Ten Gophers football players indefinately suspended

[Taji34]

I don't know who to believe in this, but Lee Hutton tweeted 10 minutes ago.

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Hmmm, seems there is conflicting info now, which is just what we needed! /s

Anyway, what was the point in tweeting his availability to meet with U of M Administrators, wouldn't that be something he should be sending an email or phone call to get sorted?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Hmmm, seems there is conflicting info now, which is just what we needed! /s

Anyway, what was the point in tweeting his availability to meet with U of M Administrators, wouldn't that be something he should be sending an email or phone call to get sorted?

PR and I think the dude just likes to tweet. Previously he sent some stupid tweet and called out Coyle or something for not doing anything. Like the AD should just reach on over to the other offices and mess with things so that the NCAA can later come in and wipe out everything...

 

[Spoofin]

Did you not see the letter shared earlier? Claeys and Could were both part of the decision....

LOL. You think TC was given a choice to go along with this just because the letter said so? You must be kidding. He would not have had a choice, and I would argue he likely shouldn't have a say. Big time conflict of interest. This is clearly a "do what your boss says and show a united front" situation.


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[GopherinFlorida]

Here is how the meeting between Kaler, Coyle and TC went:

Kaler: Guys, we have a serious problem...the EOAA has sent us their findings and they are recommending expulsion, suspension and probation for 10 players involved in the incident in September. I am going to follow those recommendations to the letter and let the appeals process take place. We must maintain our accountability and credibility in these situations and represent the U of M and be stewards of this University. Do you agree?

Coyle: Yes
TC: Yes

Kaler: Good it is done. Now the U of M PR Department will handle all press related issues going forward. Thank you.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I do find it extremely unlikely that this EOAA office found anything additional or new that was not uncovered by police and county attorney's office investigators, which makes the action pretty puzzling. As for the added four, sure looks like guilt by association or proximity, which will be answered with a pretty compelling lawsuit against the U.

 

[GophersInIowa]

LOL. You think TC was given a choice to go along with this just because the letter said so? You must be kidding. He would not have had a choice, and I would argue he likely shouldn't have a say. Big time conflict of interest. This is clearly a "do what your boss says and show a united front" situation.


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Yeah I don't think Claeys had much of a choice in this.

 

[Ewert86PC]

I think you missed the main update: What was actually claimed in much greater detail than before, plus the first confirmed existence of a video, which the Police reviewed and made notes that lended themselves to a finding that the altercation was consensual

This is where the EOAA loses credibility. They come to, not just a different conclusion than law enforcement, a rather diametrically opposite conclusion. This feels like a retaliatory action since Hennepin County didn't press charges.

The perceived retaliatory nature of this action is emphasized by the EOAA adding four or six players to their action.

I am all for protecting students from harm from other University persons, however the rabid dog nature of these actions makes the administration look petty and vindictive. If the situation, genders, et al, were reversed, would it seem like justice or revenge to them?

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[Unregistered User]

And NOT on the fact that Buford's dismissal letter says he was expelled...

This cabal can't dismiss anyone. The letter read that they are recommending expulsion.

That is also the reason that they do not need any emergency hearings to make sure they can make their finals. They are currently students at "The U" but are suspended from the football team.

 

[PMWinSTP]

This is actually a real problem.

It has much larger ramifications than anything Gopher football related. The Universities are in impossible situations. Look at this particular situation, the players were suspended from the football team. The University complied with the criminal investigation.

The universities are in impossible situations. To adhere to the incredibly low burden of Title IX cases they are left wide-open to potential liability from the accused. If there is a sexual assault, the university has to essentially treat the accused as presumptively guilty to avoid potential Title IX issues. However, if they treat the accused that way, they are wide open to litigation from the accused. They are in an impossible situation.

When I was in law school, I worked for this group that essentially offered pro-bono legal work for students. It was usually things like landlord/tenant issues, drinking tickets, etc. However, we did get some cases with more bite. Those cases were handled by the actual attorneys and the students just assisted the attorney (research, client intake, etc.). In that six month span, there were 3 different guys who came to the clinic for assistance in situations where the school had to ruin these guys' lives even though charges were dismissed (never brought) for an alleged sexual assault. We obviously pointing these students in the direction of "real lawyers". But this issue is very real.

