Then what?

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Hates Monikers said:
Fitzgerald had two BT wins in his first season, three in his second and five in his third and fourth.
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He had 4 total wins his first year and 6 his second. Which would have been enough for the media and internet posters to start calling for his head in this town.
He also had years of 7 wins and 6 wins recently, which would have created a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# storm in this town.
 

We need to be realistic folks. I'm a huge Gopher fan, as most of us here are. Changing coaches every 3-5 years isn't going to work for us imo. In order to attract better coaches in the future, the athletic department needs to show potential coaches that we are willing to give them time to build their system. Not only build the system, but then put players into their system that fit the mold so to speak. Recruiting against the likes of OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, etc., isn't an easy thing to do here. Probably never will be. The schools I mentioned bring in kids that are physically ready to play earlier than the recruits we land here, most often and yet if you look at their depth charts, they are still playing more junior and seniors than most other teams. Most of the recruits we are able to get here need time in the weight room to develop physically. Right now, A LOT of our problems have to do with physical strength imo. We need to allow this staff to get to a point where we match up with other teams. Changing staffs now or even after next year would be a disaster for the above mentioned reasons. We'd be starting over again. Patience is hard sometimes, but if we give the current staff time, I think we will be rewarded. Brick by Brick folks!
 

The idea that we should hold onto an unsuccessful coach because the next coach might also be unsuccessful is the height of insanity. I'm not saying Kill should be fired after three years, but the argument that we'll never be able to do any better is also garbage.

Offer 2 mil a year for the next coach and we'll have a lot of qualified choices.
 

GopherFBfan said:
We need to be realistic folks. I'm a huge Gopher fan, as most of us here are. Changing coaches every 3-5 years isn't going to work for us imo. In order to attract better coaches in the future, the athletic department needs to show potential coaches that we are willing to give them time to build their system. Not only build the system, but then put players into their system that fit the mold so to speak.
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This argument would hold a lot more water if the system in place seemed like it was working at all. This team is no better than it was last year.
 

Gopherprof said:
The idea that we should hold onto an unsuccessful coach because the next coach might also be unsuccessful is the height of insanity. I'm not saying Kill should be fired after three years, but the argument that we'll never be able to do any better is also garbage.

Offer 2 mil a year for the next coach and we'll have a lot of qualified choices.
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I don't think thats what people are saying. I think they are saying that anyone who comes here including Kill will need time to establish a program. Wisconsin's new coach didn't need to do much as he had a program in place. If we were to bring someone else in, we would be starting over. How much time are we going to give that guy and his staff. Then we get rid of him and potential hires would look at this and say "I have to be a top B1G program by year four or I'm out? With nothing to work with? No thanks."
 


patrick08 said:
I don't think thats what people are saying. I think they are saying that anyone who comes here including Kill will need time to establish a program. Wisconsin's new coach didn't need to do much as he had a program in place. If we were to bring someone else in, we would be starting over. How much time are we going to give that guy and his staff. Then we get rid of him and potential hires would look at this and say "I have to be a top B1G program by year four or I'm out? With nothing to work with? No thanks."
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It's this ridiculous hyperbole that is muddling the argument. A top B1G program? We can't even lose a game by a respectable margin. We're not even in the same league.
 

savagerube said:
Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century..
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Are there examples of coaches in the Big Ten in the last 15 years who did not turn it around in five years but did so when given more time?
 

WindyCityGopher said:
The facilities argument loses me when I consider the success Northwestern has had over nearly 20 years, including 2 B1G titles and now regular appearances in the Top 25. Their facilities are brutal -- worse than ours (they're in the early stages of a $220 million fund raising drive to build a new athletics complex, but they haven't even broken ground yet). The biggest difference between Northwestern and Minnesota is that Gary Barnett changed the entire culture there in the '90s, then the tragic death of Randy Walker led them to a young, dynamic and terrific coach in Pat Fitzgerald. That level of coaching is what the Gophers haven't had since Lou Holtz shot across the sky. Northwestern has higher academic standards and worse facilities than the U, yet currently are much more successful. Go figure.
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Correct. We are not even near the bottom concerning facilities. Its the same old arguments for the last 30 years. What I see is that when we trim several sports, close a deal with a significant donor, get somebody who knows how to market the program, and loosen up the game day events, we might have a better chance. We can fire the coach every 5 years and hire the top coach in the country whom ever he might be but nothing will change, he will get fired too. Yes mason lost some heart breakers but really wonder where we would be today if we could have not had the Brewster era. Jerry kill and his staff told us this was how it would be up till now. This staff has opened some eyes to reality in the administration and will continue to do so. Talking about changing coaches is nonsense. I feel like shredding my tickets many times but by Sunday morning I realize that its our culture at the U that needs a major overhaul and it is slowly changing.
 

I'm sorry EG. If you are going to respond to my post please at least respond to my post. Otherwise just post.

