STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

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TrapperDoo said:
Gopherphile said:
Why doesnt D2 make sense? I think Northern Sun is a gimee, and isnt Augustana leaving so they have a spot to fill? UMD and Bemidji used to be MIAC teams once upon a time, I believe ( at least St Johns played them every year).
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UMD was an MIAC member when I was at Augsburg in the early-1970s, but left in 1975. Terry Egerdahl was a three-sport beast. St. Olaf and Carleton rejoined the conference in 1975 and 1983 respectively. They played in the Midwest Conference prior to moving to the MIAC, playing against the like of Grinnell, Cornell (IA), Lake Forest (IA), and St. Norbert's (WI).

I have mixed feelings about his, knowing a lot of former MIAC athletes, especially those from Augsburg and St. Thomas through some basketball-related connections. The conference was much more balanced in the 1970s, but there have been powerhouses in certain sports at certain schools. Augsburg (my alma mater) has done extremely well in wrestling and no one has told them to move on. In football, there have been 3 or 4 teams at the top and those at or near the bottom have had no business on the field with the top-tier teams, at least on a consistent basis.

St. Thomas started to go big in a lot of ways in the 1970s and it has probably contributed to the passive-aggressive expression of the other MIAC members that ultimately resulted in this. I guess the thing I find odd is why St. Thomas would want to stay in the MIAC given their dominance in football. What's the challenge in racking up 60 points against teams that have no chance of beating you unless there is an Ebola outbreak on your sideline? I heard notorious no talent Paul Charchian and a couple of MIAC-related chuckleheads (one of whom coaches at St. Thomas) discussing this on KFAN yesterday and one of the guys said something to the effect that all of the athletes on the also-rans are probably disappointed because they will no longer have the opportunity to face the challenge of the St. Thomas juggernaut and have the chance to upset them and earn their place in athletic glory. I started laughing so hard I almost had to stop the Escape and pull off the road. What cheer went up in the St. Olaf locker room last fall? Was it "We held them to less than 90!"

In the long run, I think this will be a good thing. St. Thomas has clearly aspired to be a different type of higher education institution than the other members of the MIAC. They've largely succeeded and a laud them for it. That doesn't mean there won't be some hard feelings in the short term.
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TrapperDoo said:
Gopherphile said:
Why doesnt D2 make sense? I think Northern Sun is a gimee, and isnt Augustana leaving so they have a spot to fill? UMD and Bemidji used to be MIAC teams once upon a time, I believe ( at least St Johns played them every year).
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If they’re going to continue to invest in sports and start doling out scholarships and get into the muck re: recruiting, why would they want to join a local conference with a bunch of state schools and keep the same level of visibility? The ROI doesn’t make sense, nor does it jive with their current mission. If they’re going to alter their mission, the payback is D1.


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For the record, St. Thomas beat UW-Eau Claire 49-0 in 2018. UW-Eau Claire was a second-division team in the WIAC and UW-Whitewater is the perennial power in that conference, but I could see St. Thomas standing up to the competition over there quite well. UW-Whitewater only beat Bethel 26-12 in last year's D3 playoffs.
 

50PoundHead said:
For the record, St. Thomas beat UW-Eau Claire 49-0 in 2018. UW-Eau Claire was a second-division team in the WIAC and UW-Whitewater is the perennial power in that conference, but I could see St. Thomas standing up to the competition over there quite well. UW-Whitewater only beat Bethel 26-12 in last year's D3 playoffs.
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Concordia beat Whitewater 2 seasons ago too and enjoys that (now) annual series. UST would definately be in the uppper division of athletics there. That said, from a marketing perspective, I don't see much advantage of being in a D3 state school conference like the WIAC over being in state/private mixed D2 conference like the NSIC.
 



