Testing the sound system today

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I first saw the mound of sound when I was in college..

RailBaronYarr said:
Actually the Mound of Sound is not a MN original. Michigan has been doing it longer than us, they call it the "Cake" formation. Correct me if I'm wrong but former director Jerry Luckhardt started this during his tenure from 1997?-2004 seasons. I know we used it in 2003, and probably before that. But Michigan uses it every year (typically to a Blues Bros. show) and has for a while.

I agree on the big screen - too many shots of individual people (typically the same flute or clarinet girl over and over). Show the whole field from th press box or overhead cams!
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that was in the late 1980's or early 90's. When Michigan did the cake formation, people were bitching how they stole it from one of the A.D. under Dr. Ben. But who knows. I was just going by what a band memeber from back then told me. Over head shots or longer angles would have made it far easier to see what's going on, totally. I still enjoy the performances.
 

Dr. Art Bartner brought the cake formation to USC from Michigan in the early 80's, prior to the 84 Olympics. They performed it with "Stars & Stripes".

and, while i enjoy the rouser and the gopher band, the Trojan Marching Band blows doors on it. best percussion section in college marching bands today. i'm as sick of wayward son, heartbreaker, and in the stone as the next SC fan, but top to bottom they are the best. the band is HATED by opponents for their arrogance, volume, monotony, etc. to me, that's the sign of really good band ;)
 

Poster umnhcky is probably the best source on this board for the reasons the band does or does not do certain things. From what I have observed, our shows are limited by the following constraints:

-Time: sometimes we have 1 week in between games to get a whole new show ready, which can only get so complex in music and drill without it looking/sounding terrible

-Licensing: last year we were supposed to do a Led Zeppelin show, but we couldn't get the licensing in place, so we did Paul Simon instead. This has probably happened a number of times before

-Money: as some of the others have mentioned, marching music can get really really expensive. This kind of goes along with licensing, but one reason shows are repeated is to conserve money. And with the economy being what it is, this isn't likely to change.

There are other factors as well, but I believe those are the biggies. Again, this is what I have observed. Parts may be incorrect, but there it is.
 

Hey, I know a great money saving halftime show: "A Tribute to Public Domain Songs".
 

I'm really looking forward to how the band sounds and looks in the new stadium. I agree with what's been said here already....Pregame is great, half-time needs some work, band needs a lot more money in order to be what we want them to be...but oveall I'm proud of our band and glad they are such a vital part of Gopher football.

Thanks to all the students over the years that put in that kind of commitment and time for the sake of us fans and the college football experience. I truly hope the new band facilities will reward the current members and staff, help recruit and support future band members, and encourage the U to provide the band with the funds and support they deserve.
 


Actual the volume is artificial...

MNWolfman said:
Dr. Art Bartner brought the cake formation to USC from Michigan in the early 80's, prior to the 84 Olympics. They performed it with "Stars & Stripes".

and, while i enjoy the rouser and the gopher band, the Trojan Marching Band blows doors on it. best percussion section in college marching bands today. i'm as sick of wayward son, heartbreaker, and in the stone as the next SC fan, but top to bottom they are the best. the band is HATED by opponents for their arrogance, volume, monotony, etc. to me, that's the sign of really good band ;)
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USC was the first school to field mic it's band. Most of the sound comes from the speakers. Repetition is the keynote of simple minds. I've been told by Stanford band people, USC plays the same two songs over and over because it's the only two they know. I have seen them and was underwhelmed.
 

I am far from a band expert but the best band that I have ever seen IMO was the Texas A&M band.
 

I've been told by Stanford band people, USC plays the same two songs over and over because it's the only two they know
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Kind of like trying to get an objective appraisal of the Gopher Band from a bucky band member.

I want our band to give us a reason to stay in our seats and watch them at half time or after the game. Maybe they could even get the crowd involved like the bucky band does when they play that Budweiser song...anything. I think there is one song our band does where the students spin around and sing an old Niel Diamond song (Sweet Caroline...there's a really NOW tune). It's just all so old and worn out (I am not refering to the marches and school songs).
 

Kind of like trying to get an objective appraisal of the Gopher Band from a bucky band member.

