The cynic thread

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btowngopher said:
The local media is already negative on him. But VERY CLEARLY his personality is sustainable with his players. I don't get the fans here, who cares what a coaches shtick is. I want a winner. If you want to hate him for his style instead of his results that's fine. But his style does not indicate poor future results. Pete Carroll is one of many examples of similarly "shticky" coaches who have won.
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This is pretty much where I am as well. I don't care what he says or does. If the players/recruits like it, I'm all for it.
 

CentralGopher said:
I'm skeptical that all of his energy, enthusiasm, and antics will have a long lasting effect on the program. I think it may wear off/out eventually before we reach where we want to be or before he leaves for greener pastures. I am struggling to find another coach that has that kind of rah rah style that has his team at the top. I could be wrong on that though. Harbaugh comes to mind but even he isnt that over the top.


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Dabo Swinney
 

CentralGopher said:
I'm skeptical that all of his energy, enthusiasm, and antics will have a long lasting effect on the program. I think it may wear off/out eventually before we reach where we want to be or before he leaves for greener pastures. I am struggling to find another coach that has that kind of rah rah style that has his team at the top. I could be wrong on that though. Harbaugh comes to mind but even he isnt that over the top.


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Pete Carroll
 

Winnipegopher said:
Well you asked, so I will answer.

I am not a fan of the "schtick". I.E. His energy, phrases and elite mantras.

In Fleck's public persona, I see a character and not a fully developed person. Brewster was who he was (a loud, gregarious, somewhat arrogant personality), but to me Fleck is so over the top that he appears to be a carefully crafted caricature- like he is always acting. I just don't see that as sustainable to the players, fans and especially media. .
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I sympathize with this, however he kept it up for four years at WMU and people seemed to buy in and it certainly was effective. Lots of today's kids, including footballers, are wired a ton differently than my generation. Heck, I see it in my grandchildren. I can see where this "carefully crafted characature" could really draw a generation that Claeys was never going to reach. It isn't any wonder that it is an effective recruiting tool.

I'm hopeful with a dash of skepticism. Certainly hopeful that he can light 'me up. I can hardly wait for fall even though we haven't yet seen spring.
 


I'm sick about 1) not keeping Sawvel 2) hiring a DC whose departure Arkansas fans are celebrating.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Good post. I wonder if many folks here have ever worked at companies that don't have a great corporate culture (don't care enough about the customers specifically)? I am only a fan of Gopher football, but I agree with you that there were red flags this season with Claeys. Turning around a culture with a football program is hard, but I will support Fleck and Coyle in getting that done by keeping tickets and talking positively about the program with folks when I can.
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Much appreciated! You understand the culture aspect and the difficulty in turning it around in a corporate setting which is helpful in understanding how involved it will be. This is about 10 times the scale that I've attempted. If these guys can do it, I'm all in.
 

I think we need to separate cynicism from skepticism. There's some good healthy skepticism, as there should be. There's also some unhealthy skepticism along the lines of, we've been poor to mediocre for so long, that's the way it'll always be. There's little Pat Reusse-style cynicism here; the closest thing to it is the insistence that he'll leave for another program the first chance he gets. That might be a legitimate fear, but it's an irrational analysis/expectation.
 

If you were an 18 year old kid and TC and Fleck both showed up at your front door and asked you to commit the next 4-5 years of your life to them, who are you most likely to follow? Just saying...that is an easy one and the same answer is why we have a new coach.
 



MNgradinWI said:
If you were an 18 year old kid and TC and Fleck both showed up at your front door and asked you to commit the next 4-5 years of your life to them, who are you most likely to follow? Just saying...that is an easy one and the same answer is why we have a new coach.
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I wouldn't say it's an easy one. Is the 18 y/o a DB or LB? I'd commit to Claeys/sawvel in an instant. They have been taking under recruited kids and putting them in the NFL at an impressive clip. If I was a RB? Heck yes, we only run the ball. If I was a QB or WR... probably not. I can tell you if Fleck walked in my parent's house when I was 18 and talked like he does my Father would have kicked him out.
 