I didn't say Mason was doing well, I said I didn't disagree with the firing, I didn't like that we extended him and the fired him.

We can have the Brewster talk again and again and again...which I have no interest in doing. What I simply said was at the end of the Brewster era we were below the Mason era. If you disagree, that's cool. Not many would agree with you. Brewster didn't recruit offensive linemen for two years. If you don't think that had a serious impact...look at our O-Line now and ask yourself...where are the freaking Seniors and RS Seniors? Can't win without offensive linemen.

As far as the coaching search...my opinion of Maturi is well documented on this board. But in the end, that was our AD and he was responsible for the hiring of Brewster after passing on several better candidates. Replacing Brewster was a clown show. Maturi got told no by Hoke, Golden & Edsal (Ed said yes then said no and that has been confirmed). He contacted Kill on a Friday, interviewed him on Sun after his loss in the MAC championship game and announced him on Tuesday. This after spending 2 months on a search with a search firm, yada, yada and then met and hired his guy in under 72 hours. Huh...sounds like a desperate hire.

And as far as the BB program goes, I love the Ricco hire...but doesn't matter how you look at it, we hired a guy with exactly 1 year of D-1 head coaching experience who has proven not one thing in his career. Not that he can recruit, not that he can coach, manage the clock, offense, defense or being able to make sure kids go to class, yada yada.

EG#9 said:
Once again, the Gophers are not performing as well as they did under Tim Brewster! People seem to only remember the years Glen Mason went 5-3 and forget everything else. The year Glen Mason was fired, the Gophers started out 0-5 in conference play, needed to block a field goal to beat NDSU, and won there final 3 games against Michigan State which had like half a team due to a major discipline issue and fired their coach, Indiana whose coach had passed away, and Iowa who had Drew Tate basically telling the whole state of Iowa to "suck it". That 3-5 season was accomplished with a bunch of Seniors as the best players including a 3 year starter at QB and Matt Spaeth at TE. To make matters worse, recruiting had fallen to the very bottom of the Big Ten for 3 consecutive years and the very few returning players of any acclaim (Alex Daniels, Dom Jones) got kicked off the team before/during Spring ball. Brewster had to start TWO guys he recruited late as true freshman in the secondary.

Gophers never had the worst facilities in the Big Ten, Northwestern's are currently worse and argument could have been made for a few others as well.

When we had a search after Mason, we had two guys in Charlie Strong and Lane Kiffin that WANTED the job who a bunch of Gopher fans claimed would NEVER take it. When we had a search after Brewster it was done by a lame duck AD whose boss was a lame duck president. Oh yeah, and the guys who turned us down took the jobs at Michigan and Miami (FL). When you are unable/unwilling to spend big $$$ on a coach and your candidates are not being hired by those who will ultimately judge them...you're not going to get the cream of the crop. Would you say Tennessee is not a desirable place to coach football because of the Dooley/Jones hires in recent years?

As for the basketball hire, there is no evidence to suggest we were "forced" to take a coach with just one year head coaching experience. About the only thing we know for a fact is that we got turned by Shaka Smart...just like everyone else. Teague/Ellis clearly wanted a coach that would recruit better and play an exciting style of basketball. I'd much rather take a chance on Pitino than grab a mid major guy who's never recruited with the big boys. It was a risky choice, but it was a swing for the fences type of hire as opposed to a safe one. Keep in mind, UCLA had to settle for Steve Alford and had to pay him huge $$$. If Teague gave that same contract to Alford, he'd be roasted by everyone.

We don't have a proven coach laying around, but neither does anyone else. I do think we should wait until the season plays out before making a decision on what to do. That said, the preemptive "we should keep a guy even if he goes 1-7 or 0-8 in the conference"is silly.
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drinks at Northpoint said:
He had 4 total wins his first year and 6 his second. Which would have been enough for the media and internet posters to start calling for his head in this town.
He also had years of 7 wins and 6 wins recently, which would have created a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# storm in this town.
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You conveniently left out year 3, which was 9 wins. Unless you see the Gophers getting 5 more wins this year to equal that. And there were plenty of questions raised after the first two years, about whether it was too early to hire Fitz because he was only a position coach at the time (sound familiar?). Fitz was Randy Walker's succession plan, just several years early. Comparing that hire to Kill, who has like decades of head coaching experience, is not apt.
 

Gopherprof said:
The idea that we should hold onto an unsuccessful coach because the next coach might also be unsuccessful is the height of insanity. I'm not saying Kill should be fired after three years, but the argument that we'll never be able to do any better is also garbage.

Offer 2 mil a year for the next coach and we'll have a lot of qualified choices.
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You are a little out of the loop Gopherdoof. Alabama is talking about giving Saban $10 mil per year in his next extension. BB left Wisconsin for Arkansas $3.2 mil and over $2.5 mil for assistants.