Panthadad2 said:
Concordia beat Whitewater 2 seasons ago too and enjoys that (now) annual series. UST would definately be in the uppper division of athletics there. That said, from a marketing perspective, I don't see much advantage of being in a D3 state school conference like the WIAC over being in state/private mixed D2 conference like the NSIC.
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Very true on the marketing side of things. I just don't know why St. Thomas doesn't go whole-hog up the ladder. It's nice to be in the D3 playoffs with regularity, but they have upped their game in a lot of areas and it's almost like they are slumming by staying in the MIAC. They are sitting at over 6,000 undergrads now and by comparison, Creighton is 8,600. Creighton didn't have football for a number of years but have started the program again. I don't know if St. Thomas wants to go all the up to D1, but D2 would be a pretty easy jump.
 

50PoundHead said:
Very true on the marketing side of things. I just don't know why St. Thomas doesn't go whole-hog up the ladder. It's nice to be in the D3 playoffs with regularity, but they have upped their game in a lot of areas and it's almost like they are slumming by staying in the MIAC. They are sitting at over 6,000 undergrads now and by comparison, Creighton is 8,600. Creighton didn't have football for a number of years but have started the program again. I don't know if St. Thomas wants to go all the up to D1, but D2 would be a pretty easy jump.
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St. Thomas has 9,900 total students including grad students compared to Creighton's 8,600 (yeah, grad students need to be counted for institutional size) and it's also ranked higher. UST seems like a classic FCS type school that happens to be participating in D3. It will be interesting to track them the next couple of years.
 








MennoSota said:
West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
Won't happen. The WIAC is all the public Universities. The only sport with a non-public is hockey mainly because not all schools carry hockey.
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WIAC commissioner has said they’re very open to having UST join. Could create a DIII juggernaut and perhaps precipitate a move by a couple other upper tier MIAC schools. Question is, would UST settle for this?




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per Shooter:

It’s likely the University of St. Thomas is ultimately headed for Division I athletics. That will take some required time in Division II, but the Tommies have some extremely deep-pocketed alumni willing to do what it takes.

The uncertainty of the Tommies’ future has to be a recruiting concern.

St. Thomas’ expulsion from the MIAC has become a national story. Now, the buzz at St. John’s is that some MIAC athletics directors have expressed concern that the Johnnies have 680 student-athletes among their 11 sports, and there’s fear that might be too many to remain in the conference.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/...wner-jim-pohlad-excited-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

It’s likely the University of St. Thomas is ultimately headed for Division I athletics. That will take some required time in Division II, but the Tommies have some extremely deep-pocketed alumni willing to do what it takes.

The uncertainty of the Tommies’ future has to be a recruiting concern.

St. Thomas’ expulsion from the MIAC has become a national story. Now, the buzz at St. John’s is that some MIAC athletics directors have expressed concern that the Johnnies have 680 student-athletes among their 11 sports, and there’s fear that might be too many to remain in the conference.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/...wner-jim-pohlad-excited-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Go Gophers!!
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St Johns should ditch the MIAC and go with St Thomas
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

It’s likely the University of St. Thomas is ultimately headed for Division I athletics. That will take some required time in Division II, but the Tommies have some extremely deep-pocketed alumni willing to do what it takes.

The uncertainty of the Tommies’ future has to be a recruiting concern.

St. Thomas’ expulsion from the MIAC has become a national story. Now, the buzz at St. John’s is that some MIAC athletics directors have expressed concern that the Johnnies have 680 student-athletes among their 11 sports, and there’s fear that might be too many to remain in the conference.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/...wner-jim-pohlad-excited-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Go Gophers!!
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Shooter needs to get on the Gopherhole. There are no ramifications for St. John's. All is well.
 


If there was one thread that I wish would fall way to the bottom and never appear again it is this one.
 


Posted this several weeks ago in the BBall forum, but St Thomas is heading for at least the MVC and maybe the Atlantic 10 or Big East.

St Thomas is no longer a liberal arts school with allegiance to the MIAC. Think they asked to get kicked out so that would satisfy the fans that want to stay DIII.

St Thomas looks like Creighton or Loyola Chicago or Marquette. It’s not Macalester or St Olaf but a STEM, law and business school now and needs to upgrade its standing in those areas nationally.

Hockey can go DI immediately and the other sports will follow by eight years per NCAA rules.

Ideally, an 6000 seat arena should be built near Allianz Field for hockey and basketball. Maybe their rink at Mendota Heights can be expanded, but that’s not a central area, while Allianz is on the metro line.

