UPDATED (10/19) Amelia reports no jail time for Trevor; 2 more yrs probation

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Radio Badger said:
You're absolutely correct, and on top of that, who gives a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#? The Badgers are coming off the best five-year run in their program's history. You know who the biggest impact NBA guys have been during that run? Greg Stiemsma and Jon Leuer. That's it, and it doesn't really matter. You can be a very successful college program without churning out NBA guys every year.

Hell, even Michigan State isn't an NBA factory, and they've been about as good as it gets over the last few years.

I'm not even necessarily defending Tubby. To be honest, he seems to lack a bit of fire right now, especially on the recruiting trail, but to get upset at him over something as stupid as lack of NBA production is wrong.
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Indeed one can be successful without churning out NBA players. That being said, show me Tubby's success rate at the U! What is the highest that any of his teams has landed in the B1G standings? How many NCAA tournament wins does he have at the U? We are looking at a coach who has been an abysmal failure in producing both players and successful seasons.

As for Mbakwe...if he broke the rules of his probation then he pays the consequences. As to what happened in July, Mbakwe should talk with the media if they need more information. Asking Tubby to answer those questions is irrelevant. I have no problem with Tubby deferring the issue to someone else. At the same time, Tubby just needs to tell the truth and then go back to work.
 

tinyarch said:
show me Tubby's success rate at the U! What is the highest that any of his teams has landed in the B1G standings? How many NCAA tournament wins does he have at the U? We are looking at a coach who has been an abysmal failure in producing both players and successful seasons.
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Why, oh why, couldn't somebody keep Tubby from using his crowbar on his own players?
 

Dpo there is an old saying around here. Stop feeding the trolls and they will go away. It might be time with teeny tiny.
 

bigticket1 said:
What Mbakwe did was stupid,but lets be realistic. How many people that post here can honestly say that they have never gotten behind the wheel while under the influence at some point after they turned 23 when they were on probation as a result of a pre-trial agreement in a sexual assault case and were on scholarship at a major college basketball program with a legit chance to make millions playing in the NBA? That doesn't justify what he did,but let those who are without sin cast the first stone.
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FIFY
 

Tubby's best finish in the Big 10 was 6th. Did this twice. Other 3 years were 7th, 9th, and 9th.

Extension worthy? Nope.
 


tinyarch said:
Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated from the U. Granted that part of this was he was forced to play out of his natural position because of Al Nolen being lost and there being no point guard to replace Al. However, Blake was exposed due to failings of Tubby.
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I just want to get a couple things straight. Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated? His senior year, he averaged 13.1 PPG and 4.1 APG (at a 2:1 assist:TO ratio), both easily career highs (previous highs were 10.0 PPG and 1.8 APG, both in his junior year). He also pulled down 3.5 RPG that year, the same as the year before. And he was a shell of himself? Give me a break.

Also, Rodney's improvement last year was solely due to his position change, with no credit to Tubby, but you put most of Blake's struggles on Tubby, rather than his position change? So a player plays out of position and succeeds--no credit to Tubby. A player plays out of position and struggles? Mostly Tubby's fault. Am I getting this right?
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
I just want to get a couple things straight. Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated? His senior year, he averaged 13.1 PPG and 4.1 APG (at a 2:1 assist:TO ratio), both easily career highs (previous highs were 10.0 PPG and 1.8 APG, both in his junior year). He also pulled down 3.5 RPG that year, the same as the year before. And he was a shell of himself? Give me a break.

Also, Rodney's improvement last year was solely due to his position change, with no credit to Tubby, but you put most of Blake's struggles on Tubby, rather than his position change? So a player plays out of position and succeeds--no credit to Tubby. A player plays out of position and struggles? Mostly Tubby's fault. Am I getting this right?
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+ about a billion

seriously this guy isn't even really worth responding to at this point. Either he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about or he's just trolling hardcore. Either way he isn't worth the key strokes.
 

SonOfTheVarsity said:
I just want to get a couple things straight. Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated? His senior year, he averaged 13.1 PPG and 4.1 APG (at a 2:1 assist:TO ratio), both easily career highs (previous highs were 10.0 PPG and 1.8 APG, both in his junior year). He also pulled down 3.5 RPG that year, the same as the year before. And he was a shell of himself? Give me a break.

Also, Rodney's improvement last year was solely due to his position change, with no credit to Tubby, but you put most of Blake's struggles on Tubby, rather than his position change? So a player plays out of position and succeeds--no credit to Tubby. A player plays out of position and struggles? Mostly Tubby's fault. Am I getting this right?
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Rodney only succeeded in a position that he will never play in the NBA. He'll never be a strong forward. He is a below average small forward and certainly has no chance at the 2 guard. Tubby doesn't get credit for Williams playing in Mbakwe's spot simply because the better player got hurt. Williams is a great athlete. Where does Tubby get the credit for Williams athleticism?

