UPDATED 8/24: Josh Perkins Commits to Gonzaga

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Gonzaga "The school Dan Monson put on the map"
 

gaunt006 said:
Ok so they have heard of Tubby, and? I wasn't trying to bash Tubby, I've meet the guy twice and I liked him a lot. One of my best friends in Denver was going to Tulsa to play for him, until Tubby got a better job. I was talking about the Gophers and the public perception outside of the state. Or in this case the region. I personally like Tubby, but I'm fan of the Gophers. Having coaches out and being aggressive raises the awareness of the program. Calhoun wrote in his book that they are not UNC, or Duke they need to go after at least five or six guys to fill one spot. I feel that's what is needed for this program at this time. That doesn't mean that I hate Tubby, or wish harm to him in anyway. I simply find the new trend more to my liking as a fan.

But you brought up something that I had never thought of (but I also didn't think I was bashing Tubby before), on Tuesday I'm going to see how many of our kids know where Tubby is coaching right now. I will bet it will be less than half. And again this is a program that plays in at least one top tournament every year this year it's City of Palms. They don't just read about these coaches, they see them in the stands in season and AAU. I don't think Tubby is as present in the kids minds as you think, and I also don't think it matters to a Gopher fan if high school kids from another part of the country know anything about Tubby but know I'm curious.

Again just for the record: Loved Tubby every time I spoke with him, more than one of his notes given on pressing of all thing, are present in my playbook (not a head coach atm), Tubby knows basketball, I bought and watch Minnesota Basketball the Journey every year at some point, If I can have the coaching career Tubby's had I would take it without question, and this is way coaches laugh at me when I tell them I read message boards.
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I think, simply, that many high school basketball players -- especially the best ones -- are not really knowledgeable fans, especially of college basketball. They don't have time to watch and follow and read about college basketball -- they're too busy playing. They know their favorite pro players, Lebron, etc., and know the programs that get on Sports Center the first 5 minutes. Not a lot else, in many cases.

Your story, and Josh Perkins calling Gonzaga "The University of Gonzaga" upon committing, are examples of this, and I can think of many others. A lot of these guys are recruited via relationships, and it's kind of shocking to us (knowledgeable fans) how little they actually know about the schools they're visiting.
 

gaunt006 said:
Ok so they have heard of Tubby, and? I wasn't trying to bash Tubby, I've meet the guy twice and I liked him a lot. One of my best friends in Denver was going to Tulsa to play for him, until Tubby got a better job. I was talking about the Gophers and the public perception outside of the state. Or in this case the region. I personally like Tubby, but I'm fan of the Gophers. Having coaches out and being aggressive raises the awareness of the program. Calhoun wrote in his book that they are not UNC, or Duke they need to go after at least five or six guys to fill one spot. I feel that's what is needed for this program at this time. That doesn't mean that I hate Tubby, or wish harm to him in anyway. I simply find the new trend more to my liking as a fan.

But you brought up something that I had never thought of (but I also didn't think I was bashing Tubby before), on Tuesday I'm going to see how many of our kids know where Tubby is coaching right now. I will bet it will be less than half. And again this is a program that plays in at least one top tournament every year this year it's City of Palms. They don't just read about these coaches, they see them in the stands in season and AAU. I don't think Tubby is as present in the kids minds as you think, and I also don't think it matters to a Gopher fan if high school kids from another part of the country know anything about Tubby but know I'm curious.

Again just for the record: Loved Tubby every time I spoke with him, more than one of his notes given on pressing of all thing, are present in my playbook (not a head coach atm), Tubby knows basketball, I bought and watch Minnesota Basketball the Journey every year at some point, If I can have the coaching career Tubby's had I would take it without question, and this is way coaches laugh at me when I tell them I read message boards.
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Howie was correct. You were speaking nonsense. A kid bound to a Big Ten school and he doesn't know of the teams in said conference? I do not believe that for one second. Not only were we a top ten team at one point last year......but we also made the tournament and won a game. Unless he is a baseball fan and doesn't care much for basketball (despite being a basketball player) he would have no problem with this.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Anyway, on Perkins. Have always said didn't think he'd be a good fit at Minnesota. Very good basketball player, though... but there are better fits for the Gopher program.
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Like who? Perkins was the next-to-last option for an elite PG.
 

afurry91 said:
Hopefully Josh is okay with underachieving in the tournament.
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Huh?

