Then what?

[mnsportsgeek]

“We need about three recruiting classes to get this thing turned around,” he said. “I think we’re moving in the right direction.”
-Jerry Kill 3-5-13

The quite I'm thinking of was said shortly after he was hired. Not in 20 freaking 13.

 

[drinks at Northpoint]

The facilities argument loses me when I consider the success Northwestern has had over nearly 20 years, including 2 B1G titles and now regular appearances in the Top 25. Their facilities are brutal -- worse than ours (they're in the early stages of a $220 million fund raising drive to build a new athletics complex, but they haven't even broken ground yet). The biggest difference between Northwestern and Minnesota is that Gary Barnett changed the entire culture there in the '90s, then the tragic death of Randy Walker led them to a young, dynamic and terrific coach in Pat Fitzgerald. That level of coaching is what the Gophers haven't had since Lou Holtz shot across the sky. Northwestern has higher academic standards and worse facilities than the U, yet currently are much more successful. Go figure.

Excellent point, but hasn't Fitzgerald been there about 7-8 years. He had some lean years in there at the beginning before he built the program to where it is now. We are in the middle of year 3.

 

[littlebigboy]

I can't believe all the iDIOTS that think Tony Dungy will come and coach here or anywhere. We are starting 1 jr.and no srs. on the O-line, and a So. and RS Fr at QB. Kill IS building a program the right way, and by 2015 all you know it alls will get to eat crow. We might not be a national power, but we will compete in the conf. and have a solid foundation where we will be able to reload and not rebuild.;

 

[savagerube]

I know it's a "what if" but Leidner doesn't fumble and also hits Donovahn Jones on that wide open look (would've been 6) you're looking at a completely different game. "What it's" are getting old but 2 short years ago it was 58-0 at the big house. There's improvement. You can't right a ship that's been off track for 50 years overnight. I Agee with the OP.. Another coaching search isn't going to rectify anything.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

Coaches always seemed to have five years, but then it became four, then three, and now they're being fired during the third season. I hoped Kill would have five, but next year might be crucial if MN wins only one or two in conference. Facilities seem good to me. Hard to gauge how the seizures play out in relation to recruiting, but 4 and 5-star players are not flocking to Minneapolis. If he keeps missing games or parts of games, that may become a p.r. factor Teague would have to take into consideration. Watching Northwestern tonight, you get a sense of how limited our offensive play is, especially in the third year of a new program. Art Briles at Baylor, James Franklin at Vanderbilt, generated more excitement on offense early on. Nevertheless, starting over would be a nightmare, barring a miracle hire - and Teague's BB hire is not encouraging.

 

[GopherGod]

“We need about three recruiting classes to get this thing turned around,” he said. “I think we’re moving in the right direction.”
-Jerry Kill 3-5-13

You could bring in 10 recruiting classes, but f they are consistently dead last or close to it in the conference then he won't win much.

 

[Buttcheeks McGaffigan]

Coaches always seemed to have five years, but then it became four, then three, and now they're being fired during the third season. I hoped Kill would have five, but next year might be crucial if MN wins only one or two in conference. Facilities seem good to me. Hard to gauge how the seizures play out in relation to recruiting, but 4 and 5-star players are not flocking to Minneapolis. If he keeps missing games or parts of games, that may become a p.r. factor Teague would have to take into consideration. Watching Northwestern tonight, you get a sense of how limited our offensive play is, especially in the third year of a new program. Art Briles at Baylor, James Franklin at Vanderbilt, generated more excitement on offense early on. Nevertheless, starting over would be a nightmare, barring a miracle hire - and Teague's BB hire is not encouraging.

You're basing this on what exactly?

 

[savagerube]

The facilities argument loses me when I consider the success Northwestern has had over nearly 20 years, including 2 B1G titles and now regular appearances in the Top 25. Their facilities are brutal -- worse than ours (they're in the early stages of a $220 million fund raising drive to build a new athletics complex, but they haven't even broken ground yet). The biggest difference between Northwestern and Minnesota is that Gary Barnett changed the entire culture there in the '90s, then the tragic death of Randy Walker led them to a young, dynamic and terrific coach in Pat Fitzgerald. That level of coaching is what the Gophers haven't had since Lou Holtz shot across the sky. Northwestern has higher academic standards and worse facilities than the U, yet currently are much more successful. Go figure.

Northwestern now has worse facilities but you can discount the near 30 years at the dome. Before 2009, the gophers had the WORST facilities by far and the program is still suffering.