See St Thomas joining the NCHC with Arizona St. It might take a few years but Arizona St is only now building its on campus arena.

St Thomas will spend eight years in the NSIC DII per rules and then seek DI. The Summit League will offer them, but the MVC offers them after they finish the transition, as the MVC is too stuck up to offer a DII school. The Big East would be the real prize as St Louis U has a major endowment and would like another school out west, Dayton is too close to Xavier so Dayton doesn’t meet the Big East specs. The Twin Cities offers a huge TV market that the Big East would want.

Could foresee some UST games at XCel Center.

The MIAC has been so secretive as they want to do St Thomas a favor. The Gophers will have some local competition.

Private schools in the north most often offer non scholarship DI, like Drake, Valpo, Georgetown etc, so that should not be an issue for the Gophers.
 
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This is not true. UST wants to stay d3. Coaches and admin don’t want to move up because then they would have to cut a lot of sports and deal with athletic scholarships. Would cost the school a lot of money. Personally want to see UST move up but MIAC doing this to give us a favor is a load of crap. Definitely a chance they go d1 cause I think if they go to the NSIC then ultimate plan would be d1. I think UST has these options...no inside info
WIAC..probs top choice
Northern Sun
Independent (short term move but unlikely)
Maybe another d3 conference but don’t think any others are a good fit
 

Siouxfan said:
Posted this several weeks ago in the BBall forum, but St Thomas is heading for at least the MVC and maybe the Atlantic 10 or Big East.

St Thomas is no longer a liberal arts school with allegiance to the MIAC. Think they asked to get kicked out so that would satisfy the fans that want to stay DIII.

St Thomas looks like Creighton or Loyola Chicago or Marquette. It’s not Macalester or St Olaf but a STEM, law and business school now and needs to upgrade its standing in those areas nationally.

Hockey can go DI immediately and the other sports will follow by eight years per NCAA rules.

Ideally, an 6000 seat arena should be built near Allianz Field for hockey and basketball. Maybe their rink at Mendota Heights can be expanded, but that’s not a central area, while Allianz is on the metro line.

See St Thomas joining the NCHC with Arizona St. It might take a few years but Arizona St is only now building its on campus arena.

St Thomas will spend eight years in the NSIC DII per rules and then seek DI. The Summit League will offer them, but the MVC offers them after they finish the transition, as the MVC is too stuck up to offer a DII school. The Big East would be the real prize as St Louis U has a major endowment and would like another school out west, Dayton is too close to Xavier so Dayton doesn’t meet the Big East specs. The Twin Cities offers a huge TV market that the Big East would want.

Could foresee some UST games at XCel Center.

The MIAC has been so secretive as they want to do St Thomas a favor. The Gophers will have some local competition.

Private schools in the north most often offer non scholarship DI, like Drake, Valpo, Georgetown etc, so that should not be an issue for the Gophers.
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Considering the beating the MIAC is taking locally and nationally, I am skeptical they would do this "favor" for St. Thomas, take all the flack over and receive absolutely nothing in exchange.
 

St. Thomas kicked all crap out of MIAC teams in sports for decades now and never moved up. Now St. Thomas is kicking all crap out MIAC schools in the public relations department. There will be no favors happening here.
 

Siouxfan said:
Posted this several weeks ago in the BBall forum, but St Thomas is heading for at least the MVC and maybe the Atlantic 10 or Big East.

St Thomas is no longer a liberal arts school with allegiance to the MIAC. Think they asked to get kicked out so that would satisfy the fans that want to stay DIII.

St Thomas looks like Creighton or Loyola Chicago or Marquette. It’s not Macalester or St Olaf but a STEM, law and business school now and needs to upgrade its standing in those areas nationally.

Hockey can go DI immediately and the other sports will follow by eight years per NCAA rules.

Ideally, an 6000 seat arena should be built near Allianz Field for hockey and basketball. Maybe their rink at Mendota Heights can be expanded, but that’s not a central area, while Allianz is on the metro line.

