Tubby can recover

[savagerube]

If we calculate the lost sales of merchandise and arena sales of all kinds, and poor fundraising totals for practice facilities and the like, keeping Smith could be the worst thing for this program. 5 years into his regime and a new practice facility is hardly a gleem in the President's eye. Fundraising hasn't come close to sufficiency. Those are all ways of measuring the non performance of Smith. Playing under .500 for another year just adds more insult in paying for this non performance. Yes, yes, yes, he isn't paid to deliver on those metrics, but his actions influence how well they perform. He is a primary catalyst for delivering in these areas. Well, Smith doesn't sell well on Main Street. His accomplishments have been many, except at Minnesota. No Championships. No runner up. Not even an NIT run. Yet, we will debate his merits like we have some positive news to which to balance the equation. So far, the conjecture of his virtue has been his string of bad luck. Not much to brag about in Minnesota for having Tubby at the helm. Would any of you bet that if we gave him an extention of 10 years that he would win a conference championship once in that span? I wouldn't. I wouldn't with Monson, either. I just don't see the march of progress with him. He does not compare to our Robinson, Anderson, Kill (very high potential) or even Lucia. These guys are producing in volumes and with Smith, we only herald his potential based on his coaching at Kentucky. Nobody is beating a path to Williams Arena looking for Tubby. The recruits are not awe inspired by his legend. He is not the prize coach we would have liked upon hiring him.

The fact is that this coach is a lemon. The engine has been rebuilt every year and there is no gain in performance. Monson went to the second round at the dance. Smith at Minnesota has yet to get there. I don't have confidence that next year show better odds of getting there.

Ummmm? What dance are you referring to?

 

[tikited]

I really don't think/care if you are a Badger fan, but unfortunately graduating from the U does not make you exempt from that accusation. Unfortunately I saw kids in my classes every day with Badger gear on. I lived with a few that went to the U but cheered for Wisconsin in everything.

Those are the worst kind..

 

[scools12]

even without Trevor this team had their chances. four games can be pointed to @ Ill, 2 games with Iowa and the Wisc game where they had chances at the end of the games to win and didn't make the plays. they lose all 4 and they are in the situation they are in. if they had gone 2 and 2 they would still be right in it for a NCAA bid.

of course not having your best player hurt but the opportunities where there and it didn't get done. if they had won a couple of these games this whole Tubby discussion probably wouldn't be happening.

 

[SelectionSunday]

even without Trevor this team had their chances. four games can be pointed to @ Ill, 2 games with Iowa and the Wisc game where they had chances at the end of the games to win and didn't make the plays.

I'd add the Michigan game, too. We start 0-zippo in our first 2 conference games, and in both games we had nowhere near our best player taking wild shots (that had no chance) that could have won it or put us ahead.

 

[scools12]

I'd add the Michigan game, too. We start 0-zippo in our first 2 conference games, and in both games we had nowhere near our best player taking wild shots (that had no chance) that could have won it or put us ahead.

Forgot about the Michigan game. Can add the home game Illinois in too. Got that one but otherwise 1-5 in those end of game type situations when plays needed to be made.

 

[920/414 Gopher]

Trevor is 23. He is a fully developed young man.

Maybe I missed it, but I think Dpodoll forgot to mention that Mbakwe also spent the summer playing for Team USA and attending camps run by LeBron James and Amare Stoudemire. You think he would have been the same player as last season after doing all of that?

 

[zambam]

Trevor is 23. He is a fully developed young man. He is older than Kevin Love. He has been in this city for 3 years. he also grew up here.

The generally accepted prime of an athlete is 27. He has 4 more years of development.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Face it folks- Tubby is going nowhere except by his choosing. The program is over a barrel with him. Two years to go and there will be no buyout. He's more likely to get a pseudo extension (no buyout with added years for recruiting purposes) than be fired.

So - in my opinion we need to hope for a recovery with Tubby at the helm. Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Finish this year by offering big minutes to Andre Hollins, Coleman, and EE. That's your future. Let's start commiting to them now and see what they can do over the next several games. Live with the mistakes and grow their confidence by backing them.

2. After the season it's time for a staff overhaul. Find the best available recruiter and and offensive mind and hire them on. Get the players on a big time no nonsense summer lifting and conditioning program such that they come back better, stronger players next fall.

