This is a fireable offense

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GopherGrit said:
OK, but as soon as it's a player from a state outside the north central region of the country .... why would they come to Minnesota? When they have to drive/fly past 10-15 Big Ten/P4 schools to get here?

It's a factor.


Until/unless there is a draft, that evenly spreads out the top talent in the country across the national major programs, this will never change.
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Again, strong HS hockey in MN is not the problem.
 

Some guy said:
fleck is 20-4 in regular season non conference games.
I am sure he would’ve preferred to win the 4

The bigger issue to me than all the griping about blowing non conference games or 1-8 against Iowa is the fact that the OL sucks in year 9 and it wasn’t very good in year 8 either
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Yeah.....most power conference teams have good non conference records because they play outmatched opponents. I wouldn't call beating Buffalo and Northwest Tech.....while losing to a Cal team with a bunch of new players and an entirely new coaching staff a success. Common occurrence year after year.
 

kg21 said:
Hey, I'm just bored with Fleck.

We are slow, unathletic, and boring as hell to watch in year 9.

I'd switch it up if it were me. But I guess we don't dare.
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I didn't say that, Fleck is well compensated, highest paid public employee in the State. He should be embarrassed by how bad all facets of the Iowa game were played. What I am bored with is how we lack an administration at the U that consistently invest in Football, basketball, Hockey. Men's baketball has been bad for 25 plus years. You go to athletic events at the U and instead of treating paying customers like welcome guest they treat us like pest, by closing bathrooms at Marriucu or Williams Arena, long ticket lines at the gates, long lines to park or blocking off parking areas by charging more than what some people are able to pay with family's. I and my group arrive early 1.5 hours to two hours for kick off for football. In a pro sports town, you are competing for customers with Wild, Wolves, Vikings, Twins. Whether it is ticket scanning, security checks, WiFi absolutely sucks at the stadiums, the U of M expects a lot of money for the C to D level services they provide. In traveling in the Big 10 my only comparable experience to the U iof M s Northwestern and they are investing in their facilities. Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nebraska treat their ticket buyers better. The U has never treated paying customers like they are any kind of priority at events, whether you go to the Cambria club or sit in regular seats or a season ticket holder. We should be great at Hockey and the concources and concessions suck, and seats even at center ice do not have cup holders. In football it is a fact the U doesn't do a good job courting Alumni donors or the business community. It's always been give me money, or donate just because we are the U, you graduated from here, and you should donate if you are in this community. The problems at the U are much deeper than coaching, and the University has actually improved a lot since the Dome days. I'm pissed about the Iowa game too but not just that it is a Fleck alone issue. The AD Coyle isn't good at courting donor dollars. At least he isn't a harraser like Teague but Coyle not good at bringing in donors dollars. That and the AD has been told about WIFI issues for years and does nothing to improve it. HS football in this geography doesn't have a long enough season or competitive programs to be much of a factor.
 
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GopherGrit said:
We're going to end up either 7-5 or 8-4, depending on the game at Wrigley. Obviously there are no guarantees in life but we should continue winning at home, where we've won all year, against Mich St and Wisconsin. We'll lose at Oregon.

8-4 gets us either the Las Vegas Bowl or the Music City bowl. Sorry, not sorry, those are nothing of the sort of lower tier bowl games.
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IF we win three of the last four. That's a big IF when you consider that the Gophers have played well in ONE game this season. Sorry.....but in six power conference games....the team has only played well in the Nebraska game. We needed to claw and scratch AT HOME to beat Rutgers and Purdue.....who were both 0-4 in conference before playing each other yesterday.

Gloss it all you want. I still think we hit 7-5.....with a chance at 8-4.....but nothing is certain the way this team has played for most of the year. We caught a massive break with an super easy schedule and a bunch of very winnable games at home. 7-5 with our schedule, including a demoralizing beatdown from Iowa, is as ho-hum as it gets. Finish at 8-4 and get to Vegas or Nashville.....and I'd agree that the season would be a success.
 

stocker08 said:
Yeah.....most power conference teams have good non conference records because they play outmatched opponents. I wouldn't call beating Buffalo and Northwest Tech.....while losing to a Cal team with a bunch of new players and an entirely new coaching staff a success. Common occurrence year after year.
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Which teams have a 20-4 record since 2018 even with the cupcakes?
 

