This is a fireable offense

[swede2]

Why do you have a right to expect 9 or 10 win seasons, in the new Big Ten, going forward like that can be a regular thing for a program like Minnesota?

I would love to hear the reasoning for that. There is no right or wrong answer, I just want to know the reasoning.


By the way, I see SDSU got dominated last night by NDSU, in a similar manner.

Do you live in Minneapolis or something? Are unreasonable expectations thoughtcrime where you live?

This isn't an SDSU message board but if it were I'd tell you that despite losing the entire coaching staff and bringing in 67 new players, SDSU's performance Saturday night in a rivalry game was embarrassing and completely unacceptable. 8 games in is too early to talk coaching changes but I do wonder if he O coordinator isn't too comfortable and maybe riding out until retirement. It's also fair to question if the Oline coach and run game coordinator are right for the job when the Oline was the returning strength of the program.

SDSU is instructive, though. Middling at the DII level (1 total playoff appearance), struggling during transition to FCS, SDSU it's arguably a top 2 FCS program, current difficulties notwithstanding. But it is also investing in FB in a big way to achieve those results.

 

[IrishGoph55]

This would be the worst season in probably history for any mid level P4 team to fire a coach now….. way too many jobs a available

 

[Panthadad2]

17.5 pts - Ciarrocca in 4 seasons
14.5 pts - Sanford in 2 seasons
9.0 pts - Harbaugh in 3 seasons

These are the average number of points scored by MN against Iowa by OC. It's bad and getting worse.

Edit add: I'm not going to go back and rescore, but if you count some defensive TDs by Iowa as negative points to the MN offense, these are probably noticeably worse.

 

[Panthadad2]

Offense Percentile (Yards) Avg. Rank in the BG10
45th percentile - Ciarrocca
50th Percentile - Sanford
18th Percentile - Harbaugh

If Fleck stays, then the Gophers need new leadership on offense. Just sayin.

 

[MZBKA1]

How do I measure it?

Fleck is 63-42 and 37-38 in the B1G.

Jerry Kill was 29-29, 14-21

Tim Brewster was 15-30, 6-21

Glen Mason was 64-57, 32-48

Jim Wacker was 16-39, 8-42.

Calling Fleck a failure given where this program has been is just ridiculous and absurd. You can be disappointed but get some perspective.

If he's fired, the person that replaces him is far more likely to have a record like the other 4 names on this list than be the next Curt Cignetti. Unless you have a specific person in mind to replace him who is a clear upgrade, firing him would be incredibly expensive and foolish.

Kill and Mason were taking over failing programs, and rebuilt them.

Fleck was gifted a program rebuilt by Kill and co., and has run it into the ground.

 

[swede2]

Kill and Mason were taking over failing programs, and rebuilt them.

Fleck was gifted a program rebuilt by Kill and co., and has run it into the ground.

He hasn't run it into the ground. He inherited a 9 win team and has generally kept it on a 7-8 win plane.

 

[btowngopher]

Kill and Mason were taking over failing programs, and rebuilt them.

Fleck was gifted a program rebuilt by Kill and co., and has run it into the ground.

It’s a better program than what Kill and Claeys built.

 

[btowngopher]

I personally think if you get rid of Fleck that’s the route you go.
Gotta hire someone who is an X and O guru

It’s more risky but more upside
If you get rid of fleck you aren’t doing it to raise the floor, you’re doing it to raise the ceiling.

Not sure who that guy is but Oregon OC could be one

Totally agree on needing an X and O guru. If we aren’t going to pay for assistant coaches then the HC needs to be a brilliant strategist. Ideally you find someone who meets this criteria and is a HC on a lower level team with a bunch of talent willing to follow him, if not settling for a coordinator would be my next move, but I’d rather take a coordinator that gets it done with a disadvantaged roster because that is what he’ll have to get it done with here. Not sure Oregon guy coaching 4 and 5 stars is going to translate to coaching mostly three stars.

 

[disco]

Kill and Mason were taking over failing programs, and rebuilt them.

