Tracy Claeys defense

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GopherGangsta said:
None of the current defenders should be on a B10 roster...Clear enough?
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Agree. Fleck still recruiting group of 5 defensive players like he is still at Western Michigan. , take #55 for example, (and look at his 247 profile, he had like no
D1 Scholarships yet we, a Big Ten School gave him one) he always looks lost and a step behind. And if a Linemen gets their hands on him he is toast. He had a nice tackle on the first drive tho....
 

noamfromm said:
Bold claim to lay the fault at the hands of the defense for never being better than 5-3.
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If you are an elite defense year after year. You would probably win more than half your games
 

Rossi lost Claeys recruits, then came in halfway through a season and turned it around, had a great D last year and lost those guys. He inherited Robb Smith's meh recruits...but he's now bringing in 4 star players (1 last year, 3 this year), I think he'll still turn it around.

Sanford inherited great players and he's turned them into a ho-hum offense. 6 play play calling, coaching Tanner to stare down Bateman. The coordinator that should lose his job, tonight, is Sanford.
 

Face The Facts said:
So all of the defensive players need to be replaced?
Or just 8 or 9?
Please be clear on who.
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For me, absolutely nobody has distinguished themselves on any consistent basis.
I do see defensive players from our opponents I wish were on our team.
Coney Durr is usually good. He’ll be gone.
 


Iowa a very solid, well-coached team, offense and defense AND kicking game. They had us backed up much of the game. Also, a lot more variety in play-calling, utilizing more personnel, confusing the Gophers with misdirection at times, QB confident, protected, good running game. They were the better team and the score is accurate.
 

Gopher028 said:
Rossi lost Claeys recruits, then came in halfway through a season and turned it around, had a great D last year and lost those guys. He inherited Robb Smith's meh recruits...but he's now bringing in 4 star players (1 last year, 3 this year), I think he'll still turn it around.

Sanford inherited great players and he's turned them into a ho-hum offense. 6 play play calling, coaching Tanner to stare down Bateman. The coordinator that should lose his job, tonight, is Sanford.
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I’m confused by your opening paragraph. Rossi’s success last year was in very large part due to Claeys recruits.
 


Either people believe Joe Rossi can coach defense or they don't believe he can.

If you don't believe he can, how did he turn things around in 2018 without Winfield playing?
 



Face The Facts said:
Either people believe Joe Rossi can coach defense or they don't believe he can.

If you don't believe he can, how did he turn things around in 2018 without Winfield playing?
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We still had guys like Coughlin, Martin, and Barber. I think Rossi can coach, I don’t even think our defense is so horrible due to just the coaching, it’s more the fact that our players aren’t very good. Look weak, soft, can’t she’s blocks for the life of them. None of them would start for any other BIG schools. Thats goes on recruiting, whoever is doing the defensive recruiting.
 

John Galt said:
It’s more likely that Trump becomes Biden’s VP than for Claeys to be PJ’s defensive coordinator. Please, let it die.
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Good analogy. Made me laugh.
 

Face The Facts said:
Either people believe Joe Rossi can coach defense or they don't believe he can.

If you don't believe he can, how did he turn things around in 2018 without Winfield playing?
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I think he is a decent coach. The scary thing is we had no talent waiting to replace the players we lost. That's recruiting, which is supposedly PJs strength.
 

Some guy said:
If you are an elite defense year after year. You would probably win more than half your games
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I assume you mean half your conference games as otherwise we did win more than half our games.

The defense was routinely around 30th or better in scoring defense during Claeys. We are dickering our terms but to win 8 and 9 games with the offense we had makes me think the defense was pretty special. The defensive let downs were there against Iowa and Penn State in '16 where blown plays late in the games lead to losses; but the defense gave us the chance to win 10 games in multiple seasons while the offense was a laggard
 



GopherGangsta said:
Morgan has regressed.....The only WR that can play will be in the NFL....O line will be worse with graduation...There is no talent on this defense and one more year of experience is not helping that.....Good enough for you?
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I see things differently.

First: almost no matter who you are it is difficult to replace large numbers of starters. Experience actually matters. Athletic ability is not a proxy for experience. The players on our defense look - to my eye - more than capable athletically. But they look inexperienced. They don't play together as a unit, and the units don't play together as a defense. That's normal. Look at LSU. They won the national championship last year. Now they're bad. Why? They have to put a lot of inexperienced players on the field.

Second: Morgan has not regressed. Morgan was in possession of a rare commodity last year - a scheme buster. Two true NFL-caliber number one receivers plus a running game is a scheme buster. There simply is no good scheme to defend that. This is what Morgan had to do last year: (i) count numbers in the box; (ii) if the Gophers outnumbered the defenders in the box, run; (iii) if not, determine which of TJ or RB was doubled, and throw to the other one. That's it. It was simple. PJ admitted it was simple. And it's why 70% of every pass thrown went to either TJ or RB last year. ...Tanner does not possess a scheme buster this year. So now he has to play "real" football and play the QB position the "real" way. That involves a set of skills that he really did not need to exercise last year. He has not regressed, he is being called upon to do more mentally.