I have to think if the U dministration would have gone the other way, they would have had a pretty solid defense. Sure, someone with an agenda would have probably leaked that the EOAA's recommendations were not agreed to, but that's why they only recommend.

Seriously, unless there's a smoking gun none of us know about, the U's administration showed no real decision-making leadership here. If that is the case, I'll be extremely disappointed. Trust me, all the details will come out and I have a feeling some in the administration will become pretty uncomfortable should the details not support such a drastic step.

 

[supadupafly]

Is that a technical term? I get that this doesn't smell right, but some of the adjectives being thrown around are a bit over the top.

read up on EOAA director Kimberly Hewitt and the various ridiculous adventures of her and her band of EOAA marauders and you'll hopefully understand why i am rightly referring to her EOAA group as a rogue band of ultra-feminists, anti-male crusaders. Cheers!

 

[ruppertflywheel]

I have to think if the U dministration would have gone the other way, they would have had a pretty solid defense. Sure, someone with an agenda would have probably leaked that the EOAA's recommendations were not agreed to, but that's why they only recommend.

Seriously, unless there's a smoking gun none of us know about, the U's administration showed no real decision-making leadership here. If that is the case, I'll be extremely disappointed. Trust me, all the details will come out and I have a feeling some in the administration will become pretty uncomfortable should the details not support such a drastic step.

The U was spineless and gutless in the Madison fiasco ( firing Dutcher ) and it looks like they're going down the same road here.It wouldn't surprise me if they fired Claeys.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

If I were President of the U, I would quickly assemble a group of very intelligent professors, including law professors, to examine in detail the process the EEOA went through to arrive at their recommendations, whether they complied with their own rules/regs such as impartial interviews with all the suspended players and whether they singled out athletes/blacks. I would demand that every email and memo regarding this investigation be read. I suspect there is a 50-50 chance that the EEOA committee violated their own stated guidelines and my committee would find a "smoking gun" that taints the EEOA decisions, in which case the suspensions should be lifted for now until a proper investigation is completed. If I found that the committee acted without strictly following their own guidelines or found that Hewitt and company were over zealous in coming to these conclusions, I would suspend them for negligent conduct. I would make sure that my decision was backed up with strong evidence to assure federal regulators that I was not trying to undermine Title IX objectives.

This won't happen with Kaler, who is completely into PC and buys into the national rape crisis myth. Damaging law suits may be the only remedy for this sort of thing.

 

[DoubleAlum]

read up on EOAA director Kimberly Hewitt and the various ridiculous adventures of her and her band of EOAA marauders and you'll hopefully understand why i am rightly referring to her EOAA group as a rogue band of ultra-feminists, anti-male crusaders. Cheers!

Kimberly is a hottie!

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I have to think if the U dministration would have gone the other way, they would have had a pretty solid defense. Sure, someone with an agenda would have probably leaked that the EOAA's recommendations were not agreed to, but that's why they only recommend.

Seriously, unless there's a smoking gun none of us know about, the U's administration showed no real decision-making leadership here. If that is the case, I'll be extremely disappointed. Trust me, all the details will come out and I have a feeling some in the administration will become pretty uncomfortable should the details not support such a drastic step.

It's a cost-benefit analysis.

Schools get absolutely hammered for neglecting Title IX, so they are overly careful in these kinds of situations. They look much better if they suspend them and reinstate them than if they do nothing and something comes of it. Look at the comments section and even the article in the Pioneer Press. The article is essentially saying "are the players FINALLY going to get in trouble for this?". It ignores the fact that there was a criminal investigation, there was exonerating video, and the University was proactive during this entire ordeal. However, the second these Title IX things come up, the school looks awful (even when they adhere to the recommendations).

It is an AWFUL situation.

 

[gophersfan]

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[Bob_Loblaw]

What is flabbergasting me is that every comment over the last hour has focused on the sexytime act. And NOT on the fact that Buford's dismissal letter says he was expelled for harassment, intimidation, etc. NOT for a sex act. Do you really think that this 10 person issue is because of a train? Or because of what happened after that night?
Why aren't you all connecting those dots? They are there for you.
Or am I missing something?

When this all plays out, wait until you hear their definition of "harassment".