I'm kind of torn with Fleck. I'm not sure if he is a coach 'em up type who can get under-recruited talent to produce, but I can see him being successful luring recruits with big time offers to come to the U. I'm not a big fan of all the catch phrases either.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
I'm kind of torn with Fleck. I'm not sure if he is a coach 'em up type who can get under-recruited talent to produce, but I can see him being successful luring recruits with big time offers to come to the U. I'm not a big fan of all the catch phrases either.
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The key for a guy like that is to surround himself with great assistants. That was the thing Brew struggled with in that he had the recruiting part but couldn't get settled with his coordinators and kept trying to change the style of offense we were running. Kill was the flip side to that in that he had the assistants and systems but wasn't all that great in recruiting top end talent.

I am not huge on all the catchphrases as well but recruits and players seem to eat that stuff up. Same way players love all the jersey combos and new looks whereas most of us old farts would just like the team to settle on a look and stick with it. I can see Fleck playing very well with today's recruits and being someone that players would be excited to come play for.
 



MNVCGUY said:
The key for a guy like that is to surround himself with great assistants. That was the thing Brew struggled with in that he had the recruiting part but couldn't get settled with his coordinators and kept trying to change the style of offense we were running. Kill was the flip side to that in that he had the assistants and systems but wasn't all that great in recruiting top end talent.

I am not huge on all the catchphrases as well but recruits and players seem to eat that stuff up. Same way players love all the jersey combos and new looks whereas most of us old farts would just like the team to settle on a look and stick with it. I can see Fleck playing very well with today's recruits and being someone that players would be excited to come play for.
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Good points.
 




Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
I'm kind of torn with Fleck. I'm not sure if he is a coach 'em up type who can get under-recruited talent to produce, but I can see him being successful luring recruits with big time offers to come to the U. I'm not a big fan of all the catch phrases either.
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Well after this years draft he will have put two offensive tackles into the nfl, who were the last two gopher OTs to be drafted?
 

Also he might have a QB and WR drafted this year too. Maybe some other players I'm not familiar with, but clearly he is cultivating some talent.
 



MN is an entire state of cynical sports fans.


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Defense defense defense defense.
With the way we coached dbacks and the way it seemed we were really getting the hang of playing this sometimes 3-4 and mixing up fronts, bringing different pressures. I was really looking forward to watching this defense with the personnel we had coming back.

The D Coordinator hire does nothing for me.
 


Gopher07 said:
Sensing a lot of cynicism in the last few days around the hire - so, cynics, what are you most cynical about with respect to the last few days? Why?

I'm not here to say you're right or you're wrong - and I get that the program's history would lead most to be skeptical about future changes - but I'm genuinely curious as to what you think and how you see your take helping, whether it's changing perceptions, changing the conversation, or leading to actual changes with the program and the University.

Go for it, this is a safe space from my end.
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Sincerely, Best idea for a thread ever.
 




I love the posts on the cynic thread where the non cynics try and convince the cynics.... on the cynic thread.
 

leadpipegopher said:
Defense defense defense defense.
With the way we coached dbacks and the way it seemed we were really getting the hang of playing this sometimes 3-4 and mixing up fronts, bringing different pressures. I was really looking forward to watching this defense with the personnel we had coming back.

The D Coordinator hire does nothing for me.
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Agreed...I'm surprised Fleck moved so fast for him, given Arkansas' mediocre-at-best performance the past couple. That said, he must have seen something in him to move so fast, it's not like he had to make a decision on day 1.

I'm far more encouraged by the trajectory of the program today than I was 2 weeks ago, let's say that much. And we are now noticed on a national level like we haven't been since at least Mason's best years. I don't think that can be a bad thing.
 

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