The case for and against Leach

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I dislike how we all get enamored with offenses. This guy should get a pass for a bunch of reasons and one that we should care about is his defense was too soft.
 

I was against this idea until the OP stated that it would be the complete opposite of WI and IA. I really like the idea of the U returning to dominance with our own style instead of trying to replicate our biggest rivals. If immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, than this would be a perfect FU.
 

monk10 said:
This guy should get a pass for a bunch of reasons and one that we should care about is his defense was too soft.
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A very real concern.

Perhaps he needed to delegate more of whatever defensive responsibilities he had at Tech to his Defensive coaches. Perhaps he just had some bad D-coordinators at Tech. Perhaps there is just not that much defensive talent out there, and Texas and Oklahoma and Nebraska took what there was. Or perhaps the offense he runs doesn't help the defense (time of possession, too many 3andouts).

I'm not familiar enough with Texas Tech under Leach to know what the real problem was. Anyone know?
 

stevedave23 said:
Here's my point: the key to the air raid offense from a talent standpoint is a good decision making qb and wide receivers with speed and quickness. A school like TT has better access to speed and quickness than a school like Minnesota does..

could we run the air raid at MN and be cometitive? I believe we could. But I also believe that over a 20 year period we would compete for more big ten titles and more rose bowls using the talent that we have easier access to.

guys, I just don't see us scheming our way to the top. Wacker brought in a lot of d-coordinators who were going to scheme us to victory.
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Have we ever hired a coach that is the best at running their scheme? Do you think Leach would come coach here knowing his Air Raid offense would not work and he is set up to fail? If so sick of people thinking we need to run the ball cuz it's cold and this be like Wisconsin crap. I'm really pissed about Maturi's love affair with Wisconsin. Hire a winner! Fire Joel!
 

ruralgopher said:
I was against this idea until the OP stated that it would be the complete opposite of WI and IA. I really like the idea of the U returning to dominance with our own style instead of trying to replicate our biggest rivals. If immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, than this would be a perfect FU.
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How many years would it take for the U to out-compete Wisconsin and Iowa by attempting to replicate both systems? I beginning to also agree that we may need to go our own way.
 


MrGopher said:
A very real concern.

Perhaps he needed to delegate more of whatever defensive responsibilities he had at Tech to his Defensive coaches. Perhaps he just had some bad D-coordinators at Tech. Perhaps there is just not that much defensive talent out there, and Texas and Oklahoma and Nebraska took what there was. Or perhaps the offense he runs doesn't help the defense (time of possession, too many 3andouts).

I'm not familiar enough with Texas Tech under Leach to know what the real problem was. Anyone know?
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Are u talking about why he was fired? That problem or defensive problems? All I know is that he won games and put Texas Tech on the football map in one of the best conferences.
 

MrGopher said:
A very real concern.

Perhaps he needed to delegate more of whatever defensive responsibilities he had at Tech to his Defensive coaches. Perhaps he just had some bad D-coordinators at Tech. Perhaps there is just not that much defensive talent out there, and Texas and Oklahoma and Nebraska took what there was. Or perhaps the offense he runs doesn't help the defense (time of possession, too many 3andouts).

I'm not familiar enough with Texas Tech under Leach to know what the real problem was. Anyone know?
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Unfortunately I have the Cosgrove scare in me. Someone who supposedly took time off took a look at his deficiencies and tried to improve on them. I don't have confidence that he would find a defensive coordinator that can create a dominating defense. Part of that is how the offense works.

Ways the defense gets back on the field or is on the field a long time.
* Quick Strike potential
* Lots of clock stopping: Incomplete passes (bad), more first downs per play (good).
* Turnovers
* 3 and outs

A defense has a hard time being statistically good with that set up. So a Leach defense can be good, but will it get worn down by a Wiscy and Iowa, b/c it is on the field so long.

As far as rumors go: A leach defense was supposed to be not very fundamentally sound. I think that is hard to quantify, but we know what that feels like this year.
 

goldengophers said:
How many years would it take for the U to out-compete Wisconsin and Iowa by attempting to replicate both systems? I beginning to also agree that we may need to go our own way.
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Wi and Iowa have a twenty year head start on us playing that style. We will always be behind. I don't think Maturi has the vision to get ahead of the curve. He'll always be bringing in Wi castoffs.
Imagine being a stud OL recruit trying to choose between Ia and Wi or us trying to be like them.
 

glovedgopher said:
Are u talking about why he was fired? That problem or defensive problems? All I know is that he won games and put Texas Tech on the football map in one of the best conferences.
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Not talking at all about why he was fired.

Just want to know why his defenses were never impressive in the points column. I just really don't know how hands-on he was when it came to defense at all. Was he the problem with the D, or was it his coordinators?