Actually, I'm a Gopher fan that has no feelings towards Stanford or USC and can confirm, based on seeing them at the Notre Dame game in 2007 in South Bend, the Trojan band does, in fact, play the same song over and over and over. Everyone knows the tune...I just call it "the USC song" and man was I tired of that song by the end of they day.

That said, the USC band is still impressive.
 



band critique from a stanford fan? LOL...that's rich.

the reason people HATE that song is because they play it every time the SC D holds the offense to a gain of 2 yards or less. It's called Conquest. It's repetetive...it's gives the team strength, and it drains from opposing teams and fans...if you you've heard it 30 times in an afternoon, it likely means you're getting your asses kicked.

I think the SC band plays the best national anthem i've EVER heard by a college band. as i posted earlier, most of Dr. Bartner's tunes are getting dated (70's rock pantheon), but they have started infusing new stuff. they had the System of a Down drummer lead the band on his kit during the fresno state game a few years back...that was pretty sweet.

i enjoy college bands period. Cal is great, tOSU is great, Michigan is really overrated, ND is HUGE. Yes, I even enjoy Stanford band. check that, i don't like 'em all...I never want to hear Boomer Sooner ever again.

it's what makes college football awesome...and the Gopher band will sound wonderful outdoors. the dome was audio black hole.

having said all that though, I wouldn't trade SC's band for any other. they BUG the crap out of people. I know they place mic's in the stands, more now since they moved to the endzone, but I don't know about the field mic thing. i've seen them play hundreds of times in many different environments. My dad travelled with them to Rome last year. They are PLENTY loud all by themselves.

attached photo of my son w/ the band in Lincoln two years ago...
 

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Try to get the crowd in to it? You mean like playing Sweet Caroline, Livin' on a Prayer, Hey Baby, and a bunch of other tunes? How about our 5 school songs (as opposed to On Wisc and If You Want to be a Badger + Bud and Varsity?...). I think the band sure does play enough different music, its the fans that don't get in to it enough while in the seats. Wisconsin's band doesn't play between plays nearly as often as the MN band does.
 

MNWolfman said:
the reason people HATE that song is because they play it every time the SC D holds the offense to a gain of 2 yards or less. It's called Conquest. It's repetetive...it's gives the team strength, and it drains from opposing teams and fans...if you you've heard it 30 times in an afternoon, it likely means you're getting your asses kicked.
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Actually, I checked YouTube and "Fight on" is the "USC song" we heard 1,483 times during one game from the USC band. Heard that way more than Conquest. Either way, you're right, USC was kicking ND's collective *ss and that did add to the "annoyance" of the ND fans about "only knowing two songs". As an impartial visitor rooting for USC I still found it kind of annoying. But...again...the Trojan band is very good. On YouTube you can tell part of what I like most about them is that they have lots of brass...something we need much more of.
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You mean like playing Sweet Caroline (70's), Livin' on a Prayer (80's), Hey Baby (60's), and a bunch of other tunes
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Well the band seems to have the 60's, 70's and 80's covered with those three songs. The "bunch of others" would no doubt include Chicago, Blood Sweet and Tears and Earth Wind and Fire. Those are some really "now" groups. I'd say you proved my point very well.

I think the band sure does play enough different music, its the fans that don't get in to it enough while in the seats.
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No one is arguing they don't play different music. It's just that the music they play is really outdated and boring. Who gets into Bon Jovi and Niel Diamond these days? Why not throw in a little Andy Williams "Moon River" while they are at it. I guess all it really does is help concessions.

Again I am not referring to the marches or school songs.
 



sec105 said:
Well the band seems to have the 60's, 70's and 80's covered with those three songs. The "bunch of others" would no doubt include Chicago, Blood Sweet and Tears and Earth Wind and Fire. Those are some really "now" groups. I'd say you proved my point very well.



No one is arguing they don't play different music. It's just that the music they play is really outdated and boring. Who gets into Bon Jovi and Niel Diamond these days? Why not throw in a little Andy Williams "Moon River" while they are at it. I guess all it really does is help concessions.

