Tubby's lineup management and recruiting are failing.

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scher215 said:
And maybe we can bring in Brad Stevens as his assistant and Coach K as the water boy.
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Are you saying Stevens is out of reach for the U of MN?

If so, why?

Your tunnel tubby vision is tighter by the day.
 

Tubby got very lucky with Andre, but other than Andre the rest of his recent recruits aren't Big Ten caliber players. The cupboard is going to sparse next year with another poor recruiting class for 2013. I am very disappointed in this season and the future of Gopher basketball!

station19 said:
I would think Tubby has been recruiting pg's all along........just hasn't succeeded.
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bahamagopherfan said:
Tubby got very lucky with Andre, but other than Andre the rest of his recent recruits aren't Big Ten caliber players. The cupboard is going to sparse next year with another poor recruiting class for 2013. I am very disappointed in this season and the future of Gopher basketball!
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There is definitely reason for concern.
 

Barn Burner....maybe I am missing the sarcasm but...Brad Stevens is WAY out of reach for the U of M. I would say he is one of the top 5 if not top 3 most sought after coaches in the nation. His next spot will be somewhere with a much better developed and better history of winning program.

Bahamagopherfan - The rest of his recent recruits are not big ten caliber? Joe Coleman? Austin Hollins? Wally Elenson? We return 3 of our top 4 scorers next year so the cupboard is not that sparse. Mav, Elliot, Walker will be decent fill ins for those 3 guards. Plus redhsirt freshman Charles Buggs has the body to be a nice player as well.
 



scher215 said:
A thousand times this. Scratch that, a hundred thousand times this.

Andre is a fine PG. He is a very good passer and scorer. Sorry, not going to knock him for having both skills.

The issue is that even when Andre gets guys good looks they aren't knocking them down as well as him being the only guy who can really score and create. IMO Andre does a fantastic job of feeling the game and knowing when to score and when to facilitate, lately he's been needed as a scorer.

The thing with assists is that they require the work of two people, Dre can't force people to make open jump shots.
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+1
 


"Our offense is like the pythagorean theorem: There is no answer!" -- Shaquille O'Neal
 

bahamagopherfan said:
Tubby got very lucky with Andre, but other than Andre the rest of his recent recruits aren't Big Ten caliber players. The cupboard is going to sparse next year with another poor recruiting class for 2013. I am very disappointed in this season and the future of Gopher basketball!
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How can you say the last two recruiting classes are bad when you've only seen one of the players play? Even Ellenson only played like 20 minutes this season.
 




station19 said:
That would be a clue itself.
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Well considering there was only two people in this years class. Buggs is behind 3 seniors that play his position, and Wally broke his hand before the season started so....
 

bleedgold said:
Amazing how many Gopher Hole posters hammered MN and Tubby for offering that JUCO player Edozi and how dumb we are for being the only DIV 1 school to offer him but yet they all can use their 20-20 hindsight and say we shouldve taken a chance on Wolters? Get a clue peopel.
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The funny (and ironic thing) is that Edozie ended up with a better offer from a better basketball team (Iowa St.), and yet Tubby was a complete idiot for offering him.
 

dboy said:
I disagree.
Nolan could not shoot... so the D would sag off even further than it does now... clogging everything up.

Andre, Craft, and Burke can all shoot.. which opens up driving lanes for pump-fakes.

Andre's issue is feel and/or vision.. many times Austin is open for a 3 on the left side, or rodney is open for an alley-oop... or trevor on the post.. even if andre sees it, he either plays it safe to avoid a TO or hesitates and the window closes.. most great PG's look upcourt right away to see if players are in position to score... andre still lacks this having played the 2 most of his career.
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Nolan was no shooter but the reason the lane was clogged up was mainly because or Ralph and a stagnant offense; similar to the one that is somehow still being implemented today. You're right, Nolan wasn't a great shooter. However, he made players like Hoffarber so much better. Furthermore, Nolan is a better passer, defender and ball handler than Hollins. Don't get me wrong, Hollins is better overall, but Nolan is a better true PG; Hollins is a superior combo guard. Hollins means more to this team than Nolan did a few years ago, but Hollins would be even better with a Nolan-like player on the squad. Unfortunately, Hollins doesn't make anyone better on the floor. It all goes back to several players playing out of position.
 



