Tubby can recover

[tikited]

Face it folks- Tubby is going nowhere except by his choosing. The program is over a barrel with him. Two years to go and there will be no buyout. He's more likely to get a pseudo extension (no buyout with added years for recruiting purposes) than be fired.

So - in my opinion we need to hope for a recovery with Tubby at the helm. Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Finish this year by offering big minutes to Andre Hollins, Coleman, and EE. That's your future. Let's start commiting to them now and see what they can do over the next several games. Live with the mistakes and grow their confidence by backing them.

2. After the season it's time for a staff overhaul. Find the best available recruiter and and offensive mind and hire them on. Get the players on a big time no nonsense summer lifting and conditioning program such that they come back better, stronger players next fall.

3. It's time for a statement of future goals. Without Brewser-like bluster I want to hear that we are going all out to compete for a Big Ten Championship. I want to see some recommitment by our coach. I think there are a couple of future recruits in town who need to hear that as well.

4. The new athletic director and Kaler need to announce that we are going forward with the the practice facility and tie it to the money they are going to gain from the premium seating as well as other fundraising. I don't care how they do it-just get it done. No more excuses.

Tubby can recover in a big way with just a top 5 finish next year. The team will not be young anymore. I would love to see us go after a nasty Juco PF who can give this team some physical leadership if we don't get the miraculous 6th year out of Mbakwe. If he can muster a big year next year we might stand a fighting chance with Jones or Vaughn or both. That's the best hope for the program.

I agree with the majority of this. Now that Dre is healthy, we have to go with him as the primary PG (he's not one by a long shot but we have to find out if he can be one before next season rolls around).

I do think some people are using the "we are a young team" excuse way too much right now. We are now at the tail-end of the season and we really only have two true freshmen playing. I think it's time to put that excuse to bed imo.

Things can turn around really quickly if Rodney and Trevor come back. If that happens, Tubby better get us to the Sweet 16 or bust. Anything less would be a major bummer.

If only Rodney comes back we still should see some improvement. Is making it to the tourney enough to be considered a recovery? For me...it would be.

As Bga wrote: We are over a barrel with Tubby. Stupid to get rid of him. Possibly stupid to lock him up for too many years (if no recovery is evident).

Great thing about hoops is how one or two players can change everything in one year.

 

[ChemEGopher]

Tubby can recover in a big way with just a top 5 finish next year. The team will not be young anymore. I would love to see us go after a nasty Juco PF who can give this team some physical leadership if we don't get the miraculous 6th year out of Mbakwe. If he can muster a big year next year we might stand a fighting chance with Jones or Vaughn or both. That's the best hope for the program.

We haven't finished 5th, officially, since 1993. So i guess I agree that Tubby can recover with such a finish, but what has he done in 5 years to make anyone think that's within the realm of possibility?

 

[Monty519]

We haven't finished 5th, officially, since 1993. So i guess I agree that Tubby can recover with such a finish, but what has he done in 5 years to make anyone think that's within the realm of possibility?

When you move past the top 3 or 4 in the conference and into that middle 4 or 5, there's just a big pool of teams that on any given day can beat one another. It only takes a game or two to make a huge difference in the standings.

In Tubby's first year, they were 2 games from 5th. His 2nd year they were a game from 4th. His third year they were a game from 5th. Even last year they were only 3 games from 4th, and we all know how many games they botched up, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It doesn't take much. It wouldn't be that inconceivable that they could pull out a 5th place conference finish next year, as they've been right there in previous seasons until last year.

BTW, Monson's squad tied for 4th in his NCAA tourney season.

 

[bga1]

We haven't finished 5th, officially, since 1993. So i guess I agree that Tubby can recover with such a finish, but what has he done in 5 years to make anyone think that's within the realm of possibility?

In my view- nothing. Except- the one giant thing in Tubby's favor is the fact that he has undeniably had some really bad luck regarding injuries and also the Royce White deal. I give him zero slack on the Joseph and Cobbs deal because those guys were here, healthy and Tubby was not able to sell them on the program and schme he has in place.

So, ChemE-the question remains open as to how well Tubby can do if he ends the year with no meaningful turnover and we go through next year healthy. I don't like what I've seen but I do hold out some hope on that basis (better luck).