 

[savagerube]

Northwestern now has worse facilities but you can discount the near 30 years at the dome. Before 2009, the gophers had the WORST facilities by far and the program is still suffering.

*CAN'T

Damn iphone

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Northwestern now has worse facilities but you can discount the near 30 years at the dome. Before 2009, the gophers had the WORST facilities by far and the program is still suffering.

I'll never argue with you about the crappiness of the Dome, but have you ever been to Ryan Field? The place is a sh!t hole and has been for as long as the Dome was around. And wasn't the Bierman building built in the mid '80s? So while it's old and outdated in 2013, in it's day it was much better than anything Northwestern had (or has) while they were winning conference championships.

 

[Former Goofer]

For all those that want the coaching staff fired for losing to a better team, with two weeks rest, on the road...
For all those that want Kill to step down because of the seizures...
Then what?
Another coaching search, accompanied by all the Tony Dungy dreamers. Having all the mid level candidates look at the worst facilities in the conference and turning us down. Listening to all the talk radio guys mock the program the same as the basketball search. Starting over with a new coach and new philosophy. Probably lose another recruiting class, etc.
I'm not asking to argue if we need a new coach, only your thoughts on what would happen next.
I think the highest percentage for success for the University of Minnesota is to keep building the program and work with Coach Kill to control his seizures.
I don't think his seizures affect recruiting nearly as much as the lack of facilities.
I don't think the plan was to compete for the Rose Bowl this year, it was to be competitive in years 4, 5, and 6.
This program was at rock bottom a few years ago. It is making improvement. I see a team that is getting better. Defense is in position to make plays. They tackle well. They are a well coached team. They just lack dynamic players.
Like I said, our highest percentage to be a competitive team is to continue building the program, brick by brick.
Rip away.

Based on what? Because it sure isn't the play of the Gophers. So far the only difference between Brewster and Kill is that Kill doesn't promise the moon. The results have been extremely similar.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

We ain't losing because of facilities...we are losing because their players and better than our players. And getting back on the coaching merry go round again won't solve that problem.

It isn't like when Mason was here that we were recruiting in the top half of the Big Ten. Mason did more with less and the worst facilities in the Big Ten. But Mason teams also choked away games. Mason didn't make friends and he threatened to leave over and over. I didn't hate the Mason firing, I hated that he was extended and then fired. SMH.

Brewster...well it was what it was and it set us back to pre-mason suckiness.

Kill & Co are here, they love it here, they want to win here, they have a system and a plan. Is it perfect? Probably not...but what plan is?

What I do know is that we went through a search after Mason, and again after Brewster & we weren't seeing interest from first or second tier coaches. The BB program just went through a search and we had to take a guy with 1, ONE, UNO, SINGLE, ONE FREAKING year of head coaching experience at the D-1 level. We aren't a hot spot to come coach (unless you are talking hockey).

If Kill decides he can't do the job...OK. If Kill hires/promotes an Asst. Coach to Asst. Head Coach and has him run the sidelines and game mgmt so we have back up. OK.

We don't have a Pat Fitzgerald or a Barry Alvarez laying around so replacing Kill doesn't make much sense.

 

[savagerube]

I'll never argue with you about the crappiness of the Dome, but have you ever been to Ryan Field? The place is a sh!t hole and has been for as long as the Dome was around. And wasn't the Bierman building built in the mid '80s? So while it's old and outdated in 2013, in it's day it was much better than anything Northwestern had (or has) while they were winning conference championships.

Yeah I've been there and you're right, it's outdated and a crap hole but it's on campus.. It makes a big difference, especially at the U where your student section is arguably the worst (attendance-wise) in the B1G. The dome took that element away: tailgating, frat row, atmosphere in general. Now do the aforementioned luxuries of being on campus make a difference with wins and losses?? Hard to quantify but I truly believe the after effects of being in the dome are still lingering. But I might be alone on that.

 

[Hates Monikers]

Excellent point, but hasn't Fitzgerald been there about 7-8 years. He had some lean years in there at the beginning before he built the program to where it is now. We are in the middle of year 3.

Fitzgerald had two BT wins in his first season, three in his second and five in his third and fourth.

 

[Sparlimb]

Fitzgerald had two BT wins in his first season, three in his second and five in his third and fourth.

You forget the part where he was a School Hero hallowed and was pretty much given as much time as he needed to get the program going again. Kill has no allegiance to our team here, so that doesn't help. If he can overcome his illness, he'll be given his 4th year. I think he deserves that, again if and only if he's able to fulfill his duties and be on the sidelines...