It is really common for these cases for harassment to be things like defending yourself or telling the truth. Last night when I commented on this topic I brought up harassment because that is ALWAYS how these things playout.

I have seen similar situations where the accused and witnesses told people "she was lying" and that was enough for these wacko progressive offices to recommend expulsion for "harassment".

You have to keep in mind that these people usually have similar friend groups who are talking about these things and if people defend themselves (even if they are telling the truth) to a third party who then tells someone else. . . it's harassment.

I'm telling you, these offices are nuts. Wait till you hear what constitutes harassment, it's almost as crazy as what constitutes consent.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

Kimberly is a hottie!

Ah..... don't think so. My guess is she wears a lot of black&#55357;&#56441;

 

[PMWinSTP]

Special shout out number two to supadupafly for their contributions to the ultra hot chili, brain-dead takes in the last few pages of this thread.

There was otherwise a lot of good discussion in there. Schools aren't equipped to handle this stuff well right now. I wonder how it will be 5-10 years from now. I have a few more points I want to make.

-Some people need a reality check, that EOAA and U officials fully realize how serious it is to suspend a group of 10 football players right now. There is no way in hell that they would go through with this, and leave themselves open to a ton of really serious financial and institutional repercussions, if there wasn't some sort of absolutely ironclad violation of the code of conduct, or at least that they are following a transparent and documented precedent for how to proceed with something like this.
-Until we hear that Coyle Charlie Brown Footballed this entire thing. But, you have to assume that isn't the case until it becomes obvious that it is.

-THIS isn't some sort of "PC charade" that is being carried out, you Eisenhower Warriors. A different argument is that the code of conduct as a whole contains "PC charades" and you are entitled to argue that... but this is on file and most importantly everybody affected by this is aware of it and has agreed to abide by it, for years and years at this point. There are no surprises, deal with it.

-To whoever said something like "this will hurt recruiting, why would you want your child to go to school in such a PC fantasy world like this?" I would say, worse is an institution where Baylor-like incidents are handled in that manner by those in charge. Right now there are 2 ways. This, or that. Until a third way becomes clear, figure out which side of the fence you will decide to stand on and deal with it, destroyed Nickel Package and all. I bet most side with this way of handling things rather than the Baylor method.

-People are creating group-think false realities about what this incident was. Nobody really knows, and we do not know the details of what actually was in violation of the code of conduct. Comment and think appropriately until then.

If you think this administration would not make a decision, given the high profile fail of Baylor, based on potential negative public perception and the optics of their decision, you are naive my friend.

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

Kimberly is a hottie!

Relevance?

 

[Ewert86PC]

read up on EOAA director Kimberly Hewitt and the various ridiculous adventures of her and her band of EOAA marauders and you'll hopefully understand why i am rightly referring to her EOAA group as a rogue band of ultra-feminists, anti-male crusaders. Cheers!

Do I have to? We have TV commercials where we have one educator whose mission is to "hold governments accountable for past abuses." Doesn't that tell you all that you need to know?

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[Bob_Loblaw]

Does anyone think that it isn't appropriate to get in line to take turns screwing a drunk woman? Isn't it off-putting to video it? Does anyone besides me think that that's a bit disturbing? I know I am old and old-fashioned but what ever happened to dating? I don't think anyone would argue that women and men have the same experience/feelings about sex and that perhaps the hook-up culture doesn't feel as awesome for women when they sober up as it might for men. These differences are probably the root of the argument that there's a "rape culture" as viewed by many women and "pc police" who are "ultra-feminists" as viewed by many men. I would credit these opposing views of the same incidents as two sexes experiencing the same sex in very different ways. The fact that the guys videoed it is evidence that they didn't think they were raping anyone. The fact that filed charges suggests that she felt she was raped. But ultimately, the players are representatives of the university. Schools spend about $500K on a d1 power 5 football player during their career. Does a guy standing in line to screw a drunk woman when his buddy films it represent the University's values? If not, then perhaps the system is working. If it does, then there are those of us who might have a problem supporting the football program in the future.

