Temple's Anthony Lee transferring elsewhere for final season

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This type of player is right up the Mayor's alley. Hopefully, Pitino can work some magic!
 

I don't understand the dislike for Fred Hoiberg. Seems like a really good dude & a class act to me, has always presented himself that way while with the T-Wolves and now @ Iowa State. So he takes chances on talented players that had trouble elsewhere? He's far from the first coach in the world to do that.

And it's not like he hasn't developed/isn't developing recruits that came into his program as freshmen. Ejim, Niang, Thomas, Morris, and Long all look like good players (or will be).
 

SelectionSunday said:
I don't understand the dislike for Fred Hoiberg. Seems like a really good dude & a class act to me, has always presented himself that way while with the T-Wolves and now @ Iowa State. So he takes chances on talented players that had trouble elsewhere? He's far from the first coach in the world to do that.

And it's not like he hasn't developed/isn't developing recruits that came into his program as freshmen. Ejim, Niang, Thomas, Morris, and Long all look like good players (or will be).
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My two cents on this. He portrays himself as this squeaky clean fella, not so certain that is true. And he's going after MN kids - not to blame him, but obviously would like him to stay away. Overall seems like a good guy and would much rather see him coaching the Twolves than trying to recruit kids from MN.
 

BballJones said:
My two cents on this. He portrays himself as this squeaky clean fella, not so certain that is true. And he's going after MN kids - not to blame him, but obviously would like him to stay away. Overall seems like a good guy and would much rather see him coaching the Twolves than trying to recruit kids from MN.
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This is a contradiction.

I think most are probably just jealous of what he's built. I have no issue with his approach, but hope that he loses that recruiting battle with us.
 

BarnBoy said:
This is a contradiction.

I think most are probably just jealous of what he's built. I have no issue with his approach, but hope that he loses that recruiting battle with us.
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Overall seems like a good guy, but is likely not squeaky clean is a contradiction? How so?
 


BballJones said:
Overall seems like a good guy, but is likely not squeaky clean is a contradiction? How so?
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I see what you're saying. His public image is Mr. Can-Do-No-Wrong. Clean-cut, handsome, "Mayor of the town"... but you suspect there are some things going on behind the scenes of his program. Gotcha.
 

BarnBoy said:
I see what you're saying. His public image is Mr. Can-Do-No-Wrong. Clean-cut, handsome, "Mayor of the town"... but you suspect there are some things going on behind the scenes of his program. Gotcha.
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Exactly. I don't have anything to base it on except for him bringing in shady transfers and having a few issues with his players. And I completely agree that most are jealous of what Fred is doing in Ames - I'm in that boat. He's turned things around quickly.
 

EG#9 said:
OSU Fan, Fred has been able to get a few very good high school kids in as well like Niang and Morris. The offense they run their is certainly a draw and they have a great home court advantage. The certainly wouldn't be in the place they are in now (at least not yet), without our own Royce White...the gift that keeps on giving.
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Niang is the only player he has added since he has been there that came straight from high school and so far has proven to be a particularly good player for them. Morris was rated highly but hasn't thrived nearly as much as the transfers have. I looked it up, and Ejim was already signed prior to Hoiberg joining the program so you can't give him credit for Ejim. Really odd way of "recruiting" a team, as if he doesn't know how to evaluate players until he sees them in college, THEN he knows who to go after.

What bothers me is he is like John Calipari only with transfers now, rebuilding his team every year with new 1-year rentals, yet unlike Calipari he isn't really putting these guys into the NBA (and he's not at a historically excellent program), and he doesn't get any of the negative stigma Calipari has while adopting somewhat similar tactics. For instance, Hoiberg has cut a player loose in the spring that he signed in the fall to create room for what he perceives to be a better player. I guess I just don't understand the attraction as far as why transfers flock there year after year in the numbers that they have. Iowa State is hardly the only good option that transfers have, and to be getting them in the concentration that Hoiberg has - combined with his comparably poor success rate in recruitment of high school players - just doesn't add up to me. It's just not a sustainable plan to have to expect you will be able to continue to get the top transfers every year, maybe Hoiberg doesn't plan on being in college long anyway but sooner or later he's not going to get whoever he wants from the transfer market and he will have a poor team as a result.