See St Thomas joining the NCHC with Arizona St. It might take a few years but Arizona St is only now building its on campus arena.

St Thomas will spend eight years in the NSIC DII per rules and then seek DI. The Summit League will offer them, but the MVC offers them after they finish the transition, as the MVC is too stuck up to offer a DII school. The Big East would be the real prize as St Louis U has a major endowment and would like another school out west, Dayton is too close to Xavier so Dayton doesn’t meet the Big East specs. The Twin Cities offers a huge TV market that the Big East would want.

Could foresee some UST games at XCel Center.

The MIAC has been so secretive as they want to do St Thomas a favor. The Gophers will have some local competition.

Private schools in the north most often offer non scholarship DI, like Drake, Valpo, Georgetown etc, so that should not be an issue for the Gophers.
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You are insane. Lay off the dope.
 

Goph33 said:
This is not true. UST wants to stay d3. Coaches and admin don’t want to move up because then they would have to cut a lot of sports and deal with athletic scholarships. Would cost the school a lot of money. Personally want to see UST move up but MIAC doing this to give us a favor is a load of crap. Definitely a chance they go d1 cause I think if they go to the NSIC then ultimate plan would be d1. I think UST has these options...no inside info
WIAC..probs top choice
Northern Sun
Independent (short term move but unlikely)
Maybe another d3 conference but don’t think any others are a good fit
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Providence has less than 40% of UST’s endowment and enrollment, but they have done fine in basketball and hockey, even exceeding the Gophers a lot.

When posters here say I’m a dopehead, it just proves how small minded they are.

Most major cities have multiple schools that are DI. Minnesota has but one for the whole state.
 

Siouxfan said:
Providence has less than 40% of UST’s endowment and enrollment, but they have done fine in basketball and hockey, even exceeding the Gophers a lot.

When posters here say I’m a dopehead, it just proves how small minded they are.

Most major cities have multiple schools that are DI. Minnesota has but one for the whole state.
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I didn’t call you a dope head and I’m not close minded. I think you brought up a lot of great points. Yes MN should be able to have more than 1 d1 considering Iowa has 4. Yes, st Thomas has a big enough enrollment for probs mid major d1. However, MIAC schools didn’t kick St Thomas out as a favor as they already don’t like them and they risked and did get them terrible media publicity. Also UST was happy d3. UST didn’t want to leave the MIAC because if they did they’d need to cut several sports. Also rumored Caruso (fb coach)doesn’t really want to deal with athletic scholarships and it would cost the school a lot of money considering the expensive tuition...UST definitely could afford it though.
 

Siouxfan said:
Posted this several weeks ago in the BBall forum, but St Thomas is heading for at least the MVC and maybe the Atlantic 10 or Big East.

St Thomas is no longer a liberal arts school with allegiance to the MIAC. Think they asked to get kicked out so that would satisfy the fans that want to stay DIII.

St Thomas looks like Creighton or Loyola Chicago or Marquette. It’s not Macalester or St Olaf but a STEM, law and business school now and needs to upgrade its standing in those areas nationally.

Hockey can go DI immediately and the other sports will follow by eight years per NCAA rules.

Ideally, an 6000 seat arena should be built near Allianz Field for hockey and basketball. Maybe their rink at Mendota Heights can be expanded, but that’s not a central area, while Allianz is on the metro line.

See St Thomas joining the NCHC with Arizona St. It might take a few years but Arizona St is only now building its on campus arena.

St Thomas will spend eight years in the NSIC DII per rules and then seek DI. The Summit League will offer them, but the MVC offers them after they finish the transition, as the MVC is too stuck up to offer a DII school. The Big East would be the real prize as St Louis U has a major endowment and would like another school out west, Dayton is too close to Xavier so Dayton doesn’t meet the Big East specs. The Twin Cities offers a huge TV market that the Big East would want.

Could foresee some UST games at XCel Center.

The MIAC has been so secretive as they want to do St Thomas a favor. The Gophers will have some local competition.

Private schools in the north most often offer non scholarship DI, like Drake, Valpo, Georgetown etc, so that should not be an issue for the Gophers.
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Nope.
 

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