Things will be worse next year

Donate To GopherHole
DBs will be better. LBs the real mystery.

However, the Defence is not the issue with this year's team, the offence is. We return all our RBs, our QBs and pretty much all our O-line. Decker is a big loss but I am not sure that we have not hnidred development of Green, Stoudamire by being so Decker focused. Hopefully next year is their year to thrive.

I agree schedule is tough but sooner or later we need to have a break-out year. I hope it is next year.

Barring implosion or scandle, Brewster should be here for a while. He may not have been a good hire at the time but we have now put 3 years into turning him into a head coach. Unless Tony Dungy is available I don't see a reason to change course.
 

people act like that other schools don't graduate players too.. every year a player has to be replaced by someone on every team..... naming next years scheduel and throwing out the names of next years team is plain silly....on other teams players will be replaced by somebody new who is coming in or somebody who was a back up last year.... so let me shed some light on this coaching staff and the make up of the players who are being recruited and the players who will be returning... they are not intimidated by usc ohio state or any other school that is on the scheduel..they believe that they can line up against anybody... there are some things that cant be coached speed desire work ethic and confidence in your own ability while we like to throw out names of who is leaving and what we don't have coming back... for those who like to talk smack on this board how we don't have nothing coming back i double dog dare you to tell sam or dl or kevin or brandon that....
 

Pewterschmidt said:
Took at stab at the depth chart on defense next year to prove my point.

DE: Jacobs - Hageman
DE: Wilhite - Garin or KGM
DT: Kirksey - Jacques
DT: Edwards - Searcy??? or another true freshman???
LB: Cooper - Grant
LB: Tinsley - Maresh
LB: Reeves - Singleton
CB: Carter - Lewis
CB: Collado - J Johnson
S: Royston - Rallis
S: Theret - Dandridge

Seriously...look at that for a second. Outside of Rallis and Dandridge, name a backup that has even played? Those players will be backing up 9 players that have either never started a game before or only a small handful.

And we expect an improvement against USC, Iowa, OSU, PSU, at Wisconsin, at Mich St, at Illinois, and at Purdue?
Click to expand...

Who said we expect some kind of major improvement???? We will be a 7-5/6-6 team next year like we are this year........ but we ALL knew this!!!! Brew has had 2 very nice recruiting classes, the quicker we get those guys on the field the better off we will be. I don't expect to see anything really special next year except for young guys with more talent, making some mistakes and learning each game. In 2011 and 2012, I think we can expect big things from our team. Talking about needing to see some type of major improvement before then is ludicrous. Just let the process happen!!!!!
 

I think the best way to look at is by comparing the Gophers vs. other Big 10 programs. Where is the Gopher program in relation to the rest of the Big 10? Has significant process been made to close the gap?

How would you rank the overall strength of the Big 10 programs when Brew arrived (2007), and how would you rank the Big 10 programs now? Here's how I'd rank them now, taking into account who the coach is, direction of the program, etc. ...

1. Ohio State (still the standard-bearer in the Big 10)
2. Penn State (not far behind, despite JoePa's figure-head status)
3. Iowa (for my money, Ferentz is the best coach in the Big 10)
4. Michigan State (clearly on the way up with Dantonio, may be the next Ferentz)
5. Wisconsin (still a solid program, but Bielema?)
6. Michigan (jury still out on Rodriguez)
7. Northwestern (Fitzgerald has done a nice job keeping this program relevant)
8. Minnesota (talent is clearly better, but 2+ years in no real signature win)
9. Purdue (work to do, but still "hope" in Year 1 after signature win over Buckeyes)
10. Illinois (Zooker starting to live up to his rep; a recruiter but can't coach way out of paper bag)
11. Indiana (is it basketball season yet?)
 

Selection Sunday...

realistic ranking and seems about right...points out that the big leap to #4/#5 (or higher) will require a great deal of strong recruiting and savvy coaching...both player development and game planning. Strong recruiting seem in-place, the savvy coaching element is still in flux IMHO.
 


sonnygarcia said:
Who said we expect some kind of major improvement???? We will be a 7-5/6-6 team next year like we are this year........ but we ALL knew this!!!! Brew has had 2 very nice recruiting classes, the quicker we get those guys on the field the better off we will be. I don't expect to see anything really special next year except for young guys with more talent, making some mistakes and learning each game. In 2011 and 2012, I think we can expect big things from our team. Talking about needing to see some type of major improvement before then is ludicrous. Just let the process happen!!!!!
Click to expand...

