STrib: MIAC rivals plot ouster of St. Thomas

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short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW, when I was a student at Augsburg, the schools in the Twin Cities had this reciprocity agreement, so you could take classes at other schools. I took a journalism class at St. Thomas, and one of the guest speakers they brought in was......Joe Soucheray.
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I bet he did it to complete a community service obligation. Probably his sentence for yelling at a kid to cut his hair or to turn down his car radio.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW, when I was a student at Augsburg, the schools in the Twin Cities had this reciprocity agreement, so you could take classes at other schools. I took a journalism class at St. Thomas, and one of the guest speakers they brought in was......Joe Soucheray.
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When I was at Augsburg the program you are talking about was called ACTC. I took a film class at Macalester but no guest speakers. Ha.
 

per Shooter:

There’s some buzz now that the University of St. Thomas, because it was squeezed out of the Division III MIAC, may seek an exemption to move to Division I sooner than the required 12 years. And word is if the Tommies can get to Division I, they might emphasize men’s basketball over football, hoping to build a program comparable to those of other Catholic programs such as Creighton, Marquette, Villanova and Xavier.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/06/...-baldelli-has-just-the-right-touch-for-twins/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

There’s some buzz now that the University of St. Thomas, because it was squeezed out of the Division III MIAC, may seek an exemption to move to Division I sooner than the required 12 years. And word is if the Tommies can get to Division I, they might emphasize men’s basketball over football, hoping to build a program comparable to those of other Catholic programs such as Creighton, Marquette, Villanova and Xavier.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/06/...-baldelli-has-just-the-right-touch-for-twins/

Go Gophers!!
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Yeah just become like Creighton, Marquette, Villanova and Xavier.... like picking up groceries...
 

Have said St Thomas always wanted the top end of DI, so they got the MIAC Presidents to lie for them to get their fans behind a move up.

The NCAA will make them spend time in DII, but the Northern Sun should soon have an opening when Augustana leaves for DI.

When UST has the time requirements for DI, the Summit League or the Horizon League will take them. The MVC doesn’t take fresh DII moveups, so they would have to wait five more years, but they’d have to win and draw like Creighton to get a Big East bid.
 


Can’t see ST ramping up from a 2k gym with 1k attendance to the Big East in any short time. Would think decades, if ever. There are a lot of Catholic schools in the Central and Eastern timezones that have been DI for decades, biding their time, hoping to move up. Can’t see them getting ahead of St Louis, Dayton, etc. Even schools like Loyola Chicago. Their one main, huge advantage is market.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Can’t see ST ramping up from a 2k gym with 1k attendance to the Big East in any short time. Would think decades, if ever. There are a lot of Catholic schools in the Central and Eastern timezones that have been DI for decades, biding their time, hoping to move up. Can’t see them getting ahead of St Louis, Dayton, etc. Even schools like Loyola Chicago. Their one main, huge advantage is market.
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Most of the Big East and even MVC doesn’t have their own on campus arena but use massive municipal facilities.
UST will start using the XCel center for big games and eventually use it for all hom games.

The MVC wants UST in because of the large media market, which would enlarge their tv contract. The Big East would say yes once they have dance tournament wins and add UST and St Louis.
 
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Siouxfan said:
Have said St Thomas always wanted the top end of DI, so they got the MIAC Presidents to lie for them to get their fans behind a move up.

The NCAA will make them spend time in DII, but the Northern Sun should soon have an opening when Augustana leaves for DI.

When UST has the time requirements for DI, the Summit League or the Horizon League will take them. The MVC doesn’t take fresh DII moveups, so they would have to wait five more years, but they’d have to win and draw like Creighton to get a Big East bid.
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I would agree but St. Thomas being located in a top 13 television market may decide to change their minds.
 

4four4 said:
I would agree but St. Thomas being located in a top 13 television market may decide to change their minds.
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Don’t think that would change the NCAA’s mind. Oklahoma City U used to be a DI school and dropped to lower levels. It decided it wanted to return, but the NCAA said it had to be DII for several years, so it decided not to move.

If UST had special circumstances where it used to be DI or if the MVC needed another school, they might have a better case.

Last decade, a lower level school could move directly to DI. An example is Utah Valley used to be a JC and never even moved to an NCAA lower division but moved directly to DI. The rules changed last decade to strengthen DII, which has lost many schools in the past 40 years.

A DIII to DI move was possible last decade, but UST missed that wide open window. The Big East took Creighton and Butler after that time. UST would probably add more to ratings than Creighton.
 
