going to quote you out of context as well.

 

[mnboiler]

After reading the article about Wooden and Gilbert, it said that Gilbert paid players, I'm not arguing that, but it didn't say that Wooden knew what was going on. Again the NCAA cleared Wooden of all wrong doing.

I didn't take time to read the really really long article on Rupp, but it is safe to say that he had his flaws. He also comes from a different time and place than most of us here. I would guess most of the poster on GH come from the Minnesota and were born post civil rights movements or they were so young they don't have a first hand memory of it. Rupp came a different time and place were racist views were more acceptable. (FOR THE RECORD I'm not trying to justify racism there is no justification for racism.) I am an Ag Econ major at Purdue and the most famous alum from the department was none other than Earl Butz. I am very proud of his professional accomplishment but am not proud of his views on race. I just hope that Kentucky fans are willing to point out the Rupp had his flaws and stop glancing over his racial views. And for that The Truth I thank you for not hiding.

 

[tomdog]

I think that Cal is a complete fraud. His garbage would never play at a legitimate university. He recruits thugs and gang-bangers who have no interest in a B.A. More than half of his last recruiting class at Memphis had criminal records coming in. It's all about winning games with Cal. If that's all you care about -- good on ya. If you insist on keeping the charade of collegiate sports being about student-athletes, then you should stay far away from 'Cal'. Your call.

 

[KyGopherfan]

Constantly defending myself is old and I have no inclination to do so anymore. If you're going to make an allegation please back it up with more than "he's dirty" or "he's slimy" and debate the merits of your argument. The fact that you can't lends creedance to my original declaration (which was a general statement aimed at message boards in particular but could also be used to encompass a few columnists as well) that people are making outrageous statements based on nothing substantial and don't really wish to discuss or debate outside of childish ad hominem attacks. Thus, if you don't like what you'll read in response perhaps you should refrain from posting it in the first place.

I have been nothing but respectful of Minnesota and its fans and will continue to be a member of this board as long as I see fit to do so. I've offered opinions and discussion on a wide range of topics and sought outside perspective within this forum on certain issues that do deal with Kentucky (mostly regarding the state political situation and how the Minnesota AD functions) and if anyone wants to comment on a Kentucky related (or a general CBB issue that I feel I can bring something to the table on) I will continue to participate.

I've been called a bigot, a racist, a hillbilly and a host of other names since I started posting on this board (mostly by a small cabal of posters. The rest have been rather kind and I appreciate that) but that hasn't changed my great opinion of the people of Minnesota or the fanbase of the Gophers.

You're so full of it!! You're a known Tubby hater that can't let go. You actually have the nerve to complain about other fans trashing Cal when you're SOLE purpose of joining this board was to provide anti-Tubby garbage. You're not a Gopher fan, you're definitely not a Tubby fan, so I'm not sure why you're allowed to continue posting drivel on this board. No one gives a rat's ass about how you think Tubby did while coaching at UK. Most Gopher fans love Tubby and appreciate having him here. We don't care that he didn't sign a certain recruit at Kentucky, and coming over here telling us this is not going to change the affinity that Minnesotans have for Tubby.

And for the record, Calipari is a slimy, sleaze ball that not many other coaches particularly like at all. But don't worry, he'll have UK in the Final Four in 2 years and probation in 5 years. Just how you like it.

 

[The Truth]

mnboiler-Thank you for the reply. I think the Wooden situation is an interesting one. I have a hard time buying he had no idea (and the evidence suggests he did know) what was going on. Do I think he was handing Sam Gilbert a list of players he wanted and Sam flew out and handed out checks? No, I don't. But I do think he was willing to look the other way.

As to the Rupp issue: I've got zero issues discussing that. The only issue that I have is that people are in a rush to paint Rupp as a Klan member who was burning crosses in yards and acting like George Wallace on the schoolhouse steps to prevent black players from coming to Kentucky. The evidence suggests that Rupp had issues with race in the context of a man of his time within a divisive and inflamed period in American society but not as an obstructionist to integrating the SEC or Kentucky basketball.


Tomdog-"thugs and gangbangers" Wow. I'm not going to even dignify that with a response.

Kyfangopher-Again, the fact that I have to defend myself from these allegations is absurd. Find me this "hate" that you preach. Show me a post where I disparaged Coach Smith. I've been nothing but honest about his time at Kentucky when the issue has been brought up (never by me. Always by someone else.) and have been more than fair. You, on more than one occasion, have made offensive, off color remarks towards myself and towards the people of Kentucky. If anyone is a "hater" it is you sir.

