Tubby on Trevor: "I think he'll have another year"
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howieramone
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The judicial process in Dade County is well documented and certainly the equivalent to our fair state. Receiving a sentence of one year probation for a sexual assault and having it wiped off your record after one year sounds like a conspiracy to me.
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Wasn't a sexual assault. Will not be wiped off the record. Agg assault not eligible for seal or expunge.
howieramone
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Source?
I don't think any felonies are eligible to be sealed or expunged.
When did he plead 'guilty' to a felony?
He didn't. He plead (probably not the right word) "no contest" but that doesn't mean it won't appear on his record.
howieramone
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Bob_Loblaw
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I am pretty certain you are wrong throughout this entire post.
The diversion program that Trevor Mbakwe entered into means that he will not have any record. The charges are completely dismissed. There is no record for him to need to be wiped clean. It's the entire purpose the program, to divert first time offenders out of the criminal process (so there are no charges).
It's called a PreTrial Diversion Program, these two websites will explain it:
http://www.richardhornsby.com/criminal/guide/alternatives.html
http://www.miamicriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/firsttime-offenders/
*The second one specifically talks about Trevor. Assuming he completed the PTD, his charges were completely dropped from that incident.
Bob_Loblaw
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No he didn't. He took a pretrial diversion, I explained it in my previous post. It's an alternative to pleading.
Yes, he entered that before this season. But during the season didn't he plead no contest because the pretrial diversion required him not to get into trouble but then he violated the restraining order.
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19978504
From the Pioneer Press when he plead no contest.
Bob_Loblaw
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Ahhh....I stand corrected.
Gopher Warrior
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No. Do you really think I am making stuff up here? I'm stating facts. He was found guilty in a court of law in the assault of a woman in Florida.
He entered a plea of no contest which is very common in criminal cases in Florida (ranging from DWIs and misdemeanor assaults to all the way to murder where people are locked up for decades). It essentially says, "I'm not going to fight the charges, go ahead and find me guilty... I'm not saying I'm guilty, but I am OK with skipping my right to a trial and just having the court find me guilty."
The authorities did not come out with a DNA swab, take his saliva and put it into a criminal database last month for no reason.
I realize the people who 2.5 years ago were yelling "innocent until proven guilty... if he's guilty then he should be kicked off the team, but let him play!" are now silent, but he really was found guilty.
[Again - don't take any of the above for my opinion on the matter.. I've never shared mine here. Those are just the facts and they hurt the U's request to get an extra year for him].
Sorry but from everything I've read he was not found "guilty" the prosecution was denied that. Please stop saying that he was found guilty when the prosecution wanted him to be found guilty but the judge said no and stuck with no contest. You may think they are the same, but at the end of the day you are technically wrong. If he was found guilty the judge would not have accepted the no contest plea and gone with the guilty the prosecution asked for.
Gopher Warrior
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No, I'm not wrong at all. You're simply ignorant on these matters. You're talking about the entering of a plea (i.e., no contest vs. guilty vs. not guilty)... I am talking about what the court decided. Completely different things.
There are also a tons of people who enter not guilty pleas... and then are found guilty in a trial. The problem with what you've read is that you're probably taking pieces of what the defense attorney(s) said... which is mostly PR b.s.
Generally in a no contest plea the defendant though not admitting guilt is treated as such. However, by getting a 1 year stay of adjudication as was ordered in this case if the defendant completes his probation period without violatiing the terms and conditions the charges are usually dismissed.
Gold Vision
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When did the court find him guilty? They withheld adjudication.
True. It's really hard to infer your opinion on Mbakwe. Funny, I've never seen it reported that Trevor was found 'guilty' of assault in Florida anyplace else. Except from you on here, over and over. But I guess that's just a passionate desire to make sure we all know the Florida judicial system.
Well, that's a bit disingenuous with the facts. The school's position on Trevor's playing status changed when the status of the court case changed. You make it sound like nothing happened and all of the sudden the U said, 'well, Trevor can play.' Not the case. Trevor was suspended when he was charged with a felony and awaiting a court trial. Trevor had his suspension removed when he was admitted to a pre-trial program that in essence put him on a course to have the case be done without trial, without a felony, and without charges. Clearly, you can see the U's position switch was reasonable, right? This wasn't a case of Joel Maturi just one day waking up and saying, "hey, let's just let Trevor play even though the case status is the same." The NCAA will get those details.