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UST probably won’t see much of an increase in moving to DII. They give so much financial aid at the DIII level and much of that money will be given as actual athletic scholarships. Maybe coaching salaries will go up, but not much. They will have to address facilities, especially hockey, but they can rent Allianz or XCel.

They should drop some non revenue sports like swimming and add M/W lacrosse. Football would be too expensive for FBS. They would probably take the non scholarship option at DI, like Georgetown, Butler, Drake, Valpo, etc.
 
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Siouxfan said:
UST probably won’t see much of an increase in moving to DII. They give so much financial aid at the DIII level and much of that money will be given as actual athletic scholarships. Maybe coaching salaries will go up, but not much. They will have to address facilities, especially hockey, but they can rent Allianz or XCel.

They should drop some non revenue sports like swimming and add M/W lacrosse. Football would be too expensive for FBS. They would probably take the non scholarship option at DI, like Georgetown, Butler, Drake, Valpo, etc.
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Very few schools out of all the total higher education institutions sponsoring varsity athletics make a significant dollar profit from direct athletic or closely related revenues.

The goals for a school like ST in moving DI are more along the lines of continued brand growth, perhaps even national brand growth (a Minneapolis kid has probably heard of Villanova, but a Philly kid has never heard of ST in StPaul), increased donations to both athletic and overall improvements (new facilities), increased enrollment, and overall step change in prestige.

I bet the total athletic profits hat NDSU has realized since 2008 really aren’t much compared to the yearly operating budget. But the amount of building and overall improvements (also around the campus too), growth in enrollment, and guessing growth in donations too, is incredible. And I doubt it would be a tenth of what it was if they had stayed at the level of St Cloud and Mankato.
 
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Siouxfan said:
Most of the Big East and even MVC doesn’t have their own on campus arena but use massive municipal facilities.
UST will start using the XCel center for big games and eventually use it for all hom games.

The MVC wants UST in because of the large media market, which would enlarge their tv contract. The Big East would say yes once they have dance tournament wins and add UST and St Louis.
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Siouxfan said:
Don’t think that would change the NCAA’s mind. Oklahoma City U used to be a DI school and dropped to lower levels. It decided it wanted to return, but the NCAA said it had to be DII for several years, so it decided not to move.

If UST had special circumstances where it used to be DI or if the MVC needed another school, they might have a better case.

Last decade, a lower level school could move directly to DI. An example is Utah Valley used to be a JC and never even moved to an NCAA lower division but moved directly to DI. The rules changed last decade to strengthen DII, which has lost many schools in the past 40 years.

A DIII to DI move was possible last decade, but UST missed that wide open window. The Big East took Creighton and Butler after that time. UST would probably add more to ratings than Creighton.
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Siouxfan said:
UST probably won’t see much of an increase in moving to DII. They give so much financial aid at the DIII level and much of that money will be given as actual athletic scholarships. Maybe coaching salaries will go up, but not much. They will have to address facilities, especially hockey, but they can rent Allianz or XCel.

They should drop some non revenue sports like swimming and add M/W lacrosse. Football would be too expensive for FBS. They would probably take the non scholarship option at DI, like Georgetown, Butler, Drake, Valpo, etc.
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Say "no" to drugs.
 

Siouxfan said:
The entire state of Minnesota is doped up because their too afraid to compete.


Rhode Island has four DI schools (URI, Brown, Providence, and Bryant) and under 1.1 million people.

Minnesota has one DI school with five times the population.

UST vastly exceeds Providence, which has championships in several sports, in academics, enrollment and endowment.

One state seems to be full of pussies.
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Say “no” to drugs.
 




Word said:
I am sure Providence only draws from Rhode island... Great example.... Never mind it is part of the megalopolis. I am guessing you've never been to the east coast.

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Well look to the neighboring state to the east then. Marquette (along with UW-Milwaukee and UW-Green Bay) have not seem to hurt the Badgers in any way.

Nor has Minnesota being the only DI program in the state substantially helped them. If there is any fall-off for the Gophers how will we even notice?
 
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Ope3 said:
Well look to the neighboring state to the east then. Marquette (along with UW-Milwaukee and UW-Green Bay) have not seem to hurt the Badgers in any way.

Nor has Minnesota being the only DI program in the state substantially helped them. If there is any fall-off for the Gophers how will we even notice?
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I wasn't arguing that. Just that Providence was a horrible example. I really don't care what UST does. Nor do most of my friends that went to UST.