And yes I find it odd to read reports that Lee would favor Iowa State considering they have Niang already and he basically plays the same role that Lee would have. The other programs on his "final" list, I don't think any of those others will have nearly as good a player coming back at Lee's position compared to Niang, so Iowa State would actually be dead last on that list if it was me making the decision.

I wouldn't say I am jealous of Iowa State at all - why would I be? - but some of the things that Hoiberg has done bother me. Maybe it's that it seems to me almost like he doesn't truly respect players with the way he churns & burns them. Maybe it was him and his family only after watching video replay blaming the charge call on ISU for their loss to OSU, when in reality that was a tough call to make live and they couldn't tell it was a bad call from the angles they had live. Maybe it's all of that and his team competing with mine for a transfer. :)
 

OSUfan said:
Niang is the only player he has added since he has been there that came straight from high school and so far has proven to be a particularly good player for them. Morris was rated highly but hasn't thrived nearly as much as the transfers have. I looked it up, and Ejim was already signed prior to Hoiberg joining the program so you can't give him credit for Ejim. Really odd way of "recruiting" a team, as if he doesn't know how to evaluate players until he sees them in college, THEN he knows who to go after.

What bothers me is he is like John Calipari only with transfers now, rebuilding his team every year with new 1-year rentals, yet unlike Calipari he isn't really putting these guys into the NBA (and he's not at a historically excellent program), and he doesn't get any of the negative stigma Calipari has while adopting somewhat similar tactics. For instance, Hoiberg has cut a player loose in the spring that he signed in the fall to create room for what he perceives to be a better player. I guess I just don't understand the attraction as far as why transfers flock there year after year in the numbers that they have. Iowa State is hardly the only good option that transfers have, and to be getting them in the concentration that Hoiberg has - combined with his comparably poor success rate in recruitment of high school players - just doesn't add up to me. It's just not a sustainable plan to have to expect you will be able to continue to get the top transfers every year, maybe Hoiberg doesn't plan on being in college long anyway but sooner or later he's not going to get whoever he wants from the transfer market and he will have a poor team as a result.

And yes I find it odd to read reports that Lee would favor Iowa State considering they have Niang already and he basically plays the same role that Lee would have. The other programs on his "final" list, I don't think any of those others will have nearly as good a player coming back at Lee's position compared to Niang, so Iowa State would actually be dead last on that list if it was me making the decision.

I wouldn't say I am jealous of Iowa State at all - why would I be? - but some of the things that Hoiberg has done bother me. Maybe it's that it seems to me almost like he doesn't truly respect players with the way he churns & burns them. Maybe it was him and his family only after watching video replay blaming the charge call on ISU for their loss to OSU, when in reality that was a tough call to make live and they couldn't tell it was a bad call from the angles they had live. Maybe it's all of that and his team competing with mine for a transfer. :)
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Don't disagree with much of what you have said. I would also add that Hoiberg has another transfer PF in McKay who is already on campus in Ames. McKay went to Marquette out of JUCO, participated in a few practices and then decided to transfer. Despite having offers from a number of good programs, McKay decided to pay his own way at Iowa State this year and will be on scholarship next year. One of the reasons McKay allegedly left Marquette was that he wanted to play more on the perimeter than he was going to be allowed to play under Buzz. Ant Lee allegedly wants to not play C anymore, but he's considering Iowa State where they already have Niang and McKay as upperclassmen who want/need to play the 4.

I think Fred puts an exciting style of basketball on the floor and is great with the X's and O's. I think transfers flock to Ames because of Hoiberg's style of play and also Royce White's "success" story that he has to sell. White came to Ames, played one year, got exposure in the NCAA tournament, and got drafted in the first round. I share your frustration with the blind eye and/or the positive spin put on how he's acquired talent. I think it's smart, but like I said in my previous post, it can only be done at schools where there is a unique cooperation between the administration, media, and fan base.
 



