UPDATED (10/19) Amelia reports no jail time for Trevor; 2 more yrs probation

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tinyarch said:
Name one person that Tubby has coached at Minnesota that has remarkably improved from that person's freshman year to his senior year.
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Rodney Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Justin Cobbs
Devoe Joseph
Damian Johnson
Julian Welch
 

Paul Carter
Al Nolen
Blake Hoffarber
Jamal Abu Shamala
 

dpodoll68 said:
Rodney Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Justin Cobbs
Devoe Joseph
Damian Johnson
Julian Welch
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Alright you can take Julian Welch off that list. That's a little aggressive. He was expected to start for us, and by the time the season come to a close he had averaged 5.8ppg in the NIT tournament and was untrustworthy with the ball.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Rodney Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Justin Cobbs
Devoe Joseph
Damian Johnson
Julian Welch
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You just solidify my point with each of the players listed above. None of the above players were dramatically better by the time they made it to their last season with the Gophers. In each case you see a player that ends up losing confidence by the end. I will concede this: At least Damian Johnson didn't get worse.

As for Paul Carter (left early), Al Nolen (academic ineligible and broken down), Blake Hoffarber (half the player he was by the end of his career), Abu Shamala (better his Jr. season than his Senior year).

There is not one player that has dramatically improved their basketball skills and become a phenomenal player under Tubby's tutelage. In fact, on offense, we see regression in many players that Tubby has coached. I'm not a big fan of Tubby on the offensive end of the court. He's proven to be a really poor coach in the half-court. He relies on defense creating transition points, but he couldn't design a play to get himself out of a wet paper bag if it requires running it out of a half-court set.
 


tinyarch said:
You just solidify my point with each of the players listed above. None of the above players were dramatically better by the time they made it to their last season with the Gophers. In each case you see a player that ends up losing confidence by the end. I will concede this: At least Damian Johnson didn't get worse.

As for Paul Carter (left early), Al Nolen (academic ineligible and broken down), Blake Hoffarber (half the player he was by the end of his career), Abu Shamala (better his Jr. season than his Senior year).

There is not one player that has dramatically improved their basketball skills and become a phenomenal player under Tubby's tutelage. In fact, on offense, we see regression in many players that Tubby has coached. I'm not a big fan of Tubby on the offensive end of the court. He's proven to be a really poor coach in the half-court. He relies on defense creating transition points, but he couldn't design a play to get himself out of a wet paper bag if it requires running it out of a half-court set.
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If you honestly think Blake Hoffarber was half the player he was by the end of his career you are absolutely delusional. He improved a TON byt the end of his career. This may have been 100% due to Blake himself and nothing to do with Tubby, I have no idea, but the statement you made is absolutely ridiculous and I can't read anything else you have to say because of it.
 

tinyarch said:
You just solidify my point with each of the players listed above. None of the above players were dramatically better by the time they made it to their last season with the Gophers. In each case you see a player that ends up losing confidence by the end. I will concede this: At least Damian Johnson didn't get worse.

As for Paul Carter (left early), Al Nolen (academic ineligible and broken down), Blake Hoffarber (half the player he was by the end of his career), Abu Shamala (better his Jr. season than his Senior year).

There is not one player that has dramatically improved their basketball skills and become a phenomenal player under Tubby's tutelage. In fact, on offense, we see regression in many players that Tubby has coached. I'm not a big fan of Tubby on the offensive end of the court. He's proven to be a really poor coach in the half-court. He relies on defense creating transition points, but he couldn't design a play to get himself out of a wet paper bag if it requires running it out of a half-court set.
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You are just plain flat-out wrong, and laughably so, with your entire post. Sorry.
 

ColNathanJessup said:
If you honestly think Blake Hoffarber was half the player he was by the end of his career you are absolutely delusional. He improved a TON byt the end of his career. This may have been 100% due to Blake himself and nothing to do with Tubby, I have no idea, but the statement you made is absolutely ridiculous and I can't read anything else you have to say because of it.
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+1

also to say that Damien Johnson only didn't get any worse is ridiculous, he was one of the best defensive wings in the country by the time his career was over. Blaming Tubby for Nolen getting hurt and Carter's sister getting cancer also shows how delusional this tinyarch is.
 

dpodoll68 said:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/minnesota/julian-welch

Much better as a junior than as a freshman. Presumably will continue to improve and be better still as a senior. Point stands.
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There's no doubt he's improved from his freshman year, but from his sophomore year to the year he had just had with Tubby. I can't say that tubby coached him up at all. If anything he maintained, but he definitely didn't reach expectations. The jury is still out, he has another year to show what he has.
 





scools12 said:
Given Tubby credit for Welch's improvement from a freshman is quite the stretch seeing how Welch didn't play for Tubby until his junior year.
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I was hoping someone would say this haha read how the original point/question is worded again and you'll see what information DP is providing.
 




scher215 said:
I was hoping someone would say this haha read how the original point/question is worded again and you'll see what information DP is providing.
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every one knows what the question was implying.
 


