Tubby/Texas Tech Observations

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The-Real-Truth said:
Yes I do. I am shocked that people on this board let somebody from other schools come here to bad-mouth their former coach. That shows their class.
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Bad-mouth the former coach? It's funny, for someone with the handle "real truth" you have a real problem with the truth about Tubby Smith. I said I'm glad he's gone because I want the Big Ten to look good, and I don't think there's any doubt his teams were underachieving - having an underachieving coach leave the league is good for the league. Certainly he was not getting the results he was hired to get in terms of competing in the Big Ten and having success in the NCAA tourney. After Bruce Weber left, Tubby was the weakest link among the coaches in the league - that's the real truth.
 

GuyFawkes said:
Why do we say "its not his players" when pitino struggles, but when tubby's team struggles, the blame is squarely on him. Tubby inherited a terrible team, Pitino inherited a decent/good team that tubby assembled, so obviously he should and will have a better season. Give both coaches time before coming to judgement.

And can people lay off tubby already, The guy left this program in much better shape than he inherited, was awesome in the community, and frankly recruited much better than pitino did his first year here, no matter what you guys may think. He had a lot of bad luck here with injuries, academic issues, players wanting to smoke weed, and players just flat out making dumb decisions. The reason I am fan of this program is because of Tubby, never followed the program that closely before he got here. I am hoping Pitino succeeds, because I am a fan of the team, but wish nothing but the best for Tubby. You guys make it seem like we are UNC or Kansas and are supposed to be way better, when in reality we were an after thought at the national scene before Tubby got here.
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Saul!! Stay classy (and sober)!
 

I told you. You'll be called a lot worse. Today, you are Saul. Tomorrow??????
 



OSUfan said:
Bad-mouth the former coach? It's funny, for someone with the handle "real truth" you have a real problem with the truth about Tubby Smith. I said I'm glad he's gone because I want the Big Ten to look good, and I don't think there's any doubt his teams were underachieving - having an underachieving coach leave the league is good for the league. Certainly he was not getting the results he was hired to get in terms of competing in the Big Ten and having success in the NCAA tourney. After Bruce Weber left, Tubby was the weakest link among the coaches in the league - that's the real truth.
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Wow, I used to think that you were smart. What happened? Like some people on this board, you have a memory issue. Do you remember when you guys lost Turner for a few games? Your team was falling apart. Tubby faced that here all the time. Even last year, TM was back but not 100%. Just like when Turner came back soon and you guys lost to the Gophers in MN and when Turner got better, you killed the Gophers in Indy. Again, I thought you were smart. Even some fans at UK refer to Tubby's era as good old days. It won't be long before it happens here too. Meanwhile, you guys have fun until you get cought cheating again.
 

GuyFawkes said:
Why do we say "its not his players" when pitino struggles, but when tubby's team struggles, the blame is squarely on him. Tubby inherited a terrible team, Pitino inherited a decent/good team that tubby assembled, so obviously he should and will have a better season. Give both coaches time before coming to judgement.

And can people lay off tubby already, The guy left this program in much better shape than he inherited, was awesome in the community, and frankly recruited much better than pitino did his first year here, no matter what you guys may think. He had a lot of bad luck here with injuries, academic issues, players wanting to smoke weed, and players just flat out making dumb decisions. The reason I am fan of this program is because of Tubby, never followed the program that closely before he got here. I am hoping Pitino succeeds, because I am a fan of the team, but wish nothing but the best for Tubby. You guys make it seem like we are UNC or Kansas and are supposed to be way better, when in reality we were an after thought at the national scene before Tubby got here.
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1) You are correct, both coaches inherited the players they currently are working with.

2) It's debatable that Tubby left this program in better shape. I would argue that he left it at about the same as he found it, based purely upon the talent that Pitino has to work with this season and the talent that Tubby had to work with his first season.

3) Tubby was very good in the community. I especially recall seeing him at the Dakota Jazz club to see Prince. He is a very good guy.

4) Tubby's first recruiting class was better. He was living off his legacy as a coach who won a national championship with Sr. Pitino's players.

5) Bad luck is a poor excuse. Tubby recruited those players. Be honest on this one.

6) You have a short history with the program. Despite the academic scandal, Haskin's produced some quality basketball teams that Tubby was unable to equal at any point in his tenure with Minnesota. Tubby made his hay with preseason wins, not B1G wins. His teams at MN were always staggering into or out of the dance as bubble teams.

