The Big Ten is weak and other myths...

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Winasota Gopher said:
B1G has the potential to be extremely tough next year. Wisconsin loses Brust and that's it unless Special K leaves early capitalizing on his astronomical explosion over the past 2 weeks, but that's not the MO at Wisconsin they generally stay all 4 but he would be stupid not to at least go shack up with Barkley for a couple weeks.

Michigan State loses a Ton, but Izzo generally finds a way

OSU has taken a hit recently with some early departures, however, they have an extremely talented crew coming in

Illinois could be tough next year with some transfers becoming eligible

Iowa will likely take a small step back unless farmer fran can figure out how to coach defense

Michigan will get McGary back and possible Stouskas (sp?) depending on whether or not he leaves (I don't follow draft prospects for the NBA at all have no clue how he projects)
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The Big 10 will be tough- that's for sure.

Stauskis is considered to be around 20th pick if he chose to come out this year. Tough call.

Kaminsky has to be thinking about it.
 




Winasota Gopher said:
B1G has the potential to be extremely tough next year. Wisconsin loses Brust and that's it unless Special K leaves early capitalizing on his astronomical explosion over the past 2 weeks, but that's not the MO at Wisconsin they generally stay all 4 but he would be stupid not to at least go shack up with Barkley for a couple weeks.

Michigan State loses a Ton, but Izzo generally finds a way

OSU has taken a hit recently with some early departures, however, they have an extremely talented crew coming in

Illinois could be tough next year with some transfers becoming eligible

Iowa will likely take a small step back unless farmer fran can figure out how to coach defense

Michigan will get McGary back and possible Stouskas (sp?) depending on whether or not he leaves (I don't follow draft prospects for the NBA at all have no clue how he projects)
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Isn't Gassner a senior to for UW?
 




Winasota Gopher said:
Kentucky is laughing at you hysterically. So am I.
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What would be funny is if you were really naive enough to think we can get the 1 and done talent that kentucky gets every year.

Are you really that stupid?
 

Duke will return to the top 5. North Carolina is hard to figure, Louisville minus Russ and probably Harell will be down, Syracuse about even, and Pittsburgh is losing a bit. Bottom of the acc is still poor. We add Maryland and Rutgers so our bottom, for the time being will be weak also, both locations are high school talent hot beds so that could change.

Winasota Gopher said:
B1G has the potential to be extremely tough next year. Wisconsin loses Brust and that's it unless Special K leaves early.

Michigan State loses a Ton, but Izzo generally finds a way. Payne and Appling are gone with Harris almost sure to follow. Has Trice and Dawson and some role players. They will have issues.

OSU has taken a hit recently with some early departures, however, they have an extremely talented crew coming including Athony Lee 6-9 230 from temple (14p/9reb a game). ESPN #1SG Russell is a future star. Diop and Tate could play right away. Will Matta actually use his bench for once?

Illinois could be tough next year with some transfers becoming eligible.

If Vonleh returns Indiana could be improved. ESPN #5 sg Blackmon is quite the scorer.


Iowa will likely take a small step back unless farmer fran can figure out how to coach defense. Also Marble made a lot of plays at the end of games and I am not sure A. White can do the same. Doesnt have the ball handling skills.

Michigan will get McGary back and possible Stouskas (sp?) depending on whether or not he leaves (I don't follow draft prospects for the NBA at all have no clue how he projects)
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bottlebass said:
What would be funny is if you were really naive enough to think we can get the 1 and done talent that kentucky gets every year.

Are you really that stupid?
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Where did you specify it was "us" that needed to do those things to win. You made a general statement about experience being needed to win in march
You not Me said:
Experience is key when it comes to getting wins in March.
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Your words not mine.

Someone saying experience is needed to get wins in March, I think that's funny, it helps but it's not the answer.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Where did you specify it was "us" that needed to do those things to win. You made a general statement about experience being needed to win in march

Your words not mine.

Someone saying experience is needed to get wins in March, I think that's funny, it helps but it's not the answer.
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Experience or a bunch of 5 star freshmen is what it takes to win in March
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Where did you specify it was "us" that needed to do those things to win. You made a general statement about experience being needed to win in march

Your words not mine.

