STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

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Gophers_4life said:
No one has a clue what bad faith argument you’re trying to initiate here.
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You just said schools that offer non “liberal arts” majors aren’t really liberal arts schools.

Since Macalester offers non liberal arts majors like mathematics, biochemistry, pre-engineering etc...according to you they aren’t a liberal arts school. I never knew that! Thanks!
 


Some guy said:
You just said schools that offer non “liberal arts” majors aren’t really liberal arts schools.

Since Macalester offers non liberal arts majors like mathematics, biochemistry, pre-engineering etc...according to you they aren’t a liberal arts school. I never knew that! Thanks!
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You can’t possibly be real .... that you think math and chemistry aren’t liberal arts?????

Pre- is what school like that offer when they don’t have the actual major for undergrads. It’s exactly what liberal arts colleges do. You take math and physics, because those courses prepare you just fine for engineering courses. Chemistry and biology for medicine. Etc.
 


Gophers_4life said:
You can’t possibly be real .... that you think math and chemistry aren’t liberal arts?????

Pre- is what school like that offer when they don’t have the actual major for undergrads. It’s exactly what liberal arts colleges do. You take math and physics, because those courses prepare you just fine for engineering courses. Chemistry and biology for medicine. Etc.
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Lol
 

Gophers_4life said:
You can’t possibly be real .... that you think math and chemistry aren’t liberal arts?????
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Math and Science are liberal arts classes? Can you let me know what isn’t a liberal arts class as I’m confused.


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Spoofin said:
Math and Science are liberal arts classes? Can you let me know what isn’t a liberal arts class as I’m confused.
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I’ll wait here while you list the liberal arts colleges that don’t offer any courses in math and science. Go ahead and check the MIAC and any other DIII conference you like.

While you’re at it, you might also want to investigate that many times math undergrads receive a B.A. degree instead of a B.S. (depends if their focus is “strictly” math vs. applied math, modeling, computer science, etc).
 
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Gophers_4life said:
I’ll wait here while you list the liberal arts colleges that don’t offer courses in math and science. Go ahead and check the MIAC and any other DIII conference you like.
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Of course they offer classes in those subjects - doesn’t make them liberal arts classes. I got an engineering degree from the (then) IT college at the U. It required me to take Sociology and Theatre classes - were those then engineering courses I took?


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Spoofin said:
Of course they offer classes in those subjects - doesn’t make them liberal arts classes.
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Nothing wrong that that simple argument ... you just haven’t provided any evidence that supports your side.

Even if you were right (which you’re not), if every single liberal arts college in the country offers courses in math and science, then it supports my original point.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I’ll wait here while you list the liberal arts colleges that don’t offer any courses in math and science. Go ahead and check the MIAC and any other DIII conference you like.

While you’re at it, you might also want to investigate that many times math undergrads receive a B.A. degree instead of a B.S. (depends if their focus is “strictly” math vs. applied math, modeling, computer science, etc).
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Macalaster has computer science and applied mathematics degrees.
 




PMWinSTP said:
Macalaster has computer science and applied mathematics degrees.
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Indeed! I would guess that is not uncommon at liberal arts colleges. They are inexpensive degrees to offer, you just need a computer and a brain. But those are definitely B.S. degrees, not liberal arts degrees.

Nothing is exactly binary, it's a spectrum.

Bethel has engineering as well. They are, and want to be, much closer to what St Thomas has done, than what the rest of the MIAC schools are. Would guess that Bethel will eventually be the next school to leave, but on a more voluntary basis.



The point always was, St Thomas is very much unlikely every other MIAC school (with probably the best exception being Bethel, except for the obvious difference there being the faith-based mission) and so when combined with things like enrollment, athletics spending and prowess, etc. is simply no longer a good fit for the conference.

That was always the truth, always the correct narrative. Of course, people choose the spin that they desire, so as to most align with their personal agendas.


Take Some Guy for example. He told us there wouldn't be a vote. Told us ST wouldn't be expelled. Told us his "sources" said so. All wrong. And he hasn't admitted he was wrong anywhere that I've seen, either. A clear personal agenda to force ST to stay in the MIAC, which blew up nicely in his face.

I suppose he'll tell us that his "sources" say that ST will not be leaving DIII. Kiss of death
 
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Gophers_4life said:
Take Some Guy for example. He told us there wouldn't be a vote. Told us ST wouldn't be expelled. Told us his "sources" said so. All wrong. And he hasn't admitted he was wrong anywhere that I've seen, either. <b>A clear personal agenda to force ST to stay in the MIAC, which blew up nicely in his face.</b>
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You think he was posting on GH with the intent to influence the outcome of this topic? Who exactly do you think reads this CF?


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That’s the part you respond to.

Means I’m correct on all the other parts. Good. Glad that’s settled.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I’ll wait here while you list the liberal arts colleges that don’t offer any courses in math and science. Go ahead and check the MIAC and any other DIII conference you like.