Will the defense get better? Yes.

I know fans don't like to hear reality, but I just gave it to you.
 

noamfromm said:
I assume you mean half your conference games as otherwise we did win more than half our games.

The defense was routinely around 30th or better in scoring defense during Claeys. We are dickering our terms but to win 8 and 9 games with the offense we had makes me think the defense was pretty special. The defensive let downs were there against Iowa and Penn State in '16 where blown plays late in the games lead to losses; but the defense gave us the chance to win 10 games in multiple seasons while the offense was a laggard
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Yup.
The team was mediocre
The defense was above average and offense was below average


as I’ve said, I have no problem if people don’t think Fleck is the answer. Bringing back the mediocrity that was the claeys era is not the answer.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I see things differently.

First: almost no matter who you are it is difficult to replace large numbers of starters. Experience actually matters. Athletic ability is not a proxy for experience. The players on our defense look - to my eye - more than capable athletically. But they look inexperienced. They don't play together as a unit, and the units don't play together as a defense. That's normal. Look at LSU. They won the national championship last year. Now they're bad. Why? They have to put a lot of inexperienced players on the field.

Second: Morgan has not regressed. Morgan was in possession of a rare commodity last year - a scheme buster. Two true NFL-caliber number one receivers plus a running game is a scheme buster. There simply is no good scheme to defend that. This is what Morgan had to do last year: (i) count numbers in the box; (ii) if the Gophers outnumbered the defenders in the box, run; (iii) if not, determine which of TJ or RB was doubled, and throw to the other one. That's it. It was simple. PJ admitted it was simple. And it's why 70% of every pass thrown went to either TJ or RB last year. ...Tanner does not possess a scheme buster this year. So now he has to play "real" football and play the QB position the "real" way. That involves a set of skills that he really did not need to exercise last year. He has not regressed, he is being called upon to do more mentally.

Will the defense get better? Yes.

I know fans don't like to hear reality, but I just gave it to you.
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I think that is a pretty spot on analysis of the situation.

I said it in another thread but not as clearly as this.


he is struggling to read coverages post snap. Last year he was reading one key post snap or sometimes none at all.
 

Some guy said:
I think that is a pretty spot on analysis of the situation.

I said it in another thread but not as clearly as this.


he is struggling to read coverages post snap. Last year he was reading one key post snap or sometimes none at all.
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Like every gopher qb from the last 50 years.
 

Some guy said:
Yup.
The team was mediocre
The defense was above average and offense was below average


as I’ve said, I have no problem if people don’t think Fleck is the answer. Bringing back the mediocrity that was the claeys era is not the answer.
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You're all over the place. This thread was all about Claeys defense, which wasn't mediocre. I don't know how you can call the Gopher teams on from 2013-16 mediocre. Two of those teams were one win away from B1G title games, I don't think that is a not very good team
 

noamfromm said:
You're all over the place. This thread was all about Claeys defense, which wasn't mediocre. I don't know how you can call the Gopher teams on from 2013-16 mediocre. Two of those teams were one win away from B1G title games, I don't think that is a not very good team
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Closer to average than to great.

It was an above average defense on an average team


the best season in the Kill/Claeys era was 9-4 second best was 8-5

The second best team of the Kill era won 2 more games than the season that got Mason fired.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I see things differently.

First: almost no matter who you are it is difficult to replace large numbers of starters. Experience actually matters. Athletic ability is not a proxy for experience. The players on our defense look - to my eye - more than capable athletically. But they look inexperienced. They don't play together as a unit, and the units don't play together as a defense. That's normal. Look at LSU. They won the national championship last year. Now they're bad. Why? They have to put a lot of inexperienced players on the field.

Second: Morgan has not regressed. Morgan was in possession of a rare commodity last year - a scheme buster. Two true NFL-caliber number one receivers plus a running game is a scheme buster. There simply is no good scheme to defend that. This is what Morgan had to do last year: (i) count numbers in the box; (ii) if the Gophers outnumbered the defenders in the box, run; (iii) if not, determine which of TJ or RB was doubled, and throw to the other one. That's it. It was simple. PJ admitted it was simple. And it's why 70% of every pass thrown went to either TJ or RB last year. ...Tanner does not possess a scheme buster this year. So now he has to play "real" football and play the QB position the "real" way. That involves a set of skills that he really did not need to exercise last year. He has not regressed, he is being called upon to do more mentally.

Will the defense get better? Yes.

I know fans don't like to hear reality, but I just gave it to you.
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I love your second take. i agree 100%
 


I wish TC had handled things better.