Don't you see how your mindset is treating women as children? If a woman gives consent, she gives consent. She might have regrets. A lot of us have regrets about things that we initially consented to do. However, she is an adult and she should be treated like an adult. Her regret does not equal rape. It is disgusting that anyone would try to shoehorn the term "rape" into what is essentially "regret". It's disgusting to do the people that partook in a consensual act and it's disgusting to the victims of actual rape. The term "rape culture" is newspeak for regrettable sex. Well guess what, I imagine that these football players are really regretting this act as well. Are they now victims of this perceived rape culture? No. They are victims of regressive nuts that have infiltrated college campuses.

As far as your morals and things you believe in, who cares? Are you also advocating she gets kicked out of school? Or are you going to continue to devalue women and treat them like children (they can't give consent, us adults will figure out if they really meant it). We're in the United States and this is a public university, if the students aren't doing anything illegal and they aren't hurting anyone, who the hell am I to say they aren't representing the University's values. The particular details of a student's sex life is not for us to judge.

As far as "the fact the filed charges suggests that she felt she was raped". How so? People don't lie?

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

When this all plays out, wait until you hear their definition of "harassment".

It is really common for these cases for harassment to be things like defending yourself or telling the truth. Last night when I commented on this topic I brought up harassment because that is ALWAYS how these things playout.

I have seen similar situations where the accused and witnesses told people "she was lying" and that was enough for these wacko progressive offices to recommend expulsion for "harassment".

You have to keep in mind that these people usually have similar friend groups who are talking about these things and if people defend themselves (even if they are telling the truth) to a third party who then tells someone else. . . it's harassment.

I'm telling you, these offices are nuts. Wait till you hear what constitutes harassment, it's almost as crazy as what constitutes consent.

I have no doubt that you're right. I just would like the details to come out so that we know what we're dealing with. Not sure when or it that happens but without the details its tough to make a judgement on whether or not the suspensions are appropriate.

 

[PMWinSTP]

It's a cost-benefit analysis.

Schools get absolutely hammered for neglecting Title IX, so they are overly careful in these kinds of situations. They look much better if they suspend them and reinstate them than if they do nothing and something comes of it. Look at the comments section and even the article in the Pioneer Press. The article is essentially saying "are the players FINALLY going to get in trouble for this?". It ignores the fact that there was a criminal investigation, there was exonerating video, and the University was proactive during this entire ordeal. However, the second these Title IX things come up, the school looks awful (even when they adhere to the recommendations).

It is an AWFUL situation.

I think it is about to cost them a lot.

 

[Gopher028]

If not shared yet, here you go.
Public employees, feel free to express your feelings.
https://diversity.umn.edu/eoaa/staff

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

If not shared yet, here you go.
Public employees, feel free to express your feelings.
https://diversity.umn.edu/eoaa/staff

I'm guessing these people won't be bothered by a barrage of emails from football fans. I'm sure they would be thrilled to know that they have the fan base upset.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Do I have to? We have TV commercials where we have one educator whose mission is to "hold governments accountable for past abuses." Doesn't that tell you all that you need to know?

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My ex girlfriend from law school is in this particular department right now, so curiosity gets the better of me when anything comes out involving the EoAA at U of MN. Their antics will make you want to pull out your hair and eventually just laugh.

It's insanity.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think it is about to cost them a lot.

I hear you. It's a tough spot. They face a cost either way they go. They tend to save face in the court of public opinion going this route. But you're right, the University is absolutely in a damned if you, damned if you don't situation.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I have no doubt that you're right. I just would like the details to come out so that we know what we're dealing with. Not sure when or it that happens but without the details its tough to make a judgement on whether or not the suspensions are appropriate.

That is fair. I could certainly be talking out of turn and this could certainly be a situation where actual harassment has taken place. Keep in mind that we have laws on actual harassment though. For this to be a recommendation from this office and not an additional criminal charge of harassment is telling.

I could certainly be wrong on this and I don't have any inside information, but cast an incredibly wide net when they use the term harassment. But you're 100% right, this could be that time of the day where the broken clock is actually right .

 

[scalgopher]

Almost the start of Big 10 league play for bb.Watch out Petino,could be next.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Here we go...if the U administration chooses to drag it's feet, something is amiss. I don't see this ending well for them. Seriously, if in fact some players who were suspended were there but merely asleep in another bedroom as reported, the regents should call for a complete and transparent outside investigation into the EOAA investigation and subsequent actions taken by the administration leadership.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/12/14/gophers-football-players-request-formal-hearing-on-suspensions/