Would be very interested in hearing your definition of "underachieving".

Gonzaga has now played in 15 consecutive NCAA tourneys ..... a streak exceeded only six times in NCAA history (including UNC under Dean Smith, Indiana under Bobby Knight and Kentucky under Rick Pitino/Tubby Smith*). During those 15 dances Gonzaga has been "one and done" three times and "underperformed" to their seed five times (Gonzaga's "average" seed has been 7.31). They've exceeded or played to their seed ten times during the current streak including their 5 Sweet 16's (or beyond).

This is despite Gonzaga never, ever having a Scout.com/ESPN.com Top 25 recruiting class. Ever.

Sure they've had some games they'd LOVE to have back ..... who hasn't?

Edited to add: I used to post at gopherhole.com ..... must be a new system as I had to "re-register". Of course, that was in the summer of '99 when Munse headed your way (and periodic postings after that)
 


GophersInIowa said:
You sure about that? I'm not sure if they've ever had a McDonald's All American. Adam Morrison wasn't.

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college
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No McDonald's All Americans out of high school Micah Downs was a transfer from Kansas and this season Kyle Wiltjer will be going through the "Olynyk Clinic" as he redshirts after transferring from Kentucky. Zags have done okay with transfers .... Dan Dickau from Washington turned into a Bill Walton double/double player at Gonzaga -- First Team Top 5 AP All American and First Team Top 5 Academic All American. Kelly Olynyk was Gonzaga's 2nd double/double under Few. Of course Walton did it three times.

BTW this reminds me of a Dan Monson line (said during his 2 years as GU h.c.) ..... "We're playing against schools with McDonald's All Americans. Our kids are from towns so small they don't even have a McDonalds".
 


GoZags said:
No McDonald's All Americans out of high school Micah Downs was a transfer from Kansas and this season Kyle Wiltjer will be going through the "Olynyk Clinic" as he redshirts after transferring from Kentucky. Zags have done okay with transfers .... Dan Dickau from Washington turned into a Bill Walton double/double player at Gonzaga -- First Team Top 5 AP All American and First Team Top 5 Academic All American. Kelly Olynyk was Gonzaga's 2nd double/double under Few. Of course Walton did it three times.

BTW this reminds me of a Dan Monson line (said during his 2 years as GU h.c.) ..... "We're playing against schools with McDonald's All Americans. Our kids are from towns so small they don't even have a McDonalds".
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Welcome college basketball fan!! I assume you are not a football fan. I have nothing against the Zags. In fact......I normally am cheering for them. Good luck this season.......unless we meet up in the tournament.......
 

GoZags said:
BTW this reminds me of a Dan Monson line (said during his 2 years as GU h.c.) ..... "We're playing against schools with McDonald's All Americans. Our kids are from towns so small they don't even have a McDonalds".
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You can have him back. Sorry we stole him. He's good at cranking out kids though.
 



stocker08 said:
Welcome college basketball fan!! I assume you are not a football fan. I have nothing against the Zags. In fact......I normally am cheering for them. Good luck this season.......unless we meet up in the tournament.......
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The Zags have been undefeated in Football since 1941. As one of my Gonzaga friends always says, "We had to end the program because so many of our brave men didn't return from World War II."
 

GoZags said:
Huh?

Would be very interested in hearing your definition of "underachieving".

Gonzaga has now played in 15 consecutive NCAA tourneys ..... a streak exceeded only six times in NCAA history (including UNC under Dean Smith, Indiana under Bobby Knight and Kentucky under Rick Pitino/Tubby Smith*). During those 15 dances Gonzaga has been "one and done" three times and "underperformed" to their seed five times (Gonzaga's "average" seed has been 7.31). They've exceeded or played to their seed ten times during the current streak including their 5 Sweet 16's (or beyond).

This is despite Gonzaga never, ever having a Scout.com/ESPN.com Top 25 recruiting class. Ever.

Sure they've had some games they'd LOVE to have back ..... who hasn't?