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Word said:
I wasn't arguing that. Just that Providence was a horrible example. I really don't care what UST does. Nor do most of my friends that went to UST.

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Hey, I went to NDSU and UST and don’t care about either of them when it comes to sports!


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alchemy2u said:
Hey, I went to NDSU and UST and don’t care about either of them when it comes to sports!


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Smart choice!

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Siouxfan said:
The entire state of Minnesota is doped up because their too afraid to compete.


Rhode Island has four DI schools (URI, Brown, Providence, and Bryant) and under 1.1 million people.

Minnesota has one DI school with five times the population.

UST vastly exceeds Providence, which has championships in several sports, in academics, enrollment and endowment.

One state seems to be full of pussies.
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North Dakota
 

per Shooter:

Now it looks like St. Thomas, ousted by the MIAC, will not appeal for an exemption to expedite entry to Division I, and that the university probably will end up in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, which wants the Tommies. That option has made the most sense since St. Thomas was booted out of the MIAC in May and will make for a stronger WIAC.

By the way, a logical place for St. Thomas would have been the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for its men’s and women’s programs had the university decided to go to Division I.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/06/charley-walters-future-looks-bright-for-minnesotas-3m-open/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

Now it looks like St. Thomas, ousted by the MIAC, will not appeal for an exemption to expedite entry to Division I, and that the university probably will end up in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, which wants the Tommies. That option has made the most sense since St. Thomas was booted out of the MIAC in May and will make for a stronger WIAC.

By the way, a logical place for St. Thomas would have been the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for its men’s and women’s programs had the university decided to go to Division I.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/06/charley-walters-future-looks-bright-for-minnesotas-3m-open/

Go Gophers!!
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I wonder what the story was with St. Thomas administration wise was.

Like they had to know there was grumbling, they clearly were working heavily on advancing their athletic program.... wouldn't they have had a plan on what to do?
 


FredCoxRocks said:
Yay, this thread is back.
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duty_calls.png
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

Now it looks like St. Thomas, ousted by the MIAC, will not appeal for an exemption to expedite entry to Division I, and that the university probably will end up in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, which wants the Tommies. That option has made the most sense since St. Thomas was booted out of the MIAC in May and will make for a stronger WIAC.

By the way, a logical place for St. Thomas would have been the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for its men’s and women’s programs had the university decided to go to Division I.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/06/charley-walters-future-looks-bright-for-minnesotas-3m-open/

Go Gophers!!
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Good.
 

This is exactly what I predicted, about 75,000 posts earlier in this thread. St. Thomas is a good fit for the WIAC. The WIAC on the other hand isn't a great fit for D3 but that is a whole different story and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 


BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

Now it looks like St. Thomas, ousted by the MIAC, will not appeal for an exemption to expedite entry to Division I, and that the university probably will end up in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, which wants the Tommies. That option has made the most sense since St. Thomas was booted out of the MIAC in May and will make for a stronger WIAC.

By the way, a logical place for St. Thomas would have been the Western Collegiate Hockey Association for its men’s and women’s programs had the university decided to go to Division I.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/06/charley-walters-future-looks-bright-for-minnesotas-3m-open/

Go Gophers!!
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I heard this same rumor...I wonder if shooter and I heard it from the same guy
 


per Shooter:

A little birdie says St. Thomas, ousted by the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Association, could end up in the Division I Pioneer League for football and the Division I Summit League for its other sports. The university recently hired two assistant athletics directors.

Speaking of MIAC football, the only school interested in playing St. John’s in a nonconference game in 2020 is national Division III power Mary Hardin-Baylor (Texas) in a home-and-home series, but travel expenses would be $50,000.

Carleton College has signed a multiyear athletics apparel deal with Under Armour for its 20 varsity teams.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/07/...re-wins-is-part-of-the-deal-for-twins-pohlad/

Go Gophers!!
 

Pioneer/Summit would be correct, in my opinion.

They can fund and run the football program exactly as it is now. That league is a bunch of schools that formerly were allowed to be DI athletic depts but play football in DIII. When they won too much in that division, DIII kicked them out and they were forced into DI-AA (now FCS). But since there are no scholarship minimums in that sub-division, they all banded together, created the Pioneer League (which forbids any athletic aid for football), and continue to run their programs as if they were still in DIII.

Their challenge then will be to invest in bball (mainly) and other Summit League sports, and be competitive. Will bring Dakota schools into the Twin Cities multiple times per year in multiple sports, where LOTS of alumni live. I think it is the correct decision ... IF it comes to pass.
 

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