Support for Royce

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SelectionSunday said:
"I promise I won't boo the kid when he comes on the court but right now I'm at best neutral on the kid. And, if he's convicted of this charge, I'm not going to be a supporter even if he scores and plays like the next Michael Jordan. He's made some major errors in judgement in the past that can be partially explained by youthful stupidity. If the shoplifting charge is proven, that excuse flies out the window. I expect kids to know they shouldn't steal by the age of, oh, four or five. And if he wrestled with the security guard as has been reported, I expect kids to know by 10 or 11 that it's a stupid thing to do.

"So Royce is going to have to earn support from this fan and (I suspect) a lot of other fans. That's not a matter of doing well on the court as much as it is by doing well in the community. Harder to demonstrate but he's lost a lot of ground with this latest reported escapade and the burden is on him, IMO."

As Fonzie would say, "Perfectamundo." Well said, Rick. My feelings exactly.

My personal opinion is the suspension should be at absolute bare minimum 9 games (roughly 28% of the games). That would sit his butt down on the bench through at least the Miami game. However, I expect it to be longer than that and would fully support it if he's suspended for the season (and no, this isn't an over-reaction, past actions do matter to me). Truth is, I'll be disappointed if he sees the court anytime before or during the 76 Classic/Miami.
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The last thing I want to see happen is for him to come back for a few cupcake games in December, then become academically ineligible after the Fall Semester and give the U more bad pub. Given his past, that seems entirely too likely. Therefore, I wouldn't let him back until he's academically cleared for second semester. Either make that the stipulation, or just make the suspension long enough that you will know his status by that point. Basically, keep your head down, don't screw up, go to class and we'll see you next semester. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 

Suspending him for the entire season would be just fine by me. It sounds like he was not a very good member of the University society before this incident (expelled from 2 dorms?) and of course he came here with a lot of baggage (expulsion from high school for cheating). Joel Maturi and Tubby also need to consider the risk this toxic person posses to the team. Perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky that the only humiliation Royce White has brought to the University of Minnesota is limited to cheating, theft and assault. If we allow him to stay it could be much worse. He is who he is.
 

YES.

howeda7 said:
The last thing I want to see happen is for him to come back for a few cupcake games in December, then become academically ineligible after the Fall Semester and give the U more bad pub. Given his past, that seems entirely too likely. Therefore, I wouldn't let him back until he's academically cleared for second semester. Either make that the stipulation, or just make the suspension long enough that you will know his status by that point. Basically, keep your head down, don't screw up, go to class and we'll see you next semester. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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If found guilty I agree. I would also like to see community service. Royce needs to prove he wants to be on the team and at the U.
 

As a guy who had a small business I can tell you that shop lifting hit me personally.

And for every shoplifter caught, there were 20-50 that aren't. So was this the first time White shoplifted ... or the 20th?

A two to six game suspension would be a total joke. White has let his coach, teammates ,the university and it's fan base down. I can't wait to see the quote his grandfather will now make about him being a "good" kid.

The sad thing is that if you, deservedly, bounce White from the team, as a talented basketball player he just changes schools without too much fuss. What did he learn from being kicked out of DeLaSalle and ending up on a state championship team as punishment?
 

"Support"

In response to the title of this thread, I'm more inclined to throw my "support" at the guys who'll actually be playing tomorrow night. They'll get my full support, as it appears (as far as we know) their university, coaches and teammates are important enough to them to keep their noses clean on and off the court.
 


Rotundo said:
Suspending him for the entire season would be just fine by me. It sounds like he was not a very good member of the University society before this incident (expelled from 2 dorms?) and of course he came here with a lot of baggage (expulsion from high school for cheating). Joel Maturi and Tubby also need to consider the risk this toxic person posses to the team. Perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky that the only humiliation Royce White has brought to the University of Minnesota is limited to cheating, theft and assault. If we allow him to stay it could be much worse. He is who he is.
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Wait...what is this?

I haven't seen any other reference to his being expelled from two dorms. Please clarify.
 

GopherRicky...you started this thread with these words...""I can't believe the fools who want to kick Royce off the team "". You are new here, and already calling people that express their opinions which are different from yours, "fools". Tread more carefully, Ricky Ticky Ringbone.
 

Mikie S said:
As a guy who had a small business I can tell you that shop lifting hit me personally.

And for every shoplifter caught, there were 20-50 that aren't. So was this the first time White shoplifted ... or the 20th?

A two to six game suspension would be a total joke. White has let his coach, teammates ,the university and it's fan base down. I can't wait to see the quote his grandfather will now make about him being a "good" kid.