 

[Moonlight]

I don't think Tubby has ever fired an assistant. He's just too nice and loyal to do so.

I hope this is not true. I think most here who have been in leadership would say that appropriately moving people along (as bga suggested) is important for the health of any organization. And holding on due to loyalty and niceness rather than performance is a recipe for failure.

 

[howieramone]

Face it folks- Tubby is going nowhere except by his choosing. The program is over a barrel with him. Two years to go and there will be no buyout. He's more likely to get a pseudo extension (no buyout with added years for recruiting purposes) than be fired.

So - in my opinion we need to hope for a recovery with Tubby at the helm. Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Finish this year by offering big minutes to Andre Hollins, Coleman, and EE. That's your future. Let's start commiting to them now and see what they can do over the next several games. Live with the mistakes and grow their confidence by backing them.

2. After the season it's time for a staff overhaul. Find the best available recruiter and and offensive mind and hire them on. Get the players on a big time no nonsense summer lifting and conditioning program such that they come back better, stronger players next fall.

3. It's time for a statement of future goals. Without Brewser-like bluster I want to hear that we are going all out to compete for a Big Ten Championship. I want to see some recommitment by our coach. I think there are a couple of future recruits in town who need to hear that as well.

4. The new athletic director and Kaler need to announce that we are going forward with the the practice facility and tie it to the money they are going to gain from the premium seating as well as other fundraising. I don't care how they do it-just get it done. No more excuses.

Tubby can recover in a big way with just a top 5 finish next year. The team will not be young anymore. I would love to see us go after a nasty Juco PF who can give this team some physical leadership if we don't get the miraculous 6th year out of Mbakwe. If he can muster a big year next year we might stand a fighting chance with Jones or Vaughn or both. That's the best hope for the program.

+1

 

[Winnipegopher]

We haven't finished 5th, officially, since 1993. So i guess I agree that Tubby can recover with such a finish, but what has he done in 5 years to make anyone think that's within the realm of possibility?

monson finished fourth in 2004-05

 

[Monty519]

I hope this is not true. I think most here who have been in leadership would say that appropriately moving people along (as bga suggested) is important for the health of any organization. And holding on due to loyalty and niceness rather than performance is a recipe for failure.

Well, to be a little fair, Tubby's pretty much only had success prior to his stop here, so it's not like he had a ton of reasons to fire his assistants in the past. This will be an interesting dynamic going into next year though. Is he willing to do something like that to shake it up? I personally think it would be a good thing, but I'm not Tubby.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Great thing about hoops is how one or two players can change everything in one year.

Yeah, totally agree.

 

[dpodoll68]

Great thing about hoops is how one or two players can change everything in one year.

Exactly. One or two players can change everything, for better or worse. And yet, the Tubby haters ignore Trevor's injury and act like it's no big deal. Teams lose their best player in a generation all the time and come out of it just fine.

 

[Parski1]

Exactly. One or two players can change everything, for better or worse. And yet, the Tubby haters ignore Trevor's injury and act like it's no big deal. Teams lose their best player in a generation all the time and come out of it just fine.

Good take ^

 

[minngg]

Exactly. One or two players can change everything, for better or worse. And yet, the Tubby haters ignore Trevor's injury and act like it's no big deal. Teams lose their best player in a generation all the time and come out of it just fine.

Last season, with the best player in a generation, our coach led us to a 6-12 conference record. The Tubby "lovers" act like that doesn't matter. This year would have been different.

 

[notagopherfan]

Well, to be a little fair, Tubby's pretty much only had success prior to his stop here, so it's not like he had a ton of reasons to fire his assistants in the past. This will be an interesting dynamic going into next year though. Is he willing to do something like that to shake it up? I personally think it would be a good thing, but I'm not Tubby.

I'm serious.. I dont think he's ever fired an assistant. He may have arranged for guys to go elsewhere but he never fired anyone out right and i'm not sure he's even done that. Someone said he surrounds himself with cronies or yes men. He just surrounded himself with people he knew and trusted.

