Johnnyboy18
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Every team in America plays cupcakes like them. Look at Indiana's schedule it was filled with them.
Tubby's lineup management and recruiting are failing.
- Thread starter savagerube
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Every team in America plays cupcakes like them. Look at Indiana's schedule it was filled with them.
savagerube
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I think what fans are looking for is a home and home series. Our non-conference schedule was good this year but they need to schedule a few more road games to prep the team for B1G road games. Indiana may have cupcakes on their schedule, but they also schedule home and home's with UNC and Kentucky. Tom Crean alluded to the fact that when Indiana beat Kentucky last year (Kentucky's only loss), it set the table for the rest of the year and their run to the Sweet 16. It's been years since the Gophers played a top-level team in the preseason at home or away; all the big games have come on a neutral floor. Do get me wrong, the basketball program is doing great in getting into high level preseason tournaments, but it should be at least supplemented by a road game against a legit opponent.
Syanni Chambers didn't have any high major offers but I think he could really be helping the Gophers had they recruited him, I can't help but think of how many points someone like Andre could get playing with a true PG like that.
station19
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Because better home games means more away games and more away games means less money for the Gophers.
All major teams schedule cupcakes, maybe the Gophers more so, but in the end the Gophers need the bucks. Always remember we don't have 80,000 - 110,000 average attendance at FB games.
mnsports255
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Inability to recruit under the radar talent and keep top in state talents (Jordan Taylor, Nate Wolters, Jared Bergrren, Jon Leuer, Mike Muscala, Mike Bruesewitz, Siyani Chambers, Kevin Noreen, etc)
That really pisses me off.
That really pisses me off.
The best five players on the team, unfortunately by far, are Trevor, Rodney, Joe, Austin and Dre. Are they all playing in their natural positions? The answer is that the question is irrelevant because the drop off is too great. Any starting lineup changes that Tubby might make would strictly be for show and to embarrass the affected players. It's possible, maybe, that you move Ellenson into the rotation for a few minutes a game out of curiosity.
There are no creative solutions to this one. Tubby has to coach these five guys through this.
There are no creative solutions to this one. Tubby has to coach these five guys through this.
BigGopherFan
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Right now, there is no doubt this team is struggling in every facet of the offensive game. However, this is the exact same bunch of "athletes" that defeated Michigan State, Memphis and Florida State. At Illinois isn't looking like the great win we thought it was back then, but it's still a road victory in the toughest conference of nation. I think after this week when the Gophers win two games and get back above .500 -- fans will be less depressed.
gopherbadgerman
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I'll chime in on the pre big ten games - Duke, USC, FSU, Stanford, Memphis - 5 good games out of 13 I believe.
Putting tournaments aside usually you get about 10 non conference games - I think there should be 3 games against good teams - home and home with all of them (including the ACC/B10 challenge) I would rather go 2-1 or 1-2 in those games than 3-0 against a bunch of smaller schools...
Putting tournaments aside usually you get about 10 non conference games - I think there should be 3 games against good teams - home and home with all of them (including the ACC/B10 challenge) I would rather go 2-1 or 1-2 in those games than 3-0 against a bunch of smaller schools...
justthefacts
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They tried that already. His name is Julian Welch. The good news is that this will be less of a problem next year. Mbakwe and Williams being seniors means you're counting on your bigs to lead the team, and bigs require a PG that can get them the ball. The team will be much more guard oriented next year, and Hollins will be just fine in that role.
Coleman's problem isn't that he's playing out of position, it's that he doesn't have a true position. He's officially 6'4", but anyone who saw him in HS saw that he didn't have the perimeter game to be a SG right away. He reminds me of Alando Tucker except a little smaller and without the ridiculous hops. But by the end of his career Tucker developed a perimeter shot. It failed him occasionally, but it made him very dangerous as teams had to at least play him honest.
Scoreboard
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Ahhhhhhh, you compared him to a Badger, ahhhhhhhhh, revenge at Williams is coming! Good comparrison just still Bitter.
GophersInIowa
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- Jordan Taylor - The Gophers had just signed Al Nolen the year before and had a commitment from Devoe Joseph.
- Nate Wolters - He was missed but I don't think anyone besides his mom (and mom's best friend?) thought he would be this good
- Jared Berggren - Agree
- Jon Leuer - We had one scholarship left and it was between him and Hoffarber. Hoffarber committed first.