Blake played out of position and had a ton of turnovers, that is on Blake. He also couldn't get the offense going, which is of little fault of his own since Tubby has very little semblance of an offense in the first place. However, with Blake at the point there could have been a slew of set plays called that allowed Blake to come off a series of different picks to catch and shoot, but Tubby seldom if ever ran any plays for Blake. Once again, this is a coaches fault, not the players. With Blake playing under Tubby Smith, Blake was a shell of what he could have been under a coach who knew how to draw up plays for him. I would have loved to see what a guy like Bobby Knight would have drawn up for Blake. He would have gone off in his senior year.

Once again, I'm not trashing Blake. I'm telling you that Tubby is a really bad offensive coach.
 

tinyarch said:
Blah, blah, blah - Tubby sucks [quote could have come from 50% of your posts]
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What did Tubby do to Michigan that pissed you off so much?

We get it, you hate Tubby. But don't try to frame it around a BS argument.
 



Dr.Don said:
To quote Go4Broke in another thread:

Go4Broke
Go4Broke is online now Senior Member

" You are going to need a helluva lot more than 64 (in this case 3) posts for most GopherHolers to pay attention to anything you have to say. Your best course of action is to take a seat in the back of the room and keep your mouth shut until you know what you are talking about."

:)
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stop already, nobody nominated you as internet police. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
 

bigticket1 said:
What Mbakwe did was stupid,but lets be realistic. How many people that post here can honestly say that they have never gotten behind the wheel while under the influence at some point after they turned 23 ? That doesn't justify what he did,but let those who are without sin cast the first stone.
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Probably too many, but how many of them were in a position to be sent to jail due to prior circumstances?
 


jamalo said:
stop already, nobody nominated you as internet police. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
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jamalo or tinyarch, or whatever name you choose to use, did you not notice the :) indicating sarcasm? Of course not.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Why, oh why, couldn't somebody keep Tubby from using his crowbar on his own players?
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Injuries happen. You've got to find a way to get it done. This is sports. Plenty of teams have won tournament games with injuries to key players during the time that Tubby has been at the U.
 



Unregistered User said:
What did Tubby do to Michigan that pissed you off so much?

We get it, you hate Tubby. But don't try to frame it around a BS argument.
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Not sure how Michigan comes into this.

I don't even hate Tubby. I just think he's a really bad offensive coach. I'd take his defense any day.

What I have come to observe is that the fans at Kentucky were absolutely correct in their assessment of Tubby as a coach. Great guy, but he can't win a championship with the kids he recruits or the offense he runs. His one championship came with Rick Pitino's players.

I'm glad I've got my point across about Tubby and his offensive liabilities. You'll have many more opportunities throughout the season to hear me make that point.

That being said, I'd love to see the Gophers do very well and finish in the top 3 of the B1G. I'm just very skeptical that Tubby can accomplish that goal.
 



tinyarch said:
Not sure how Michigan comes into this.
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Sure you do. [source: I'm brilliant]


tinyarch said:
I'm glad I've got my point across about Tubby and his offensive liabilities. You'll have many more opportunities throughout the season to hear me make that point.
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Nice to see that you will take every opportunity to impugn Tubby, no matter how the season plays out. Love to see that kind of open mindedness.
 

tinyarch said:
You'll have many more opportunities throughout the season to hear me make that point.
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Whew! I was getting worried for a bit there, that we wouldn't get to enjoy your particular brand of analysis throughout the season. I hope we also haven't seen the last of your hilarious Big Lebowski posts! They get funnier each time!
 

You should lose posting privileges after this.

tinyarch said:
You just solidify my point with each of the players listed above. None of the above players were dramatically better by the time they made it to their last season with the Gophers. In each case you see a player that ends up losing confidence by the end. I will concede this: At least Damian Johnson didn't get worse.

As for Paul Carter (left early), Al Nolen (academic ineligible and broken down), Blake Hoffarber (half the player he was by the end of his career), Abu Shamala (better his Jr. season than his Senior year).

There is not one player that has dramatically improved their basketball skills and become a phenomenal player under Tubby's tutelage. In fact, on offense, we see regression in many players that Tubby has coached. I'm not a big fan of Tubby on the offensive end of the court. He's proven to be a really poor coach in the half-court. He relies on defense creating transition points, but he couldn't design a play to get himself out of a wet paper bag if it requires running it out of a half-court set.
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GW, if you're still around here... any input on the likelihood of Mbakwe actually facing jail time?