EG#9 said:
Don't disagree with much of what you have said. I would also add that Hoiberg has another transfer PF in McKay who is already on campus in Ames. McKay went to Marquette out of JUCO, participated in a few practices and then decided to transfer. Despite having offers from a number of good programs, McKay decided to pay his own way at Iowa State this year and will be on scholarship next year. One of the reasons McKay allegedly left Marquette was that he wanted to play more on the perimeter than he was going to be allowed to play under Buzz. Ant Lee allegedly wants to not play C anymore, but he's considering Iowa State where they already have Niang and McKay as upperclassmen who want/need to play the 4.

I think Fred puts an exciting style of basketball on the floor and is great with the X's and O's. I think transfers flock to Ames because of Hoiberg's style of play and also Royce White's "success" story that he has to sell. White came to Ames, played one year, got exposure in the NCAA tournament, and got drafted in the first round. I share your frustration with the blind eye and/or the positive spin put on how he's acquired talent. I think it's smart, but like I said in my previous post, it can only be done at schools where there is a unique cooperation between the administration, media, and fan base.
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Good post. I tend to agree that there is seemingly a double standard in the media when it comes to certain coaches. Hoiberg is one of them apparently. Young, good looking coach who has the NBA track record and seemingly on the fast track to get an NBA HC gig. Must be destined for success, of course he will win, right? But it's a lot easier to win when you can cut some corners that other coaches won't cut.

It's funny how Bo Ryan was the subject of much media scrutiny and admonishment when he didn't want to release Uthoff go to a couple dozen schools, he actually wanted the kid to stay at Wisconsin on full scholarship, and the kid eventually was allowed to transfer anywhere yet it all made Bo look bad, while on the other hand Hoiberg releases a kid for no fair reason - a player HE recruited and signed to Iowa State five months before - just to make room for a transfer and nobody cares.

And while yes it's nice to give kids second chances, and none of them have truly blown up in his face yet, I don't think a lot of these players are guys that a fan of the team would feel particularly good about rooting for. As Gopher fans know, Royce White is hardly a role model. Korie Lucious skipping the postgame handshake line because he's a sore loser. Tyrus McGee, so what if he just steals out of somebody's wallet, if they're just lying around then what else are you supposed to do? So what, right, it's Iowa State?
 

OSUfan said:
Good post. I tend to agree that there is seemingly a double standard in the media when it comes to certain coaches. Hoiberg is one of them apparently. Young, good looking coach who has the NBA track record and seemingly on the fast track to get an NBA HC gig. Must be destined for success, of course he will win, right? But it's a lot easier to win when you can cut some corners that other coaches won't cut.

It's funny how Bo Ryan was the subject of much media scrutiny and admonishment when he didn't want to release Uthoff go to a couple dozen schools, he actually wanted the kid to stay at Wisconsin on full scholarship, and the kid eventually was allowed to transfer anywhere yet it all made Bo look bad, while on the other hand Hoiberg releases a kid for no fair reason - a player HE recruited and signed to Iowa State five months before - just to make room for a transfer and nobody cares.

And while yes it's nice to give kids second chances, and none of them have truly blown up in his face yet, I don't think a lot of these players are guys that a fan of the team would feel particularly good about rooting for. As Gopher fans know, Royce White is hardly a role model. Korie Lucious skipping the postgame handshake line because he's a sore loser. Tyrus McGee, so what if he just steals out of somebody's wallet, if they're just lying around then what else are you supposed to do? So what, right, it's Iowa State?
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Good discussion. I would say whether the media gets on these issues is directly related to whether the player and his family choose to bring the media into it. If they make a PR move to shame the coach (whether deserved or not) the media will pick it up and crucify the coach like they did to Bo. If they keep quiet, a legitimate strategic option, there is no story for the media to jump on. I can easily see a guy getting run off staying quiet in order to not hurt his chances of getting a scholarship somewhere else. No one wants the risk of negative publicity and taking a kid/family into the program that has a history of that may be more trouble than it's worth, thus the quiet transfer. I don't like it. I suspect few people do, but it is what it is.