 

[AEmerson40]

I'd wait a game or two more and if the offense continues to look as it has the past two games, I'd try to find a more competent OC to replace Limegrover. Other than him, I have a decent amount of respect still for this coaching staff (the exception being our QB coach - seemingly zero improvement from Gray, Shortel, or Nelson over their respective two years), and I believe they should be allotted one more year unless we get blown out for the rest of the season or Kill has multiple game day seizures.

 

[MinnesotaBoiler99]

Watched the game with some buddies today and one of them was venting after the game about Kill and Co. He said that every Big Ten loss for Kill has been by double digits. We called BS and decided to look it up and it wasn't far from the truth.

Kill is now 4-14 in Big Ten play and 12 of those 14 losses were by 15+ points. Only losses by less than 2 scores were MSU 31-24 in 2011 and NW 21-13 in 2012.

I think Kill should be given every opportunity to succeed here. Like many have mentioned already he's the best they can do right now for coach so you might as well hitch your wagon to him and hope his track record continues.

 

[savagerube]

You forget the part where he was a School Hero hallowed and was pretty much given as much time as he needed to get the program going again. Kill has no allegiance to our team here, so that doesn't help. If he can overcome his illness, he'll be given his 4th year. I think he deserves that, again if and only if he's able to fulfill his duties and be on the sidelines...

Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century..

 

[MinnesotaBoiler99]

Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century..

Joe Tiller would beg to differ. Went 9-3 (6-2) in 1st year.

EDIT: OK, that was 16 years ago. My bad.

 

[book]

Today still shows me what the gophers can not do for 30 years - stop people on 3rd and long - our pass defense was and always is the worst!

 

[Halsey Hall]

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not... but I listened to the radio pre-game interview with Karl Mecklenberg (former U player and NFL pro-bowler) who knew almost nothing about the Gophers and had not seen a single game this season. We may overestimate former players' attachement to the U of M.

He could hardly name a former Gopher teammate that he's friends with. Too many hits to the head??? I could name 40 teammates from 50 years ago

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I don't want to lean too heavily on "ifs and buts", but if you were to take away the first couple of minutes of the game (Leidner's fumble) and the last few minutes of the game, it was very competetive. Looking back to 2010 and 2011, we have made a good deal of progress in my opinion. In 2011 we looked like a high school team playing against a college team on a couple of Saturdays. Lets wait and see a little bit more before we go into collective panic mode.

I agree with most of this post. We were mostly competitive today, but you've forgotten that last week we looked no better than 2 years ago. So which one is the real Gophers? Who knows?

Leidner needs to take better care of the ball. He's had several fumbles that he/we recovered so save his ass & today he lost one that cost us. Later Leidner took a solid shot & Nelson came in for a snap. The announcers replayed the hit on Leidner, mentioning that he went down hard & had to come out. NONSENSE! He coughed up the ball again on that play & luckily it went out of bounds. He got away with another one & that's why he came out for a play.

Also, Limegrover has a set of balls like a squirrel.

 

[ProfessorBum]

Originally Posted by savagerube

Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century


Because we are all growing older. We can't have 10-year long experiments or testing of the waters. I'm sick of having to wait an entire generation for some Minnesota team (college or pro) to catch fire for a year or two, only to peter out again. This sucks. I've probably only got 20 years of life left. I'd like to see us in a Rose Bowl some day. And I'd like to watch it from the cheap seats in Pasadena rather than from Heaven (as nice as the view would no doubt be).

 

[EG#9]

We ain't losing because of facilities...we are losing because their players and better than our players. And getting back on the coaching merry go round again won't solve that problem.

It isn't like when Mason was here that we were recruiting in the top half of the Big Ten. Mason did more with less and the worst facilities in the Big Ten. But Mason teams also choked away games. Mason didn't make friends and he threatened to leave over and over. I didn't hate the Mason firing, I hated that he was extended and then fired. SMH.

Brewster...well it was what it was and it set us back to pre-mason suckiness.

Kill & Co are here, they love it here, they want to win here, they have a system and a plan. Is it perfect? Probably not...but what plan is?

What I do know is that we went through a search after Mason, and again after Brewster & we weren't seeing interest from first or second tier coaches. The BB program just went through a search and we had to take a guy with 1, ONE, UNO, SINGLE, ONE FREAKING year of head coaching experience at the D-1 level. We aren't a hot spot to come coach (unless you are talking hockey).