That and now Klove?
 


I am not a huge Tubby fan/apologist but players get better when they work hard to get better. The coaching staff can only do so much, the individual player has to put in the effort. Now the coach may be responsible for creating an environment that pushes the player to want it more, but that may be a whole different argument. Several players have not improved or flourished under Tubby's regime. But I don't see one reason for all the players. Devron Bostick came in as the JUCO player of the year and halfway thru his first year he was afraid to shoot because he was going to get pulled out of the game. Ralph Sampson lost his confidence, Colton Iverson was less effective every year but I think that was alot due to the BigTen officials, etc

I felt Damion Johnson improved alot, Al Nolen got much better even without being able to finish on a drive, Blake's offense was not hampered by coaching but more by being the main scoring threat most of the time (Jon Diebler from Ohio State was never any defenses focus to stop him, he was more of a 3rd or 4th option who always seemed to be open.)

Trevor and Rodney's improvement may have come from getting invited to the Lebron James camps and Trevor playing for Team USA.

Putting individual player's improvements (or lack therof) solely on the coach is giving the coach too much credit and not enough to the individual player.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I think so too since he knows very little about the Gophers. If anybody denies the development of at least Blake, Al, and Damian, he or she knows nothing about the Gophers.

Go Gophers
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It's always nice to know the Gopher Hole Gestapo are on the job! :rolleyes:
 


Minnesconsin fan said:
I am not a huge Tubby fan/apologist but players get better when they work hard to get better. The coaching staff can only do so much, the individual player has to put in the effort. Now the coach may be responsible for creating an environment that pushes the player to want it more, but that may be a whole different argument. Several players have not improved or flourished under Tubby's regime. But I don't see one reason for all the players. Devron Bostick came in as the JUCO player of the year and halfway thru his first year he was afraid to shoot because he was going to get pulled out of the game. Ralph Sampson lost his confidence, Colton Iverson was less effective every year but I think that was alot due to the BigTen officials, etc

I felt Damion Johnson improved alot, Al Nolen got much better even without being able to finish on a drive, Blake's offense was not hampered by coaching but more by being the main scoring threat most of the time (Jon Diebler from Ohio State was never any defenses focus to stop him, he was more of a 3rd or 4th option who always seemed to be open.)

Trevor and Rodney's improvement may have come from getting invited to the Lebron James camps and Trevor playing for Team USA.
Putting individual player's improvements (or lack therof) solely on the coach is giving the coach too much credit and not enough to the individual player.
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A well reasoned argument. I can accept this viewpoint.

I did not say that there was no improvement in players over their four years. But, I contend that we haven't seen any player show remarkable improvement under Tubby. We haven't seen an average player grow into an NBA prospect through Tubby's tutelage.

My frustration in Tubby's offense is that too often, especially in the last 5 minutes of a game, you find 5 players standing and the ball being held by one person until the shot clock is down to less than 5 seconds left. That forces a bad shot, which leads to the opposition coming back down and scoring. It's been a consistent thread throughout Tubby's tenure and it was a glaring factor all of last season. Interestingly, it is that same issue which led to Kentucky fans clamoring for Tubby to be gone. Tubby has set a long precedence in this area that extends back beyond the U.

I do think you make good points that are well reasoned, however. I just wish the Gopher Hole Gestapo were as well reasoned in their responses.
 


Haha, appreciate it. The only thing is that I can't ask him questions that way without a Twitter, and I'm not about to get one.

His condescending tone and denial of fallibility are certainly irritating, but he certainly knows college bball more than almost anyone on here, including myself. There are definitely some big things he's been wrong about that people like to constantly point to, but more than not he's right and has more of an inside scoop than others. I'm fairly confident that even some people who want GW banned from here still check his Twitter, although I'm sure they'd never admit it. I don't care about the timing or intent of his news as much as others, I just want to know what's going on.

I agree with him that this Mbakwe stuff isn't being talked about enough. I'm getting pretty nervous, especially if he did have something else related to an assault last year, although I don't really understand how that wasn't a bigger deal and didn't leak to the media. I also don't understand how Tubby either doesn't really know what's going on or does and is claiming he doesn't. Either way, it's embarrassing on his part.

9194Gophs said:
Let's hope he's off of here. But I'm sure he has still been posting just not as GopherWarrior. You can get all the JB you can handle on his lame site. Enjoy.

https://twitter.com/JBBauer612 - http://latenighthoops.com/mbakwe-may-face-additional-punishment-in-miami-felony-case/
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