I don't entirely fault him, but he was MIA and just didn't fit the HC role sadly.
 

GopherGangsta said:
None of the current defenders should be on a B10 roster...Clear enough?
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That's a pretty big claim considering Barber, Martin, Howard, and Thomas were all around 0.84-0.85 composite recruits. Higher rated recruits on the current defensive roster include: Teague, Smith, Oliver, Nubin, Cheney, Schad, Gordon, Willis, Harris, Anderson, Carter, Richter, Brown, Joyner, Burns, Striggow, Logan-Redding, Dixon, Keys, Finnessey, Dubar and Glaze. You can also include every single class of 2021 commit (on both sides of the ball).

Talent and potential are unquestionably going in the right direction. Experience and execution are killing us.
 

SixBySix said:
That's a pretty big claim considering Barber, Martin, Howard, and Thomas were all around 0.84-0.85 composite recruits. Higher rated recruits on the current defensive roster include: Teague, Smith, Oliver, Nubin, Cheney, Schad, Gordon, Willis, Harris, Anderson, Carter, Richter, Brown, Joyner, Burns, Striggow, Logan-Redding, Dixon, Keys, Finnessey, Dubar and Glaze. You can also include every single class of 2021 commit (on both sides of the ball).

Talent and potential are unquestionably going in the right direction. Experience and execution are killing us.
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Also many of them were starters or major contributors on the team last year.
 

Word said:
I think he is a decent coach. The scary thing is we had no talent waiting to replace the players we lost. That's recruiting, which is supposedly PJs strength.
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Or they can't successfully develop the talent they recruited...
 

GopherGangsta said:
Morgan has regressed....The only WR that can play will be in the NFL....O line will be worse with graduation...There is no talent on this defense and one more year of experience is not helping that.....Good enough for you?
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Dude, I know you're disappointed, but take a step back.
  1. Morgan could easily go back to what he was last year. He clearly has the talent. Do you think it was all luck last year?
  2. CAB has made a lot of big plays for this team. We have very little idea what Jackson and Emilien can do, but we know a LOT of schools wanted both of them to come play WR for them.
  3. There is plenty of talent on the defense. WHy do you think another year of experience (and coaching, scrimmaging, weight training, film study, etc.) won't help? Cheney, Anderson, Carter, Gordon, Willis, Nubin, and others are getting their first game action during a year with a shortened off-season and fall camp. All of them were heavily recruited to play at other programs. Do you think Fleck whiffed on every one of them? Or do you think it's possible they're very talented but wouldn't have seen the field for 3 or 4 years at other programs...and then been fine? Perhaps the same might happen here?
 

SixBySix said:
That's a pretty big claim considering Barber, Martin, Howard, and Thomas were all around 0.84-0.85 composite recruits. Higher rated recruits on the current defensive roster include: Teague, Smith, Oliver, Nubin, Cheney, Schad, Gordon, Willis, Harris, Anderson, Carter, Richter, Brown, Joyner, Burns, Striggow, Logan-Redding, Dixon, Keys, Finnessey, Dubar and Glaze. You can also include every single class of 2021 commit (on both sides of the ball).

Talent and potential are unquestionably going in the right direction. Experience and execution are killing us.
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This is what I'm choosing to believe right now. Trust me, I'm SICK about this season. Like most people here, I had high hopes. I foolishly thought the raw talent on D would be enough, but it's clearly not the case. But make no mistake -- the staff has brought in a LOT of talent, especially on D.
 

What happen to the LB from Anoka? He played in one game. I know he won like 1 or 2 games his whole HS career at Anoka.
 

Face The Facts said:
Either people believe Joe Rossi can coach defense or they don't believe he can.

If you don't believe he can, how did he turn things around in 2018 without Winfield playing?
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I've coached football since graduating college in the 90s...all but 2 have been HS. I am a DC/LB coach. We gave up 5.8 ppg one year; 30.3 ppg the next; and 9.7 the year after. What do you think the difference was?

It's not so much your Xs and Os; it's your Jims and Joes.
(That's true more so for HS than college b/c you play the hand your dealt year to year. However, I think that rings very true for this squad!)
 
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SixBySix said:
That's a pretty big claim considering Barber, Martin, Howard, and Thomas were all around 0.84-0.85 composite recruits. Higher rated recruits on the current defensive roster include: Teague, Smith, Oliver, Nubin, Cheney, Schad, Gordon, Willis, Harris, Anderson, Carter, Richter, Brown, Joyner, Burns, Striggow, Logan-Redding, Dixon, Keys, Finnessey, Dubar and Glaze. You can also include every single class of 2021 commit (on both sides of the ball).

Talent and potential are unquestionably going in the right direction. Experience and execution are killing us.
Click to expand...

I loved what I saw from Oliver last year, but he's sitting the year out. He, imo, will be a playmaker...he's a quick twitch hitter and can move!
 
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