This team is fun on paper, but why does it look so bad? | Gopherhole

ecoperson

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Defensive efficiency is a measure of points given up per possession. It does not matter if you're "gritty" on defense if you're giving up a lot of points. That gritty team from last year was ranked 142nd on defense, next to last in the B1G. That's something that rhymes with gritty meaning akin to excrement.

The point should not be to be merely gritty, but actually effective. The numbers do not lie.
To be clear... I am not trying to refute or argue with you. I liked the fact that you introduced some additional variables.

You asked what they were aiming for and I simply provided the word that Johnson used to describe their play. I followed by saying that this year's squad has yet to show that grit. With Thorson on staff, I expected this year's team to perform better defensively. Let's see if they can pull it together.
 

ecoperson

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The games the gophers win Will be the games the 3s drop. Expect last year and every Pitino year to be repeated.
Sadly, this is/has been true for many D-1 teams. Players often pay too much attention to the 3 point line instead of probing the defense to find the best shot or passing angle. Players should need only be aware of the 3 point line when they are preparing to receive a kick out. Too many players have become enamored with the step back 3 which is only effective for the top 1% of players in the world.

One of the most disappointing aspects of this year's team is their lack of defensive intensity. THAT is a key element if you are going to be successful when the shots aren't falling.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I am glad to hear that you are not jumping ship. We need the die hard fans.

What would you do differently to improve their play? And why do you feel that the coaches aren't doing this?

They need more B1G caliber guards, ones with speed and quickness who can handle the ball, score, and play D. Every quality team has at least 4 of these, and currently we have 1 who I think is capable in Carrington. Next year we hopefully add one more in Christie, that still leaves us 2 short. I don't think Cooper would play much for the majority of other B1G schools. He's a good passer and ball handler, but that's about it.

Their defense can't handle teams with legitimate guards, which is 80% of their remaining schedule, and why they struggle to score. I also agree with other posters that have commented about how out of shape this team looks. Roster construction leading to the inability to play defense and being out of shape are all massive red flags for this coaching staff.
 
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Crappie

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They need more B1G caliber guards, ones with speed and quickness who can handle the ball, score, and play D. Every quality team has at least 4 of these, and currently we have 1 who I think is capable in Carrington. Next year we hopefully add one more in Christie, that still leaves us 2 short. I don't think Cooper would play much for the majority of other B1G schools. He's a good passer and ball handler, but that's about it.

Their lack of guards their defense can't handle teams with legitimate guards, which is 80% of their remaining schedule, and why they struggle to score. I also agree with other posters that have commented about how out of shape this team looks. Roster construction leading to the inability to play defense and being out of shape are all massive red flags for this coaching staff.
I agree. Some fans here use guard and wing interchangeably but I like a zakai zeigler type. Going to be very tough moving forward for Mn guard/wings.
 

formerlybis

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One of the most disappointing aspects of this year's team is their lack of defensive intensity. THAT is a key element if you are going to be successful when the shots aren't falling.

There's a saying that "speed is only useful if you know where you're heading." Is there an actual system being put in place or is this "grittiness" (which is a nonsense, subjective term) the entire point?
 


Gopherfan84

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There's a saying that "speed is only useful if you know where you're heading." Is there an actual system being put in place or is this "grittiness" (which is a nonsense, subjective term) the entire point?
We play 1/2 court gap defense.
 

Roland Brooks

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Good thing Holloman wasn’t in the So. Cal tournament he might not of got the ball across half court…
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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He’s not used any of these to excuse his losing season. He has state why he constructed the roster the way he has.

If the roster was well constructed would they be losing and requiring patience? I like the length and I like the guards we’ve added so far personally, but we have a difference in philosophies on what is and isn’t guard play so I can see your issue there.


We haven’t defended well enough at all yet. Totally agree and hope that it improves otherwise we will be a weakling Wednesday team easily. I don’t remember Tubbys teams having poor guards. I thought Nolan, Hoffarber, Cobbs, Joseph, Hollins, and others were good. The year when it was bad is when Joseph left and Nolan got in trouble for academics. No B1G team can lose that and be ok.
For your bottom comment, those are bad guards
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Cobbs was a Cousy finalist. Yes we haven’t had a PG on that level. Just cause he was a mid 3 star recruit doesn’t take away how good he became. Royce was the best recruit we’ve had since Humphries if you want to use rankings. he ran point for ISU and was going to do so here. Just cause he was tall doesn’t mean he wasn’t one. He brought it up in HS too. So yes from a production and talent standpoint, they were the two best PG recruits we’ve had. It sucks we didn’t reap the rewards of it here. Some of that can be on Tubby, some of it was bad luck/bad choices. PG woes/bad luck can be attributed to Tubbys struggles, but he recruited the position well. PG play wasn’t our killer imo anyways, offensive system? Sure, not enough scoring on the wing? Yeah.
That’s like saying Ben Simmons is a pg. he’s a point forward with multiple other guards on the floor who also bring it up
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Now you are worried about some players being so good that they leave early? You are the sort that will win the lottery but then complain about the taxes!
Payne is not an NBA player, get that out of your head. He’s 6’9”, not super mobile, and can’t space the floor. Those guys are a dim a dozen.

He will be a good college player, but you’re dreaming if you think a) he will be an nba player, and b) he leaves early for the NBA
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I’ll plan on January 1 for the next Otzelberger, Shrewsberry, Ben, Smith comparison.

Will start a separate thread so it’s not intertwined with this one.
I’d love him here, but let’s not act like he’s a all B1G starting PG yet. He’s a nice player but he won’t dominate a game or be a big difference for us right now. He’ll defend on ball better than Cooper, offensively he’ll give less.
He would be the best point guard we’ve had play on Williams floor as a gopher in years. Nate Mason was really good but lacked elite speed needed to drive and kick.

Imagine Cooper attempting to stay in front of him in practice.
 


Gopherfan84

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That’s like saying Ben Simmons is a pg. he’s a point forward with multiple other guards on the floor who also bring it up
Simmons was the main person bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. Magic Johnson must’ve been a point forward too?
 



Gopherfan84

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Ben Simmons is currently the backup center on the nets btw
Sure that certainly can be true now, but does it change the fact that he played PG (by pretty much everyone who still goes by positions) at all his other stops?
 





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