Again I am not referring to the marches or school songs.
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Ever been to a college or any bar recently? People, and particularly college students, LOVE Bon Jovi and Neil Diamond. They sing it at every single karaoke known to man - typically with the most interaction. Same with Queen (Bohemian Rhapsody - played by the band recently) They (students) sing along with the band at the games (quite loudly). If you're looking for the "other" ones I was referring to, try Offspring (Come out and Play and Pretty Fly), Green Day (Holiday), Zombie Nation (band sectional, played over speakers at basketball), then tons of other songs that appeal to college aged and recent grads (TMNT theme, Mario, movie tunes). These are just SOME examples. They also did an entire show of Guitar Hero music in 2007. Monkey Wrench by Foo Fighters was in that. They also did Dave Matthews Band in 07 - pretty recent music.

Earth_Wind_Fire - get rid of it. Way overplayed by marching bands and just plain not fun to listen to, especially since a LOT of people don't really recognize them. Chicago is catchy but also overplayed. Unfortunately those bands you mentioned transition easily from original score to marching bands since they HAVE THE SAME INSTRUMENTS.

What exactly makes you think that playing "updated" music will necessarily be better. Will an entire show of RHCP, Offspring, (random rap artist), or any other band of the last 15 years really resonate with 70% of the crowd that is most likely over 40. If you mean "updated" in the sense that they do more shows with really catchy and recognizable music (unlike some songs they have done) then I may agree with you. I think the marching band should play a few more songs from the hockey band portfolio - they already have the rights and som are pretty catchy.

Sounds like you should write an email to Tim Diem with some suggestions as to what you think is hip and cool and would translate well on the field.
 

swmngo4,

it's actually Tribute to Troy. Fight On (for ol' SC) is played after TDs are scored. It's a little more upbeat. Tribute to Troy is the slow methodical gothic tune, which cal fans love so much "this is the only song we know, it's boring and it's slow".

Conquest is played before and after each game. Replete with "woo woo's" and victory sign.

the full sc band travels to south bend. this past year was the first time the entire irish band has traveled to LA. USC received a multi-million dollar pledge about 20 years ago that ensures at least a portion of the SC band will be at every game. I would imagine they will bring out 60 for the Gopher game.
 




Well all I know is that ~75% of the people in the student section sing along quite enthusiastically to both the tunes the band plays. And that was just my experience on karaoke, but the first link for Top 10 Karaoke Songs on google showed this AskMen article:

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-karaoke-songs-for-guys_6.html

Sweet Caroline is at #7, Livin' on a Prayer is at #6. I'm kinda surprised no one else has backed me up on this.

This one http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2006/12/22/weekend-rock-list-best-karaoke-songs also confirms Bon Jovi on there. I would also say one of the most popular karaoke tunes of the last 10 years is Don't Stop Believin' by Journey... oh yeah the band plays that song at games too. I would argue that songs people like to sing along with (individually or in huge groups) are the best ones for a marching band to play.

There are plenty of "outdated" tunes that get young and old people alike excited. That's why theres a huge variety of catchy tunes in games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band (Bon Jovi is in Rock Band, btw).
 

Actually I was used the Standford band friend's...

MNWolfman said:
band critique from a stanford fan? LOL...that's rich.

the reason people HATE that song is because they play it every time the SC D holds the offense to a gain of 2 yards or less. It's called Conquest. It's repetetive...it's gives the team strength, and it drains from opposing teams and fans...if you you've heard it 30 times in an afternoon, it likely means you're getting your asses kicked.

I think the SC band plays the best national anthem i've EVER heard by a college band. as i posted earlier, most of Dr. Bartner's tunes are getting dated (70's rock pantheon), but they have started infusing new stuff. they had the System of a Down drummer lead the band on his kit during the fresno state game a few years back...that was pretty sweet.

i enjoy college bands period. Cal is great, tOSU is great, Michigan is really overrated, ND is HUGE. Yes, I even enjoy Stanford band. check that, i don't like 'em all...I never want to hear Boomer Sooner ever again.

it's what makes college football awesome...and the Gopher band will sound wonderful outdoors. the dome was audio black hole.