I'm not sure that technically he has still been found guilty in the Miami case. Seems to me the court has willingly held off on the case until Trevor's probationary period is up. He did not plead guilty, the judge adjudicated everything. There is no conviction on his record.
I agree this appeal to the NCAA is a long shot, but I don't think it is as bleak as you think. There are factors that the NCAA will be told that will help Trevor's case be sympathetic, not the least of which is a slow judicial process involving a flawed and flimsy case, that never did see the light of day in a courtroom, a plea that was clearly still no admission of guilt, two years of injuries (I know the first doesn't count, but that doesn't mean he won't garner sympathy from it), possible hardship issues with his family situation and likely other things. The NCAA has become much more pro-athlete in the last several years, and remember, those making the decisions on the NCAA aren't disgruntled Marquette fans.
Gopher Warrior
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Guys, you can keep dreaming, but by definition a withhold of adjudication can only occur when a court finds the defendant to be guilty. Again, it's very common in Florida. It's not the most straight forward stuff, but some of you are struggling when you try to make it simple and are getting it all wrong. I'll make it simple for you: the court found him to be guilty.
It's things like this where.. I'm not even sure where you're trying to go with this? If/When you realize what I am saying is true and correct, will it change your mind on anything? I doubt it and if not, why even bother to keep making things up?
A few weeks ago, because the court found him guilty, they flipping did an oral DNA swab for their criminal database.
Now, just because a court of law finds you guilty doesn't mean you really did the crime.. but, for the Committee, it's what they'll have to conclude. That's why this topic has been and continues to be significant as to the U's roster.
tjgopher said:
It's things like this where.. I'm not even sure where you're trying to go with this? If/When you realize what I am saying is true and correct, will it change your mind on anything? I doubt it and if not, why even bother to keep making things up?
A few weeks ago, because the court found him guilty, they flipping did an oral DNA swab for their criminal database.
Now, just because a court of law finds you guilty doesn't mean you really did the crime.. but, for the Committee, it's what they'll have to conclude. That's why this topic has been and continues to be significant as to the U's roster.
Gold Vision
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He was found guilty but not adjudicated guilty. There was no formal conviction.
GopherJake
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I ain't no lawyer, but I did find this:
http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/cjis/CasePrinter.aspx?case=F09014091
Listing TM's case Disposition as: "WH ADJ-PROB SP COND"
Interestingly, the only notation of a plea is "Not Guilty" (on 05/09/2009). No notation of a "No Contest" plea, that I can see. No notation that he has been or will be found guilty.
It does say on 02/16/2012:
"Order: placing defendant on administrative probation"
"Stay granted - Due 01/16/2013"
Here's what "chick on internet" says the listed Disposition means:
http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/47o8m-does-wh-adj-prob-sp-cond-regarding-felony-case.html
"This is a deferred adjudication probation disposition. That is, the person takes a plea of guilty or no contest with a promise of probation. After he completes his probation and all special conditions, the adjudication is withheld and no judgment of guilty goes onto his record. So he would not have a felony record.
Basically then, it stands for "Withheld Adjudication-Probation Special Conditions."
Seems reliable. I really hope it is, then maybe GW will shut his pie hole. (Note: I am only stating facts. I have never given my assessment of GW's take on this or his general pompous attitude.)
Maybe a lawyer type can explain this or explain why "chick on internet" is wrong or why information may be missing. Or what not.
p.s. Free throws don't matter
http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/cjis/CasePrinter.aspx?case=F09014091
Listing TM's case Disposition as: "WH ADJ-PROB SP COND"
Interestingly, the only notation of a plea is "Not Guilty" (on 05/09/2009). No notation of a "No Contest" plea, that I can see. No notation that he has been or will be found guilty.
It does say on 02/16/2012:
"Order: placing defendant on administrative probation"
"Stay granted - Due 01/16/2013"
Here's what "chick on internet" says the listed Disposition means:
http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/47o8m-does-wh-adj-prob-sp-cond-regarding-felony-case.html
"This is a deferred adjudication probation disposition. That is, the person takes a plea of guilty or no contest with a promise of probation. After he completes his probation and all special conditions, the adjudication is withheld and no judgment of guilty goes onto his record. So he would not have a felony record.
Basically then, it stands for "Withheld Adjudication-Probation Special Conditions."
Seems reliable. I really hope it is, then maybe GW will shut his pie hole. (Note: I am only stating facts. I have never given my assessment of GW's take on this or his general pompous attitude.)