ColNathanJessup said:
If you honestly think Blake Hoffarber was half the player he was by the end of his career you are absolutely delusional. He improved a TON byt the end of his career. This may have been 100% due to Blake himself and nothing to do with Tubby, I have no idea, but the statement you made is absolutely ridiculous and I can't read anything else you have to say because of it.
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I note that you are prone to hyperbole.

Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated from the U. Granted that part of this was he was forced to play out of his natural position because of Al Nolen being lost and there being no point guard to replace Al. However, Blake was exposed due to failings of Tubby.

Please note that I am NOT saying anything bad about the players. I am fully putting the blame on Tubby Smith. He has failed to provide any semblance of an offensive system that can improve a players offensive capability. He utterly failed to develop plays for Blake that would get him the open looks he needed. Do you remember how Bobby Knight designed his entire offense around Steve Alford and won a national championship because of it? Hoffarber had the capability to be like Alford and yet Tubby couldn't design even one play to get Hoffarber the looks he needed on offense. Stop missing the forest for the trees. Tubby has been a huge flop on the offensive end of the court. That's my point. If you can't read that, then fine, go on and stick your head in the sand.
 

tinyarch said:
I note that you are prone to hyperbole.

Blake was a shell of himself by the time he graduated from the U. Granted that part of this was he was forced to play out of his natural position because of Al Nolen being lost and there being no point guard to replace Al. However, Blake was exposed due to failings of Tubby.

Please note that I am NOT saying anything bad about the players. I am fully putting the blame on Tubby Smith. He has failed to provide any semblance of an offensive system that can improve a players offensive capability. He utterly failed to develop plays for Blake that would get him the open looks he needed. Do you remember how Bobby Knight designed his entire offense around Steve Alford and won a national championship because of it? Hoffarber had the capability to be like Alford and yet Tubby couldn't design even one play to get Hoffarber the looks he needed on offense. Stop missing the forest for the trees. Tubby has been a huge flop on the offensive end of the court. That's my point. If you can't read that, then fine, go on and stick your head in the sand.
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ID exposed...the ultimate anti-Tubby, jamalo.
 


tinyarch said:
Tubby has been a huge flop on the offensive end of the court. That's my point.
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So then why didn't you just say that? It's at least a defensible point. Saying there are zero Tubby Smith players at Minnesota who've gotten remarkably better from their freshman to senior years is indefensible and idiotic.
 

dpodoll68 said:
So then why didn't you just say that? It's at least a defensible point. Saying there are zero Tubby Smith players at Minnesota who've gotten remarkably better from their freshman to senior years is indefensible and idiotic.
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Fine. I'll add that any offensive improvement by players is purely by their own maturity, not by being coached up.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Evidence?
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Go ahead and provide evidence of Tubby's offensive coaching skills. Point out specific post moves, wing moves or point moves that any of Tubby's players have developed under his tutelage. I've been waiting for over 5 years to see the improvement in individual players. Point them out and I'll give you the cudo's you deserve.

As for me, the evidence is in the past 5 years of poor offensive execution in the half-court by all of Tubby's teams. Is there even one player that has gone on to play a relevant role in the NBA over the past 5 years? Anyone? What more evidence is needed?
 

New Amelia blog: Mbakwe faces probation violation hearing Friday where 'anything could happen'

From her blog:

Trevor Mbakwe will be in court again on Friday, and there is a realistic chance the Minnesota forward could go to jail.

Addressing his situation on Friday, coach Tubby Smith seemed unaware of Mbakwe missing practices to travel to Miami, and oblivious to the activity in Miami altogether, telling one reporter, “Maybe you more than I know. I don’t know.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/174624191.html

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
New Amelia blog: Mbakwe faces probation violation hearing Friday where 'anything could happen'

From her blog:

Trevor Mbakwe will be in court again on Friday, and there is a realistic chance the Minnesota forward could go to jail.

Addressing his situation on Friday, coach Tubby Smith seemed unaware of Mbakwe missing practices to travel to Miami, and oblivious to the activity in Miami altogether, telling one reporter, “Maybe you more than I know. I don’t know.”
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/174624191.html

Go Gophers!!
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Are you kidding me??????

Who is running the program ??? If tubby doesnt know that tm is missing practices, count me as concerned for him personally.