- If you look back at this tread, many have said the team will be improved next year. A few more expect a status quo. I titled this thread "Things will be worse in next year" because I think that will be the case. To me (and others), not making a bottom-of-the-barrel bowl game next year will be considered anything but a status quo, much less an improvement. I think (as I've stated many times) that the combination of inexperience at the majority of the positions along with almost no experienced backups given the difficulty of the schedule and 6-6 might be a stretch. Will the team be more talented? Possibly. Will the play improve? I don't think so because the inexperience and depth will come to the forefront IMO.

This all circles back to the original point of this thread...that Brewster will have a very tough time surviving past 2010 if he fails to reach a bowl game next year and from my perspective, that's a real possibility. 2010's squad will be made up almost entirely of Brewster's recruits. Not making a bowl game will be a damning charge along with no signature wins nor wins in the trophy games (which I think will be the case after next year). The heat will intensify if I'm correct. Hope I'm wrong but it's just how I see it.

Is it right that Brewster gets the axe if I'm correct? That's another topic but the pressure sure will be there.

As for the "scheduel" person (I'm not claiming to be the world's best speller. Heck, I rely on spellcheck all of the time...but if you type "scheduel" twice and not see the error, wow!)...next year won't be the normal turnover. Teams don't replace that many seniors who contribute that much and not feel the growing pains. It's one thing to lose 6 to 8 starters. It's another to lose 14 players that started at some point this year along with 6 more that added depth and saw minutes. Also, the "double dog dare" comment? Really? I'm not ripping on the ability of the players. I'm stating that most of the potential starters on D next year along with their backups have yet to prove themselves at the BT level. Someone like Reeves may turn into the greatest LB in the history of college football. However, I'm a realist and pulling from past knowledge, something tells me it'll be a bumpy transition for him and the others who have seen little playing time. That's the reality of college football. This isn't a small handful of players making the dramatic increase in PT. It's a much larger than normal group. Some will shine off the bat. Some will have a tough time at first. Some will fall flat on their face and never recover. Too many unknowns usually means a rocky road.
 

Defense

For the people who think the defense will be better next year, you guys drink a lot of Kool-Aid. The defense next year will be terrible. No doubt about that. I hope that I'm dead WRONG.

Whoever said that Campbell and Triplett are about as good as Mckenzie and Sherels must be drunk when they typed that statement on their computer. Triplett and Campbell are not All-Americans but they are WAY better then Mckenzie and Sherels. Mckenzie was the worst middle linebacker I have seen in the Big Ten. In one game as a middle linebacker he had zero tackles.

Let's stop being delusional that our defense will be better next year!
 

"4. The stadium is awesome and we actually have a home field advantage again."

I agree the stadium is awesome, but respectfully the Gophers are 2-2 at TCF. I'm not ready to say they have a home field advantage to this point.
 

There are always different ways to look at things. I'm proud of the way Cambell and Triplett have played this year. But I have a feeling there great tackle stats have a bit of something to do with the stout DT's and bend but don't break Dback philosophy.

Our Dline will be better overall although the depth at the DT spot might be a question. Our CB's are iffy because of depth but really the boring Cosgrove D does minimize that effect. I think we'll be ok on the D side.

Even if the D steps back a little, Our offense only loses one great reciever and an above average TE, they should get better. How could they be worse?? so in total, I have a hard time seeing a worse team. Unfortunately, I think we need to be a better team for next years schedule.
 



gold04 said:
For the people who think the defense will be better next year, you guys drink a lot of Kool-Aid. The defense next year will be terrible. No doubt about that. I hope that I'm dead WRONG.

Whoever said that Campbell and Triplett are about as good as Mckenzie and Sherels must be drunk when they typed that statement on their computer. Triplett and Campbell are not All-Americans but they are WAY better then Mckenzie and Sherels. Mckenzie was the worst middle linebacker I have seen in the Big Ten. In one game as a middle linebacker he had zero tackles.

Let's stop being delusional that our defense will be better next year!
Click to expand...