While you’re at it, you might also want to investigate that many times math undergrads receive a B.A. degree instead of a B.S. (depends if their focus is “strictly” math vs. applied math, modeling, computer science, etc).
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You say that any course outside of liberal arts makes the school a non liberal arts school and then proceed to say every course is liberal arts because they are offered by liberal arts.



I guess the Bible is true because the Bible says it’s true. And you can believe what you read in the Bible because it is true.
 

Geez -getting pretty far off field here. I think the whole argument over the definition of a "liberal arts" college is mostly a moot point. Almost every college or university offers at least some general classes in different fields. If you're a math major, you are not just going to take math classes. Shoot, at Brown College - the broadcasting school - before it folded, they had some basic english and math classes for students who had no other post-high school education. so, if you stretch the definition far enough, Brown College was a liberal arts college......with an emphasis on radio and TV broadcasting.

As far as I'm concerned, college is college. for it to be something else, you would (IMHO) have to attend a very specialized school, like an MIT or something of that nature. Or maybe a tech school where all you take are welding classes or something. This is a classic Gopher Hole argument for the sake of an argument.

And - back to the main point of the thread - St. Thomas does not belong in the MIAC anymore. goodbye and good luck. I still say they go the long route to D1. They'll go DII for a few years and eventually transition to D1. I put the odds of joining the WIAC at about 10-15% tops.
 

Some guy said:
You say that any course outside of liberal arts makes the school a non liberal arts school and then proceed to say every course is liberal arts because they are offered by liberal arts.
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Blah blah blah. Pretending to get bent out of shape over an inconsequential minutiae of the actual broader point because you know you have no response to that point and have lost.

St Thomas is far enough removed from most of the rest of the MIAC that their expulsion was warranted. You have nothing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
And - back to the main point of the thread - St. Thomas does not belong in the MIAC anymore. goodbye and good luck. I still say they go the long route to D1. They'll go DII for a few years and eventually transition to D1. I put the odds of joining the WIAC at about 10-15% tops.
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Correct on not belonging.

And while I do want them to leave DIII and even would encourage them to study DI and reach out to the Summit League and Pioneer League (football), at this time I would not yet bet on them doing that. I think there is a significant chance they’ll try to join the Wisc or Iowa schools in DIII.
 

To put the issue to bed, according to Wikipedia, St. Thomas is indeed a liberal arts college.

Minnesota

Augsburg University
Bethany Lutheran College
Carleton College
College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University
Concordia College
Gustavus Adolphus College
Hamline University
Macalester College
St. Olaf College
University of Minnesota Morris
University of St. Thomas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liberal_arts_colleges_in_the_United_States

There is no formal definition of liberal arts college, but one American authority defines them as schools that "emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study."[3] Other researchers have adopted similar definitions.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_college

Per that definition, STU would indeed be Liberal Arts.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Blah blah blah. Pretending to get bent out of shape over an inconsequential minutiae of the actual broader point because you know you have no response to that point and have lost.

St Thomas is far enough removed from most of the rest of the MIAC that their expulsion was warranted. You have nothing.
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People who win arguments don't need to point out that they "won" or that the either side "lost". It's like saying "that's funny" after telling a joke.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
To put the issue to bed, according to Wikipedia, St. Thomas is indeed a liberal arts college.

Minnesota

Augsburg University
Bethany Lutheran College
Carleton College
College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University
Concordia College
Gustavus Adolphus College
Hamline University
Macalester College
St. Olaf College
University of Minnesota Morris
University of St. Thomas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liberal_arts_colleges_in_the_United_States



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_college

Per that definition, STU would indeed be Liberal Arts.
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There is no formal definition of liberal arts college, but one American authority defines them as schools that "emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study."[3] Other researchers have adopted similar definitions.
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Although "emphasize" wasn't defined here .... nonetheless.

Congrats, you put forth an actual ounce of effort, and you win, on this inconsequential point.


As I said, it's a spectrum, and ST is too far removed from too many other MIAC schools. So it was and is appropriate for the conference to expel them.
 


This thread is starting to remind me of my friend’s birthday parties when we were kids. Every year for some unknown reason he and his older brother would get into a fight (yes, girlish-like windmill punches and awkward kicks) and the rest of us would begrudgingly wait it out until they were done. Both sides usually claimed victory despite nothing ever being resolved; but, once my friend was done bawling we could go back to having some fun.
 



FredCoxRocks said:
This thread is starting to remind me of my friend’s birthday parties when we were kids. Every year for some unknown reason he and his older brother would get into a fight (yes, girlish-like windmill punches and awkward kicks) and the rest of us would begrudgingly wait it out until they were done. Both sides usually claimed victory despite nothing ever being resolved; but, once my friend was done bawling we could go back to having some fun.
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I can't even figure out what some of the points have anything to do with the events described in the news....
 


The ignore list is a very good thing. Very good, but not perfect... I still have to see comments when other people quote them and I still see when my ignore list people post stuff, just not the words that they post. It really does make it obvious though, when you have an over-poster. I wonder how many individual comments 4life has posted in this thread alone? 100? 200?
 

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