Fleck was gifted a program rebuilt by Kill and co., and has run it into the ground.

Run it into the ground? What the hell are you blathering about? We aren't winning titles, but we're consistently a winning, though not spectacular, program.

 

[GopherGrit]

The problem isn't dropping games to Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan, etc. It's dumping games to Cal and not being competitive with Iowa. You can still win 9 games losing to OSU, Oregon and Iowa. That should be a reasonable goal and if you are actually good you win one of those three. I don't think that is a crazy goal. 9-3 means you are back end of the top 25 and probably 5th-7th in conference.

Iowa lost to Indiana, the #2 ranked team in the country, by a score of 15-20 (should have really been 13-20, but IU purposefully took a safety to take time off).

Maybe you're not giving Iowa fair credit? Their other loss was early to Iowa State, a rivalry game where anything can happen.


Cal QB played lights out, and our stupid 3-man rushes gave him all the time in the world to pick apart our D. That was a blunder, no doubt.

 

[GopherGrit]

IF we win three of the last four. That's a big IF when you consider that the Gophers have played well in ONE game this season. Sorry.....but in six power conference games....the team has only played well in the Nebraska game. We needed to claw and scratch AT HOME to beat Rutgers and Purdue.....who were both 0-4 in conference before playing each other yesterday.

Gloss it all you want. I still think we hit 7-5.....with a chance at 8-4.....but nothing is certain the way this team has played for most of the year. We caught a massive break with an super easy schedule and a bunch of very winnable games at home. 7-5 with our schedule, including a demoralizing beatdown from Iowa, is as ho-hum as it gets. Finish at 8-4 and get to Vegas or Nashville.....and I'd agree that the season would be a success.

It all comes down to the @ NW game.

We'll win at home against Mich State and Wisc. You can go ahead and book those.


Losing @ NW by 1 point and having that 1 point be a massive step change from "solid season" to "ho hum", is neither reasonable or fair on your part.

 

[GopherGrit]

Again, strong HS hockey in MN is not the problem.

My point had nothing to do with MN HS hockey.

It was responding only to "Just recruit and sign the best player available for the position...doesn't have to be from MN."

 

[GopherGrit]

Run it into the ground? What the hell are you blathering about? We aren't winning titles, but we're consistently a winning, though not spectacular, program.

This whole Cignetti thing has shook people up.


The dirty secret is that Cignetti hasn't done jack S at IU. Again (commenting from a previous thread), I do agree that it is a great thing that he has won all the game he was supposed to win. That is something. I don't care in the slightest about margin of victory. A win is a win.

He's not won a league title, and he's only have a bout 4 total tough games in two years. One playoff game was a loss.

Will be a fun Champ game, in Indy no less, but there should be no surprise if they lay another egg against Ohio State

 

[MNVCGUY]

Run it into the ground? What the hell are you blathering about? We aren't winning titles, but we're consistently a winning, though not spectacular, program.

MZBKA1 found my ignore list a long time ago and I have never regretted that decision.

 

[PMWinSTP]

My point had nothing to do with MN HS hockey.

It was responding only to "Just recruit and sign the best player available for the position...doesn't have to be from MN."

So we agree, thanks.

 

[PMWinSTP]

This whole Cignetti thing has shook people up.


The dirty secret is that Cignetti hasn't done jack S at IU. Again (commenting from a previous thread), I do agree that it is a great thing that he has won all the game he was supposed to win. That is something. I don't care in the slightest about margin of victory. A win is a win.

He's not won a league title, and he's only have a bout 4 total tough games in two years. One playoff game was a loss.

Will be a fun Champ game, in Indy no less, but there should be no surprise if they lay another egg against Ohio State

He's lost one B1G conference game since taking over at Indiana. 8-1 last year, which has never happened at Indiana. Its best conference season record before he arrived was six wins, that's happened only twice in the history of Indiana football.

 

[MNfootballfan]

Kill and Mason were taking over failing programs, and rebuilt them.

Fleck was gifted a program rebuilt by Kill and co., and has run it into the ground.