3. It's time for a statement of future goals. Without Brewser-like bluster I want to hear that we are going all out to compete for a Big Ten Championship. I want to see some recommitment by our coach. I think there are a couple of future recruits in town who need to hear that as well.

4. The new athletic director and Kaler need to announce that we are going forward with the the practice facility and tie it to the money they are going to gain from the premium seating as well as other fundraising. I don't care how they do it-just get it done. No more excuses.

Tubby can recover in a big way with just a top 5 finish next year. The team will not be young anymore. I would love to see us go after a nasty Juco PF who can give this team some physical leadership if we don't get the miraculous 6th year out of Mbakwe. If he can muster a big year next year we might stand a fighting chance with Jones or Vaughn or both. That's the best hope for the program.

Excellent post. We're NOT firing Tubby after this year or during next season. Tubby haters need to accept this fact, bury the hatchet & try to support the team. Let's get Dre, Coleman, EE + Austin, Chip & Oto extended minutes from here on out. I expect a top 1/2 of the B1G finish next year, a tourney appearance, a win in the tourney & continued player development. I too want to see a bruising Juco forward recruited & think with a good season, we gain some momentum & then go in 2013-2014 with a team that could really be special. If that happens we'll have a strong shot with Vaughn & Jones.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The biggest key is NO major transfers. Zero. If there are significant transfers, again, he's gotta be on a very hot seat.

If Mav, Chip, or Ingram leave its not ideal but it is manageable, especially if there is a guy who we can give that scholarship to like Johnny Woodard or Philip Nolan, but anyone else and they'd need to produce a good season to save him.

How can you lump Chip in that group?

 

[howieramone]

Excellent post. We're NOT firing Tubby after this year or during next season. Tubby haters need to accept this fact, bury the hatchet & try to support the team. Let's get Dre, Coleman, EE + Austin, Chip & Oto extended minutes from here on out. I expect a top 1/2 of the B1G finish next year, a tourney appearance, a win in the tourney & continued player development. I too want to see a bruising Juco forward recruited & think with a good season, we gain some momentum & then go in 2013-2014 with a team that could really be special. If that happens we'll have a strong shot with Vaughn & Jones.

+1

 

[zambam]

How can you lump Chip in that group?

Chip has been showing bad body language lately and if Joe develops his shot they are essentially the same player. Also, we are bringing in Ellenson who seems to be a pretty similar player.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

IMO - a big, big error was not handing the ball to Andre Hollins right out of the shoot and let him make mistakes, learn and grow. If he had done that Hollins would be playing like a Sophomore right now and we would know what we have for the future.

He had a bad wheel until about mid-season.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

duplicate post

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

We haven't finished 5th, officially, since 1993. So i guess I agree that Tubby can recover with such a finish, but what has he done in 5 years to make anyone think that's within the realm of possibility?

Beat #1 Purdue, UNC, WVU, Michigan, has us ranked #15 in the nation, all while waiting to get a key player back. If Devoe hadn't transferred & Nolen hadn't gotten hurt we finish in the top 5. You can argue injuries are part of the game or whatever, but you can't deny we were on track & that's why I think it's absolutely within the realm of possibility.

 

[balds]

Trevor was a huge loss because of type of player he is and that he is irreplaceable with our remaining roster. Without him (or a player somewhat like him) we are very soft inside. I would attribute giving up second chance points as the main factor in our demise. Specifically, the home games vs. Iowa, Wisconsin and Ohio St. and our inability to secure rebounds in those games stick out in my mind. Not to mention not having anyone to guard Sullinger, Green etc.

Same situation last year. It wasn't than Nolen was a fantastic player, just that we had nobody who could come close to providing the role he did.

 

[howieramone]

Beat #1 Purdue, UNC, WVU, Michigan, has us ranked #15 in the nation, all while waiting to get a key player back. If Devoe hadn't transferred & Nolen hadn't gotten hurt we finish in the top 5. You can argue injuries are part of the game or whatever, but you can't deny we were on track & that's why I think it's absolutely within the realm of possibility.

+1

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Chip has been showing bad body language lately and if Joe develops his shot they are essentially the same player. Also, we are bringing in Ellenson who seems to be a pretty similar player.

Bad body language? I would hope so! I'm sick of guys happily accepting 20-0 runs. Chip is a special kind of player, perfectly suited to the 6th man role. No way Ellenson makes a dent in Chips' minutes & perhaps Coleman will get that jumper working next season, perhaps. Regardless, what Chip brings is a certain intensity & swagger that the second unit needs. He'll always need a leash, but he'll win us some games too.