If he does know the details and isnt being honest, that is another matter.

Wow.
 

tinyarch said:
Go ahead and provide evidence of Tubby's offensive coaching skills. Point out specific post moves, wing moves or point moves that any of Tubby's players have developed under his tutelage.
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That's not how this works. You don't get to claim something and then ask for proof of its opposite. You can't say "Wilt Chamberlain had sex with 20,000 women" and then say "prove to me that he didn't". You show me, empirically, how any offensive improvement is due solely to the player's initiative or STFU.

tinyarch said:
I've been waiting for over 5 years to see the improvement in individual players. Point them out and I'll give you the cudo's you deserve.
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Among several others, if you can't look at Rodney Williams and see the vast improvement in his game since he was a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.

tinyarch said:
Is there even one player that has gone on to play a relevant role in the NBA over the past 5 years? Anyone? What more evidence is needed?
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Exhibit A of why the Minnesota fanbase hates Tubby. Unfulfilled expectations that were asinine to begin with. NO ONE is coming to Minnesota and turning it into an NBA player factory. NO ONE. The sooner you come to grips with that, the better off you'll be.

This also has almost nothing to do with Tubby's supposed inability to develop players offensively. If you develop a player from marginal scholarship caliber to solid starter caliber, and he still is nowhere near an NBA player, that doesn't mean he didn't improve. Way to stay on your own asinine topic.
 

Tubby does have some WTF moments with the media, he obviously does not care what the media thinks about him. But even if he didn't know Mbakwe's status, you don't admit that. I'm guessing he knew about it, but his intent is to keep quiet on the whole matter.
 

Whatever way it turns out, my main hope is that this is resolved before the season starts. Without Mbawke I think we still are going to be a very solid team. Would we be better with him. Yes, probably but that's not a sure thing. Who knows if the knee is okay or how his return would affect some of the other players like Williams? What this teams and we fans absolutely don't need is something happening in the middle of the season where they would lose him or this thing becoming a lingering issue that becomes a major distraction. (At least canceling North Carolina in football has kept the media jackasses distracted from this.)
 

dpodoll68 said:
Exhibit A of why the Minnesota fanbase hates Tubby. Unfulfilled expectations that were asinine to begin with. NO ONE is coming to Minnesota and turning it into an NBA player factory. NO ONE. The sooner you come to grips with that, the better off you'll be.
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You're absolutely correct, and on top of that, who gives a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#? The Badgers are coming off the best five-year run in their program's history. You know who the biggest impact NBA guys have been during that run? Greg Stiemsma and Jon Leuer. That's it, and it doesn't really matter. You can be a very successful college program without churning out NBA guys every year.

Hell, even Michigan State isn't an NBA factory, and they've been about as good as it gets over the last few years.

I'm not even necessarily defending Tubby. To be honest, he seems to lack a bit of fire right now, especially on the recruiting trail, but to get upset at him over something as stupid as lack of NBA production is wrong.
 

Gold Vision said:
Tubby does have some WTF moments with the media, he obviously does not care what the media thinks about him. But even if he didn't know Mbakwe's status, you don't admit that. I'm guessing he knew about it, but his intent is to keep quiet on the whole matter.
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This. I'm sure he just really doesn't want to talk about it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Among several others, if you can't look at Rodney Williams and see the vast improvement in his game since he was a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.

Exhibit A of why the Minnesota fanbase hates Tubby. Unfulfilled expectations that were asinine to begin with. NO ONE is coming to Minnesota and turning it into an NBA player factory. NO ONE. The sooner you come to grips with that, the better off you'll be.

This also has almost nothing to do with Tubby's supposed inability to develop players offensively. If you develop a player from marginal scholarship caliber to solid starter caliber, and he still is nowhere near an NBA player, that doesn't mean he didn't improve. Way to stay on your own asinine topic.
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What areas of improvement do you see in Rodney?

1) He still gets thrown around in the paint.
2) He is a terrible 3 point shooter.
3) His mid-range jumper is average to below average.

Rodney's improvement was solely because Mbakwe wasn't playing the 4 position, not because Williams became remarkably better. Williams as continually relied upon his athleticism, not his ball skills. If you are going to hang your argument on Williams then you have already conceded the argument.

Second, Every coach, going back to Bill Musselman, can point to NBA players coming out of the U of MN and having, at minimum, relative success in the NBA. Tubby has...let's count...ZERO in over 5 years as a coach. ZERO. Even Monson has a better track record for getting NBA players to attend the U. Now...should we evaluate NCAA tournament wins...?

The fact is that I have my evidence. Prove me wrong.
 

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