I also would love to go completely the other way from wisky and Iowa. One advantage this gives us is that there are talented guys in the 5 state area who would pass on wiskIowa just because we run a kickazz spread offense. There would not be as much recruiting competition for those particular athletes. I would love to not flatter wiskIowa by going all-out to imitate them.

And I don't think we are making a big enough deal about how good Leach is at supporting the academic success of his students. Usually crazy coaches, who are profane and abrasive, are not very good at graduating his boys. Leach is a serious exception.
 



I was really surprised to see he was number one in grad rates fir his conference. But when you read about him and how he is interested in so much more than football and pirates. It makes sense that he would value education.
Try not to hold having a law degree against him.
 

MrGopher said:
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I also would love to go completely the other way from wisky and Iowa. One advantage this gives us is that there are talented guys in the 5 state area who would pass on wiskIowa just because we run a kickazz spread offense. There would not be as much recruiting competition for those particular athletes. I would love to not flatter wiskIowa by going all-out to imitate them.

And I don't think we are making a big enough deal about how good Leach is at supporting the academic success of his students. Usually crazy coaches, who are profane and abrasive, are not very good at graduating his boys. Leach is a serious exception.
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This is why the academy coaches intrigue me. You get a different style of offense coupled with coaches that come from institutions that expect their students to be quality character types.

I don't know enough about how GT is doing to see if that translates when you leave a place that is built around supporting that mentality, or draws kids in that want that kind of environment.
 

MrGopher said:
And I don't think we are making a big enough deal about how good Leach is at supporting the academic success of his students. Usually crazy coaches, who are profane and abrasive, are not very good at graduating his boys. Leach is a serious exception.
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This seems to be falling by the wayside with a lot of people.
 





glovedgopher said:
Do you think Leach would come coach here knowing his Air Raid offense would not work and he is set up to fail?
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Every coach the gophers have had in the past 45 years believed their system would work and they would win. Most recently, Tim Brewster.

glovedgopher said:
If so sick of people thinking we need to run the ball cuz it's cold and this be like Wisconsin crap.
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My points have nothing to do with the weather. It's about the talent you have access to.

glovedgopher said:
I'm really pissed about Maturi's love affair with Wisconsin. Hire a winner! Fire Joel!
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Now we agree on these points!!
 

Mike Leach is the Bobby Knight of college football:
-Extremely Intelligent
-Graduates Players
-Successful past
-Socially Inappropriate at times

I have no doubt that Leach is intelligent enough to build an offense around the strengths of his players and I really like the fact that he is going to be hyper motivated.
 

MrGopher said:
Not talking at all about why he was fired.

Just want to know why his defenses were never impressive in the points column. I just really don't know how hands-on he was when it came to defense at all. Was he the problem with the D, or was it his coordinators?

I also would love to go completely the other way from wisky and Iowa. One advantage this gives us is that there are talented guys in the 5 state area who would pass on wiskIowa just because we run a kickazz spread offense. There would not be as much recruiting competition for those particular athletes. I would love to not flatter wiskIowa by going all-out to imitate them.

And I don't think we are making a big enough deal about how good Leach is at supporting the academic success of his students. Usually crazy coaches, who are profane and abrasive, are not very good at graduating his boys. Leach is a serious exception.
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Well, I know he fired one of his D coordinators mid season. Leach thought he was a problem, I'm guessing. Yes, his offense isn't going to keep the D off the field and shootouts are going to happen. Lets try to remember that his D was going against some of best offenses in the country during that time frame. He had to face QBs like Bradford, Young, McCoy, Brad Smith, Seneca Wallace and Josh Freeman. The offenses in the Big 12 had a lot of talent and could score almost at will. The Big Ten isn't know for explosive offenses and the teams haven't produced too many NFL QBs lately.
 

goldengophers said:
Mike Leach is the Bobby Knight of college football:
-Extremely Intelligent
-Graduates Players
-Successful past
-Socially Inappropriate at times

I have no doubt that Leach is intelligent enough to build an offense around the strengths of his players and I really like the fact that he is going to be hyper motivated.
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Anyone find it funny/odd/ironic that the same school that hired Knight after all those problems was the same one which fired Leach for the same sort of stuff?
 

stevedave23 said:
Every coach the gophers have had in the past 45 years believed their system would work and they would win. Most recently, Tim Brewster.



My points have nothing to do with the weather. It's about the talent you have access to.



Now we agree on these points!!
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Brewster didn't have a system.
 

glovedgopher said:
Brewster didn't have a system.
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True. His system was out recruiting other teams and it didn't work. My point still stands, all six past coaches have thought they could win here and didn't. Your point about Leach wouldn't come here if he didn't think he could win doesn't hold a lot of water for me.
 

