The Ben Johnson Hire vs. Comparable Hires

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Not sure why you would include Shrewsberry at Penn State and not Smart (7-1) at Marquette a much more natural comparsion given proximity and program. Marquette/Woj was in the same number of NCAA tournaments with 1 fewer victory than Pitino during his 7 years. Penn State is one of the worst jobs in the conference and has been to 4 NCAA tournaments in the last 56 years.
 

EG#9 said:
Not sure why you would include Shrewsberry at Penn State and not Smart (7-1) at Marquette a much more natural comparsion given proximity and program. Marquette/Woj was in the same number of NCAA tournaments with 1 fewer victory than Pitino during his 7 years. Penn State is one of the worst jobs in the conference and has been to 4 NCAA tournaments in the last 56 years.
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Because Penn State is in the same conference and also, like the Gophers, is a bottom 5 program in the Big Ten. …. Gophers, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, and Rutgers, the 5 programs that traditionally are battling to avoid Weakling Wednesday at the Big Ten Tournament. Being that it also has a first-year, first-time ever DI head coach, seems like a natural comparison?

Also, Marquette is a private school.
 
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SelectionSunday said:
Because Penn State is in the same conference and also, like the Gophers, is a bottom 5 program in the Big Ten. …. Gophers, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State, and Rutgers, the 5 programs that traditionally are battling to avoid Weakling Wednesday at the Big Ten Tournament. Being that it also has a first-year, first-time ever DI head coach, seems like a natural comparison?

Also, Marquette is a private school.
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Personally, I like Marquette as a comp, and they are the key team I keep an eye on as a reference. Regionally relevant, similar recent success in NCAA, coming off a long failed coaching hire over the same window of time. Both rosters were complete turnovers. Both fan bases expect teams to beat the little guys handily and aspire to consistently be in top 25. Biggest difference to me is that Marquette doesn’t have a Big Ten football team to help garner interest - they are a basketball only school.

Smart and BJ’s overall body of works obviously are not comparable at this point… but that’s what makes the comp interesting. What could MN have done if we hired a coach that can recruit using his past successes.

another interesting comp is how Marquette chose to fill their roster out. They have ten freshman to our 3 (counting Purcell). BJ will be almost in complete rebuild all over again next offseason, while Smart builds on a young roster.

I will be watching their trajectory for several years and be judging Coyle accordingly.
 


bc2211 said:
Personally, I like Marquette as a comp, and they are the key team I keep an eye on as a reference. Regionally relevant, similar recent success in NCAA, coming off a long failed coaching hire over the same window of time. Both rosters were complete turnovers. Both fan bases expect teams to beat the little guys handily and aspire to consistently be in top 25. Biggest difference to me is that Marquette doesn’t have a Big Ten football team to help garner interest - they are a basketball only school.

Smart and BJ’s overall body of works obviously are not comparable at this point… but that’s what makes the comp interesting. What could MN have done if we hired a coach that can recruit using his past successes.

another interesting comp is how Marquette chose to fill their roster out. They have ten freshman to our 3 (counting Purcell). BJ will be almost in complete rebuild all over again next offseason, while Smart builds on a young roster.

I will be watching their trajectory for several years and be judging Coyle accordingly.
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I see some of your points but Shaka was/is a well-known, big-name, highly sought after hire with a long history of success as a head coach. At that point, we might as well just compare Johnson against literally anyone and everyone. It's like wondering what MN could have done had they gotten Coach K to come!

Shaka spurned the Gophers in the past so was certainly not going to come this time around. (Of note... we tried the Coach K-style hire in the past with Tubby Smith and that didn't lead to the sustained success that rallied the fan base either.) Hubert Davis is another first year head coach... at UNC... do we compare Johnson to him too?

In a few years, we will forget about this new coach title and can just compare the coaches on results regardless of tenure with the team. We all know that finding direct apples to apples comparisons are always difficult... there are just too many parameters that differ. There is no control subject in this experiment.
 

ecoperson said:
I see some of your points but Shaka was/is a well-known, big-name, highly sought after hire with a long history of success as a head coach. At that point, we might as well just compare Johnson against literally anyone and everyone. It's like wondering what MN could have done had they gotten Coach K to come!

Shaka spurned the Gophers in the past so was certainly not going to come this time around. (Of note... we tried the Coach K-style hire in the past with Tubby Smith and that didn't lead to the sustained success that rallied the fan base either.) Hubert Davis is another first year head coach... at UNC... do we compare Johnson to him too?

In a few years, we will forget about this new coach title and can just compare the coaches on results regardless of tenure with the team. We all know that finding direct apples to apples comparisons are always difficult... there are just too many parameters that differ. There is no control subject in this experiment.
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I blame Trixie from the Vu.
 

ecoperson said:
I see some of your points but Shaka was/is a well-known, big-name, highly sought after hire with a long history of success as a head coach. At that point, we might as well just compare Johnson against literally anyone and everyone. It's like wondering what MN could have done had they gotten Coach K to come!