This came up at UK in his last 2 years. Rigot and Hansen just weren't getting it done on the recruiting trail. David Hobbs was going no where, too good a friend and coach to let go. None of these guys came to MN but all landed jobs as assistants. Hobbs I believe became an NBA scout for the Bobcats, don't know if he's still doing that or not though. Tubby did want to bring Saul on staff at UK but UK has a nepitism rule that they weren't willing to wave so he walked to Minnesota. I wouldn't anticipate staff changes unless someone on staff lands a head coaching job(Vince Taylor) or lands an NBA assistant job(Saul)

Fact is, it's pretty hard to sell out of state recruits to play at MN with no practice facility or big time winning tradition. Now maybe playing wide open basketball will help but that remains to be seen but Tubby is not the kind of coach that's going to do that just for the sake of doing it, he'd have to have players he know could do it. Winning is the best thing they can do the next 2 years and I feel like Tubby has the arrow pointing up in that dlirection.

 

[dpodoll68]

Last season, with the best player in a generation, our coach led us to a 6-12 conference record. The Tubby "lovers" act like that doesn't matter. This year would have been different.

Players don't get better year-to-year. Trevor wasn't any better this year than he was last year, in his second year in a system with the same coach, many of the same players, same routine, same city, etc., etc. Nope, he was exactly the same. Thank you for opening my eyes!

And yes, though you think it some sort of insult, I will proudly proclaim that I am a Tubby lover. That is because I am a lover and supporter of the U and all its teams, including the coaches so long as they are the coaches. I root for the coaches to do well, because that means the teams are doing well. I would rather root for success than root for failure because I hate the person and want to be rid of him. Glen Mason in his last few years was a joke in terms of his effort. I still rooted for him because he was the Gopher coach. The second he was gone, it was open season. I have, and will continue to, love Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach, whether that's next month, next year, or next decade. I can start a thread on the front page proclaiming my unconditional and undying love for Tubby so long as he is the Gopher coach. Let me know if that's what you want and I will gladly comply.

 

[minngg]

Players don't get better year-to-year. Trevor wasn't any better this year than he was last year, in his second year in a system with the same coach, many of the same players, same routine, same city, etc., etc. Nope, he was exactly the same. Thank you for opening my eyes!

How old is Trevor? 19?

 

[dpodoll68]

How old is Trevor? 19?

How old is Kevin Love?

How old is Jeremy Lin?

How old is Nikola Pekovic?

How old is DeAndre Jordan?

How old is Danilo Gallinari?

Shall I keep going?

I thought it was generally understood that most players continue to get better until they reach their peak and then age takes its toll, but then again, I'm not a one-track-mind idiot.

 

[Winnipegopher]

Players don't get better year-to-year. Trevor wasn't any better this year than he was last year, in his second year in a system with the same coach, many of the same players, same routine, same city, etc., etc. Nope, he was exactly the same. Thank you for opening my eyes!

Why is Trevor better (Second Team Big Ten on a lousy team) than Humphries (First team All Big Ten on a lousy team), or Rickert (First team All Big Ten on a decent team)?

I like Trevor but teams don't win without better guard play than what we have.

 

[dpodoll68]

Why is Trevor better (Second Team Big Ten on a lousy team) than Humphries (First team All Big Ten on a lousy team), or Rickert (First team All Big Ten on a decent team)?

I like Trevor but teams don't win without better guard play than what we have.

I wasn't talking about 2010-11 Trevor. I was talking about 2011-12 Trevor. He would've easily been First Team All-Big Ten, in contention for Big Ten POY, and possibly a lower-level All-American. Kris put up better scoring stats because he was a black hole on offense, and was also options 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 for scoring. Trevor gets his points within the flow of the offense, and is also a 60% FG shooter as opposed to Humphries' 44%. They were about the same as rebounders (Humphries averaging a little more, but I would need to see the pace statistics to see how many rebounding opportunities each had), and Mbakwe is a much better defender. Humphries as a soph/jr/sr would've almost certainly been better than Trevor is now, but we never had the chance to find out. Give me senior Mbakwe over freshman Humphries any day of the week.

And as for Rickert possibly being better than Mbakwe? Well, I'll give that comment all the consideration it deserves.