Campbell is a very good College LB and has been for a couple of years. Triplett seems to have fallen-off and has trouble with outside containment but he has been playing hurt.

Sherels though has been playing well. He's not getting beat deep. It's just tough to ask a Cornerback to stay with a receiver for what,. about a half hour or so on virtually every pass play because the guys up front can never seem to get to the QB!!!:mad:

While it's tough to blame the Defense for the Penn State loss, unless they can figure out a way to get some pressure or decide to manhandle Wideouts at the line of scrimmage I can't see the Defense getting a lot better this year or next. There, glad I got that out of my system.

Otherwise this has been a very entertaining thread.....
 

Lets be honest, none of us really know what will happen next year. I could see it going either way.

Offensively we return 9 starters-- I consider a starter anybody that starts 6+ games--which is everybody but Decker and N. Tow-Arnett. Tow-Arnett is solid but no irreplaceable. On the other hand Decker is statistically the best WR in the history of the Gophers. That being said, Decker's departure could help or hurt this teams. I don't foresee one player replacing Decker in 2009 but between Green, Stoudermire, McKnight, Carpenter, Allen, etc there are players that could cumulatively step up their game and replace his production. As I watch the Gophers offense Weber seems to use Decker as a bit of a crutch at times and I wouldn't be completely surprised to see improvement from Weber and the rest of the offense when Weber is forced to spread the ball around more. We saw the offense without Decker last year against Wisconsin (scored 32 points) which was a lot better than our performance in the two games (Michigan & Iowa combined ~6 points) when Decker was on the field trying play through injury--I personally think not having Decker on the field for Iowa & Mich would have changed the offensive game plan & attitude of the players which would have helped.

Defensively is the real crap shoot about whether the youngsters sink or swim. Overall we trade experience for athleticism and our depth looks more like it did in 2008 than in 2009.

IMO our backup DT's this year are just as good as the starters so we won't see a huge drop off for the DT starters but we won't have the same depth next year as we have this year. I personally think Jacobs moves to DT next year helping the depth. Our DE's this year aren't providing a pass rush so IMO Hageman, Garin, KGM, and Wilhite at DE probably can't be any worse than what we have now. Great DE's usually emerge as good to great DE's by their 2nd-3rd year in a college program so it might be early for Hageman, Garin & KGM but we have to roll the dice and see if they sink or swim.

I'm not worried about Cooper filling in for Lawrence at SLB. I've been impressed by Tinsley at MLB so I'm not too worried about losing Campbell. IMO the third LB is going to be a battle between Reeves and Singleton with the loser & Grant backing up at OLB and Maresh backing up at MLB. It is an undersized LB corps but they are a very athletic group.

The secondary is also very interesting. We return two starters with Royston & Theret. If we look at CB (Collado, Johnson, Carter) and S (Rallis, Dandridge, Watkins, Lewis) it appears we have more talent and depth at S than CB. I think the way to get the best players on to the field is to move Royston over to CB (he played there as a freshman at Wisc) and let the backup safeties compete for a starting job. Royston at CB also has a side effect of helping our run defense (we have small LB's) and he seems more than capable of playing CB in a zone defensive scheme.
CB: Carter / Johnson or frosh
CB: Royston / Collado
SS: Theret / Rallis or Lewis
FS: Dandridge or Watkins / D or W

That seems like a plenty capable secondary with good depth. I think overall we improve in run support from our current secondary without sacrificing much (if any) in coverage.

If you're looking for whether we'll be better or worse in 2010 you need to look no further than the state to our east to figure out that nobody knows the answer. Wisconsin returned many multi-year starters in 2008 and everybody had high expectations for the Badgers (at one point they were ranked in the top 10). Despite high expectations they struggled to make a bowl game and finished 7-6. Reasonable people expected Wisconsin would take a step back in 2009 because they lost so many multi-year starters from their defense and OL. However, with the emergence of Schofield, Tolzien and younger WR's with continued strong performance from Clay & Graham they've managed to get better instead of worse. Such is the nature of college football.
 

Interesting thought on royston. I can see it happen. that keeps collado in his better role.
 




Royston

I like that thought of moving Royston to conerback in 2010.
 