Tangential but related is that Freddie reduces his risk with potential high risk transfers by having them around for a short period of time. It's hard to grow a major scandal in only one year of playing. As much as a "success" story as Royce is for them, if he had hund around another year, something would have blown. Churning them in and out of the program reduces the risk of an all out scandal.
 

OSUfan said:
Niang is the only player he has added since he has been there that came straight from high school and so far has proven to be a particularly good player for them. Morris was rated highly but hasn't thrived nearly as much as the transfers have. I looked it up, and Ejim was already signed prior to Hoiberg joining the program so you can't give him credit for Ejim. Really odd way of "recruiting" a team, as if he doesn't know how to evaluate players until he sees them in college, THEN he knows who to go after.

What bothers me is he is like John Calipari only with transfers now, rebuilding his team every year with new 1-year rentals, yet unlike Calipari he isn't really putting these guys into the NBA (and he's not at a historically excellent program), and he doesn't get any of the negative stigma Calipari has while adopting somewhat similar tactics. For instance, Hoiberg has cut a player loose in the spring that he signed in the fall to create room for what he perceives to be a better player. I guess I just don't understand the attraction as far as why transfers flock there year after year in the numbers that they have. Iowa State is hardly the only good option that transfers have, and to be getting them in the concentration that Hoiberg has - combined with his comparably poor success rate in recruitment of high school players - just doesn't add up to me. It's just not a sustainable plan to have to expect you will be able to continue to get the top transfers every year, maybe Hoiberg doesn't plan on being in college long anyway but sooner or later he's not going to get whoever he wants from the transfer market and he will have a poor team as a result.

I wouldn't say I am jealous of Iowa State at all - why would I be? - but some of the things that Hoiberg has done bother me. Maybe it's that it seems to me almost like he doesn't truly respect players with the way he churns & burns them. Maybe it was him and his family only after watching video replay blaming the charge call on ISU for their loss to OSU, when in reality that was a tough call to make live and they couldn't tell it was a bad call from the angles they had live. Maybe it's all of that and his team competing with mine for a transfer. :)
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Interesting take on things... full disclosure here... I'm an ISU fan so take my comments for what you will...

I think there is some sort of disconnect here so I felt obligated to point out some things. Feel free to disagree. No big deal.

#1 - Fred has taken only 2 one and done transfers since he has been at Iowa State. Jake Anderson (one of the directional Illinois schools) his first year and Kane (Marshall) this past year. That is it as far as the one year "rent a player" types. All other transfers were the standard sit out a year guys.

#2 - Of all the transfers he has taken, only two were dismissed from their previous team. Korie Lucious and Chris Allen. If you recall... White was "suspended" but never booted off the team. Tubby tried to talk him into staying. That doesn't mean he wasn't troubled or anything, just that he wasn't officially booted. The rest of the regular transfers.... Clyburn, Babb, Booker, Nader, and McKay all seem to be decent humans and had no baggage in the past or do now. They all had to sit out a year. White spent two years in Ames, not one.

#3 - We recruited Clyburn heavily before he didn't choose ISU. Same with McKay out of Indian Hills CC. They both initially chose different programs but came back to ISU when they weren't happy (for whatever reason). It wasn't like ISU came like a bolt out of the blue for either of these guys. McKay in particular is paying his own way until next fall. He had a ton of other options.

#4 - Fred has actually been quite successful recruiting high school guys (Vaughn not withstanding). Niang, Thomas, and Morris are all top 100 guys. Naz Long seems to be a pretty good player as well. That's two sophomores and two freshmen that play significant minutes on a team "loaded with transfers". They are pretty good. That doesn't even take into account Custer out of Kansas (top 100 guy) who will be a freshmen next fall.

I do agree with you on the Amardi situation where he was "let out" of his LOI to go play at Oregon when Kane became available. I'd be lying if i said it didn't make me cringe.
 

YellowSnow said:
Interesting take on things... full disclosure here... I'm an ISU fan so take my comments for what you will...

I think there is some sort of disconnect here so I felt obligated to point out some things. Feel free to disagree. No big deal.

#1 - Fred has taken only 2 one and done transfers since he has been at Iowa State. Jake Anderson (one of the directional Illinois schools) his first year and Kane (Marshall) this past year. That is it as far as the one year "rent a player" types. All other transfers were the standard sit out a year guys.