Someone saying experience is needed to get wins in March, I think that's funny, it helps but it's not the answer.
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You should really spend more time reading a thread before you call some one out then re-call them out... As for specifying "us" its a gopher thread and the most recent posts were about "us" recruiting the best MN players. gophersiniowa stated if you get the right players for your system you can have success and i agreed and also added get players to play all 4 years, which is part of RP's system right now since we aren't getting top 15 recruits that can go to the NBA after 1 year. As for you thinking its funny to say experience in march is needed look at florida. the reason why they were everyone's number 1 (and mine) is because they have been to the elite 8 four years in a row and start 4 seniors with the experience to win. Kentucky is an anomaly. I don't have time to look up the specific rosters but I guarantee upperclassmen dominate the starting rosters on the other 3 teams in the final 4 and any body who knows anything about the tournament knows a good tie break when choosing the 50/50 games is looking at experience of the starters.... or did I just give my secret to success away? How many people picked Harvard over cinci? I did and I doubt I was alone. Why did I pick them? They start seniors who were in the dance last year and won a game last year.

Experience does matter in March. I realize Kentucky is hot right now and may again prove that you can win the tournament without real deep experience, but there are maybe 3-5 programs that can get the recruits to have success this way and we are not one of them. Our road to success will be getting guys that perfectly fit RP's system and have them play all 4 years.
 






To the point that college basketball is cyclical ... this year is a down cycle for the best of the best teams in college basketball. I have not seen a weaker group at the top. The #1 seeds this year were the worst group of #1 seeds that I have ever seen, which is a big part of why all hell broke loose with the brackets. Some years there are some pretty strong teams at the top of college basketball, but this year isn't one of them. Florida is a solid #1 seed but even they don't have any clear future NBA players performing well for them so they aren't a standout team when compared to dominant #1 seeds of years past such as 2012 Kentucky, 2009 North Carolina, or 2007 Florida. 2013 Louisville was certainly better. Certainly a lot of #1 seeds have had a more talented star player in comparison to 2014 Florida. Arizona was an average #1 seed because they lost their edge on the field with the injury to Brandon Ashley, they lost 25% of the games where Ashley wasn't available for at least part of the game. Wichita State was an average #1 seed as well, even if they had beaten KY they had a 50-50 chance at beating Louisville and a 50-50 chance at beating Michigan so them not making it to the F4 was hardly a surprise. Virginia was a below average #1 seed, they lost several games and played a fairly pedestrian ACC schedule, had a regular season-ending loss against a team that didn't even make the NIT, and they had a loss by a margin of 35 points. The #2 seeds weren't all that strong this season, either, with the most talented one of the bunch (Kansas) losing 10 games on the season. I don't think there has ever been a #2 seed to finish a season with 10 losses prior to this season. Iowa State was the only #3 seed this year that looked like they deserved that seed in the tournament. The talent of other seeds once you get past the top 3 seed lines is good in comparison to other years, but my point is the top teams in college basketball this season aren't particularly good.
 

dpodoll68 said:
How so? "So far," all we have is worse results than the year before. Predicting the future has no bearing on the returns "so far".
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If you could prove Tubby would have done better than Rich Pit this year, you would have an argument. But of course you can't. Last year's results have no bearing on this year's. Dude's comment had to do with the trajectory of the program with Rich Pit v. Tubby.

Just because Tubby dragged his 9th place team into the tournament last year after yet another Feb/March collapse and scraped out a victory over a pretty crappy team, doesn't mean that where we are right now is going backward due to the coaching change. Dude above has the opinion that Rich Pit has done better than Tubby would have. He can't prove that either, but it's obviously just his opinion. And mine. And about 90% of the board.
 

GopherJake said:
If you could prove Tubby would have done better than Rich Pit this year, you would have an argument. But of course you can't. Last year's results have no bearing on this year's. Dude's comment had to do with the trajectory of the program with Rich Pit v. Tubby.

Just because Tubby dragged his 9th place team into the tournament last year after yet another Feb/March collapse and scraped out a victory over a pretty crappy team, doesn't mean that where we are right now is going backward due to the coaching change. Dude above has the opinion that Rich Pit has done better than Tubby would have. He can't prove that either, but it's obviously just his opinion. And mine. And about 90% of the board.
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This year's results were worse than last year's. Fact. You can lie and make up whatever stats you want, but you can't argue with that. And I know it really pisses you off that your Golden Boy couldn't even equal the results of a washed-up, going through the motions, "retiring" coach.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This year's results were worse than last year's. Fact. You can lie and make up whatever stats you want, but you can't argue with that. And I know it really pisses you off that your Golden Boy couldn't even equal the results of a washed-up, going through the motions, "retiring" coach.
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That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. If all the variables...roster makeup, schedule, injuries, etc, we're identical year to year then you would have the means for a valid comparison. But they weren't (and they never are) so you don't.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. If all the variables...roster makeup, schedule, injuries, etc, we're identical year to year then you would have the means for a valid comparison. But they weren't (and they never are) so you don't.
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Well, the variables you mention are rarely the same (or very similar) and people make comparisons anyway. I would say that even if one accepts the premise that last year's team was better than this year's team, the difference is a bit like the difference between a car that gets highway mileage per gallon of 28 vs. 27. The difference isn't much and neither is a champ in that metric.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. If all the variables...roster makeup, schedule, injuries, etc, we're identical year to year then you would have the means for a valid comparison. But they weren't (and they never are) so you don't.
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How is it ridiculous? Were last year's results better than this year's, yes or no? If you say no, you know you're lying and thus can't be taken seriously.
 