Schnauzer said:
Well, congrats on considering yourself to be a rational poster. Now that you have declared yourself to be rational, I challenge you to find anyone on this (or any other) board who considers themselves to be irrational, stupid, wrong, etc. Keep in mind, I am not calling you any of those things, I just find it funny that someone would take the time to declare themselves "rational."
Click to expand...

Schnauzer, I think it's quite easy to identify the "rational" posters just as it's very easy to identify the others. I have a sneaking suspicion that you can tell the difference as well.

For example, any post that includes "you're a troll" or "get a clue" or "why are you so bitter?" when a post questions the Gopher program in any way shape or form? You guessed it - probably not a terribly rational poster.

I personally don't find any reason to believe that the Gophers will perform better on the field next season for reasons already spelled out by other posters. That isn't an emotional statement - it's a rational one. If others want to believe that the young guys currently not starting are going to all step up and produce at a higher level than the current starting seniors? That's ok with me - I just happen to disagree. That doesn't mean they should be called names. That's what this board needs - way more being rational and way less being emotional. One can only wish... ;-)

See how easy it is to tell the difference between rational and irrational?
 

I wasn't calling anyone rational or irrational. I just found it funny that someone would take the time to declare themself "rational", and I thought I was pretty clear about that being my point in the paragraph that you quoted. I'm not engaged in a quest to discover who is rational and who is not.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
Your reasoning is that the underclassman are better than the seniors. I say prove it first. Until then, I'll say inexperience will be a more of a deciding factor against next year's brutal schedule.
Click to expand...

What makes you think this year's seniors, beyond Decker, are so great? So far here you seem like some radical type who always thinks that the past was better than the future, change is always bad, and therefore you're always teetering on the brink of hopeless depression as the world changes around you.

The truth of the matter is quite simple; the schedule is indeed tough again; and the Gophers will probably only win about as many games next year as they do this year...yet that does NOT mean that (1) they are worse or (2) their future is hopeless or (3) I or most Gopher fans will stop being Gopher fans.

It's ok to be a Debbie Downer, but really, you're going way overboard here, Pewter. A little patience and a little critical thinking are calling your name. I've seen you post much more sensible arguments before.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
My opinion certainly has been wrong before and it may be wrong here but if I were a betting man, I would bet on worse '10 season.

I'm playing off history here. Returning starters is important when facing a tough schedule. I'm not going to place my predictions based on wishes that unproven players are improvements over the current starters.
Click to expand...

You still haven't used your theory to explain how Tubby lost his 3 top players after his first year, then with a very similar schedule, the Gophers improved in his second year while using an agglomeration of inexperienced players.

Basically, your theory is both right and wrong. It's right when an experienced team does well, and wrong when one doesn't. And the problem is, it's both right and wrong often, which basically says that it isn't a very good measure to predict success. There is a reason that the Gophers were predicted by most of the experts to finish somewhere around 9th in the Big Ten this year - I guess they didn't feel that our "experience" meant as much as you seem to think it is. So who should I trust, you, the experts, the consensus opinion on this board, or are none of these reliable? The fact is, we all have to wait until next year because no one really knows. But this I know for a FACT: just because you are adamant about your opinion doesn't make it correct....you know?
 


SelectionSunday said:
I think the best way to look at is by comparing the Gophers vs. other Big 10 programs. Where is the Gopher program in relation to the rest of the Big 10? Has significant process been made to close the gap?

How would you rank the overall strength of the Big 10 programs when Brew arrived (2007), and how would you rank the Big 10 programs now? Here's how I'd rank them now, taking into account who the coach is, direction of the program, etc. ...

1. Ohio State (still the standard-bearer in the Big 10)
2. Penn State (not far behind, despite JoePa's figure-head status)
3. Iowa (for my money, Ferentz is the best coach in the Big 10)
4. Michigan State (clearly on the way up with Dantonio, may be the next Ferentz)
5. Wisconsin (still a solid program, but Bielema?)
6. Michigan (jury still out on Rodriguez)
7. Northwestern (Fitzgerald has done a nice job keeping this program relevant)
8. Minnesota (talent is clearly better, but 2+ years in no real signature win)
9. Purdue (work to do, but still "hope" in Year 1 after signature win over Buckeyes)
10. Illinois (Zooker starting to live up to his rep; a recruiter but can't coach way out of paper bag)
11. Indiana (is it basketball season yet?)
Click to expand...

