STrib: Beer, maybe wine, foreseen at TCF Bank Stadium

[Gopher Warrior]

UPDATE: See post #76 down below, which is an update after the Board of Regents meeting.

Why don't they put the beer garden in the "hidden" 2nd concourse that's above the concession stands? I think that it's only there in case they add a 3rd deck, so why not use it for the beer garden? It's really big, it has controlled entrances and exits, you can't see it from the seating sections, and it would have a cool view of the surrounding area through the giant windows. Throw a few big screens up there so you can "watch" the game, and you have everything you need.

I don't understand why you can take the beer back to your seats. That makes it a beer "stand" not a beer "garden", in my opinion. I also don't know how they are going to keep from selling to students. Are they going to wall off the students from the other parts of the stadium, because how do you prove someone "is" a student? "You're a student", "No, I'm not", "Oh, ok, that'll be $8.75." Plus, think how pissed the legislature will be when they realize beer availability will be based on an individual's educational status. Are they saying a 45 year old person returning to finish their college degree will be prevented to buy a beer? Talk about "class warfare". And will a 21 year old Drunk Skunk student from Madison sitting in the visitors section be served beer, while a 21 year old U student be denied? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

If the proposed implementation plan is accepted and you hear a line of "we're not selling to students", it's simply false. They may restrict taking a beer back into the student section, but there's no way to keep a student that is of age from buying a beer under the proposed plan.

Ultimately what it looks like is Kaler simply has a different view than Bruininks did. They could have sold to only one-third of the general public for the past two years, but didn't want to, citing in part concerns about student drinking.

Bruininks is quoted as having said, "I will not support in my tenure any proposal that provides serious service of alcohol in the general seating areas of the stadium." Clearly Kaler has different thoughts. It would appear this proposed change at TCF Bank stadium has a lot more to do with different views between Bruininks and Kaler than it does to the recent changes adopted by the State.

Now we'll see if all of the board members happily accept the recommendation of Kaler. The full board has an hour and a half scheduled to get through a ton of material. Curious to see any discussion surrounding this or whether it's just a quick rubber stamp. Probably important to note that there is a resolution up for approval tomorrow, but the implementation plan is what contains the west end beer garden / take it back to your seat provisions... resolution (which does not include the specific plan) could get approved tomorrow, but the specifics may still be up for discussion. Any one have insight? Should know a bit more tomorrow afternoon.

 

[GoAUpher]

Why don't they put the beer garden in the "hidden" 2nd concourse that's above the concession stands? I think that it's only there in case they add a 3rd deck, so why not use it for the beer garden? It's really big, it has controlled entrances and exits, you can't see it from the seating sections, and it would have a cool view of the surrounding area through the giant windows. Throw a few big screens up there so you can "watch" the game, and you have everything you need.

To rehash what I put in 2 earlier posts, here are some reasons I can think of:
- They may not be allowed to expand the concourse size for some reason or another. Just because the space is there doesn't mean they are automatically allowed to use it for purposes like a beer garden. I don't have specific ideas outside of safety regulation type stuff (of which I know little) but it's worth keeping in mind.
- Putting the garden up there means that the upper deck sections near the garden would face increased foot traffic in their aisles. This is a symptom of having access to the 2nd deck come primarily via the main concourse. Fans in those sections aren't going to appreciate people rolling through on those stairs all the time just to go to and from the beer garden.
- It would likely increase traffic on the elevators which could negatively impact those who rely on them for access.

I don't understand why you can take the beer back to your seats. That makes it a beer "stand" not a beer "garden", in my opinion.

It's likely a function of the U realizing that they couldn't build a beer garden large enough to handle demand without it being too obtrusive on the plaza.

I also don't know how they are going to keep from selling to students. Are they going to wall off the students from the other parts of the stadium, because how do you prove someone "is" a student? "You're a student", "No, I'm not", "Oh, ok, that'll be $8.75." Plus, think how pissed the legislature will be when they realize beer availability will be based on an individual's educational status. Are they saying a 45 year old person returning to finish their college degree will be prevented to buy a beer? Talk about "class warfare". And will a 21 year old Drunk Skunk student from Madison sitting in the visitors section be served beer, while a 21 year old U student be denied? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

Students can buy it if they are 21.

 

[GoAUpher]

They could have sold to only one-third of the general public for the past two years, but didn't want to, citing in part concerns about student drinking. .