 

[zambam]

Bad body language? I would hope so! I'm sick of guys happily accepting 20-0 runs. Chip is a special kind of player, perfectly suited to the 6th man role. No way Ellenson makes a dent in Chips' minutes & perhaps Coleman will get that jumper working next season, perhaps. Regardless, what Chip brings is a certain intensity & swagger that the second unit needs. He'll always need a leash, but he'll win us some games too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that that is the logic behind him being on that list.

 

[BigGopherFan]

I love how everyone is OK with constant rebuilding and completely blind to what's going on with the University of Minnesota men's basketball program. Say what you want about KFAN, but I heard Dan Berriero say something this afternoon that actually made sense. Tubby always seems to refer to the team as "them" and "they" -- not "us" and "we." He also has this attitude that there's simply nothing he can do and that the players just aren't good enough. His death stare is getting old too and his hockey rotations are complete nonsense. Minnesota played like they had never seen the 1-3-1 NW zone before, and that's mainly Tubby's fault for not preparing his team. Also, let's not forget the obvious: THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS!!!! He recruited them. He thought they would be good college basketball players and fit his "system." And let me say this, his defense first, second and third philosophy is disgusting. Minnesota often looks like they have no idea what they are doing on offense. And then when the shot clock winds down, Tubby didn't recruit -- or was unable to retain -- a dynamic player to break down the defense and actually finish.

So, what's going to happen 365 days from now when the Gophers are on their way to another 9th place finish in the Big Ten and the incoming recruiting class includes zero top 150 prospects. Are we just going to chalk it up to bad luck and circumstances, or are we going to unite and quit being happy with dismal basketball?

Tubby Smith 100% needs to be dismissed and the end of the season. I literally cannot watch this team play anymore because they are so inept, and that's sad. And the way some fans on here still think he is the answer and that he's going to someday turn things around is simply bizarre. Why is it always "someday" with this program? Someday isn't even tomorrow, or next week, or next month or even next year. With Tubby Smith as head coach, someday is never

 

[ruppertflywheel]

I respectfully disagree on Tubby and his staff. They had ample time to prepare for the 1-3-1 trap zone and they floundered miserably. Plus, no halftime adjustments that I could see. I believe a HC hires the ass't coaches who help him round out elements of coaching. Clem was not the best X/O coach, but he had a great one in Al Brown, who was. master at halftime adjustments.

 

[howieramone]

I love how everyone is OK with constant rebuilding and completely blind to what's going on with the University of Minnesota men's basketball program. Say what you want about KFAN, but I heard Dan Berriero say something this afternoon that actually made sense. Tubby always seems to refer to the team as "them" and "they" -- not "us" and "we." He also has this attitude that there's nothing he can do; the players just aren't good enough. His death stare is getting old too and his hockey rotations are complete nonsense. Minnesota played like they had never seen the 1-3-1 NW zone before, and that's mainly Tubby's fault for not preparing his team. Also, let's not forget the obvious: THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS!!!! He recruited them. He thought they would be good college basketball players and fit his "system." And let me say this, his defense first, second and third philosophy is disgusting. Minnesota often looks like they have no idea what they are doing on offense. And then when the shot clock winds down, Tubby didn't recruit -- or was unable to retain -- a dynamic player to break down the defense and actually finish.

So, what's going to happen 365 days from now when the Gophers are on their way to another 9th place finish in the Big Ten and the incoming recruiting class includes zero top 150 prospects. Are we just going to chalk it up to bad luck and circumstances, or are we going to unite and quit being happy with dismal basketball?

Tubby Smith 100% needs to be dismissed and the end of the season. I literally cannot watch this team play anymore because they are so inept, and that's sad. And the way some fans on here still think he is the answer and that he's going to someday turn things around is simply bizarre. Why is it always "someday" with this program? Someday isn't even tomorrow, or next week, or next month or even next year. With Tubby Smith as head coach, someday is never

I'm going to chalk it up to bad luck and watch good young players develop. Can't wait to see our new recruits.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I've lurked for just under a year, read regularly trying to get good Gopher news, recruiting info and a laugh or too (usually from post game reactions). I feel I have a level head, like to sleep on things before reacting. After much thought here's why I'm not a tubby fan.