7) Agreed, I hope nothing but good for Tubby and his family.

8) I'm glad you are a fan of the Gophers now. Ski-U-Mah!

9) We should all agree that we are at the Gopher Hole...not the Raider Hole. It's time to stop posting about Tubby Smith. Folks need to let him go and turn your eyes off from what he's doing and on to what this current Gophers team/coach are doing.
 


OSUfan said:
Dude, Weber has just gotten started. Just like at Illinois, Weber has already coached his most talented roster he will ever coach at his school very early in his tenure, and it will only be downhill just like at Illinois because Weber is a poor talent evaluator and procurer. K-State also didn't even make the S16 in what you're referring to as a "great" season - the same program that not too long ago was in the Elite 8. K-State has already suffered some embarrassing losses early this season as he has started to get "his guys" into the program (who will only make the program mired in mediocrity) - defeated in the home opener by Northern Colorado and just got routed by nearly 30 points against an unranked Georgetown team.
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This post is getting funnier and funnier... So much for Weber bringing "down" the Big 12...
 



The-Real-Truth said:
No, I don't even have a picture or a signature. Maybe, I have become an underdog defender???? He is a great man and has done so much for people other than basketball. He should have retired last year. Coaching at TT may cost him another cancer.
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So now the great Tubby Smith has become an underdog? Wow...perspective of Mr. Smith has really changed amongst his biggest fans.
 


tinyarch said:
2) It's debatable that Tubby left this program in better shape. I would argue that he left it at about the same as he found it, based purely upon the talent that Pitino has to work with this season and the talent that Tubby had to work with his first season.

In Smith's first season, the team improved from 8–22 in 2006–07 to 20–14 in 2007–08, and reached the Big Ten Tournament semifinals after defeating second-seeded Indiana. Hard to argue equality there. Monson left a program in tatters.


5) Bad luck is a poor excuse. Tubby recruited those players. Be honest on this one.

Yep, White and Joseph are his recruits, but, be honest, the injuries to Nolen and Mbakwe were bad luck and really messed up those seasons. Also, it was bad luck that a talent like White was such a nut job. Tubby was supposed to pass on a local kid that highly rated? Right.

6) You have a short history with the program. Despite the academic scandal, Haskin's produced some quality basketball teams that Tubby was unable to equal at any point in his tenure with Minnesota. Tubby made his hay with preseason wins, not B1G wins. His teams at MN were always staggering into or out of the dance as bubble teams.

Not sure about your history, but more is needed than "despite the academic scandal" which minimizes how much damage Clem did to this program. The final report also had Clem giving cash to players, and Clem also was accused of telling his players to lie to investigators about the extent of the paper writing. Only one NCAA tournament was wiped out, but you're pretty naive to think the rest of Clem's seasons were clean. Speaking of history, keep going back to see why the whole Clem thing was so devastating. There was the Madison rape trial, the Musselman violations, and the Ohio State mugging. Oh, ya, we also officially lost one season when Mychal Thompson's appeal on his ticket selling went nowhere. Fair to say, among the rest of the league, many fans saw Minnesota as a rogue program until Tubby brought it some much needed respectability?
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IMO, Tubby was going through the motions here, and Pitino was a great hire. But despite our provincialism, this is a tough place to win. It wore down Tubby, but some people are too quick to pile on him.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
No, I don't even have a picture or a signature. Maybe, I have become an underdog defender???? He is a great man and has done so much for people other than basketball. He should have retired last year. Coaching at TT may cost him another cancer.
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There is no credible evidence that "stress" increases your risk of cancer; it is only speculative.
 




howeda7 said:
No need to have ill will. Tubby is a good man. It didn't work out here as well as anyone hoped. His failing at TT does us no good. Wish him well and move on.
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+1000
 

savagerube said:
This post is getting funnier and funnier... So much for Weber bringing "down" the Big 12...
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Oh yeah, beating the worst Gonzaga team in 4 years at home, and beating a severely weakened Oklahoma State at home REALLY proves his program isn't generally on a downward trend. :rolleyes:

This is Weber's second team, and quite frankly I don't believe they are a tourney team. They are more similar to Purdue in quality at this time. But even if they make the tourney, they will get a lower seed than last year and the next year it's going to be worse to the point where they will make the tourney once every few years at best.
 