If Kill decides he can't do the job...OK. If Kill hires/promotes an Asst. Coach to Asst. Head Coach and has him run the sidelines and game mgmt so we have back up. OK.

We don't have a Pat Fitzgerald or a Barry Alvarez laying around so replacing Kill doesn't make much sense.

Once again, the Gophers are not performing as well as they did under Tim Brewster! People seem to only remember the years Glen Mason went 5-3 and forget everything else. The year Glen Mason was fired, the Gophers started out 0-5 in conference play, needed to block a field goal to beat NDSU, and won there final 3 games against Michigan State which had like half a team due to a major discipline issue and fired their coach, Indiana whose coach had passed away, and Iowa who had Drew Tate basically telling the whole state of Iowa to "suck it". That 3-5 season was accomplished with a bunch of Seniors as the best players including a 3 year starter at QB and Matt Spaeth at TE. To make matters worse, recruiting had fallen to the very bottom of the Big Ten for 3 consecutive years and the very few returning players of any acclaim (Alex Daniels, Dom Jones) got kicked off the team before/during Spring ball. Brewster had to start TWO guys he recruited late as true freshman in the secondary.

Gophers never had the worst facilities in the Big Ten, Northwestern's are currently worse and argument could have been made for a few others as well.

When we had a search after Mason, we had two guys in Charlie Strong and Lane Kiffin that WANTED the job who a bunch of Gopher fans claimed would NEVER take it. When we had a search after Brewster it was done by a lame duck AD whose boss was a lame duck president. Oh yeah, and the guys who turned us down took the jobs at Michigan and Miami (FL). When you are unable/unwilling to spend big $$$ on a coach and your candidates are not being hired by those who will ultimately judge them...you're not going to get the cream of the crop. Would you say Tennessee is not a desirable place to coach football because of the Dooley/Jones hires in recent years?

As for the basketball hire, there is no evidence to suggest we were "forced" to take a coach with just one year head coaching experience. About the only thing we know for a fact is that we got turned by Shaka Smart...just like everyone else. Teague/Ellis clearly wanted a coach that would recruit better and play an exciting style of basketball. I'd much rather take a chance on Pitino than grab a mid major guy who's never recruited with the big boys. It was a risky choice, but it was a swing for the fences type of hire as opposed to a safe one. Keep in mind, UCLA had to settle for Steve Alford and had to pay him huge $$$. If Teague gave that same contract to Alford, he'd be roasted by everyone.

We don't have a proven coach laying around, but neither does anyone else. I do think we should wait until the season plays out before making a decision on what to do. That said, the preemptive "we should keep a guy even if he goes 1-7 or 0-8 in the conference"is silly.

 

[savagerube]

Originally Posted by savagerube Why does Kill only get 4 years to turn around a program in the B1G when there's only been two coaches in the last 15 years (Dantonio and Fitzgerald) who've turned a program around in 5 years or less?? Pretty high expectations for a program that hasn't won a conference championship almost half a century Because we are all growing older. We can't have 10-year long experiments or testing of the waters. I'm sick of having to wait an entire generation for some Minneosta team (college or pro) to catch fire for a year or two, only to peter out again. This sucks. I've probably only got 20 years of life left. I'd like to see us in a Rose Bowl some day. And I'd like to watch it from the cheap seats in Pasadena rather than from Heaven (as nice as the view would no doubt be).

I can't argue against that.. But not asking for 10 years.. Asking for 5 years for Kill. Sticking with Fitzgerald in Evanston has paid off even though they slipped back in their "progress" over the last 2 years.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Once again, the Gophers are not performing as well as they did under Tim Brewster! People seem to only remember the years Glen Mason went 5-3 and forget everything else. The year Glen Mason was fired, the Gophers started out 0-5 in conference play, needed to block a field goal to beat NDSU, and won there final 3 games against Michigan State which had like half a team due to a major discipline issue and fired their coach, Indiana whose coach had passed away, and Iowa who had Drew Tate basically telling the whole state of Iowa to "suck it". That 3-5 season was accomplished with a bunch of Seniors as the best players including a 3 year starter at QB and Matt Spaeth at TE. To make matters worse, recruiting had fallen to the very bottom of the Big Ten for 3 consecutive years and the very few returning players of any acclaim (Alex Daniels, Dom Jones) got kicked off the team before/during Spring ball. Brewster had to start TWO guys he recruited late as true freshman in the secondary.