having said all that though, I wouldn't trade SC's band for any other. they BUG the crap out of people. I know they place mic's in the stands, more now since they moved to the endzone, but I don't know about the field mic thing. i've seen them play hundreds of times in many different environments. My dad travelled with them to Rome last year. They are PLENTY loud all by themselves.

attached photo of my son w/ the band in Lincoln two years ago...
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Quote because Stanford and USC's bands have one thing in common, Way over inflated views of themselves. As for less than two yards? you're dreaming. They have been known to play it regardsless of what's going on on the field. I have seen USC's band as I said and am not and will not be impressed. They are no louder by themselves than anyone else. It's not like a total USC's band junkie's views are unbiased. The topic was how to improve the halftime shows and song selections. I don't want our band to change very much. I agree that being outside will add totally to the experience.
 

If you are wondering why some of our half time shows last year seemed somewhat lack luster, one reason is that, music wise, our band directors were unable to secure the rights to play songs in time. For example, I believe we originally had a Led Zeplin show scheduled but could not perform it because we didn't get the rights. So it was replaced with the Paul Simon show.

Turns out we are one of the only bands in the nation that actually applies for the legal rights to play music composed by someone else.

I'm not sure what the music is for this year, but I have heard it is supposed to a vast improvement to last year. Makes sense since it will be our first year in the new stadium.

And drill wise, only so much can be taught to 300 kids in 1 week. More staff would help but the marching band doesn't have enough money to afford any more staff members than it already has
 

Last year music was only half the problem for a few of the halftimes. I remember a lot of park and play (stooping and playing in place or low-step marching in place for a while for those who don't know band lingo). I was fairly impressed with the first 3-4 shows and thought the second half of the season really tailed off in energy and fun during the show. Just my opinion I guess. Maybe having new music (for the Simon show vs LZ) made it hard to quick write up a cool drill. I don't know.
 

re3886 said:
Quote because Stanford and USC's bands have one thing in common, Way over inflated views of themselves. As for less than two yards? you're dreaming. They have been known to play it regardsless of what's going on on the field. I have seen USC's band as I said and am not and will not be impressed. They are no louder by themselves than anyone else. It's not like a total USC's band junkie's views are unbiased. The topic was how to improve the halftime shows and song selections. I don't want our band to change very much. I agree that being outside will add totally to the experience.
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Over inflated views of themselves? absolutely. they don't call themselves the best band in the universe for nothing. the two yards thing, yes, it's true. at least that's what the playcard calls for...not saying it won't ppp up other times. they've got a whole cue card that goes a little like this:

First Down: Fight on
Touchdown: Fight on
Defensive Stop >2 yards: Tribute
Sack of QB: Another One Bites the Dust
Turnover: Feelin' Alright
Start of 4th Q: William Tell
End of Game: Conquest

So, they do pay pretty close attention to the action on the field, and they are the only college band to have representation at EVERY game.

You are not and will not be impressed? WTF does that mean? You are incapable of being moved by future events? OK dude, good luck w/ all that. are there any college bands that DO impress you? are you correcting me for getting off topic? whatever dude, just having an off-season conversation.

while I may be biased as a 30+ year fan of SC football, i've seen many college marching bands and I am a musician. The TMB is significantly louder than most, especially those featuring large woodwind arrangements, xylaphones, etc (think UCLA, Michigan). While those bands may achieve better studio sound quality, they don't bring it on gameday quite the same.
 

MNWolfman said:
swmngo4,

it's actually Tribute to Troy. Fight On (for ol' SC) is played after TDs are scored. It's a little more upbeat. Tribute to Troy is the slow methodical gothic tune, which cal fans love so much "this is the only song we know, it's boring and it's slow".

Conquest is played before and after each game. Replete with "woo woo's" and victory sign.

the full sc band travels to south bend. this past year was the first time the entire irish band has traveled to LA. USC received a multi-million dollar pledge about 20 years ago that ensures at least a portion of the SC band will be at every game. I would imagine they will bring out 60 for the Gopher game.
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Thanks for the info. Yes, it would have been the slower Tribute to Troy that was so often heard.