Texan Gopher said:
Pj should not be fired. He has been great for us. That being said, his offensive coordinator and his defensive coordinator should be on the hot seat. We have one of the least creative offenses and yet one of the most predictable soft coverage defenses in all of college football

We will beat bad teams but we will never be good teams with the play calling on both sides of the ball that we currently have.
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Fleck is the one who promoted the OC and DC, therefore he should be fired.
 






GopherGrit said:
I'm bored with your posts.

Literally every single game that the Vikings or Gophers lose, you just blather out that we're slow, that our receivers don't get open, and/or that our lines suck.

You provide zero evidence. You provide zero reasoning. You act like the loss or that high-level stats (total team yards rushing or passing) are self-evident, when they are anything but.

I wish you would go follow other teams. Your act is old and moldy.
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the lines for the gophers and vikings completely blow.

My evidence is what my own eyes see.

You bore the schit out of me. We can't run the ball, etc.........yet the lines are fine. The gopher lines are pathetic. Did you happen to watch the game yesterday?
 

GopherGrit said:
OK, but as soon as it's a player from a state outside the north central region of the country .... why would they come to Minnesota? When they have to drive/fly past 10-15 Big Ten/P4 schools to get here?

It's a factor.


Until/unless there is a draft, that evenly spreads out the top talent in the country across the national major programs, this will never change.
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Again, strong HS hockey in MN is not the problem.
btowngopher said:
What is the problem?
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You tell me.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Again, strong HS hockey in MN is not the problem.
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No one said HS hockey was THE problem. It was in response to someone not believing Iowa produces more FBS players than Minnesota despite having a smaller population. The popularity of HS hockey in Mn absolutely factors into that. Throw in borders of SD, ND, and Canada we don’t have very fertile recruiting grounds.
 

LeftofThaDial said:
No one said HS hockey was THE problem. It was in response to someone not believing Iowa produces more FBS players than Minnesota despite having a smaller population. The popularity of HS hockey in Mn absolutely factors into that. Throw in borders of SD, ND, and Canada we don’t have very fertile recruiting grounds.
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Read my other post.
 

stocker08 said:
I would guess a lot of the teams that play two cupcakes and a bottom feeder P5 team every year.
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Can you name any teams that have an 83% winning percentage?
I’d be curious but not curious enough to do the research myself
 

Some guy said:
Can you name any teams that have an 83% winning percentage?
I’d be curious but not curious enough to do the research myself
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I'm not going to go team by team and determine what their NC winning percentage is.

Let me ask you this.....what is Fleck's best non conference win? Beating up on a terrible Colorado team? Sorry.....but I'm not going to give Fleck credit for beating a bunch of over matched teams while losing to only ones we played with a pulse.
 

stocker08 said:
I'm not going to go team by team and determine what their NC winning percentage is.

Let me ask you this.....what is Fleck's best non conference win? Beating up on a terrible Colorado team? Sorry.....but I'm not going to give Fleck credit for beating a bunch of over matched teams while losing to only ones we played with a pulse.
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I didn’t try to give him very much credit. I just said non conference is not the issue

Big difference between saying that he is really good at non conference and saying that losing to cal, UNCx2 and bowling green in 9 years isn’t the problem


Here are some comparable programs maybe (just regular season):
Nebraska under Rhule 8-1 loss to Colorado 88% winning percentage
Illinois under Beilema 12-3 80% winning percentage
Loss to Virginia, Kansas, and UTSA

Hard to compare Fickell because he had to play bama twice
Hard to compare Iowa because Ferentz has been there since the Clinton administration


Fleck 83% winning
Losses to Bowling Green, UNCx2, Cal
 
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PMWinSTP said:
This is all-time...
College Football Team Win Trends - Non-Conference Games https://share.google/nIeeZQm2BtZDPeqY4
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That’s crazy. When is that since?
It implies if fleck did this non conference for the rest of time he would end up being the best non conference winning percentage ever because his winning percentage (if you include bowls) is 86.7% and Ohio states is 83%

Obviously not all opponents created equal
 

Texan Gopher said:
Pj should not be fired. He has been great for us. That being said, his offensive coordinator and his defensive coordinator should be on the hot seat. We have one of the least creative offenses and yet one of the most predictable soft coverage defenses in all of college football

We will beat bad teams but we will never be good teams with the play calling on both sides of the ball that we currently have.
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The OC has sucked big time since he was unfortunately given the job. DC is terrible. Way over his head. He sucks big time. We will not win with these 2 clowns. I fault fleck that they are still coaching. Bad. Really bad. Embarrassing.
 