This was always a nonsense provision anyhow. Any normal sales option that allows 1/3 of GA would also allow all of GA to get beer if the wanted it. The only semi-logical solution I can think of offhand which would limit to 1/3 of GA would be to sell only via beer vendors and have those venders only visit 1/3 of the GA sections. Anything else (showing a ticket at a concession stand/beer garden) would just be so ridiculous as to prompt ridicule/a PR mess.

Bruininks is quoted as having said, "I will not support in my tenure any proposal that provides serious service of alcohol in the general seating areas of the stadium." Clearly Kaler has different thoughts. It would appear this proposed change at TCF Bank stadium has a lot more to do with different views between Bruininks and Kaler than it does to the recent changes adopted by the State.

I agree that Kaler has a different take, but if that were the only thing needed then they would have just taken the previous offer. I think it did matter to the U to have the bill written in a way that allows for greater control if the U wants it. The fact that they are voluntarily loosening some of that control is simply another choice and the option for more control remains if they want it. The "1/3" provision didn't explicitly give them as much control.

Now we'll see if all of the board members happily accept the recommendation of Kaler. The full board has an hour and a half scheduled to get through a ton of material. Curious to see any discussion surrounding this or whether it's just a quick rubber stamp.

Agreed, it will be interesting. I've always assumed that a rubber stamp was likely since I didn't see the U making so many public statements around the time of the legislative vote without having a whip count that suggested easy passage by the BoR. But I also don't know enough about internal BoR politics to know if this is a reasonable assumption.

 

[highwayman]

I'll stick to what I was told, but it shows you how fast this has evolved, even for the Regents. I would guess that they will make it very inconvenient to start out. Why? To see what the real market is, or create a "lack" of market. The goal has always been to sell in the premium seating only. They will not worry about sales in the general seating--because they don't want it.

Let's talk about football next thread.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

GoAUpher - I agree with you on the one-third deal being bizarre... and ambiguous. I think you're probably also right on tomorrow being a rubber stamp deal..

I really have paid slightly more than zero attention to this issue over the years until today, but the timeline is interesting.

Just thinking here.. but, Bruininks seemed clear that sales to the general public weren't going to happen while he was President. Kaler didn't come in until July 2011. It would have been difficult for him to step in and say, 'hey.. you know that no beer crap? No more! We're letting the suds flow starting in a few months!"

Although the U probably could have done what's being proposed for 2012 anytime over the past couple of years, the fact that the legislature "did something" (even though it may have actually expanded the requirements to serve the general public) and then the U acted gives the appearance to most that now the U can finally get back to what they've always wanted to do - sell in the premium sections.

Probably many people will see this as the politicians fixing a stupid law and the U no longer being a victim of it... but seems like what we've really got is the U has went from a school with a President who was against the idea of serving to the general public to a President who isn't against the idea, and thus they're hopping on the alcohol-for-all route. That makes it more understandable to me at least: new guy in charge, that's why there is a change. Fair take?

Jason DeRusha is going to speak on this topic tonight on WCCO news... and give a number (is it really something like only two schools?!?!) of schools that serve the general public on campus during games. I think I know of one, but that's it.

 

[FarmGopher]

To rehash what I put in 2 earlier posts, here are some reasons I can think of:
- They may not be allowed to expand the concourse size for some reason or another. Just because the space is there doesn't mean they are automatically allowed to use it for purposes like a beer garden. I don't have specific ideas outside of safety regulation type stuff (of which I know little) but it's worth keeping in mind.
- Putting the garden up there means that the upper deck sections near the garden would face increased foot traffic in their aisles. This is a symptom of having access to the 2nd deck come primarily via the main concourse. Fans in those sections aren't going to appreciate people rolling through on those stairs all the time just to go to and from the beer garden.
- It would likely increase traffic on the elevators which could negatively impact those who rely on them for access.

I didn't mean the outdoor concourse on the top of the stadium. I was talking about the one that you can't get to right now, that is inside, on top of the concessions/bathrooms and behind the big windows you can see on outside of the stadium on the visitors side. I believe there is a empty concourse there that is ready to be used in the future, if a 3rd deck of seats is added. Using that area would not increase traffic to the 2nd deck, but they would probably need to build some stairs to get there from the main and outside concourses more easily.

