This isn't going as planned

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MaroonShaft said:
What’s that little pizza place called that’s across from msg (more than one I know). It has one of the best slices according to Slice Harvester. Damn good slice. I always snag one. Can’t remember the name at the moment
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Sbarro? JK

Maybe Suprema? I’ve had their slice…very good.
 















I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
 



We should’ve gotten in over Illinois that year. I’m still pissed!
 

EG#9 said:
I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
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so to be clear, July wasn't too early to panic but December is too early to be excited and we should wait and see?
 

EG#9 said:
I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
Click to expand...
Funny, many didn't wait to trash the hire and players pulled together. Completely different situation Pitino's first year. That team was made up of players who won 21 games the year before and made the tournament.
 

EG#9 said:
I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
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You ask for people to be patient, but you wasted no time to say that "things aren't going as planned..." Asking everyone to take a breath, but just kind of lobbing it in there that "I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22"... unreal. You need to take a breath, enjoy overachieving for once, and treat this for what it is; sports!
 

I posted on page 10.

Ben has proved me wrong on how well his roster is responding to the challenges and the level of effort he's getting out of his players.

Much more reason for optimism than before with the team playing so disciplined.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Funny, many didn't wait to trash the hire and players pulled together. Completely different situation Pitino's first year. That team was made up of players who won 21 games the year before and made the tournament.
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I think many people trashed the hire as an indictment of the administration and university more than Johnson.

I am on record being okay with Johnson over Smith and medved.


Although I was disappointed in university because those three being the likeliest tells me the university had no interest in going to get a less risky hire for more money. I still think the roster isn’t good enough to win much in the big ten. When teams come in with good plans against us im not sure we are going to have an answer. So far I’ve been totally wrong and that’s awesome. But we shouldn’t even begin to judge Johnson negatively until year 3. Right now I’ve got good vibes about him. He has team playing better than their talent IMO…which is a sign of a good coach.
 

Juicer said:
You ask for people to be patient, but you wasted no time to say that "things aren't going as planned..." Asking everyone to take a breath, but just kind of lobbing it in there that "I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22"... unreal. You need to take a breath, enjoy overachieving for once, and treat this for what it is; sports!
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He is setting up the "I told you so", a safe bet with MN sports but not very fun.
 

EG#9 said:
I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
Click to expand...
Nobody is giving them the Natty! We are just enjoying the success and pointing out some of the Chicken Littles.
 

Some guy said:
I think many people trashed the hire as an indictment of the administration and university more than Johnson.

I am on record being okay with Johnson over Smith and medved.


Although I was disappointed in university because those three being the likeliest tells me the university had no interest in going to get a less risky hire for more money. I still think the roster isn’t good enough to win much in the big ten. When teams come in with good plans against us im not sure we are going to have an answer. So far I’ve been totally wrong and that’s awesome. But we shouldn’t even begin to judge Johnson negatively until year 3. Right now I’ve got good vibes about him. He has team playing better than their talent IMO…which is a sign of a good coach.
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I agree....once teams start to try against us and beat us we will probably start to struggle....
 

ethomasp31 said:
I agree....once teams start to try against us and beat us we will probably start to struggle....
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Yep, that has to be the case...no teams so far have been trying to beat the Gophs. Good grief, really?
 


EG#9 said:
I stand behind that entire post as it had to do with roster construction. I actually said I liked guys on this team. If this team does turn out to have a good year it will be because guys I thought could be "4-7" are actually capable of being the best guys on a good team. Those guys being Battle and Willis. I am still very skeptical of the recruiting for '22 and beyond and we need to find multiple transfers to play major roles next year. In addition to Battle and Willis I have been pleasantly surprised by my (EARLY) thoughts on the coaching which I always said was an unknown due to there literally being no track record. The Iowa State team I mentioned has their entire fanbase engaged and packing their building and is ranked in the top 15...and I am not sure they are better than the Gophers because it's early so...

Can we PLEASE wait on this?

The year was 2013-14 and it was Richard Pitino's first season. The Gophers played a surprisingly competitve game early in the season against a top 10 Syracuse team. They beat FSU in the Big Ten/ACC challenge. Later in the year came home wins over ranked Ohio State and Wisconsin teams.

I remember being really impressed. Mo Walker looked like a wasted scholarship for two years before Pitino and now he's in shape and is a factor for us! Mathieu was a great late find for a PG and has been a huge boost to this team. Nobody expected us to be good and the NCAA tournament looked like a real possiblity. A bad home loss to Northwestern by one where a Mathieu layup didn't beat the buzzer and a triple OT loss at Purdue...win those and they finish 10-8 in conference play. If the NCAA didn't screw us on Buckles transfer we'd easily have been in the tournament! PF was the black hole position for this team. Then they go to the NIT and win it all. They were so beat up they had to bring Oto out of medical retirement (I think?) to play in the Garden.

That season looked promising at a far later date than this one has. It still ended on a high note even if it went downhill at a crucial point in the season. That was arguably the most impressed I was by a Pitino coached team in 8 years ( it was either that or year 4 and I was one of the very few who thought they could be good in year 4). Pitino was 4-3 in the Big Ten after beating Wisconsin at home that first year...and his overall conference record would never be above .500 again. He ended up as one of the worst coaches in the history of the Big Ten.

This takes nothing away from the fantastic start to this season and very encouraging road wins over Mississippi State and Michigan. Be excited! Praise Ben! Praise Dave, Jason, and Marcus! Praise the players especially the guys playing 35 every night!