GopherGrit said:
Why do you have a right to expect 9 or 10 win seasons, in the new Big Ten, going forward like that can be a regular thing for a program like Minnesota?

I would love to hear the reasoning for that. There is no right or wrong answer, I just want to know the reasoning.


By the way, I see SDSU got dominated last night by NDSU, in a similar manner.
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The problem isn't dropping games to Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan, etc. It's dumping games to Cal and not being competitive with Iowa. You can still win 9 games losing to OSU, Oregon and Iowa. That should be a reasonable goal and if you are actually good you win one of those three. I don't think that is a crazy goal. 9-3 means you are back end of the top 25 and probably 5th-7th in conference.
 

Some guy said:
That’s crazy. When is that since?
It implies if fleck did this non conference for the rest of time he would end up being the best non conference winning percentage ever because his winning percentage (if you include bowls) is 86.7% and Ohio states is 83%

Obviously not all opponents created equal
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Not sure but assuming it includes all noncon games, probably 40 years?
 

PMWinSTP said:
Not sure but assuming it includes all noncon games, probably 40 years?
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Absolutely crazy to me.
Obviously Ohio state is playing rose bowls, playoffs, etc and is playing tougher opponents but
 

Some guy said:
I didn’t try to give him very much credit. I just said non conference is not the issue

Big difference between saying that he is really good at non conference and saying that losing to cal, UNCx2 and bowling green in 9 years isn’t the problem
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But it IS a problem. I'd bet that when we played UNC in Chapel Hill, that was the only non conference game under Fleck in which the Gophers were underdogs. Yet he's lost four non conference games including a head scratching game against Bowling Green.

It's a symptom of a larger issue. The inexplicable need to play an ultra vanilla game, particularly early on in the season. Every game matters. Doesn't Fleck call each game a "championship season"? Well why are these games not treated like that.

Losing to BG in 2021 landed the team at 8-4 rather than 9-3 on the year. We got sent to play a 6-6 WV team on a baseball field. Would have probably ended up in the Music City, Las Vegas, or maybe even the Outback Bowl if not for that gaffe.

And last year....we beat UNC like we should have.....probably play a ranked SEC team rather than a decimated 6-6 VTech team. Who knows what the impact of the Cal loss will have. Hopefully we find a way to win three of the last four and get to Vegas or Nashville. But I'm not holding my breath.

My point is that these games matter when margins are as close as they are.....and Fleck has consistently treated them like they don't matter much.
 


GopherGuy82 said:
The problem isn't dropping games to Oregon, Ohio St, Michigan, etc. It's dumping games to Cal and not being competitive with Iowa. You can still win 9 games losing to OSU, Oregon and Iowa. That should be a reasonable goal and if you are actually good you win one of those three. I don't think that is a crazy goal. 9-3 means you are back end of the top 25 and probably 5th-7th in conference.
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It’s a fine goal, but hard to accomplish when you’re in the worst recruiting turf of anyone in the conference. It’s the same goal everyone else outside the top quarter of the conference has.
 

GophersWin! said:
The OC has sucked big time since he was unfortunately given the job. DC is terrible. Way over his head. He sucks big time. We will not win with these 2 clowns. I fault fleck that they are still coaching. Bad. Really bad. Embarrassing.
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We are switching from gun zone scheme to a more under center gap scheme

Last year I wrote off bad run game from the OL as transition. Two years it’s becoming a trend
 

kg21 said:
Of course not, but it's year 9 and we are so mediocre.

I'd love to roll the dice on someone else.
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Did you trust the people in charge to make the right hire? I don't. Fleck is as good as we can get. That's more than obvious by now.
 


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