Edited to add: I used to post at gopherhole.com ..... must be a new system as I had to "re-register". Of course, that was in the summer of '99 when Munse headed your way (and periodic postings after that)
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If you've been to 15 straight NCAA tournaments and have never advanced past the sweet 16. I would say that is underachievement.

10-10 tournament record in the last 10 years is an underachievement.

Losing in the 2nd round last year is an underachievement.

Having the prestige the Zags have given the conference they play in is really a sick joke. They don't have the tournament wins to have earned that prestige. On the other hand, a mid major like Butler certainly does.

Getting a 1 seed with a 1-2 record against ranked teams last year, not beating anyone in the top 20, was another sick joke. The Gophers were 5-5 as a comparison.
 

afurry91 said:
If you've been to 15 straight NCAA tournaments and have never advanced past the sweet 16. I would say that is underachievement.

10-10 tournament record in the last 10 years is an underachievement.

Losing in the 2nd round last year is an underachievement.

Having the prestige the Zags have given the conference they play in is really a sick joke. They don't have the tournament wins to have earned that prestige. On the other hand, a mid major like Butler certainly does.

Getting a 1 seed with a 1-2 record against ranked teams last year, not beating anyone in the top 20, was another sick joke. The Gophers were 5-5 as a comparison.
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I don't know. I always thought that when Gonzaga was 33 seconds and a possession away from the Final Four in the Regional Final game against eventual National Champion UConn that they HAD advanced past the Sweet 16. Of course I must be wrong and you must be right....... or maybe you were unaware of UConn's toughest NCAA tourney game the year they won their 1st NT. Perhaps you're also unaware that the NCAA Selection Committee doesn't utilize performance against the Top 20 (Polls) when determining bids. You should be aware that one of their tools is RPI. The Gophers were a respectable 11-9 vs the Top 100 RPI last year. The Zags OTOH were 13-2. Here's another tidbit for you .... Out of 346 schools that play D1 hoops only two schools (Kansas and Gonzaga) have been to the dance and advanced to the Round of 32 (or beyond) each year over the course of last half decade. That's a grand total of 2 schools (including Gonzaga) .... out of 346.... that got to the dance and won at least one game from '09 - '13. And you're dumping on the Zags? Perhaps you missed that Gonzaga's average seed has been 7.31. BTW, Wichita State was pretty good (unless you also think Ohio State is chump change).

Sure .... Gonzaga hasn't been to a Final Four. Yet. They've also never had a Top 25 recruiting class. Yet. They've never had a recruit in the Top 25, until this year.

BTW, I'll take Gonzaga's 10 wins in the dance over the last decade. I'm sure a lot of schools would.
And speaking of success (or lack thereof) it was nice to see this list from The Sporting News: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...basketball-teams-without-sweet-16-since-2000/
 

GoZags said:
I don't know. I always thought that when Gonzaga was 33 seconds and a possession away from the Final Four in the Regional Final game against eventual National Champion UConn that they HAD advanced past the Sweet 16. Of course I must be wrong and you must be right....... or maybe you were unaware of UConn's toughest NCAA tourney game the year they won their 1st NT. Perhaps you're also unaware that the NCAA Selection Committee doesn't utilize performance against the Top 20 (Polls) when determining bids. You should be aware that one of their tools is RPI. The Gophers were a respectable 11-9 vs the Top 100 RPI last year. The Zags OTOH were 13-2. Here's another tidbit for you .... Out of 346 schools that play D1 hoops only two schools (Kansas and Gonzaga) have been to the dance and advanced to the Round of 32 (or beyond) each year over the course of last half decade. That's a grand total of 2 schools (including Gonzaga) .... out of 346.... that got to the dance and won at least one game from '09 - '13. And you're dumping on the Zags? Perhaps you missed that Gonzaga's average seed has been 7.31. BTW, Wichita State was pretty good (unless you also think Ohio State is chump change).

Sure .... Gonzaga hasn't been to a Final Four. Yet. They've also never had a Top 25 recruiting class. Yet. They've never had a recruit in the Top 25, until this year.