dpodoll68 said:
So you'd rather go to the NIT than go to the Tournament and advance?
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Is that what you think I think - or are you just being a jerk?

I truly believe that we have had a much, much better year with Pitino than Tubby would have had with the roster Tubby would have worked with this year.

Tubby would have had Foster and Ellis. Ellis is going to be a good player but would not have been significant this year because he didn't fill a roster need. Tubby would have likely gotten one of his fine spring recruits- I'll let the past record speak on that. We would not have had Matheui, maybe we would have gotten King (doubt it but maybe), Mo would have been 300#. Assuming everything else is equal- Andre Hollins gets injured and Mav spends a lot of time at the point from there on- I have our Tubby record at about 5-13 or 6-12. That might make the CBI.

So yeah- so far -so good.
 

dpodoll68 said:
How is it ridiculous? Were last year's results better than this year's, yes or no? If you say no, you know you're lying and thus can't be taken seriously.
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Somebody is not on their meds.... ^^^
 

bga1 said:
Is that what you think I think - or are you just being a jerk?

I truly believe that we have had a much, much better year with Pitino than Tubby would have had with the roster Tubby would have worked with this year.

Tubby would have had Foster and Ellis. Ellis is going to be a good player but would not have been significant this year because he didn't fill a roster need. Tubby would have likely gotten one of his fine spring recruits- I'll let the past record speak on that. We would not have had Matheui, maybe we would have gotten King (doubt it but maybe), Mo would have been 300#. Assuming everything else is equal- Andre Hollins gets injured and Mav spends a lot of time at the point from there on- I have our Tubby record at about 5-13 or 6-12. That might make the CBI.

So yeah- so far -so good.
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Ah - so I'm basing my premise on reality, and you're basing yours on fantasy. It's fine if you want to live in fantasyland, but don't get so defensive when called out on it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Ah - so I'm basing my premise on reality, and you're basing yours on fantasy. It's fine if you want to live in fantasyland, but don't get so defensive when called out on it.
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Right on. Fantasyland is where bga1 lives.
 

dpodoll68 said:
How is it ridiculous? Were last year's results better than this year's, yes or no? If you say no, you know you're lying and thus can't be taken seriously.
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Honest question. How do you think this season would have gone if Tubby was still in charge?
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Right on. Fantasyland is where bga1 lives.
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I tried to paint a realistic picture of what Tubby's team would have looked like. Maybe you can tell me why it's fantasy and what you view as reality.

I would say 80-90% of GHer's and nearly every season ticket holder I have talked with is ecstatic that we hired Pitino and off loaded the Tubster. That's reality. Reality is that Tubby never got above .500 in the BT with his BEST team at Minnesota and never above 6th place. This would have been his worst squad in terms of personnel since the first team he coached here at Minnesota (and did a great job with BTW).

Talk all you want about fantasy land with your anal retentive new pal, dpo, the reality is that Tubby had all the appearances of a tired coach who was riding a big pay day into retirement here. He did not achieve to expectations and things were on their way to getting worse. Pitino is no guarantee. This is a tough job in a tough conference. However, I am very optimistic that he has the energy and the coaching ability to get it done.

Tubby WAS a great coach in his day and remains a very, very good man. His best coaching days have passed as it does with all great coaches eventually.
 

mplarson7 said:
Honest question. How do you think this season would have gone if Tubby was still in charge?
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Don't know, don't care. I have more important things to spend my time on than pointless theoretical exercises. How do you think this season would have gone if Rick Pitino were coaching here? That's just as relevant.
 

bga1 said:
Maybe you can tell me why it's fantasy
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You can't understand how predicting a made-up season with a made-up coaching staff and made-up players playing against a made-up schedule is fantasy?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Don't know, don't care. I have more important things to spend my time on than pointless theoretical exercises. How do you think this season would have gone if Rick Pitino were coaching here? That's just as relevant.
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Important things like having a hissy fit every time Tubby is mentioned on here?

How would this season have gone? Not well. Doesn't take a lot of thought to come to that conclusion.
 

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