The sad thing is that if you, deservedly, bounce White from the team, as a talented basketball player he just changes schools without too much fuss. What did he learn from being kicked out of DeLaSalle and ending up on a state championship team as punishment?
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Very true. DeLaSalle tried to teach Royce a lesson after repeated infractions. As you say, he is rewarded with a state championship. I might add, he is also given a scholarship to the U of M. At that time I felt the University should have sopported DeLaSalle's decision. Royce promises Tubby he will clean up his act and be a credit to the program. Instead he throws he promise back in Tubby's face and disgraces the program. Royce shows his word is no good. He shows he has no respect for others by being disruptive in his dorm. Now we find he is a arrested for theft and assault.

It seems harsh to me to oust him from the program at this time. After all, I think the U of M has excepted some responsibility for him and for trying to alter his behavior. But, he has to pay a price now. I'm sure Tubby will handle this fairly.

At some point it has to be decided if Royce's welfare can be salvaged or is it time to think about the integrity of the program.
 

I remember the day when the only court that was talked about was a basketball court. I don,t know what has happened but every school seems to have it,s share of off court trouble. I sure do miss those days.
 



melbo said:
I remember the day when the only court that was talked about was a basketball court. I don,t know what has happened but every school seems to have it,s share of off court trouble. I sure do miss those days.
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True. I am thinking that Tubby may go to NBA if he keeps getting screwed by these young and foolish kids. Tubby has let a few troubled kids go in the past. He also let one stay. His name was Camara (not sure about spelling). He had a DUI in his record but ended up to be a good player. I remember him being pushed by Tubby in one game out of frustration. Camera was right on him. He turned around and gave Tubby a stare and walked away. For some reason, that was it. He became a much better player after that. It could have easily gone the other way if Camara reacted differently. Lets hope that Tubby did his push on White in practice.
 

Are you people kidding me, if you brought this kid into your home and provided him with everything he needed and you found out he was no more than a common thief, you would just say well don't go to the mall and try to say out of trouble and it will all blow over, everything will be fine.
It's not like this kid doesn't have history. I'm sorry hes out for a year just for the ill wind he has brought onto the U of M and the BB team. If he stays out of trouble and comes back next year, maybe I take him back on conditions.
I agree that you need to earn a chance to get a full ride, not just be good enough.
 

Episodes like the ones these youn men (White and Mbwake, possibly Bostic - I don't know the details on his suspension), assuming that the allegations are true, are troubling to me for two reasons. First, they are showing no appreciation or gratitude for what they have - great basketball talent, a free education, the opportunity to play with great teammates and a great coach. Second, their behavior is inexcusable. I expect my 8-year-old grandson to not steal or hurt anyone else, and he complys. Surely these young men can behave as well as an 8-year-old.
I do believe in second chances, but these players have broken a bond of trust with and must earn another chance. For what it's worth, I know young people make mistakes, but most are able to get through college without getting into the kind of trouble these young men are in. I did, and so did all of my teammates.

I would also like to recognize the other players and commend them for staying out of trouble and doing at least as much school work as is needed to stay eligible. I hope that they have a great season.
 

It's not as if this were an incident of innocence - I didn't know my body would react to alcohol that way. No, the charges relate to a collapse of consciousness, or a meltdown in morailty, I want that, I'll take that!

It's not a "couple of misdemeanors" its a complete lack of social orientation, or even socialization. It's me above them.

This young man doesn't have the social awareness demanded of a college freshman. Jettison this cancer before it attaches to the team.
 



I am with Selection on this one, 10-15 games minimum. He needs to start to realize that these stupid things he does have consequences. Bostick on the other hand will be much less as his deal isn't nearly as serious and doesn't involve the law.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Both sides are correct imo. This is not an incident which merits dismissal from the team and at the same time he is on the road to ruin with his well chronicled pattern of poor behavior, poor sportsmanship and lack of respect for others.
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Amen, brother....couldn't have stated this situation better. I want a winning program as badly as anyone but I also want players on the team that I can be proud of.
 