Moses87 said:
Andre is great young player, but he's asked to do too much because Tubby miscalculated on Welch and Maverick being legit.
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I don't think anyone, including Tubby, thought Welch or Maverick were going to be studs or anything. If Joseph doesn't leave the program, I don't think Welch is recruited. Maverick was a spring signing.
 

dboy said:
I disagree.
Nolan could not shoot... so the D would sag off even further than it does now... clogging everything up.

Andre, Craft, and Burke can all shoot.. which opens up driving lanes for pump-fakes.

Andre's issue is feel and/or vision.. many times Austin is open for a 3 on the left side, or rodney is open for an alley-oop... or trevor on the post.. even if andre sees it, he either plays it safe to avoid a TO or hesitates and the window closes.. most great PG's look upcourt right away to see if players are in position to score... andre still lacks this having played the 2 most of his career.
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Craft is not a good shooter. He's not much better than Nolan was.
 

bleedgold said:
Barn Burner....maybe I am missing the sarcasm but...Brad Stevens is WAY out of reach for the U of M. I would say he is one of the top 5 if not top 3 most sought after coaches in the nation. His next spot will be somewhere with a much better developed and better history of winning program.

Bahamagopherfan - The rest of his recent recruits are not big ten caliber? Joe Coleman? Austin Hollins? Wally Elenson? We return 3 of our top 4 scorers next year so the cupboard is not that sparse. Mav, Elliot, Walker will be decent fill ins for those 3 guards. Plus redhsirt freshman Charles Buggs has the body to be a nice player as well.
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Bleedgold - you dont know unless you try, correct? After all, who predicted tubby to mn?
 

Andre Hollins is a good player, and definitely our most talented scorer. He is learning to play point guard, and I have faith in his ability to develop those skills. The problem is that he was recruited out of Tennessee as a "combo guard". Whenever I hear "combo guard" I scratch my head. Is it supposed to mean they are really awesome at both guard positions? No. It's meant to say, usually, that they have the skill set of a Division I shooting guard but they are too short to be an elite Division I shooting guard (so, presumably, they've been working on their ballhandling because they have a point guard's height). Andre's skill set is very similar to Lawrence Westbrook's. Good but streaky shooter, great athleticism, okay ballhandling and passing. A lot of "combo guards" fall to second tier Division 1 programs because the 6'4" - 6'7" guys who have the same skill set or better are thinking one and done. They are few and far between, obviously.

Andre is competent at the point, and I think it actually gives him more opportunities to score because he's usually shooting over guys who are smaller than the average Big Ten wing.

The fact is that very few programs get the uber-talented, size-gifted players who are playing their natural positions, because there aren't that many of them. More often, they are lacking one side or the other of the equation. Tubby is having a difficult time making these "combo" and "tweener" guys (which seem to be what he is able to recruit to Minny) fit into some sort of cohesive system.
 

savagerube said:
Nolan was no shooter but the reason the lane was clogged up was mainly because or Ralph and a stagnant offense; similar to the one that is somehow still being implemented today. You're right, Nolan wasn't a great shooter. However, he made players like Hoffarber so much better. Furthermore, Nolan is a better passer, defender and ball handler than Hollins. Don't get me wrong, Hollins is better overall, but Nolan is a better true PG; Hollins is a superior combo guard. Hollins means more to this team than Nolan did a few years ago, but Hollins would be even better with a Nolan-like player on the squad. Unfortunately, Hollins doesn't make anyone better on the floor. It all goes back to several players playing out of position.
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point taken.
a lineup of nolan, andre, austin, rodney, trevor would have been fun to watch.. however, nolan did play with rodney and trevor and you'd think it would have been a highlight alley-oop fest... but it never was.
 