Shaka spurned the Gophers in the past so was certainly not going to come this time around. (Of note... we tried the Coach K-style hire in the past with Tubby Smith and that didn't lead to the sustained success that rallied the fan base either.) Hubert Davis is another first year head coach... at UNC... do we compare Johnson to him too?

In a few years, we will forget about this new coach title and can just compare the coaches on results regardless of tenure with the team. We all know that finding direct apples to apples comparisons are always difficult... there are just too many parameters that differ. There is no control subject in this experiment.
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I’ve got friends who follow the Marquette program very closely, along with the gophers at arms length, who were shocked at the separation between the hired resumes. We’re we going to get Shaka, specifically? No for various reasons… but Marquette made a big splash where MN opted to pay lowest possible entry level for the big ten. The money itself doesn’t matter, but the strategy does. There were
other successful coaches we could have pursued. Marquette and Minnesota were teetering on the same ledge coming into this season. Marquette is not UNC. Or Texas. Minnesota is a Big Ten school, but we took a drastically different approach than Marquette. For that reason, I find the comparison interesting. No big deal if others don’t. I’m not suggesting SS alter his list.
 

Perception is going to change when the losses start piling up, I'm hoping they are at least competitive and play hard heading into the Big Ten season.
 



Through December 1. Will update again after Sunday's game at Mississippi State.

 

bc2211 said:
I’ve got friends who follow the Marquette program very closely, along with the gophers at arms length, who were shocked at the separation between the hired resumes. We’re we going to get Shaka, specifically? No for various reasons… but Marquette made a big splash where MN opted to pay lowest possible entry level for the big ten. The money itself doesn’t matter, but the strategy does. There were
other successful coaches we could have pursued. Marquette and Minnesota were teetering on the same ledge coming into this season. Marquette is not UNC. Or Texas. Minnesota is a Big Ten school, but we took a drastically different approach than Marquette. For that reason, I find the comparison interesting. No big deal if others don’t. I’m not suggesting SS alter his list.
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This doesn't get a lot air time around this hire but I think Coyle was not going to break the bank so shortly after nixing a number of non-revenue sports. Even if it was playing with other people's money... it just would not have been a good look.

Flash forward 7 or 8 months and Fleck gets a nice extension... had Coyle had time to let the dust settle a bit, he just might have sought bigger trophies on the BB side.
 





The only one comparable, by far, is Shrewsberry.


The rest were already head coaches. Ben was never a head coach before. And technically so was Shrew, although at an NAIA schools back in the mid 2000's.
 

I'm jealous of Iowa State basketball right now.
 


SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Dont be.
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I see a lot of similarities between us and ISU right now. The main difference is that Otz has head coaching experience and was able to get a higher level of talent in his first year. We should look at the Cyclones as a target for the Gophers’ near future.

I have some ISU connections so they’re probably my second favorite team. It’s funny how many parallels our football teams have had with Fleck and Campbell, and now basketball is looking like that as well.
 

bc2211 said:
Personally, I like Marquette as a comp, and they are the key team I keep an eye on as a reference. Regionally relevant, similar recent success in NCAA, coming off a long failed coaching hire over the same window of time. Both rosters were complete turnovers. Both fan bases expect teams to beat the little guys handily and aspire to consistently be in top 25. Biggest difference to me is that Marquette doesn’t have a Big Ten football team to help garner interest - they are a basketball only school.

Smart and BJ’s overall body of works obviously are not comparable at this point… but that’s what makes the comp interesting. What could MN have done if we hired a coach that can recruit using his past successes.

another interesting comp is how Marquette chose to fill their roster out. They have ten freshman to our 3 (counting Purcell). BJ will be almost in complete rebuild all over again next offseason, while Smart builds on a young roster.

I will be watching their trajectory for several years and be judging Coyle accordingly.
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Over the next decade or so I am excited to read your comparisons and to watch you praise Coyle or hold his feet to the fire. Thank you for your service.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Over the next decade or so I am excited to read your comparisons and to watch you praise Coyle or hold his feet to the fire. Thank you for your service.
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Just doing my gopherhole duty.
 


fair said:
I see a lot of similarities between us and ISU right now. The main difference is that Otz has head coaching experience and was able to get a higher level of talent in his first year. We should look at the Cyclones as a target for the Gophers’ near future.

I have some ISU connections so they’re probably my second favorite team. It’s funny how many parallels our football teams have had with Fleck and Campbell, and now basketball is looking like that as well.
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I wish they were in the Big Ten.

Obviously hindsight is 20-20, but Nebraska was a horseshit add. Other than women's volleyball.

We added them solely because they were supposed to win national titles for us in football. So pathetic.
 



topos said:
Should Rashon Burno, who beat out Ben Johnson at Northern Illinois, be included as a comp?
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Did he have no head coaching experience, prior to being hired at NIU?
 

Just a suggestion, maybe add rankings if the team is currently ranked at the time.
 






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