It's safe to assume that Coach Smith has likely dealt with similar kids and issues during his career. It's a nice perk in having an experienced head coach. He's earned the credibility to use his gut on this one. I imagine there are going to be some serious conditions to his return to the team, and I don't know if I'd give him 50% odds of meeting them for the next four years. Too bad because he's got the skills to be the best forward since Willie Burton, and become a player we remember for a long time. I had an interaction with him this past summer that he initiated on his own with my son. It was a really nice gesture that you wouldn't expect from a marquee player that went unnoticed by everyone but the three of us. It's too bad that he's sabotaging his own career.
 

akgopher said:
It's safe to assume that Coach Smith has likely dealt with similar kids and issues during his career. It's a nice perk in having an experienced head coach. He's earned the credibility to use his gut on this one. I imagine there are going to be some serious conditions to his return to the team, and I don't know if I'd give him 50% odds of meeting them for the next four years. Too bad because he's got the skills to be the best forward since Willie Burton, and become a player we remember for a long time. I had an interaction with him this past summer that he initiated on his own with my son. It was a really nice gesture that you wouldn't expect from a marquee player that went unnoticed by everyone but the three of us. It's too bad that he's sabotaging his own career.
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Jason Parker. Adam Chiles. Erik Daniels. Gerald Fitch. Cory Sears. Jules Camara. Desmond Allison. Myron Anthony. All were suspended for a period of time (up to a year) by Tubby at UK.

All did really dumb things. Parker, Chiles, Sears, Anthony continued to do dumb things at their next school.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
I am with Selection on this one, 10-15 games minimum. He needs to start to realize that these stupid things he does have consequences. Bostick on the other hand will be much less as his deal isn't nearly as serious and doesn't involve the law.
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Tubby said (up to) 20 games. Don't be surprised if he meant it.
 

One year for Royce....period. Some players need a redshirt to develop physically. Apparently Royce could use that year to develop socially and emotionally. He is in dire need of a serious intervention and I do truly care about him as a person - not basketball player - to get his life on track even if he never plays a game in a Gopher uniform.
 

I think some people are being a little harsh here...this could very well be the only year Royce plays college basketball. If you're going to suspend him for 20 games, you might as well kick him off the team. If the NCAA is not going to step in and bar him from playing, just give him a token slap on the wrist of 3-5 games and move on. Tubby's got to worry about winning basketball games and White needs to be ready for the big ten season. This is basketball not a morality contest...the season will be defined by wins and losses not by the quality of men we put on the court. Youth sports and high school are the place for symbolism not the big business of division one basketball. I wonder if the incident will be on the mall cops show featuring the MOA security guards...that would definitely be a must see.
 

Couldn't disagree more...if he truly is "one and done" then take the baggage elsewhere. Sorry to be harsh but why would we take the "stain" for a player that will only be here one year? (Assuming he is ACTUALLY guilty)
 

Blizzard said:
Unrelated-

I'm still wondering about the Bostick suspension. I'm going to throw out a theory for fun.

Could it be that Bostick was assigned to White as a senior/freshman mentor type of thing?
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If by "assigned to White" you mean 'marijuana' (?) and by "mentor" you mean a 'philly blunt' (?) then I think you nailed it. :D
 

"The last thing I want to see happen is for him to come back for a few cupcake games in December, then become academically ineligible after the Fall Semester and give the U more bad pub. Given his past, that seems entirely too likely. Therefore, I wouldn't let him back until he's academically cleared for second semester."

Making sure he's going to be solid for second semester makes a lot of sense partner.
 

"If the NCAA is not going to step in and bar him from playing. ..."

Again, this has NOTHING TO DO with the NCAA. This is a university/team issue. There's nothing for the NCAA to rule on. We're not talking about NCAA violations. There's a huge difference.
 

My point exactly Selection...I completely respect the point of view of yours and others of wanting to protect the 'image' of the University. I can see where you're coming from, I just happen to not care about the perceived purity. It's an imaginary construct. As long as we're are not breaking NCAA rules, I want victories and I want the most talent on the floor as possible...which includes Royce. I've known people in the real world who have gotten felonies and not lost their job, and I don't think they were as essential to the success of their business as Royce is to this business. We're not asking Royce to teach an ethics class, we're asking him to score points and rebound.
 

Fair enough.

Believe me, I'm very well aware that major college athletics and the word "purity" quite often don't go hand in hand. To some extent, anyone involved in major college athletics -- and I'm speaking most specifically about football and men's basketball -- has to sell at least a small part of their soul. As a fan I accept that and know the deal when I watch college basketball. If I don't accept it, there's no way I could enjoy what goes on on the court/field.

It is during times like the last few days where I remind myself that despite the news in the papers, there are a lot more good people (coaches, players, administrators) involved in athletics than bad. We just don't hear about them much.

But it's the knuckleheads who can't even wait until their first official practice to get in (to more) trouble for whom I have no patience. I can't fathom how a kid already on a short leash 3 days before the start of his first collegiate season wakes up, gets out of bed, and thinks to himself, "What am I going to do today? I think I'm going to go to the MOA, shoplift and then assault a mall cop. Maybe I'll get away with it."
 

One thing we can all agree on is that it is frustrating...
 

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