SS - interesting, and thought I'd render my useless opinion:
T1. Ohio State - still the standard-bearer
T1. Penn State - PSU has not only caught OSU in the past few years, they also have just as much if not more fan support, and this year's recruiting class is absolutely outstanding, suggesting that even as JoePa's years wane, Penn State will continue to dominate.
3. Michigan - sadly, Michigan as a football school is still too powerful to let one jerk (DickRod) ruin it. I could coach the Michigan football program into a consistent winner.
T4. Iowa - Ferentz is a good coach, but recruiting is nothing special, just like the state and the school.
T4. Michigan State - Dantonio doing a nice job on the recruiting front but few results on the field yet. MSU needs to build now while Michigan still isn't at their dominant best.
T4. Minnesota - New stadium, new fans, new talent, new attitude, new commitment from the administration; just lacking on-field results so far.
T4. Wisconsin - Bielema seems to be trying to bury the program, but there is no denying that he still does an ok (not good, but not terrible) job riding Alvarez's coattails. If on-field results start to wane a bit, their confidence could tumble and Wisconsin may drop from this group.
8. Illinois - how Zook still gets recruits there is beyond me, but there's no denying that Illinois has better athletic talent than 9, 10, and 11 now and for the foreseeable future. That and fair fan support keeps them far from the bottom.
T9. Purdue - Tiller let the program wane too much before he left. Interest in Purdue football has gone south with it; the Drew Brees and Kyle Orton days are over and Purdue just doesn't have much firepower waiting in the wings to suggest that they can compete at a high level in the Big Ten within the next few years.
T9. Northwestern - nice coach, but no fan support and no chance at getting in Blue Chip recruits. Relatively brainy players helps their chances, but brains only make up so much in the talent differential department. Northwestern's best years were and always were a fluke. I do find myself cheering for them often, though.
11. Indiana - a hopeless situation. They even get outright mistreated by the refs on a regular basis, just like the Gophers used to, though instant replay prevents the worst aggrievances from occurring these days. Other Big Ten teams steal their best recruits. If their basketball program wasn't so strong I'd feel bad for them. The Duke of the North has no chance now or for the foreseeable future.
 

cncmin said:
SS - interesting, and thought I'd render my useless opinion:
T1. Ohio State - still the standard-bearer
T1. Penn State - PSU has not only caught OSU in the past few years, they also have just as much if not more fan support, and this year's recruiting class is absolutely outstanding, suggesting that even as JoePa's years wane, Penn State will continue to dominate.
3. Michigan - sadly, Michigan as a football school is still too powerful to let one jerk (DickRod) ruin it. I could coach the Michigan football program into a consistent winner.
T4. Iowa - Ferentz is a good coach, but recruiting is nothing special, just like the state and the school.
T4. Michigan State - Dantonio doing a nice job on the recruiting front but few results on the field yet. MSU needs to build now while Michigan still isn't at their dominant best.
T4. Minnesota - New stadium, new fans, new talent, new attitude, new commitment from the administration; just lacking on-field results so far.
T4. Wisconsin - Bielema seems to be trying to bury the program, but there is no denying that he still does an ok (not good, but not terrible) job riding Alvarez's coattails. If on-field results start to wane a bit, their confidence could tumble and Wisconsin may drop from this group.
8. Illinois - how Zook still gets recruits there is beyond me, but there's no denying that Illinois has better athletic talent than 9, 10, and 11 now and for the foreseeable future. That and fair fan support keeps them far from the bottom.
T9. Purdue - Tiller let the program wane too much before he left. Interest in Purdue football has gone south with it; the Drew Brees and Kyle Orton days are over and Purdue just doesn't have much firepower waiting in the wings to suggest that they can compete at a high level in the Big Ten within the next few years.
T9. Northwestern - nice coach, but no fan support and no chance at getting in Blue Chip recruits. Relatively brainy players helps their chances, but brains only make up so much in the talent differential department. Northwestern's best years were and always were a fluke. I do find myself cheering for them often, though.
11. Indiana - a hopeless situation. They even get outright mistreated by the refs on a regular basis, just like the Gophers used to, though instant replay prevents the worst aggrievances from occurring these days. Other Big Ten teams steal their best recruits. If their basketball program wasn't so strong I'd feel bad for them. The Duke of the North has no chance now or for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

Purdue will have plenty of firepower next year. In fact, they have plenty right now, just stupid mistakes have killed them. They lose quite a bit on defense (which might be a good thing?) but they get their main guys back on offense including a new QB in transfer Robert Mavre who started for Miami last year.