As to your comment answer me this: Saul interviewed with Calipari for a position (a favor for his father is what I was told) and Calipari almost hired him but couldn't because the position required a more experienced recruiter and Saul didn't have the connections. So why would a man whose character and integrity are above reproach willingly set his son up to be in a position to be involved with someone some would characterize as a "snake"?

I don't expect you to be able to or willing to answer that but it's probably because Coach Smith has more class than you.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

After reading the article about Wooden and Gilbert, it said that Gilbert paid players, I'm not arguing that, but it didn't say that Wooden knew what was going on. Again the NCAA cleared Wooden of all wrong doing.

I didn't take time to read the really really long article on Rupp, but it is safe to say that he had his flaws. He also comes from a different time and place than most of us here. I would guess most of the poster on GH come from the Minnesota and were born post civil rights movements or they were so young they don't have a first hand memory of it. Rupp came a different time and place were racist views were more acceptable. (FOR THE RECORD I'm not trying to justify racism there is no justification for racism.) I am an Ag Econ major at Purdue and the most famous alum from the department was none other than Earl Butz. I am very proud of his professional accomplishment but am not proud of his views on race. I just hope that Kentucky fans are willing to point out the Rupp had his flaws and stop glancing over his racial views. And for that The Truth I thank you for not hiding.

Google "NCAA Death Penalty" and you'll find that Adolph Rupp and UK were first program EVER given that sanction by the NCAA in 1953. It was done because UK was paying its players even back then. UK continued to do so until 1989.

If Wooden cheated, he did so better than Rupp. For Adolph Rupp CERTAINLY cheated at UK also.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

mnboiler-Thank you for the reply. I think the Wooden situation is an interesting one. I have a hard time buying he had no idea (and the evidence suggests he did know) what was going on. Do I think he was handing Sam Gilbert a list of players he wanted and Sam flew out and handed out checks? No, I don't. But I do think he was willing to look the other way.

As to the Rupp issue: I've got zero issues discussing that. The only issue that I have is that people are in a rush to paint Rupp as a Klan member who was burning crosses in yards and acting like George Wallace on the schoolhouse steps to prevent black players from coming to Kentucky. The evidence suggests that Rupp had issues with race in the context of a man of his time within a divisive and inflamed period in American society but not as an obstructionist to integrating the SEC or Kentucky basketball.


Tomdog-"thugs and gangbangers" Wow. I'm not going to even dignify that with a response.

Kyfangopher-Again, the fact that I have to defend myself from these allegations is absurd. Find me this "hate" that you preach. Show me a post where I disparaged Coach Smith. I've been nothing but honest about his time at Kentucky when the issue has been brought up (never by me. Always by someone else.) and have been more than fair. You, on more than one occasion, have made offensive, off color remarks towards myself and towards the people of Kentucky. If anyone is a "hater" it is you sir.

As to your comment answer me this: Saul interviewed with Calipari for a position (a favor for his father is what I was told) and Calipari almost hired him but couldn't because the position required a more experienced recruiter and Saul didn't have the connections. So why would a man whose character and integrity are above reproach willingly set his son up to be in a position to be involved with someone some would characterize as a "snake"?

I don't expect you to be able to or willing to answer that but it's probably because Coach Smith has more class than you.

The comment about Saul interviewing with Calipari at UK is categorically FALSE.

Saul has very good connections in recruiting. He has been the lead recruiter on players like Devoe Joseph at The U (for example).

The nonsense written above by The Liar is yet more evidence of his/her/its bias against Tubby or any other Smith.

 

[coolhandgopher]

The Truth, I'm always up for good conversation and have generally enjoyed your posts on here, except when you engage in pissing matches with FoT.

Tomdog's statements are full of b.s. While at Memphis, 15 of the 18 four year players ended up graduating under Cal's watch (not including the three seniors who are on track to graduate this year). And while Cal had his share of knuckleheads at Memphis (Sean Banks, Joey Dorsey, Pierre Niles to name a few), to lump in the likes of Antonio Anderson, Derrick Rose, Chris Douglas Roberts and others as "thugs and gangbangers" is not only inaccurate but pretty strong profiling. I'm not a Cal apologist, but I hate when wrong information is forwarded to advance one's argument.

FoT, I read The Truth's comment to say that at one time Coach Cal interviewed Saul Smith as a favor to Tubby. He didn't state that Cal did so upon arrival at Kentucky. I don't know the veracity of this statement, but frankly you seem a bit overly rabid in any comment that The Truth makes about Tubby Smith or his family. I read nothing in that statement that could be construed as taking shots at Tubby.