Gophers never had the worst facilities in the Big Ten, Northwestern's are currently worse and argument could have been made for a few others as well.

When we had a search after Mason, we had two guys in Charlie Strong and Lane Kiffin that WANTED the job who a bunch of Gopher fans claimed would NEVER take it. When we had a search after Brewster it was done by a lame duck AD whose boss was a lame duck president. Oh yeah, and the guys who turned us down took the jobs at Michigan and Miami (FL). When you are unable/unwilling to spend big $$$ on a coach and your candidates are not being hired by those who will ultimately judge them...you're not going to get the cream of the crop. Would you say Tennessee is not a desirable place to coach football because of the Dooley/Jones hires in recent years?

As for the basketball hire, there is no evidence to suggest we were "forced" to take a coach with just one year head coaching experience. About the only thing we know for a fact is that we got turned by Shaka Smart...just like everyone else. Teague/Ellis clearly wanted a coach that would recruit better and play an exciting style of basketball. I'd much rather take a chance on Pitino than grab a mid major guy who's never recruited with the big boys. It was a risky choice, but it was a swing for the fences type of hire as opposed to a safe one. Keep in mind, UCLA had to settle for Steve Alford and had to pay him huge $$$. If Teague gave that same contract to Alford, he'd be roasted by everyone.

We don't have a proven coach laying around, but neither does anyone else. I do think we should wait until the season plays out before making a decision on what to do. That said, the preemptive "we should keep a guy even if he goes 1-7 or 0-8 in the conference"is silly.

I love Mason & remember the best years fondly, but he'd spit the bit & was fading fast. The Barber/Maroney/Eslinger/Setterstrom days were over. Gary Russel was the last great one & he flunked out. The Mason cupboard on Defense was so bare that he'd recruited (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while?) SEVEN Jucos on defense for the following year, 5 of whom were expected to start or be major contributors. Then we lost DJ, our Captain & best D player + Keith Massey who was expected to start at one Safety position + Alex Daniels who was expected to start somewhere (DE/RB). Let's not forget forget Robert McField, the DE from KC who turned out to be wanted for bank robbery back in Missouri. I'm not saying Brewster was a good coach or that I'd rather have him than Kill, just saying that what Brew inherited was worse than what Kill inherited.

Desi Steib.

 

[savagerube]

I love Mason & remember the best years fondly, but he'd spit the bit & was fading fast. The Barber/Maroney/Eslinger/Setterstrom days were over. Gary Russel was the last great one & he flunked out. The Mason cupboard on Defense was so bare that he'd recruited (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while?) SEVEN Jucos on defense for the following year, 5 of whom were expected to start or be major contributors. Then we lost DJ, our Captain & best D player + Keith Massey who was expected to start at one Safety position + Alex Daniels who was expected to start somewhere (DE/RB). Let's not forget forget Robert McField, the DE from KC who turned out to be wanted for bank robbery back in Missouri. I'm not saying Brewster was a good coach or that I'd rather have him than Kill, just saying that what Brew inherited was worse than what Kill inherited. Desi Steib.

Brewster inherited the best skilled position player (Decker) at the U since Maroney. He also inherited a competent QB vs the WR at QB that Kill inherited; not to mention the academic mess Kill's been improving over the last few years. Technically Brew inherited a bowl team and Kill.. Well he inherited a team that was led by a interim coach.

 

[forever a gopher]

Brewster Big 10 record: 6-21 (.222 winning %) 20+ point losses: 9
Kill Big 10 record: 4-13 (.235 winning %) 20+ point losses: 8
The Brewster era is generally considered one of the biggest dumpster fires of Gopher football...At what point do we actually look at the record and stop patting the back of the coaching staff because they're "turning the program around the right way"?

 

[Former Goofer]

Brewster Big 10 record: 6-21 (.222 winning %) 20+ point losses: 9
Kill Big 10 record: 4-13 (.235 winning %) 20+ point losses: 8
The Brewster era is generally considered one of the biggest dumpster fires of Gopher football...At what point do we actually look at the record and stop patting the back of the coaching staff because they're "turning the program around the right way"?

Like I said before, the only difference between what Kill has done and what Brewster did for us was that talked way too much.

 

[skauma]

Its not the necessarily the loss that people are upset with, its the clear coaching blunders that continue to occur. For example, before going into the half, we had more than a minute to go, with a few time outs, and the decision is to play conservative...at least try to put some points up. More than a minute and 3 timeouts is an eternity in college football. Go get some dam points.