Plus, coaches know you win with better players and we haven't had a legitimate top 25 recruiting class in 60 years. So you have to get enough money to last you the rest of your life because even our temporary replacement head coaches can't find jobs after leaving here (See Horton who finally got on as the RB coach at San Diego St.).

We would need to pay someone $5 mil per year and our MN sensibilities just wouldn't allow that.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Are there examples of coaches in the Big Ten in the last 15 years who did not turn it around in five years but did so when given more time?
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This a million times. The OP states that there have only been two coaches in the last 15 years that have turned programs around. I'm not sure why Brady Hoke is excluded from that list, other than Michigan doesn't count, but if Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska are all automatically disqualified, we're really only talking about 6 coaching spots over 15 years, which is a pretty damn small sample.

But let's go down that list, shall we?

Illinois
Ron Zook (2005-2011)
-First five years in B1G (12-28)
-Two years after that (6-10)

Ron Turner (1997-2004)
-First five years (15-25)
-Three years after (5-19)

Indiana
Bill Lynch (2007-2010)
-First four years (6-26)

Gerry Dinardo (2002-2004)
-First three seasons (3-21)

Cam Cameron (1997-2001)
-First five seasons (12-28)

Michigan State
John L. Smith (2003-2006)
-First four seasons (12-20)

Bobby Williams (2000-2002)
-First three seasons (6-15)

Purdue
Danny Hope (2009-2012)
-First four seasons (13-19)


Now, which of those coaches above deserved more time? Any of them? Did Illinois really benefit by two more years of Ron Zook or three more years of Ron Turner?

Four years is enough. If progress hasn't been made by that point, it never will be.
 



You are a little out of the loop Gopherdoof. Alabama is talking about giving Saban $10 mil per year in his next extension. BB left Wisconsin for Arkansas $3.2 mil and over $2.5 mil for assistants.
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Wow....good one. Well I guess we can scratch Nick Saban off our list. If only there was more than one college coach in the country.


We would need to pay someone $5 mil per year
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You're an idiot. I'm tired of being kind about this kind of stuff. Just don't reply to me. I don't care.
 



savagerube said:
Brewster inherited the best skilled position player (Decker) at the U since Maroney. He also inherited a competent QB vs the WR at QB that Kill inherited; not to mention the academic mess Kill's been improving over the last few years. Technically Brew inherited a bowl team and Kill.. Well he inherited a team that was led by a interim coach.
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That "Brew inherited a bowl team" argument is nonsense & I think you know it, which is why you phrased it that way. It ignores the glaring changes in personnel. It's like saying the Ravens are Super Bowl champs so anything less this year means bad coaching. Mason sure as heck knew we were in bad shape because he scrambled to recruit SEVEN Jucos (that's a staggering # of Jucos in one class, much less on the same side of the ball) just to plug the gaping holes on defensive the next year. You mention the academic mess Kill inherited, but what about the mess Brew inherited? DJ, Massey, Daniels, Henderson all booted for rape scandal, McField booted for bank robbery? It's not like things were going well when Brew took over & then they declined. Overall the program had fallen off greatly & things looked bleak. I'll grant you we had a promising young QB/WR combo Weber/Decker, which is why (along with some solid recruiting/coaching on D) we were able to get to back-to-back bowl games in years 2 & 3.

Brew's on-field results were on par with Mason's last years (no step backwards) & as good or better than Kills thus far. What got Brewster fired was his brash style which just doesn't fly with Minnesotans.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
That "Brew inherited a bowl team" argument is nonsense & I think you know it, which is why you phrased it that way. It ignores the glaring changes in personnel. It's like saying the Ravens are Super Bowl champs so anything less this year means bad coaching. Mason sure as heck knew we were in bad shape because he scrambled to recruit SEVEN Jucos (that's a staggering # of Jucos in one class, much less on the same side of the ball) just to plug the gaping holes on defensive the next year. You mention the academic mess Kill inherited, but what about the mess Brew inherited? DJ, Massey, Daniels, Henderson all booted for rape scandal, McField booted for bank robbery? It's not like things were going well when Brew took over & then they declined. Overall the program had fallen off greatly & things looked bleak. I'll grant you we had a promising young QB/WR combo Weber/Decker, which is why (along with some solid recruiting/coaching on D) we were able to get to back-to-back bowl games in years 2 & 3. Brew's on-field results were on par with Mason's last years (no step backwards) & as good or better than Kills thus far. What got Brewster fired was his brash style which just doesn't fly with Minnesotans.
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FWIW I loved Brew's style lol he just needed to find some coordinators and a system to stick with.
 

savagerube said:
Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century..
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Kirk Ferentz went from 1-10 in Year One to a bowl win in Year 3, and was undefeated in the B1G, played in a BCS game, and finished Top 10 in the country in Year 4. He is currently in his 15th year at Iowa.
 

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