#2 - Of all the transfers he has taken, only two were dismissed from their previous team. Korie Lucious and Chris Allen. If you recall... White was "suspended" but never booted off the team. Tubby tried to talk him into staying. That doesn't mean he wasn't troubled or anything, just that he wasn't officially booted. The rest of the regular transfers.... Clyburn, Babb, Booker, Nader, and McKay all seem to be decent humans and had no baggage in the past or do now. They all had to sit out a year. White spent two years in Ames, not one.

#3 - We recruited Clyburn heavily before he didn't choose ISU. Same with McKay out of Indian Hills CC. They both initially chose different programs but came back to ISU when they weren't happy (for whatever reason). It wasn't like ISU came like a bolt out of the blue for either of these guys. McKay in particular is paying his own way until next fall. He had a ton of other options.

#4 - Fred has actually been quite successful recruiting high school guys (Vaughn not withstanding). Niang, Thomas, and Morris are all top 100 guys. Naz Long seems to be a pretty good player as well. That's two sophomores and two freshmen that play significant minutes on a team "loaded with transfers". They are pretty good. That doesn't even take into account Custer out of Kansas (top 100 guy) who will be a freshmen next fall.

I do agree with you on the Amardi situation where he was "let out" of his LOI to go play at Oregon when Kane became available. I'd be lying if i said it didn't make me cringe.
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I don't think you can separate Royce from a booted off list. He was suspended for multiple bad things, theft, pushing down a mall cop, laptop deal. Anyway, I see no real difference between his gopher exit compared to the other two you listed.
 





YellowSnow said:
Interesting take on things... full disclosure here... I'm an ISU fan so take my comments for what you will...

I think there is some sort of disconnect here so I felt obligated to point out some things. Feel free to disagree. No big deal.

#1 - Fred has taken only 2 one and done transfers since he has been at Iowa State. Jake Anderson (one of the directional Illinois schools) his first year and Kane (Marshall) this past year. That is it as far as the one year "rent a player" types. All other transfers were the standard sit out a year guys.

#2 - Of all the transfers he has taken, only two were dismissed from their previous team. Korie Lucious and Chris Allen. If you recall... White was "suspended" but never booted off the team. Tubby tried to talk him into staying. That doesn't mean he wasn't troubled or anything, just that he wasn't officially booted. The rest of the regular transfers.... Clyburn, Babb, Booker, Nader, and McKay all seem to be decent humans and had no baggage in the past or do now. They all had to sit out a year. White spent two years in Ames, not one.

#3 - We recruited Clyburn heavily before he didn't choose ISU. Same with McKay out of Indian Hills CC. They both initially chose different programs but came back to ISU when they weren't happy (for whatever reason). It wasn't like ISU came like a bolt out of the blue for either of these guys. McKay in particular is paying his own way until next fall. He had a ton of other options.

#4 - Fred has actually been quite successful recruiting high school guys (Vaughn not withstanding). Niang, Thomas, and Morris are all top 100 guys. Naz Long seems to be a pretty good player as well. That's two sophomores and two freshmen that play significant minutes on a team "loaded with transfers". They are pretty good. That doesn't even take into account Custer out of Kansas (top 100 guy) who will be a freshmen next fall.

I do agree with you on the Amardi situation where he was "let out" of his LOI to go play at Oregon when Kane became available. I'd be lying if i said it didn't make me cringe.
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Holy hell, you just listed TEN transfers in your post ... that would be a lot for a coach who's in his second decade, and Hoiberg's only been there 4 years!!

Doesn't even matter if they're all choirboys (obviously they're not), a lot of people just think it's shady to build a program on transfers.
 

XMan said:
I don't think you can separate Royce from a booted off list. He was suspended for multiple bad things, theft, pushing down a mall cop, laptop deal. Anyway, I see no real difference between his gopher exit compared to the other two you listed.
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Yes. And while it's pointless to argue whether he was technically "kicked out" of the program, I'm pretty sure he was never reinstated from suspension here.
 

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