Maybe a lawyer type can explain this or explain why "chick on internet" is wrong or why information may be missing. Or what not.
p.s. Free throws don't matter
NurumbiCongo
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It's ridiculous that he is GH staff. I stopped reading his write-ups long ago. We need more Chris and way less Jesse.
Gopher Warrior
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Jake - Ehh, you're sort of on the right track with some of this, but not exactly. (PS - "I have never given my assessment of his general pompous attitude" seems like an assessment to me.)
What doesn't go on the record, because it would never occur if the conditions are satisfactorily completed, is a conviction. In addition, a withhold of adjudication in some cases it allows for a record to be expunged or sealed... however, there are a number of types of crimes for which sealing is generally not available (including agg assault).
So.. I think the benefit in this matter of having the withhold of adjudication is that it doesn't take away certain of his rights that otherwise might be (for example, the right to vote and the right to bear arms).
Gold Vision actually had something worthwhile and correct to say.. "He was found guilty but not adjudicated guilty. There was no formal conviction."
Again, both no contest pleas and withholds of adjudication are very common in various Florida criminal matters. The court found him to be guilty after he elected to not dispute the charges against him. Pretty simple.
What doesn't go on the record, because it would never occur if the conditions are satisfactorily completed, is a conviction. In addition, a withhold of adjudication in some cases it allows for a record to be expunged or sealed... however, there are a number of types of crimes for which sealing is generally not available (including agg assault).
So.. I think the benefit in this matter of having the withhold of adjudication is that it doesn't take away certain of his rights that otherwise might be (for example, the right to vote and the right to bear arms).
Gold Vision actually had something worthwhile and correct to say.. "He was found guilty but not adjudicated guilty. There was no formal conviction."
Again, both no contest pleas and withholds of adjudication are very common in various Florida criminal matters. The court found him to be guilty after he elected to not dispute the charges against him. Pretty simple.
Gold Vision
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That's not correct, in Florida, being found guilty means that you have either admitted guilt by entering a guilty or no contest plea to a criminal charge or you were found guilty by a jury after a trial. Only after you have been found guilty can the court consider the adjudication. You cannot have adjudication withheld unless you have first been found guilty by the court. After a finding of guilt the court has the option of adjudicating you guilty or withholding the adjudication of guilt. By withholding the adjudication of guilt the court is not convicting you of the crime. If the offense is a felony you will not lose your civil rights. In some cases, having the adjudication of guilt withheld also leaves you eligible to have your criminal history record sealed or expunged, but aggravated assault does not qualify for those terms.
Basically, in the State of Florida, if a job application asks Trevor if he's been convicted of a felony, he doesn't have to answer yes. Most job applications now ask if you've pled guilty or no contest to a felony to get around that rule though. The offense will always be on his record.
NurumbiCongo
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You call him guilty if it makes you feel better. The only part I care about is if I believe he was assaulted the young woman, which I nor-90+% of gopher fans don't believe he did.
It seems you believe he was guilty of the assault? I'm guessing your to big of a coward to answer that question.
GopherJake
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........
Here's what "chick on internet" says the listed Disposition means:
http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-l...lony-case.html
"This is a deferred adjudication probation disposition. That is, the person takes a plea of guilty or no contest with a promise of probation. After he completes his probation and all special conditions, the adjudication is withheld and no judgment of guilty goes onto his record. So he would not have a felony record.
Basically then, it stands for "Withheld Adjudication-Probation Special Conditions."
p.s. Free throws don't matter
Gold Vision said:
Interesting - and it makes sense, I guess. Are you a lawyer? I find it curious that there is no indication of "guilty" or "no contest" or any admission thereof in the court record. The rest is pretty much exactly what "chick on internet" said, isn't it?
Only one poster said anything out of line and that was gopher hole staff member JB. Not to mention you edited the one post from gopher jake and his full comments. If you were going to leave a post on the thread why wouldn't it be the first with Tubby's quote? Another GH-Mod failure.
GopherJake
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To clarify, I re-posted above to continue the conversation where it left off in the now-closed thread (um, why was it closed????). I would actually like to know the answer. From what I have seen, there is nothing that convinces me that TM has admitted guilt or has made a plea that is a de facto admission of guilt. But I am not a lawyer. I highly doubt GopherWarrior is either. Not sure about GoldVision. What GoldVision says makes some sense, but I'm not sure if it is correct or not. He didn't identify himself as a lawyer or provide supporting evidence.
Here, again, is a link to his court record:
http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/cjis/CasePrinter.aspx?case=F09014091
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