I can't blame you for being a homer, but lumping the Gophers with Iowa and Wisconsin is ridiculous at this point.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
- ...Someone like Reeves may turn into the greatest LB in the history of college football. However, I'm a realist and pulling from past knowledge, something tells me it'll be a bumpy transition for him and the others who have seen little playing time...
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, how much important experience did the following players have before coming in and doing a pretty good job this year:
RB - Kevin Whaley
OL - Wills, Carufel, etc. etc.
TE - Tow-Arnett (wasn't Simmons #1 on the DC last year?)
DL - Wilhite, McKinley, Kirksey (also, Jacobs and Edwards showing more PT)
LB - Triplett, Campbell (wasn't he a DE?), Cooper
S - Royston (different program)
CB - Carter
P - both Orseske (pre-injury) and now Haudan (wow!!)
K - Ellestad
PR - Allen

Last year you could mention Brock, Lawrence, Eskridge, Green, BPTSimmons, Stoudermire, Salamon, Sherels, etc.

The point is this - we can only speculate who the starters and backups will be next year and how good they will be. But we could only do the same thing every year prior, and yet somehow someone stepped up, and some did much better than expected. At this point, the big key is that the raw talent of the guys replacing our senior starters, beyond Decker, is generally significantly better; which suggests a higher ceiling. It doesn't guarantee success, but it definitely makes it more fun to follow.
 

MinnesotaBoiler99 said:
Purdue will have plenty of firepower next year. In fact, they have plenty right now, just stupid mistakes have killed them. They lose quite a bit on defense (which might be a good thing?) but they get their main guys back on offense including a new QB in transfer Robert Mavre who started for Miami last year.

I can't blame you for being a homer, but lumping the Gophers with Iowa and Wisconsin is ridiculous at this point.
Click to expand...

Any QB with a last name ending in -avre has got to be scary good. And I realize the importance of QB play to the success of a football team. That said, while Purdue will have "plenty firepower", I don't see a reasonable argument that suggests they will have any more firepower than the 7 teams I put above them (no offense to the Boilers, just my opinion based on evidence at hand, which includes a few straight years of relatively poor (Mason-esque) recruiting and no high-round NFL players on the current squad). Beating OSU last weekend was nice, but might you be riding that high in your current and future assessment of your favorite team? Didn't Purdue lay an egg just the week before against the Gophers team that you lamented in the same post?

As for lumping the Gophers with Iowa and Wisconsin - Wisconsin is a slowly falling program, Bielema isn't exactly revered there, and teams around them are picking up steam (in particular, Minnesota), which signficantly reduces their available talent pool. Unless Wisconsin can find another large recruiting hot spot, their days of consistent winning and vying for conference championships are long over. As for Iowa, Ferentz is winning, but it's not like he's winning with that much talent, and it's not like Iowa is some top-tier program. They are, essentially, one of the luckiest teams I have seen in a long time. They are a mid-tier Big Ten program that is currently over-exceeding, nothing more, nothing less. And p.s. Iowa's also going to suffer from the stoppage of the talent pipeline that was the state of Minnesota.

Thus, if you can't argue that Iowa and Wisconsin are top-tier programs, then your only argument can be that the Gophers aren't in the middle of the Big Ten pack; and that argument could only be made by their on-field results (which are, in fact, near the middle of the Big Ten pack), as most other factors compare fairly well, now, to its southern and eastern brethren.
 

Your assumption is that the starters on this years team are more talented than the guys behind them. I would respectuflly disagree with you on that. While we lose some key players (Decker, Campbell, Lawrence and our DT), I would estimate that only Decker and possibly Campbell would not be ableto be replaced as easily as the rest of the seniors. I expect (hope) our O-Line will be better, our QB will be better and our Linebackers will be equal. We are good with the guys coming up on the D-Line and our secondary can ONLY get better! So I say we will be better.
 

You can see the talent improving, we actually have team speed, something we never had with Mase or Gudy. We're better next year, no doubt.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom