Time to start looking fora new head coach

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builtbadgers said:
That contract was drawn up by a fool. There are a hundred better coaches that do not have that. That is the highest buyout i have ever heard of for a college basketball coach.
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I think that is pretty much a given.
 

Drawn up by NT but executed after he left by kaler and goetz
 

DeathClutch said:
Pitino's buyout is close to $7 million according to Doogie. So everybody better get used to the idea of Pitino being back next year.
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Oh my. The level of stupidity at the U of m should not surprise me, yet they aways find a way.
 

builtbadgers said:
That contract was drawn up by a fool. There are a hundred better coaches that do not have that. That is the highest buyout i have ever heard of for a college basketball coach.
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Or it was likely done because both parties involved saw this year coming.
 



dtrain19 said:
Where is the figure of $7 million coming from?
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I believe he is entitled to half of his remaining salary plus supplementary compensation, if he is fired without just cause. It also says in his contract that payments would cease if/when he is employed in a similar position.
 


DeathClutch said:
I believe he is entitled to half of his remaining salary plus supplementary compensation, if he is fired without just cause. It also says in his contract that payments would cease if/when he is employed in a similar position.
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i think it would be paid out a bit north of $1M per year through the extension - so NT/Kaler/Goetz betting he lands another job so we'd never reach the $7M
the amendment for the extension also increased RP's buyout to the U if he tries to leave

NT may have had character issues but he did have a strong bball background. No doubt he (NT) thought the ad's office could help RP succeed. With NT gone RP may be more on his own.
 





DeathClutch said:
Pitino's buyout is close to $7 million according to Doogie. So everybody better get used to the idea of Pitino being back next year.
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My God. How does that happen? Utter incompetence by the AD.
 

howeda7 said:
My God. How does that happen? Utter incompetence by the AD.
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Yeah, You usually don't worry about firing a guy after the first year of his new extension(do I have my timeline right on this?). I would bet that to be the case anyway.
 

Tim1406 said:
Yeah, You usually don't worry about firing a guy after the first year of his new extension(do I have my timeline right on this?). I would bet that to be the case anyway.
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Often you do. See Brewster, Tim. Just because you do an extension, doesn't mean you have to increase the size of the buyout. Even Joel Maturi knew that.

I was not Joel's biggest fan :cool: but Teague has succeeded in ensuring that history will treat him much more kindly than it initially appeared.
 



howeda7 said:
Often you do. See Brewster, Tim. Just because you do an extension, doesn't mean you have to increase the size of the buyout. Even Joel Maturi knew that.

I was not Joel's biggest fan :cool: but Teague has succeeded in ensuring that history will treat him much more kindly than it initially appeared.
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Dictionary said:
often
[aw-fuh n, of-uh n; awf-tuh n, of-]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Word Origin
adverb
1.
many times; frequently:
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You might be confused.
 

TABinMO said:
In his first 3 years at Duke, Coach K was 38-47. I suppose some fans were calling for his head! They are probably glad they didn't succeed. Pitino has some promising players joining the program next year. He should be given the chance to see what he can do with them. Now, if we can get Coach K to come here I might change my mind!
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Sorry but that argument makes no logical sense. Are you trying to infer that Richard Pitino is going to become as successful as Coach K?

The question I have for the supporters of Pitino is what is the attraction to him as the coach? Is it the development of the players? The fun style of play that we get to watch? Is it the defense we play? Is it the apathy in the program right now? What has he done to deserve a 4th year?

I'm not saying to fire him in the middle of the season....that would be stupid...but this team might not win the Northern Sun Conference.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Sorry but that argument makes no logical sense. Are you trying to infer that Richard Pitino is going to become as successful as Coach K? The question I have for the supporters of Pitino is what is the attraction to him as the coach? Is it the development of the players? The fun style of play that we get to watch? Is it the defense we play? Is it the apathy in the program right now? What has he done to deserve a 4th year? I'm not saying to fire him in the middle of the season....that would be stupid...but this team might not win the Northern Sun Conference.
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While I'm not rah rah for Pitino. I do think he should have next year for a few reasons. Great recruiting class, good transfers coming in, Jordan Murphy, for once I'd like the U to not fire a coach every few years when things get tough and to support the coach for once and not pay yet another buyout and yet another coaching search, Pitino is young and can get better so while the B1G isn't great training grounds it isn't like he's a finished product yet and he did have some pretty good mentors.

Not great reasons, I know, but it's tough to have great reasons right now. That's just my argument for keeping him one more year. Could also add in no permanent AD to make the hire, but that's not really Pitino specific.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Sorry but that argument makes no logical sense. Are you trying to infer that Richard Pitino is going to become as successful as Coach K?

The question I have for the supporters of Pitino is what is the attraction to him as the coach? Is it the development of the players? The fun style of play that we get to watch? Is it the defense we play? Is it the apathy in the program right now? What has he done to deserve a 4th year?

I'm not saying to fire him in the middle of the season....that would be stupid...but this team might not win the Northern Sun Conference.
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For me it's based on the set up of the recruiting and how he has built the team for next year. I would hate to cut the cord before he is able to see year 4 play out with the 2 transfers he accepted for next year along with one of the best recruits we've had in a long time. I'm not sure what to make of Lynch but when you bring in a former SEC player of the week you know you're getting a guy with talent(can it transfer to consistent production?). I am just saying let him have a chance to show what he planned(which is a defense with 6'7" or taller players from the 2-5 and at least 3 really good players; Mason, Coffey, Murphy).


If his plan fails, then cut him then. I'm not sure it makes for any more long term damage to the program, giving him one more year, than firing Pitino now could (argument here is that the gopher job is more attractive in 15 months than in 3 as one poster put it for potential hires).
 

Tim1406 said:
For me it's based on the set up of the recruiting and how he has built the team for next year. I would hate to cut the cord before he is able to see year 4 play out with the 2 transfers he accepted for next year along with one of the best recruits we've had in a long time. I'm not sure what to make of Lynch but when you bring in a former SEC player of the week you know you're getting a guy with talent(can it transfer to consistent production?). I am just saying let him have a chance to show what he planned(which is a defense with 6'7" or taller players from the 2-5 and at least 3 really good players; Mason, Coffey, Murphy).


If his plan fails, then cut him then. I'm not sure it makes for any more long term damage to the program, giving him one more year, than firing Pitino now could (argument here is that the gopher job is more attractive in 15 months than in 3 as one poster put it for potential hires).
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+1
 

GophersInIowa said:
People also need to realize that just because not everyone thinks Pitino should be fired right now doesn't mean they don't have high expectations. Many of the same people here saying he should be given next year were also okay with the Tubby Smith firing. I'm in that boat. I feel like we should be able to be better than what Tubby brought in his six seasons. If very little changes with Pitino next year, then it is time to move on with him as well.
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Pitino has no chance to match what Tubby did in 6 seasons at the U....that is the problem. I guess that is one of the things that is so frustrating. Besides that, most of these same pro-Pitino posters on this board were so anti-Tubby his last year it was sickening....and now they are the ones talking patience?!?!? Well that is kind of hard because I look around and see what Collins has done at Northwestern and ALSO what Tubby has done at Texas Tech in the last three seasons. They both have their programs in so much better shape than our program even though they came into situations that were much worse than what Pitino came into at Minnesota. Then Pitino talks about the challenges of coaching at Minnesota?!?!? He doesn't have half the challenges they have in Lubbock or Northwestern.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Pitino has no chance to match what Tubby did in 6 seasons at the U....that is the problem. I guess that is one of the things that is so frustrating. Besides that, most of these same pro-Pitino posters on this board were so anti-Tubby his last year it was sickening....and now they are the ones talking patience?!?!? Well that is kind of hard because I look around and see what Collins has done at Northwestern and ALSO what Tubby has done at Texas Tech in the last three seasons. They both have their programs in so much better shape than our program even though they came into situations that were much worse than what Pitino came into at Minnesota. Then Pitino talks about the challenges of coaching at Minnesota?!?!? He doesn't have half the challenges they have in Lubbock or Northwestern.
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1) I was very pro Tubby (so much so BarnBurner kindly referred to me as Saul and Donna) and am still pro Pitino. I am pro Gophers coaches. Which is why it's also good it's not my job to hire and fire coaches.

2) no chance is untrue, very small chance would make more sense. If Pitino goes dancing the next 3 years he will match Tubby in NCAA appearances.
 

scher215 said:
1) I was very pro Tubby (so much so BarnBurner kindly referred to me as Saul and Donna) and am still pro Pitino. I am pro Gophers coaches. Which is why it's also good it's not my job to hire and fire coaches.

2) no chance is untrue, very small chance would make more sense. If Pitino goes dancing the next 3 years he will match Tubby in NCAA appearances.
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I'd argue if we goes dancing next year, we'll likely go dancing the year after that (Mason, Coffey, Fitz, Murphy, Lynch would be together for 2 years as starters) then it's up to what players develop and which ones don't as well as recruiting as to if he goes dancing 3 years in a row (which would be 3 in 6 years with a 3 year streak going). Which is a reason to see how his year 4 plays out.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Pitino has no chance to match what Tubby did in 6 seasons at the U....that is the problem. I guess that is one of the things that is so frustrating. Besides that, most of these same pro-Pitino posters on this board were so anti-Tubby his last year it was sickening....and now they are the ones talking patience?!?!? Well that is kind of hard because I look around and see what Collins has done at Northwestern and ALSO what Tubby has done at Texas Tech in the last three seasons. They both have their programs in so much better shape than our program even though they came into situations that were much worse than what Pitino came into at Minnesota. Then Pitino talks about the challenges of coaching at Minnesota?!?!? He doesn't have half the challenges they have in Lubbock or Northwestern.
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You said it yourself in your post. All three are different situations. Both Texas Tech and Northwestern went full rebuild, while Pitino went for the win now approach, and brought in guys like Mathieu, King, and Morris, instead of bringing in Freshmen, who were farther away from contributing. He has had some misses in recruiting as well, which is partly why we are in this situation, but you an see the recruiting is getting better, which is a big piece of the puzzle.
 

scher215 said:
While I'm not rah rah for Pitino. I do think he should have next year for a few reasons. Great recruiting class, good transfers coming in, Jordan Murphy, for once I'd like the U to not fire a coach every few years when things get tough and to support the coach for once and not pay yet another buyout and yet another coaching search, Pitino is young and can get better so while the B1G isn't great training grounds it isn't like he's a finished product yet and he did have some pretty good mentors.

Not great reasons, I know, but it's tough to have great reasons right now. That's just my argument for keeping him one more year. Could also add in no permanent AD to make the hire, but that's not really Pitino specific.
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I understand we are supposed to have a good class coming in (I heard that this time last year too by the way)....mostly because we got Coffey....but most of the newcomers next year are (Lynch, Hurt and Coffey) Minnesota kids and would probably be going to the U no matter who was coaching. Besides the Big 3, I believe Pitino missed on two Minnesota kids he should have gotten (Macura and Illikainen). I believe if he would have recruited them properly they both would be at Minnesota. I do get your point on Murphy though...I just don't feel one player should be the reason to keep an ineffective coach.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I understand we are supposed to have a good class coming in (I heard that this time last year too by the way)....mostly because we got Coffey....but most of the newcomers next year are (Lynch, Hurt and Coffey) Minnesota kids and would probably be going to the U no matter who was coaching. Besides the Big 3, I believe Pitino missed on two Minnesota kids he should have gotten (Macura and Illikainen). I believe if he would have recruited them properly they both would be at Minnesota. I do get your point on Murphy though...I just don't feel one player should be the reason to keep an ineffective coach.
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You can feel that way. But one player isn't may argument see both my posts above.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Pitino has no chance to match what Tubby did in 6 seasons at the U....that is the problem. I guess that is one of the things that is so frustrating.
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What if Pitino's team narrowly misses the tournament next year, but then finishes in the top 6 of the conference and makes a sweet 16 run the following year with a senior heavy team? Along with that he continues to have solid recruiting classes. Then would this year be worth it? Even though he'd have fewer tournament appearances, he would have accomplished two things Tubby didn't. Would that make him better than Tubby? I would say yes.

That's a lot of projecting, but I think it's possible. It all comes down to how the team performs next year, and Pitino deserves a chance to coach that team.
 

Tim1406 said:
For me it's based on the set up of the recruiting and how he has built the team for next year. I would hate to cut the cord before he is able to see year 4 play out with the 2 transfers he accepted for next year along with one of the best recruits we've had in a long time. I'm not sure what to make of Lynch but when you bring in a former SEC player of the week you know you're getting a guy with talent(can it transfer to consistent production?). I am just saying let him have a chance to show what he planned(which is a defense with 6'7" or taller players from the 2-5 and at least 3 really good players; Mason, Coffey, Murphy).