MrGopher said:
Anyone find it funny/odd/ironic that the same school that hired Knight after all those problems was the same one which fired Leach for the same sort of stuff?
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It's been said that TT started looking for a reason to fire him the day after they signed him to a huge contract.
The issue with James just gave them an excuse.
 

to the people worried about defense:

1. Did you watch the AU/Arkansas game last week:eek:(or for that matter the NU/AU bowl game last year) Two very different types of offenses punching and counter-punching. I would love to see a knock down drag out between the Gopher and Badger offenses.

2. Leach will be hiring a coaching staff from the position of a Big Ten head coach, that would give him some cache to the big name DCs out there. Does any one know if he has any ties to Dick Bumpas at TCU?
 

stevedave23 said:
True. His system was out recruiting other teams and it didn't work. My point still stands, all six past coaches have thought they could win here and didn't. Your point about Leach wouldn't come here if he didn't think he could win doesn't hold a lot of water for me.
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Confidence in their system and abilities is a hallmark of all coaches. Sometimes the confidence is misplaced and unwarranted. Leach has a track record of taking programs that shouldn't win and competing with the big boys.
 

To me Leach's philosophy is too much like Mason's, which is put all of your best players on offense and hope the other team can't score as many points. It won't fly in the defense happy Big 10, unless every team has a down year on defense.

To be sure he has some positives, but the lack of a shut down defense and his apparent ability to rub his bosses the wrong way is enough to put him under a few other coaches I'd like to see. However, if he does get the Gopher job, I'll support him 100% and hope he can field a balanced team that can play well against anyone.
 

goldengophers said:
Mike Leach is the Bobby Knight of college football:
-Extremely Intelligent
-Graduates Players
-Successful past
-Socially Inappropriate at times

I have no doubt that Leach is intelligent enough to build an offense around the strengths of his players and I really like the fact that he is going to be hyper motivated.
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Putting it mildly, at least for Knight.
 

stevedave23 said:
True. His system was out recruiting other teams and it didn't work. My point still stands, all six past coaches have thought they could win here and didn't. Your point about Leach wouldn't come here if he didn't think he could win doesn't hold a lot of water for me.
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Okay, my history with Gopher head coaches only really goes back to Wacker so I have little knowledge about previous coaches. I view Leach as a free agent coach with a history of winning but with baggage. He knows he is going to get a chance to coach again and will be paid big money for it. It is up to him to pick a job where he can win and be successful. Kinda like LT this summer picking between the Jets and Vikes. Now, Wacker and Brewster both were minor league coaches just happy to be called up to the show. They might have been confident but neither one knew if their systems would really work. Mason was a solid coach and a proven winner. You knew what you were getting with him and you got it. It just wasn't enough to get you over the top. Kinda like every pitcher the Twins sign as a free agent. Of course I could be wrong and Leach just wants a fat paycheck and doesn't care if he fails but I think he has too much pride for that to be the case.
 

Well the best defense is a good offense, you know who said that? Mel, the cook on "Alice".
 

I keep hearing over and over about how Leach-led defenses would be worn out by Wisconsin and Iowa power running offenses, and its a fair points. But on the flip side, Leach's offenses coupled with a couple early stops, when the defense is still fresh, could result in a lead of a couple scores early in the game. Wouldn't this then force the power running teams of the Big Ten out of their comfort zones, and force them to pass?
 

joemagoo362 said:
I keep hearing over and over about how Leach-led defenses would be worn out by Wisconsin and Iowa power running offenses, and its a fair points. But on the flip side, Leach's offenses coupled with a couple early stops, when the defense is still fresh, could result in a lead of a couple scores early in the game. Wouldn't this then force the power running teams of the Big Ten out of their comfort zones, and force them to pass?
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Yes it could, just like in basketball when you have 2 contrasting styles. You get up by double digits and they can't come back. It goes both ways people. Wisconsin and Iowa are not exactly the hardest teams to prepare against. You just need the guys up front to stop them.
 

joemagoo362 said:
I keep hearing over and over about how Leach-led defenses would be worn out by Wisconsin and Iowa power running offenses, and its a fair points. But on the flip side, Leach's offenses coupled with a couple early stops, when the defense is still fresh, could result in a lead of a couple scores early in the game. Wouldn't this then force the power running teams of the Big Ten out of their comfort zones, and force them to pass?
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I think this would make sense if Iowa and Wiscy ran a wing T or a wishbone. However, they have shown the ability to throw the ball as well as run. The air raid has the chance of going 3 and out quickly, or throw some momentum turning pics. It is hard for the Air Raid to stop throwing and just run the ball. So the other team gets a lot of opportunities to put points back on the board.

I guess I'd rather have such a run stuffing defense that they can't even run when they want to, then try to put up enough points to try to make them stop running the ball.
 

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