 

[GoAUpher]

I didn't mean the outdoor concourse on the top of the stadium. I was talking about the one that you can't get to right now, that is inside, on top of the concessions/bathrooms and behind the big windows you can see on outside of the stadium on the visitors side. I believe there is a empty concourse there that is ready to be used in the future, if a 3rd deck of seats is added. Using that area would not increase traffic to the 2nd deck, but they would probably need to build some stairs to get there from the main and outside concourses more easily.

Ah, got it. I don't recall if that is full concourse or what but I see what you're saying now.

 

[GoAUpher]

Probably many people will see this as the politicians fixing a stupid law and the U no longer being a victim of it... but seems like what we've really got is the U has went from a school with a President who was against the idea of serving to the general public to a President who isn't against the idea, and thus they're hopping on the alcohol-for-all route. That makes it more understandable to me at least: new guy in charge, that's why there is a change. Fair take?

Sounds logical to me.

Jason DeRusha is going to speak on this topic tonight on WCCO news... and give a number (is it really something like only two schools?!?!) of schools that serve the general public on campus during games. I think I know of one, but that's it.

It will be interesting in how they qualify that list. There are more than 2 schools in D1 that serve beer in GA at on campus stadiums, but I think that many of them are non-BCS. Off the top of my head 2 BCS schools that serve are Syracuse and West Virginia (who, interestingly enough, serves hard liquor as part of their options).

 

[saintpaulguy]

As a person who has donation seats on the aisle on the visitor side, I hope the solution isn't to put the beer garden on the top of that section. Too much game blocking traffic. That space was not designed to have that much uphill traffic.

Open the taps at every stand outside the student section, and stop the clutter.

 

[oak_street1981]

Farm Gopher was correct, in that there is a large interior concourse available inside the large windows facing the North tailgate lots.

This area is the size of the DQ Club Room and would be a great place for a Pub area with giant TV screens.

When you walk up the large gate A stairs near Mariucci you can see the large window above you to the front and left. This is a very large unfinished interior area that could have Biffs and ice tubs added in a hurry.

This area is directly below the fenced off roof area behind the upper visitor side deck.

For the short term, this is is where the "common man's" club room could easily be and should be.

 

[station19]

GoAUpher -Jason DeRusha is going to speak on this topic tonight on WCCO news... and give a number (is it really something like only two schools?!?!) of schools that serve the general public on campus during games. I think I know of one, but that's it.

DeRusha stated there were 21 of 120 Division 1 schools that served alcohol to all fans at games. 11 of those were on campus stadiums.

All of the people(in the segment) were surprised there were that few. I think most GHers are surprised there are that many-I know I was.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/...w-many-colleges-sell-beer-at-sports-stadiums/

 

[husker70]

Equally important as when and where is what beer are the planning to serve? Wine list?

 

[GoAUpher]

Equally important as when and where is what beer are the planning to serve? Wine list?

As I recall, the bill required that at least one MN beer be served. So hopefully some Surly or another quality local brew makes it on tap.

 

[GoAUpher]

Also, re: "hidden concourse"...I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that some of that space is actually a set of ramps for moving fans. Here's a picture of one of those ramps. The only thing is that I don't know if this set is by Gate A or some other location. (Link to Ballpark Magic post that included this photo: http://www.ballparkmagic.com/TCFBSNutsBolts.html)

Maybe these are already in use today? I dunno, my seats are right be Gate E so we always exit via those steps.

 

[mplsbadger]

Also, re: "hidden concourse"...I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that some of that space is actually a set of ramps for moving fans. Here's a picture of one of those ramps. The only thing is that I don't know if this set is by Gate A or some other location. (Link to Ballpark Magic post that included this photo: http://www.ballparkmagic.com/TCFBSNutsBolts.html)

Maybe these are already in use today? I dunno, my seats are right be Gate E so we always exit via those steps.

I don't think these are for moving fans. I think they are for driving forklifts with buckets of nacho cheese and soda to the existing concession stands.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I made it through the Board of Regents discussion on beer and wine at TCF Bank stadium. Some information and comments are below... what do you think?

The beer will be flowing. If something really bad happens, they could shut it down. But more likely I think the sale locations will expand in the general areas from the two that they'll start off with to all over the place.

Several Regents were no less than excited about introducing alcohol sales to TCF Bank stadium. Some key information:

- They will re-evaluate after every game. I think the stage is set for them to expand sales to concession areas throughout the stadium. Wouldn't be surprised to see that be the case in the near future.

- Estimating 5,000 to 7,000 customers per game. I find this to be ludicrous.