OSUfan said:
Oh yeah, beating the worst Gonzaga team in 4 years at home, and beating a severely weakened Oklahoma State at home REALLY proves his program isn't generally on a downward trend. :rolleyes: This is Weber's second team, and quite frankly I don't believe they are a tourney team. They are more similar to Purdue in quality at this time. But even if they make the tourney, they will get a lower seed than last year and the next year it's going to be worse to the point where they will make the tourney once every few years at best.
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Kansas State: #25 and rising...
 


The statement that Tubby left the program in worse shape than when he got here is simply not true.

Andre, Dre, and Austin are better than Lawrence Mackenzie or Westbrook. If I even think about Abu or Kevin Payton I want to vomit.

Elliot is better than Spence.

Damien did not get good until Tubby got there, he might be one of the few Tubby developed significantly. I will give you Dan Coleman was much better than any PF on this roster.

Tubby just took them to 1 win in the dance which was a letdown. People are quick to forget how bad the Monson era was.

That being said I am so happy the Pitino era has begun!
 

gopherlaney said:
The statement that Tubby left the program in worse shape than when he got here is simply not true.

Andre, Dre, and Austin are better than Lawrence Mackenzie or Westbrook. If I even think about Abu or Kevin Payton I want to vomit.

Elliot is better than Spence.

Damien did not get good until Tubby got there, he might be one of the few Tubby developed significantly. I will give you Dan Coleman was much better than any PF on this roster.

Tubby just took them to 1 win in the dance which was a letdown. People are quick to forget how bad the Monson era was.

That being said I am so happy the Pitino era has begun!
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Who knows, but the bottom line is that the Tubby rotation this year would have been Joe, Dre, Austin, Oto, Eliot with Mav, Mo, Foster, Buggs, Wally and the dude who doesn't play at Texas Tech off the bench. Not sure that your counter argument is waterproof
 

jamalo said:
Who knows, but the bottom line is that the Tubby rotation this year would have been Joe, Dre, Austin, Oto, Eliot with Mav, Mo, Foster, Buggs, Wally and the dude who doesn't play at Texas Tech off the bench. Not sure that your counter argument is waterproof
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Foster is that dude at Tech do you mean Ellis? I think Joey King and Dan Coleman are two in the same, both shooters, Coleman the better shooter, King seems a little tougher in the paint, don't think I ever say Danny boy with in 10 feet of the rim. I do agree Tubby would've had a rough go at it this year and then would've been canned. Like Mason, the U fired Tubby the year before rock bottom, which is fine why delay the inevitable
 


I caught the last couple minutes of the Texas Tech game last night. There couldn't have been more than 1,000 people there. It looked like one of the Maui games. I realize it's still winter break, but yikes.
 

savagerube said:
Kansas State: #25 and rising...
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Did you catch the K-State loss today? Kansas State became only the second team this season to lose to Kansas by 26 or more points, joining Towson on the list of infamy.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Foster is that dude at Tech do you mean Ellis? I think Joey King and Dan Coleman are two in the same, both shooters, Coleman the better shooter, King seems a little tougher in the paint, don't think I ever say Danny boy with in 10 feet of the rim. I do agree Tubby would've had a rough go at it this year and then would've been canned. Like Mason, the U fired Tubby the year before rock bottom, which is fine why delay the inevitable
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Correct; I mixed up Ellis and Foster
 

savagerube said:
Kansas State: #25 and rising...
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How about Bruce Weber now? Another loss today for K-State, this time to West Virginia. He is strangling that program already. They have as many Big 12 losses as they had all of last season, and only one fewer loss on the season and it's only February 1st. They have lost 3 of 4, clearly not "rising" as you suggested. Bruce Weber has K-State going backwards, just as I predicted.
 


jumpstop said:
Tubby notches another conference win today.
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Yep 3-6 with 2 wins against lowly TCU. If only they could play them more often.

Texas Tech may very well be the underdog in each of their remaining games. Good luck!
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Yep 3-6 with 2 wins against lowly TCU. If only they could play them more often.

Texas Tech may very well be the underdog in each of their remaining games. Good luck!
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"It's gonna be ugly in Lubbock. Yuck!"
 


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