Like I said, I really do like the USC band and am very, very impressed how they are able to travel so well. It was amazing to have them bring their whole band to South Bend. We were just sad the horse didn't come!

Of course the Notre Dame band is amazing too. It was a great day for a college marching band fan, even if the game was a blowout!

It will be something to hear "Tribute to Troy" at TCF Stadium. Let's just hope we don't hear it too much.
 

Can't believe all this hate on Living on a Prayer and especially Sweet Caroline! Seriously, if you've been to bars or wedding dances in the last decade you know that Sweet Caroline is HUGE with younger crowds. "so good...so good...so good!" "bahp, bahp, bah...". Haha.

Really, just because a song is more than 5 years old doesn't mean the younger crowd doesn't know it or love it. I agree with the above poster that the vast majority of the student section gets into these songs, as well as a few of the other "classics" that are still hugely popular with the younger crowd.
 

college marching bands is one of the many reasons i LOVE the college game so much better than the pro game...the atmosphere is not to be matched. ever been to the Shoe in Columbus when the band does Script Ohio? Let me tell you, you can feel the goose bumps up and down your spine. I do think our band definitely needs more brass...i think in a band of 300 plus, they only have about 35 t-bones...in my day, 1967 - 1971, we had about 60 trombones in a band of 225. Listen to some of the old recordings from that era and you can really hear the difference in the low to middle brass sections. Now it seems like they have a bout a hundred flutes. *ugh* not my style for a Big 10 marching band. They also need to make a road trip during the season. Get with it, band!
 

Didn't the bands used to make a lot more road trips? It doesn't seem as though the Iowa or Sconnie bands travel here anymore either. That used to be part of the fun for the big rivalry games.
 

amen brother...more brass!

i really do dig on the percussion section's pre-kickoff cadence though...very cool.
 

Road trips cost money. A lot. I think I went over this a long time ago, but the base numbers for a trip that leaves Friday afternoon, stays in a hotel, then leaves right after the game and comes home:

330 members and staff. Put 4 in a hotel room that is $55/night (after taxes, pretty liberal). $40 cash per diem for food since there will be multiple stops and no covered meals (seems reasonable compared to my bowl trip per diems). Buying ticket at face value for all staff/members: $45/person. Rental for 7 buses and gas (guessing here) $500/bus + gas at 8 mpg to Wisconsin = $5000. Not including any extra factors like a uniform cleaning that will most likely be done at the band's expense, that brings a one night trip total to $37k, and I think I am being fairly conservative. Longer trips will be more expensive.

I'm not sure what the band's total budget for a year is and how feasible $37,000 is to scrounge up. Maybe the budget would allow it and the band directors just don't feel like going. Maybe it is super tight and they put more importance on getting new instruments and replacement uniforms to keep the band looking/sounding nice. Who knows?
 

RailBaronYarr said:
Road trips cost money. A lot. I think I went over this a long time ago, but the base numbers for a trip that leaves Friday afternoon, stays in a hotel, then leaves right after the game and comes home:

330 members and staff. Put 4 in a hotel room that is $55/night (after taxes, pretty liberal). $40 cash per diem for food since there will be multiple stops and no covered meals (seems reasonable compared to my bowl trip per diems). Buying ticket at face value for all staff/members: $45/person. Rental for 7 buses and gas (guessing here) $500/bus + gas at 8 mpg to Wisconsin = $5000. Not including any extra factors like a uniform cleaning that will most likely be done at the band's expense, that brings a one night trip total to $37k, and I think I am being fairly conservative. Longer trips will be more expensive.

I'm not sure what the band's total budget for a year is and how feasible $37,000 is to scrounge up. Maybe the budget would allow it and the band directors just don't feel like going. Maybe it is super tight and they put more importance on getting new instruments and replacement uniforms to keep the band looking/sounding nice. Who knows?
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I understand the "cost factor" but why oh why, do we have to be the ONLY band in the Big 10 NOT to take a road trip. Other schools can figure out a way to do it, why can't we? are we the little sisters of the poor? I know that other schools are more centrally located, but geez, go to Northwestern every other year or something! We used to go to Iowa every other year and it was a blast.
 

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