 

[Deleted_User]

Bad luck as a precursor to Bad Management

If we calculate the lost sales of merchandise and arena sales of all kinds, and poor fundraising totals for practice facilities and the like, keeping Smith could be the worst thing for this program. 5 years into his regime and a new practice facility is hardly a gleem in the President's eye. Fundraising hasn't come close to sufficiency. Those are all ways of measuring the non performance of Smith. Playing under .500 for another year just adds more insult in paying for this non performance. Yes, yes, yes, he isn't paid to deliver on those metrics, but his actions influence how well they perform. He is a primary catalyst for delivering in these areas. Well, Smith doesn't sell well on Main Street. His accomplishments have been many, except at Minnesota. No Championships. No runner up. Not even an NIT run. Yet, we will debate his merits like we have some positive news to which to balance the equation. So far, the conjecture of his virtue has been his string of bad luck. Not much to brag about in Minnesota for having Tubby at the helm. Would any of you bet that if we gave him an extention of 10 years that he would win a conference championship once in that span? I wouldn't. I wouldn't with Monson, either. I just don't see the march of progress with him. He does not compare to our Robinson, Anderson, Kill (very high potential) or even Lucia. These guys are producing in volumes and with Smith, we only herald his potential based on his coaching at Kentucky. Nobody is beating a path to Williams Arena looking for Tubby. The recruits are not awe inspired by his legend. He is not the prize coach we would have liked upon hiring him.

The fact is that this coach is a lemon. The engine has been rebuilt every year and there is no gain in performance. Monson went to the second round at the dance. Smith at Minnesota has yet to get there. I don't have confidence that next year show better odds of getting there.

 

[minngg]

How old is Kevin Love?

How old is Jeremy Lin?

How old is Nikola Pekovic?

How old is DeAndre Jordan?

How old is Danilo Gallinari?

Shall I keep going?

I thought it was generally understood that most players continue to get better until they reach their peak and then age takes its toll, but then again, I'm not a one-track-mind idiot.

Trevor is 23. He is a fully developed young man. He is older than Kevin Love. He has been in this city for 3 years. he also grew up here.

Your whole life is what ifs and wait til next years. You think being a fan means accepting mediocrity and supporting yuor coach regardless of production. I wish you were my boss. This is big time athletics, this isn't Hamline. Stop with the you are a better fan than me crap. I think I am a better fan than you because I refuse to accept mediocrity and failure and to make excuses for it. So you do your thing and I will do mine. Just stop with the name calling and show some respect. It's only an opinion about a coach, not life and death.

 

[minngg]

If we calculate the lost sales of merchandise and arena sales of all kinds, and poor fundraising totals for practice facilities and the like, keeping Smith could be the worst thing for this program. 5 years into his regime and a new practice facility is hardly a gleem in the President's eye. Fundraising hasn't come close to sufficiency. Those are all ways of measuring the non performance of Smith. Playing under .500 for another year just adds more insult in paying for this non performance. Yes, yes, yes, he isn't paid to deliver on those metrics, but his actions influence how well they perform. He is a primary catalyst for delivering in these areas. Well, Smith doesn't sell well on Main Street. His accomplishments have been many, except at Minnesota. No Championships. No runner up. Not even an NIT run. Yet, we will debate his merits like we have some positive news to which to balance the equation. So far, the conjecture of his virtue has been his string of bad luck. Not much to brag about in Minnesota for having Tubby at the helm. Would any of you bet that if we gave him an extention of 10 years that he would win a conference championship once in that span? I wouldn't. I wouldn't with Monson, either. I just don't see the march of progress with him. He does not compare to our Robinson, Anderson, Kill (very high potential) or even Lucia. These guys are producing in volumes and with Smith, we only herald his potential based on his coaching at Kentucky. Nobody is beating a path to Williams Arena looking for Tubby. The recruits are not awe inspired by his legend. He is not the prize coach we would have liked upon hiring him.

The fact is that this coach is a lemon. The engine has been rebuilt every year and there is no gain in performance. Monson went to the second round at the dance. Smith at Minnesota has yet to get there. I don't have confidence that next year show better odds of getting there.

Get ready to be called a Badger fan, having a pathetic life, having people tell you how to post, being a loser, being a racist, being an idiot. How dare you have an opinion like this?

 

[scher215]

Nm

 

[dpodoll68]

He is older than Kevin Love.