Two sides to every coin... Fleck took over a program that was a few hours from boycotting a bowl game with major sexual assault allegations against multiple members of the team.

To take it a step farther... The dad, who happened to be a former all-pro, of the best player on the team, was on the local news saying his son would never play for the Gophers again. Fleck not only rebuilt that relationship, Winfield stayed and ended up being a key player on the best team we've had in generations and would go on to become the highest paid safety in the NFL.

Our list of NFL players shown at Gopher games now-a-days almost don't fit during one TV timeout during the games. I remember under Kill and Brewster we would only have a handful.

Yes, Fleck took over a better program than Mason and Kill took over, but lets not skip over the fact that it wasn't all sunshine and roses. The program is better now than when he took it over. With that being said, we have a long ways to go. I am convinced Fleck's coaching style loses us 1-2 games a year.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Two sides to every coin... Fleck took over a program that was a few hours from boycotting a bowl game with major sexual assault allegations against multiple members of the team.

To take it a step farther... The dad, who happened to be a former all-pro, of the best player on the team, was on the local news saying his son would never play for the Gophers again. Fleck not only rebuilt that relationship, Winfield stayed and ended up being a key player on the best team we've had in generations and would go on to become the highest paid safety in the NFL.

Our list of NFL players shown at Gopher games now-a-days almost don't fit during one TV timeout during the games. I remember under Kill and Brewster we would only have a handful.

Yes, Fleck took over a better program than Mason and Kill took over, but lets not skip over the fact that it was all sunshine and roses. The program is better now than when he took it over. With that being said, we have a long ways to go. I am convinced Fleck's coaching style loses us 1-2 games a year.

9 years in and we still have posters who are longing for the Kill/Claeys days to return....

No real point trying to reason with anyone who wants to pretend Fleck inherited a team on the verge of becoming a contender because they won 9 games in 2016 under an interim coach.

 

[Gopherchase]

9 years in and we still have posters who are longing for the Kill/Claeys days to return....

No real point trying to reason with anyone who wants to pretend Fleck inherited a team on the verge of becoming a contender because they won 9 games in 2016 under an interim coach.

Kill had a legit beef about PJ talking about having to change culture et al. Kill did the heavy lifting there post Brew.

 

[Gilthorp57]

IF we win three of the last four. That's a big IF when you consider that the Gophers have played well in ONE game this season. Sorry.....but in six power conference games....the team has only played well in the Nebraska game. We needed to claw and scratch AT HOME to beat Rutgers and Purdue.....who were both 0-4 in conference before playing each other yesterday.

Gloss it all you want. I still think we hit 7-5.....with a chance at 8-4.....but nothing is certain the way this team has played for most of the year. We caught a massive break with an super easy schedule and a bunch of very winnable games at home. 7-5 with our schedule, including a demoralizing beatdown from Iowa, is as ho-hum as it gets. Finish at 8-4 and get to Vegas or Nashville.....and I'd agree that the season would be a success.

Exactly, this team could win those last three games (not counting Oregon) or lose them all of them. Right now we are a very unpredictable team with a predictable offense.

 

[Gilthorp57]

After reading these threads the recurring sentiment is recruiting is the issue. Cignetti brought 1/2 of a team and has been successful playing portal roulette. He now has established his reputation for success. Going forward he will have success in hs recruiting. Cincinnati, Louisville, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Cleveland all have big time hs football. They are within a 4-1/2 hour drive of Bloomington. It means a lot if your family can drive to your home games. High schools in Ohio have 7 divisions with 12 teams out of 16-20 teams in each division. And play a 10 game regular season. Even the small town my nephew was from has a 5,000 seat stadium and modern weight room. They are on their 2nd field turf field with large screen replays. In 25 years.They have reserved seats which are sold out . They play in a 8 team league. There setup is the same for 6 of the 8 teams. They are D2 team which is a big step below the top D1 schools. Thie top of the D2 heap is Massillon. There stadium seats 18,500. They have luxury boxes for sponsors. Their indoor practice faculty is D1 college level. Thei basketball teams suck and they don’t have hockey. With all that they have 11 state championship (2023) since the playoff era began in 1982. Kids coming out of these programs are well coached and battle tested. Minnesota kids are behind the curve when competing with this.