dboy said:
stop judging the entire year on games like wisky.

had tyus jones played, do you think he would have had a dozen assists against wisky?....
king tyus would have been "knocked off the ball" all day, gone o-for from the field, been posted up down low, etc. schooled.
tyus frustrated? yes
tyus resorted to arguing with the refs? probably.

also, i didn't see much O from wisky? if BO is so good with x's and o's ,were where their bunnies in the 1/2 court?
do you think they are ripping Bo this week because Bruiser scored 0, fouled out, and 'hasnt developed'???
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i told ya'll not to judge the entire season based on the wisky game.

also, the difference for wisky 2nite against ohio state was they did not make the big shots down the stretch that they did against us.. and they did have good looks. just the way it goes sometime.s
 

dboy said:
point taken.
a lineup of trey burke, andre, austin, rodney, trevor would have been fun to watch.. however, nolan did play with rodney and trevor and you'd think it would have been a highlight alley-oop fest... but it never was.
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^
 

From the Barn said:
When Rodney, Coleman, and Austin combine to shoot 1-40 or whatever it is the last few games, there aren't exactly many assist opportunities for Andre.

A point guard who can't shoot is not the problem with the offense.
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Bingo! 1-40, hard to get many assists out of that.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I don't think anyone, including Tubby, thought Welch or Maverick were going to be studs or anything. If Joseph doesn't leave the program, I don't think Welch is recruited. Maverick was a spring signing.
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If Cobbs did not transfer, Mav would not be here...for good or ill.
 

andy said:
Andre Hollins is a good player, and definitely our most talented scorer. He is learning to play point guard, and I have faith in his ability to develop those skills. The problem is that he was recruited out of Tennessee as a "combo guard". Whenever I hear "combo guard" I scratch my head. Is it supposed to mean they are really awesome at both guard positions? No. It's meant to say, usually, that they have the skill set of a Division I shooting guard but they are too short to be an elite Division I shooting guard (so, presumably, they've been working on their ballhandling because they have a point guard's height). Andre's skill set is very similar to Lawrence Westbrook's. Good but streaky shooter, great athleticism, okay ballhandling and passing. A lot of "combo guards" fall to second tier Division 1 programs because the 6'4" - 6'7" guys who have the same skill set or better are thinking one and done. They are few and far between, obviously.

Andre is competent at the point, and I think it actually gives him more opportunities to score because he's usually shooting over guys who are smaller than the average Big Ten wing.

The fact is that very few programs get the uber-talented, size-gifted players who are playing their natural positions, because there aren't that many of them. More often, they are lacking one side or the other of the equation. Tubby is having a difficult time making these "combo" and "tweener" guys (which seem to be what he is able to recruit to Minny) fit into some sort of cohesive system.
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Saw a tweet, can't recall from who, that was to the effect "if scoring or passing is behind the other, you are not a combo guard" moral of the story a combo guard should be able to score and pass at a high level. However, it is a phrase that is used far too often and loosely.
 

Unregistered User said:
If Cobbs did not transfer, Mav would not be here...for good or ill.
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Doesn't make it Ok, but that's absolutely right. Cobbs is supposed to be our Sr PG right now, with Austin at the SG & Dre (or some other recruit) being the 3rd guard/protege.
 


dboy said:
point taken.
a lineup of nolan, andre, austin, rodney, trevor would have been fun to watch.. however, nolan did play with rodney and trevor and you'd think it would have been a highlight alley-oop fest... but it never was.
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Nolan played a total of seven games with Mbakwe in conference play in his four years. Rodney played just a few more than that with Nolan. When Nolan went down in the game at Michigan in 2010-2011, the team was 17-4 with a winning record in conference play. It never was an alley hoop fest because it hardly ever happened.
 


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