I cannot remember the last time there was an inbounds play/situation where I've felt confident we had a chance to score off of it or even get the ball in for that matter. Also, in terms of set plays/end of half situations I have absolutely no faith whatsoever. In my eyes Tubby might possibly be the worst in game/situational coach I've seen I the B1G. I'm uncertain that he knows Northwestern runs a 1-3-1, Iowa is undersized or that Wisconsin has bigs that can shoot a 3. Year over year we struggle against the same teams and doing the same things. Overall strategy, I like him. In theory he knows his teams strengths and weaknesses and CAN draw up a gameplan from time to time, for the first half of a game. Rarely, however, can he change if something in the game suddly changes or his original gameplay doesn't work. Overall he is sub average B1G game day coach.

He has shown he can recruit talent, but as someone else stated he struggles severely managing D1 athletes. That's what it's about sometimes, find a way to get that talent to succeed. Set them up for success. He's mismanaged apossible all BIG 12 player, all PAC 12 players and possibly a few others. He recruited these players, he knew what he was getting. He failed. Those are, in essence, empty scholarships, wastes of time and money that could have been spent on developing other talent and or getting other recruits. No excuses, those are HUGE issues, not rationale to explain his shortcomings and excuse his mediocrity, but reasons to question his leadership and influence.

That said, I don't think we can get much better. The fear of the unknown is what scares me. He gets paid like a middle of the B1G coach and that's what we get out of him. We get rid of him to court an up and comer and miss, we are in a much worse spot than we are today. I think the AD hire is key, get Tubby a facility that can help him hang onto players and lead this team to the upper half of the B1G. Develop an assistant to take over in a few years and hopefully grow this program the right way rather than through a sexy hc hire.

That's my $.02

 

[jamalo]

Players don't get better year-to-year. Trevor wasn't any better this year than he was last year, in his second year in a system with the same coach, many of the same players, same routine, same city, etc., etc. Nope, he was exactly the same. Thank you for opening my eyes!

And yes, though you think it some sort of insult, I will proudly proclaim that I am a Tubby lover. That is because I am a lover and supporter of the U and all its teams, including the coaches so long as they are the coaches. I root for the coaches to do well, because that means the teams are doing well. I would rather root for success than root for failure because I hate the person and want to be rid of him. Glen Mason in his last few years was a joke in terms of his effort. I still rooted for him because he was the Gopher coach. The second he was gone, it was open season. I have, and will continue to, love Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach, whether that's next month, next year, or next decade. I can start a thread on the front page proclaiming my unconditional and undying love for Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach. Let me know if that's what you want and I will gladly comply.

Dpodoll a Tubby disinformation agent who is desperately in need of better talking points

 

[scher215]

And yes, though you think it some sort of insult, I will proudly proclaim that I am a Tubby lover. That is because I am a lover and supporter of the U and all its teams, including the coaches so long as they are the coaches. I root for the coaches to do well, because that means the teams are doing well. I would rather root for success than root for failure because I hate the person and want to be rid of him. Glen Mason in his last few years was a joke in terms of his effort. I still rooted for him because he was the Gopher coach. The second he was gone, it was open season. I have, and will continue to, love Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach, whether that's next month, next year, or next decade. I can start a thread on the front page proclaiming my unconditional and undying love for Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach. Let me know if that's what you want and I will gladly comply.

I didn't see this post right away, but glad it was quoted above me so that I did. I feel the exact same way.

 

[pregameatblarneys]

We actually need to hope for a transfer, ideally Ingram. He seems to try hard, but he's way low on the depth chart and Mo is back next year- we need a scholarship to open up in the event Trevor gets the 6th year.

The biggest key is NO major transfers. Zero. If there are significant transfers, again, he's gotta be on a very hot seat.

If Mav, Chip, or Ingram leave its not ideal but it is manageable, especially if there is a guy who we can give that scholarship to like Johnny Woodard or Philip Nolan, but anyone else and they'd need to produce a good season to save him.

 

[bga1]

Players don't get better year-to-year. Trevor wasn't any better this year than he was last year, in his second year in a system with the same coach, many of the same players, same routine, same city, etc., etc. Nope, he was exactly the same. Thank you for opening my eyes!