BTW, I'll take Gonzaga's 10 wins in the dance over the last decade. I'm sure a lot of schools would.
And speaking of success (or lack thereof) it was nice to see this list from The Sporting News: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...basketball-teams-without-sweet-16-since-2000/
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Last year Gonzaga played a very weak schedule. Only decent teams were Illinois and Butler. The Zags went 1-2 vs. any ranked teams. Sure you won a lot of games playing no one of substance. Play in the big ten and you would be nothing.
 



XMan said:
Last year Gonzaga played a very weak schedule. Only decent teams were Illinois and Butler. The Zags went 1-2 vs. any ranked teams. Sure you won a lot of games playing no one of substance. Play in the big ten and you would be nothing.
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Not sure what your post has to do with the topic that was being discussed ... i.e. the Zags' underachievement in the tournament., but I'll bite.

Sure Gonzaga's SOS of 74 last year (out of the 346 schools that play D1 hoops) wasn't as strong as many. That's a fact.

As for your ascertation that they'd be "nothing" if they played in the Big Can't Count past 10 I'd say the numbers that factor in SOS (i.e. Sagarin, KenPom, RPI, etc) would lead one to believe they'd typically finish in the upper 3rd..... and would rarely fall into the lower half. But those are just numbers. If the Zags played in the Big Can't Count to 12 perhaps their recruiting would be a little better ..... perhaps they'd play at least half of their tough games on their home court ....perhaps they'd be able to schedule cupcakes instead of loading up on BCS schools in road or neutral site games in OOC.

But unless an invitation is forthcoming, this is nothing more than meaningless chatter ..... Gonzaga isn't in the Pac 12 .... isn't in the Big 12, isn't in your conference. They do the best they can when it comes to scheduling. Last year's schedule included Kansas State*, Clemson, Washington State, Oklahoma State*, Oklahoma*, West Virginia, Illinois and Baylor* from the power conferences and went 7-1. *My guess is those schools would have considered themselves "decent" last year.

Edited to add: I'd linked above a feature from Sporting News -- 27 major college hoops programs who hadn't been to the Sweet 16 since '00. Here's the list of the 27 schools with the most Sweet 16 appearances during Gonzaga's 15 consecutive years in the dance (dating to '99). Could that list be true? Only 3 schools from the vaunted Big 10 have advanced to the Sweet 16 more often than the Zags since '99? Is that because your conference members "beat each other up" in league play and have nothing left for March? Did the Zags play "no one of substance" to make it on this list?

Sweet 16 appearances in last 15 years (since 1999 -- or when Gonzaga's current NCAA tourney streak began):

1. Duke 12
2. Michigan St 10
2. Kansas 10
4. Kentucky 8
5. Syracuse 7
5. UCONN 7
5. Arizona 7
5. Florida 7
5. North Carolina 7
10. UCLA 6
10. Ohio St 6
10. Wisconsin 6
13. Gonzaga 5
13. Pittsburgh 5
13. Louisville 5
13. Texas 5
13. Xavier 5
18. West Virginia 4
18. Illinois 4
18. Maryland 4
18. Memphis 4
18. Butler 4
18. Marquette 4
18. Villanova 4
18. Tennessee 4
18. Purdue 4
27. Georgetown 3
27. Washington 3
 

As a fan of both GU and Minnesota as well as Gonzaga alum, I don't want to argue what school is better since they're my two favorite teams but I think some of the "facts" stated about Gonzaga are inaccurate. I'm not saying Gonzaga played a fantastic schedule last year and the Gophers schedule was clearly stronger (it was one of the strongest in the country) and I realize they did in large part move to #1 in the rankings by default because teams above them in more competitive conferences kept losing, but they did have a talented team and will again for the next several seasons.

To say that Gonzaga played only 2 decent teams in Illinois and Butler is inaccurate because they also beat tournament teams in Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Davidson, Saint Mary's (3 times) as well as a solid teams like Baylor (NIT Champs) and BYU. I'm hoping for a run by both teams to the championship game of the Maui Invitational this year...It would be a heck of a back court match-up between Andre Hollins, Austin Hollins and Malik Smith vs Kevin Pangos, Gary Bell Jr., Gerard Coleman (Providence transfer 14PPG scorer in Big East) and David Stockton.
 


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