If his plan fails, then cut him then. I'm not sure it makes for any more long term damage to the program, giving him one more year, than firing Pitino now could (argument here is that the gopher job is more attractive in 15 months than in 3 as one poster put it for potential hires).
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They better be a lot better next year to get a year 5....not squeeking into the NIT. I also think the lack of interest in the program is alarming...that's why I would strongly consider making a change after this season. A $7 million buyout is a little concerning though...God Teague was worthless.

After last year I said the most important coach in Men's Athletic Department was Kill and that Pitino was very replaceable. I don't go to a ton of football games...but I went to a few football games when Brewster was coach and it was awful...I went to the TCU and Michigan games this year and they were awesome. I'm a bigger basketball guy and have gone to many games for over 40 years. It was right there with the Twins and Vikings. Today I was offered tickets for free and I told the person no. I didn't want to waste money for parking to watch the game in person. Just five years ago I would have never believed I would ever say something like that. Believe me...if I'm saying that....there are a lot more people like me saying that....and it's not because I'm old and don't want to go out in the cold.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
What if Pitino's team narrowly misses the tournament next year, but then finishes in the top 6 of the conference and makes a sweet 16 run the following year with a senior heavy team? Along with that he continues to have solid recruiting classes. Then would this year be worth it? Even though he'd have fewer tournament appearances, he would have accomplished two things Tubby didn't. Would that make him better than Tubby? I would say yes.

That's a lot of projecting, but I think it's possible. It all comes down to how the team performs next year, and Pitino deserves a chance to coach that team.
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What have you seen from Pitino and these Gophers to make these projections? You can make your argument about every coach in sports who gets fired. What if Tubby had a good 7th year and had gotten the Big 3 to come to Minnesota. What if Les Steckel would win 12 games his second year. What if Chip Kelly wins the NFC East next year and the Super Bowl the following year. I could go on and on about every coach who has ever been fired. I think both you and Tim believe in something that just isn't going to happen. Yeah it's possible....but only slightly better than winning the Power Ball last Wednesday.
 

ethomasp31 said:
They better be a lot better next year to get a year 5....not squeeking into the NIT. I also think the lack of interest in the program is alarming...that's why I would strongly consider making a change after this season. A $7 million buyout is a little concerning though...God Teague was worthless.

After last year I said the most important coach in Men's Athletic Department was Kill and that Pitino was very replaceable. I don't go to a ton of football games...but I went to a few football games when Brewster was coach and it was awful...I went to the TCU and Michigan games this year and they were awesome. I'm a bigger basketball guy and have gone to many games for over 40 years. It was right there with the Twins and Vikings. Today I was offered tickets for free and I told the person no. I didn't want to waste money for parking to watch the game in person. Just five years ago I would have never believed I would ever say something like that. Believe me...if I'm saying that....there are a lot more people like me saying that....and it's not because I'm old and don't want to go out in the cold.
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Yeah, I understand exactly what you are saying.
 

ethomasp31 said:
What have you seen from Pitino and these Gophers to make these projections? You can make your argument about every coach in sports who gets fired. What if Tubby had a good 7th year and had gotten the Big 3 to come to Minnesota. What if Les Steckel would win 12 games his second year. What if Chip Kelly wins the NFC East next year and the Super Bowl the following year. I could go on and on about every coach who has ever been fired. I think both you and Tim believe in something that just isn't going to happen. Yeah it's possible....but only slightly better than winning the Power Ball last Wednesday.
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Because he has 2 transfers that could start along with a top 20 recruiting class for next year. Plus the majority of this year's players are Freshman and Sophomores who need to and will develop over the next 3-4 years. You don't win with a bunch of Freshman and Sophomore 3* recruits. You can win with Junior and Seniors who are 3* recruits especially if you have a few 4* mixed in.
 

ethomasp31 said:
They better be a lot better next year to get a year 5....not squeeking into the NIT. I also think the lack of interest in the program is alarming...that's why I would strongly consider making a change after this season. A $7 million buyout is a little concerning though...God Teague was worthless.
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And here is the last reason to not fire Pitino this year. Unless you can find a booster to pay for it all (and good luck with that) I don't think you should fire him now. I'd let it play out 1 more year(and let Pitino make his case with year 4) because of this alone
 

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