- Mike Muscala and Mike Bruesewitz - There's no way you choose either one over Mbakwe, White, or Williams at that time. If Tubby had signed Muscala or Bruesewitz over any of those three, there would have been a riot. No offense to Muscala or Bruesewitz.
- Siyani Chambers - Agree
- Kevin Noreen - averages 2.6 points a game on a bad West Virginia team
You can't have five PG or six PF on the roster. It's not as simple as "we missed on this or that player because they're good somewhere else." Some years Bruesewitz and Muscala might have gotten offers from the Gophers. They just happened to be in a MN class loaded with frontcourt players. If the Gophers had 3 scholarships instead of two in 2007, Leuer might have been a Gopher as well.
station19
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Good recap.
bemidjigopher
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Molinari recruited Berggren hard, but I do believe he signed a long with Taylor before Tubby got here
DocfromDarwin
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Tubby needs to retire....Norwood T should be able to get Shaka Smart.....young blood and able to recruit
DocfromDarwin
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West v just took Kansas to a 7 point game... And a very young team.
savagerube
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Good Stuff
GophersInIowa
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Regardless, Noreen only played 11 minutes on a very young team. Just trying to point out that he has shown nothing at this point to indicate we "missed" on him.
march madness
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Wolters and Chambers hurt the most to me. I real point guard who can handle the ball, steady the team, feed the post, isnt a treat for a team it is a necessity. Even if you thought they couldnt start, you have 12 players on a team, tell me a very good back up pt guard isn't something every coach should want. In our case, maybe even two back up pt guards.
The Biggest losses were Taylor, Leuer, Berggren and Wolters.
I just looked at Chambers stats for his past 5 games: 7, 7, 3,6,2 - Those are his turnovers. Thank god we didn't get him. We need someone with a few 0's and 1's in that column. Taylor wasn't perfect but a PG like that would take us far.
I just looked at Chambers stats for his past 5 games: 7, 7, 3,6,2 - Those are his turnovers. Thank god we didn't get him. We need someone with a few 0's and 1's in that column. Taylor wasn't perfect but a PG like that would take us far.
Based on last nights broadcast, many were calling this Huggins' best team at WV. they are 9-11 now I believe?
Noreen still doesn't play ...
And maybe we can bring in Brad Stevens as his assistant and Coach K as the water boy.
A thousand times this. Scratch that, a hundred thousand times this.
Andre is a fine PG. He is a very good passer and scorer. Sorry, not going to knock him for having both skills.
The issue is that even when Andre gets guys good looks they aren't knocking them down as well as him being the only guy who can really score and create. IMO Andre does a fantastic job of feeling the game and knowing when to score and when to facilitate, lately he's been needed as a scorer.
The thing with assists is that they require the work of two people, Dre can't force people to make open jump shots.
Taylor was a badger before Tubby and Tubby didn't try to flip him after already having Al.
march madness
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I was listing players, since Tubby came, that we could have had. Otherwise I'll take El Amin, Bell, and Cole also.
On Chambers, he is averaging 13 pts, 6 ass, and 3.5 TO as a freshmen. He is also shooting 44% on 3's. His turnovers are high but I'd take him off the bench as pure pg anyday. As a sophmore I bet he gets his turnovers to 2.5 per game with 6-7 assists. He is the second leading scorer on the team and that is probably contributing to some of the turnovers. If his coach wanted him to run a team and be a 4th scoring option I am sure his turnovers would be lower.
On Chambers, he is averaging 13 pts, 6 ass, and 3.5 TO as a freshmen. He is also shooting 44% on 3's. His turnovers are high but I'd take him off the bench as pure pg anyday. As a sophmore I bet he gets his turnovers to 2.5 per game with 6-7 assists. He is the second leading scorer on the team and that is probably contributing to some of the turnovers. If his coach wanted him to run a team and be a 4th scoring option I am sure his turnovers would be lower.
savagerube
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I agree, Andre is a fine PG, but he would be a much better SG. I couldn't imagine how good Andre would be if he had consistent open looks. He's hitting shots right now with a hand in his face which makes it even more impressive. Obviously it's just my opinion but I don't recall too many open looks for the Gophers during last Saturday's game in Madison. Andre ranks 10th in in the B1G in assists. The Gopher's shooting has been bad and I realize that assist opportunities are harder to come by. Between Tubby's 3-point-weave offensive scheme and the lack of dribble penetration, the Gophers aren't getting the open looks. When there's an open look, it's only because the defense is sagging thus giving players like Rodney open space on the perimeter because he can't hit a jumper to save his life right now.