But also take a breath. We've seen many a Februrary collapse over the last decade plus and we haven't even made it through December!
Click to expand...
The similarity to this year is that they overachieved with a cobbled-together roster. They almost beat Michigan State on the road, for pete's sake! I was high as a kite after that NIT final and thought big things were in the Gophers' future. Richard and his staff outcoached Larry Brown in that game!

So point taken that the proof will be in a more long-term pudding. I still wonder why, with all the good signs in that first year, Pitino didn't turn out to be a better long-term coach. I mean, the specifics are obvious: staff and roster turnover, roster mismanagement, recruiting mistakes and misses, recruiting bad-character guys. Maybe he doesn't have the makeup for sustainability--either ability-wise or character-wise. He didn't connect well with the local basketball community, which might not be fatal, but you're hopping around on one leg with a hand tied behind your back. Maybe he seemed humble on the outside but was arrogant and prideful in private. Those things are the downfall of a lot of people. He somehow failed to see the talent and potential in players like McKinley Wright--abilities that most of us here saw clearly with our eyes. I don't think he would have recruited Gabe K if Ben Johnson hadn't practically begged him to. All that sounds like hubris to me.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I agree....once teams start to try against us and beat us we will probably start to struggle....
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Nice job proving your illiteracy if that’s what you really read.

Not having a good plan =\= not trying


For instance…going 3/18 from 3 when your opponents 2 biggest weaknesses are size and depth might not be a good plan IMO. Maybe it wasn’t the plan. But it was either a bad plan or bad execution to be chucking that much when they aren’t falling.

No doubt in my mind Michigan was trying. No doubt in my mind some credit for forcing 3s.
No doubt in my mind their coach knows it isn’t the best plan in the world.
 
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It's certainly worthy to point out that early returns on prior coaches have usually been good.

Monson made the best of a bad situation in year 1 (more talented than this group but a bigger mess to clean up) they pulled off a couple big upsets before Pryzbilla quit.

Tubby went from 9-22 to 20 wins.

Pitino was a tipped basket against NW away from an NCAA bid and won the NIT.

Ben is virtually assured of surpassing our expectations in year one at this point. By how much? We'll see. Knock on wood to stay healthy.

The other thing is that the fundamentals seem more solid. Strong defense. Virtually no turnovers. Low fouls. Is that master coaching or a one-off super veteran roster? Probably both but in what proportion?
 

Bad Gopher said:
The similarity to this year is that they overachieved with a cobbled-together roster. They almost beat Michigan State on the road, for pete's sake! I was high as a kite after that NIT final and thought big things were in the Gophers' future. Richard and his staff outcoached Larry Brown in that game!

So point taken that the proof will be in a more long-term pudding. I still wonder why, with all the good signs in that first year, Pitino didn't turn out to be a better long-term coach. I mean, the specifics are obvious: staff and roster turnover, roster mismanagement, recruiting mistakes and misses, recruiting bad-character guys. Maybe he doesn't have the makeup for sustainability--either ability-wise or character-wise. He didn't connect well with the local basketball community, which might not be fatal, but you're hopping around on one leg with a hand tied behind your back. Maybe he seemed humble on the outside but was arrogant and prideful in private. Those things are the downfall of a lot of people. He somehow failed to see the talent and potential in players like McKinley Wright--abilities that most of us here saw clearly with our eyes. I don't think he would have recruited Gabe K if Ben Johnson hadn't practically begged him to. All that sounds like hubris to me.
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For me after his first year even though we won the NIT there were Red Flags. I don't want to make this into a bash Pitino thread, but I'll just say when he got here many people perceived him as pretty arrogant. I thought he grew a lot while he was here....and by the end was very likable.
 

Bad Gopher said:
He didn't connect well with the local basketball community, which might not be fatal, but you're hopping around on one leg with a hand tied behind your back.
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(note: the following is not at all intended as a defense of Pitino, his supposed lack of local recruiting, or otherwise, it's a point unto itself)


But wait a second!

GopherHole will tell you time and time again: it does not matter where the player comes from.

You get the right players for your system, coach them the correct way, good culture, etc. and you win games. And it does not matter what states are listed on the roster.


Right?


So ... what gives with this comment? Particularly, perhaps (well, obviously it is!), vis-a-vis the hiring of Ben Johnson.
 

MplsGopher said:
(note: the following is not at all intended as a defense of Pitino, his supposed lack of local recruiting, or otherwise, it's a point unto itself)


But wait a second!

GopherHole will tell you time and time again: it does not matter where the player comes from.

You get the right players for your system, coach them the correct way, good culture, etc. and you win games. And it does not matter what states are listed on the roster.


Right?


So ... what gives with this comment? Particularly, perhaps (well, obviously it is!), vis-a-vis the hiring of Ben Johnson.
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It's a good question and conversation. I think it's a bit of a paradox. On one hand, we'll take them from anywhere indeed. On the other hand, does the 1997 team do anywhere as well as they did without Thomas, Jacobson and Winter? Nope. They're right in your backyard, which is a huge advantage. In a competitve industry, if you goof up a competitive advantage, you're giving yourself no chance.

Both Monson and Pitino were cooked when the local BB community decided they weren't the best choice to coach and develop their sons. Word gets around and leaks around the country. This is a basketball-smart town and a discriminating populace.
 

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