And yes, though you think it some sort of insult, I will proudly proclaim that I am a Tubby lover. That is because I am a lover and supporter of the U and all its teams, including the coaches so long as they are the coaches. I root for the coaches to do well, because that means the teams are doing well. I would rather root for success than root for failure because I hate the person and want to be rid of him. Glen Mason in his last few years was a joke in terms of his effort. I still rooted for him because he was the Gopher coach. The second he was gone, it was open season. I have, and will continue to, love Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach, whether that's next month, next year, or next decade. I can start a thread on the front page proclaiming my unconditional and undying love for Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach. Let me know if that's what you want and I will gladly comply.

dpdoll- That's a great attitude and good for you. However, with all due respect, rooting is different than sharing honestly what one's views about what they see are. I can watch the worst Gopher team of all times and I'll pay to see them and I will cheer them on and the coach on the whole game and the whole season. But the losing is frustrating and I think it's pretty hard to say honestly that we like what we see happening on the floor in most games. There are tons of reasons why this could be but what people are seeing with their eyes is going to cause even the very best fans to be frustrated. I agree with defending the coach against flat out bashers who cannot be pleased with less than a firing, but I think it's okay to discuss why we think what we see is not working.

 

[minngg]

dpdoll- That's a great attitude and good for you. However, with all due respect, rooting is different than sharing honestly what one's views about what they see are. I can watch the worst Gopher team of all times and I'll pay to see them and I will cheer them on and the coach on the whole game and the whole season. But the losing is frustrating and I think it's pretty hard to say honestly that we like what we see happening on the floor in most games. There are tons of reasons why this could be but what people are seeing with their eyes is going to cause even the very best fans to be frustrated. I agree with defending the coach against flat out bashers who cannot be pleased with less than a firing, but I think it's okay to discuss why we think what we see is not working.

To want team success is more important than supporting a coach. Especially one that calls his team "them". I want MN basketball to succeed. I could care less what the name of the coach is. I root for the team every game no matter what, but if a coach looks to me like he is failing, I want change.

 

[GoodasGold]

And yes, though you think it some sort of insult, I will proudly proclaim that I am a Tubby lover. That is because I am a lover and supporter of the U and all its teams, including the coaches so long as they are the coaches. I root for the coaches to do well, because that means the teams are doing well. I would rather root for success than root for failure because I hate the person and want to be rid of him. Glen Mason in his last few years was a joke in terms of his effort. I still rooted for him because he was the Gopher coach. The second he was gone, it was open season. I have, and will continue to, love Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach, whether that's next month, next year, or next decade. I can start a thread on the front page proclaiming my unconditional and undying love for Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach. Let me know if that's what you want and I will gladly comply.

...and God bless these United States of America!

 

[bga1]

...and God bless these United States of America!

+1

I could find you a couple of posters on the OT board that might disagree.

 

[Moonlight]

I love how everyone is OK with constant rebuilding and completely blind to what's going on with the University of Minnesota men's basketball program. Say what you want about KFAN, but I heard Dan Berriero say something this afternoon that actually made sense. Tubby always seems to refer to the team as "them" and "they" -- not "us" and "we." He also has this attitude that there's simply nothing he can do and that the players just aren't good enough. His death stare is getting old too and his hockey rotations are complete nonsense. Minnesota played like they had never seen the 1-3-1 NW zone before, and that's mainly Tubby's fault for not preparing his team. Also, let's not forget the obvious: THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS!!!! He recruited them. He thought they would be good college basketball players and fit his "system." And let me say this, his defense first, second and third philosophy is disgusting. Minnesota often looks like they have no idea what they are doing on offense. And then when the shot clock winds down, Tubby didn't recruit -- or was unable to retain -- a dynamic player to break down the defense and actually finish.

So, what's going to happen 365 days from now when the Gophers are on their way to another 9th place finish in the Big Ten and the incoming recruiting class includes zero top 150 prospects. Are we just going to chalk it up to bad luck and circumstances, or are we going to unite and quit being happy with dismal basketball?

Tubby Smith 100% needs to be dismissed and the end of the season. I literally cannot watch this team play anymore because they are so inept, and that's sad. And the way some fans on here still think he is the answer and that he's going to someday turn things around is simply bizarre. Why is it always "someday" with this program? Someday isn't even tomorrow, or next week, or next month or even next year. With Tubby Smith as head coach, someday is never

Since you literally cannot watch the team we will not look for anything from you on future games. And most of the rest of us will literally not be uniting in the quest for ousting the current coach. Many of us recognise that is not happening at this time regardless.