Wrong.

Your whole life is what ifs and wait til next years. You think being a fan means accepting mediocrity and supporting yuor coach regardless of production. I wish you were my boss. This is big time athletics, this isn't Hamline.

Wrong. I am about supporting my team and coach regardless of production. When the time comes for a change, it is made. I don't wish for failure for the coach, because that means the team fails. There is pretty much no way to argue against this.

Stop with the you are a better fan than me crap.

The truth sometimes hurts.

I think I am a better fan than you because I refuse to accept mediocrity and failure and to make excuses for it.

How exactly does one "refuse to accept mediocrity"? Did you stop going to the games? Did you stop watching the games? Did you spend any less time on here bitching about the Gophers? What action items did you actually undertake that constituted a "refusal to accept mediocrity"? All of us will be waiting for a full report.

 

[dpodoll68]

Would any of you bet that if we gave him an extention of 10 years that he would win a conference championship once in that span?

No. But then again, I wouldn't bet on any coach winning a conference championship in basketball at Minnesota within any 10-year time frame. Anyone who would with any time frame shorter than ~25 years is most likely making a very foolish bet. Then again, it is symptomatic of the birthright to conference competitiveness that some have fabricated out of thin air.

 

[howieramone]

If we calculate the lost sales of merchandise and arena sales of all kinds, and poor fundraising totals for practice facilities and the like, keeping Smith could be the worst thing for this program. 5 years into his regime and a new practice facility is hardly a gleem in the President's eye. Fundraising hasn't come close to sufficiency. Those are all ways of measuring the non performance of Smith. Playing under .500 for another year just adds more insult in paying for this non performance. Yes, yes, yes, he isn't paid to deliver on those metrics, but his actions influence how well they perform. He is a primary catalyst for delivering in these areas. Well, Smith doesn't sell well on Main Street. His accomplishments have been many, except at Minnesota. No Championships. No runner up. Not even an NIT run. Yet, we will debate his merits like we have some positive news to which to balance the equation. So far, the conjecture of his virtue has been his string of bad luck. Not much to brag about in Minnesota for having Tubby at the helm. Would any of you bet that if we gave him an extention of 10 years that he would win a conference championship once in that span? I wouldn't. I wouldn't with Monson, either. I just don't see the march of progress with him. He does not compare to our Robinson, Anderson, Kill (very high potential) or even Lucia. These guys are producing in volumes and with Smith, we only herald his potential based on his coaching at Kentucky. Nobody is beating a path to Williams Arena looking for Tubby. The recruits are not awe inspired by his legend. He is not the prize coach we would have liked upon hiring him.

The fact is that this coach is a lemon. The engine has been rebuilt every year and there is no gain in performance. Monson went to the second round at the dance. Smith at Minnesota has yet to get there. I don't have confidence that next year show better odds of getting there.

nm

 

[GophersInIowa]

Get ready to be called a Badger fan, having a pathetic life, having people tell you how to post, being a loser, being a racist, being an idiot. How dare you have an opinion like this?

No different than the way you jump on anyone for saying something positive.

 

[Deleted_User]

Get ready to be called a Badger fan, having a pathetic life, having people tell you how to post, being a loser, being a racist, being an idiot. How dare you have an opinion like this?

Been there. As a graduate of the U, I think calling me a Badger fan would be pathetic.

 

[Gold Vision]

Been there. As a graduate of the U, I think calling me a Badger fan would be pathetic.

I really don't think/care if you are a Badger fan, but unfortunately graduating from the U does not make you exempt from that accusation. Unfortunately I saw kids in my classes every day with Badger gear on. I lived with a few that went to the U but cheered for Wisconsin in everything.

 

[minngg]

No different than the way you jump on anyone for saying something positive.

really? Bump where I have started denegrating anyone on their opinion. I have disagreed with opinions. But I don't get personal with anyone unless they do with me.

 

[Deleted_User]

I really don't think/care if you are a Badger fan, but unfortunately graduating from the U does not make you exempt from that accusation. Unfortunately I saw kids in my classes every day with Badger gear on. I lived with a few that went to the U but cheered for Wisconsin in everything.

It is a free marketplace of ideas. I really have mixed feelings about that on so many different levels.