The skill that separates a Trey Burke from a Andre Hollins is that he can drive and dish. Tim Hardaway Jr was in no man's land several times against the Gophers because Burke is so good and penetrating. It's not fair to compare the two because Trey is elite, but even Aaron Craft can penetrate and create multiple open looks for DeShaun Thomas, William Buford, David Lighty, and John Dielber of the past, etc. We don't need a PG that puts up 18-20 ppg; we just need a facilitator that plays great defense. There are PG's like this all over country in D1 basketball. A point guard like Craft would go so far this team. Obviously a PG like Craft doesn't come around often but even a player 80% of Craft's caliber would be a significant improvement for this team. If we had Al Nolan playing the point right now, this team would be markedly better. We have shooters on this team; Austin Hollins his 5 consecutive threes just 3 weeks ago. They just need to get open by penetrating and implementing a half court offense that doesn't consist of three players standing around the perimeter waiting for someone else to do something.
Agree completely. The minimal amount of driving this team does is baffling with how athletic they are, especially against Wisconsin.
When we do drive it is a charge or a forced floater. Gotta look to drive and kick to shooters when the D collapses.
I'm not sure if the Gophers can't do it, won't do it, are coached not to do it, but we rarely force the D to react. Simply passing around the perimeter. That said, Dre still does very well playing the point despite a broken offense a lot of times. Have been happy to at least see more pick and roll, but gotta get better at feeding the roll man the ball.
Michigan does so much more to help Burke. They set ball screens for him and create movement. Burke would be terrific anyway, but the combination of the movement, the screening, and the threat of Hardaway, Robinson and the frosh whose name escapes me now, who can all drill it from outside or drive on you- really opens things up. Burke is better than Hollins right now but Hollins could definitely drive in the right offense.
If Chambers is racking up 3.5 turnovers a game in the Ivy League, I shudder to think of what that translates to in the Big Ten. We're talking 5+ - Against Memphis he had 7. We need a PG who can come in and play 35 minutes with just 1 or 2 turnovers a game...feed the ball into the post and drive and dish to the wing players for 3's.....I could care less how much our PG shoots or scores. Just take care of the damn ball and create shots for your teammates. Andre is great young player, but he's asked to do too much because Tubby miscalculated on Welch and Maverick being legit.
When is Gopherhole going to set a rule to get off the Nate Wolters band wagon? How easy is it to look at a guy and say we missed AFTER he had a few good seasons. Recruiting Websites, analysts, coaches are so prepared that you can no longer say the gophers missed on Nate Wolters and Blame Tubby ect....You have to call Bo Ryan an idiot and Tom Izzo, along with Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, Wofford, Northern Iowa, Marquette. All of these school are well within any recruiting range of St Cloud and if none of them offered either how can we sit here and say MN missed? Same with Chambers....did he or wolters have ANY BIG10 offers? NO.
Amazing how many Gopher Hole posters hammered MN and Tubby for offering that JUCO player Edozi and how dumb we are for being the only DIV 1 school to offer him but yet they all can use their 20-20 hindsight and say we shouldve taken a chance on Wolters? Get a clue peopel.
Amazing how many Gopher Hole posters hammered MN and Tubby for offering that JUCO player Edozi and how dumb we are for being the only DIV 1 school to offer him but yet they all can use their 20-20 hindsight and say we shouldve taken a chance on Wolters? Get a clue peopel.
I disagree.
Nolan could not shoot... so the D would sag off even further than it does now... clogging everything up.
Andre, Craft, and Burke can all shoot.. which opens up driving lanes for pump-fakes.
Andre's issue is feel and/or vision.. many times Austin is open for a 3 on the left side, or rodney is open for an alley-oop... or trevor on the post.. even if andre sees it, he either plays it safe to avoid a TO or hesitates and the window closes.. most great PG's look upcourt right away to see if players are in position to score... andre still lacks this having played the 2 most of his career.