I'd also add the High School product coming out of Indiana is showing that Indiana is more than a basketball state. There is a Manning effect going on there as the Colts have heavily contributed sponsorships to bettering the game within the state.

 

[Some guy]

It all comes down to the @ NW game.

We'll win at home against Mich State and Wisc. You can go ahead and book those.


Losing @ NW by 1 point and having that 1 point be a massive step change from "solid season" to "ho hum", is neither reasonable or fair on your part.

I don’t think you can book any.
Purdue hasn’t won a big ten game since 2023 and we easily could’ve lost that game

 

[MNfootballfan]

Kill had a legit beef about PJ talking about having to change culture et al. Kill did the heavy lifting there post Brew.

One would argue the culture needed to be changed... unless you are cool with sexual assaults, team boycotts, etc.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Kill had a legit beef about PJ talking about having to change culture et al. Kill did the heavy lifting there post Brew.

Kill got his undies in a bunch over comments Fleck made about changing culture but nearly every coach talks about changing things when they come in because if nothing needed changing they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

It was not a legit beef it was petty and small which is what Kill showed himself to be in the years after he left here.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I'd also add the High School product coming out of Indiana is showing that Indiana is more than a basketball state. There is a Manning effect going on there as the Colts have heavily contributed sponsorships to bettering the game within the state.

Per 247: State of Indiana had eight 4* players in 2025 and one went to Indiana. six in 2024, one went to Indiana. Four in 2023, none went to Indiana. So far for 2026, there are no 4* rated players in Indiana.

 

[Gopherchase]

I think one thing that flies under the radar is the epically bad run of ADs we have had. Almost impossible to hire this many in a row that aren't very good at their jobs. Certainly rowing uphill overall from a sports program perspective with the incompetence we have had in that role. Hell Coyle can barely speak coherently and he might be the best of the bunch.

 

[Gopherchase]

Kill got his undies in a bunch over comments Fleck made about changing culture but nearly every coach talks about changing things when they come in because if nothing needed changing they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

It was not a legit beef it was petty and small which is what Kill showed himself to be in the years after he left here.

I’m not a Kill bobo but I think if you had been in his shoes to clean up Brewster’s mess ya might have been a little sensitive about some of the stuff PJ blasted away with, too.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I’m not a Kill bobo but I think if you had been in his shoes to clean up Brewster’s mess ya might have been a little sensitive about some of the stuff PJ blasted away with, too.

Think you might be forgetting about what Kill did to his legacy after leaving the U.

The whole thing is stupid. Kill did a good job cleaning up the mess Brew left. Fleck inherited a better situation then Kill did but it was far from perfect.

Kill could have ridden off into the sunset being fondly remembered by the majority of the Minnesota fanbase for his time here....he chose not to do that and instead took a dump on the University and torched every single bridge he could. Kill's crew of supporters usually show up here after losses and dredge up all this crap again until the next win when they go back into hiding until things get negative enough around here to bring it all back up again.

 

[Gopherchase]

Think you might be forgetting about what Kill did to his legacy after leaving the U.

The whole thing is stupid. Kill did a good job cleaning up the mess Brew left. Fleck inherited a better situation then Kill did but it was far from perfect.

Kill could have ridden off into the sunset being fondly remembered by the majority of the Minnesota fanbase for his time here....he chose not to do that and instead took a dump on the University and torched every single bridge he could. Kill's crew of supporters usually show up here after losses and dredge up all this crap again until the next win when they go back into hiding until things get negative enough around here to bring it all back up again.

I get it. I’m talking about the original dust up. The fact that he never let it go was silly.

 

[Some guy]

I’m not a Kill bobo but I think if you had been in his shoes to clean up Brewster’s mess ya might have been a little sensitive about some of the stuff PJ blasted away with, too.

Kill had every right to be upset and everyone else to think he’s a whiny baby