- There will be two points of sale to begin - one being at the West end of the plaza, the other technically outside of the stadium at Gate A, but in a fenced in area where only ticket holders can access. You will not be able to see the field from this area, but can from the West end.

- You can buy up to two beverages at a time (beer and wine will be sold). You can take these wherever you want.

- There was an acknowledgement that there are no rules that the U has against students buying alcohol whatsoever (other than the 21 and up law). "When we use 'students' we didn't really mean students, we just mean people who are not of legal age to drink." (paraphrase)

- Several Regents mentioned that they have come to believe that not allowing everyone to be able to booze it up reeks of elitism. This sets the stage for the U to continue serving everyone should the State get out of the U's hair on this matter. It does raise the question, though, why the Regents are OK with allowing beer and wine service to only those in premium locations of Williams Arena and Mariucci.

- They plan to put little trees in front of the beer vans/tents and the fence so that people outside can't see the booze being sold.. 'out of respect' for the Veterans Memorial and Tribal Nations plaza.

- One other location was considered - the roof deck on the east end of the stadium. Great sight lines, but cost to make it safe and have room would have been more than they wanted, plus it was near the student section.

- Sales to start one hour before kickoff, and continue through the end of half time.

- Several Regents made a point that the real world has alcohol in it, so by having alcohol sold to everyone at TCF Bank stadium, it prepares the students for the real world. Therefore, this is actually a very good thing and it's common sense. Very happy to be slanging beer to everyone of age in the stadium.

----------------------
How things (values?) change...

...this new legislation leaves us with only two options: to become the only Big Ten campus in the country to sell alcohol throughout its football stadium, or to not sell alcohol at all. Our values do not change, even if our plans must. We have never sold alcohol at student-oriented on campus events in the past, and I do not recommend we start now.

 

[dpodoll68]

Several Regents mentioned that they have come to believe that not allowing everyone to be able to booze it up reeks of elitism.

Asinine.

Several Regents made a point that the real world has alcohol in it, so by having alcohol sold to everyone at TCF Bank stadium, it prepares the students for the real world.

Idiotic. By that logic, the Regents should be promoting murder and rape in the stadium.

 

[GopherLady]

Kare 11 just tweeted this:

@kare11: University of Minnesota regents approve beer sales at TCF Bank Stadium kare11.tv/Nmk5K7

 

[CrocShots]

The debate is done. It's happening.
The chances to voice your displeasure can happen down the line as they reevaluate, for now there isn't anything more to be said.


"Let's get it on. It should be the biggest party in the state. That's the way it ought to be -- I'm not going to apologize for saying that."- Coach Jerry Kill

 

[AO54]

hooray Beer!

 

[station19]

Dr Don just purchased all the remaining tickets for the 2012-2050 seasons.

 

[FireDaveLee]

- They plan to put little trees in front of the beer vans/tents and the fence so that people outside can't see the booze being sold.. 'out of respect' for the Veterans Memorial and Tribal Nations plaza.

"If you cheat on your girlfriend in a different zip code, it never happened!"

 

[GoAUpher]

Thanks for the summary GW!

- They will re-evaluate after every game. I think the stage is set for them to expand sales to concession areas throughout the stadium. Wouldn't be surprised to see that be the case in the near future.

Interested to see if that's how things pan out. As always, my gut is to go with an assumption of the U being overly cautious. But they've already surprised me with the "freely carry" change to the plan so who knows?

- Estimating 5,000 to 7,000 customers per game. I find this to be ludicrous.

I'm assuming you mean that you find it to be ludicrously high? If yes then I'd agree, 5K to 7K patrons seems a bit much.

- There will be two points of sale to begin - one being at the West end of the plaza, the other technically outside of the stadium at Gate A, but in a fenced in area where only ticket holders can access. You will not be able to see the field from this area, but can from the West end.

Makes sense. Keeps it in the area they planned on while distributing the traffic out slightly.

- There was an acknowledgement that there are no rules that the U has against students buying alcohol whatsoever (other than the 21 and up law). "When we use 'students' we didn't really mean students, we just mean people who are not of legal age to drink." (paraphrase)

So odd...all they had to do was use the word underage in front of students.

It does raise the question, though, why the Regents are OK with allowing beer and wine service to only those in premium locations of Williams Arena and Mariucci.

My guess? There is no good place for a non-concession stand POS in either venue. If they expand sales at TCF to concession stands then I'm sure they'd look at it in Williams and Mariucci. Otherwise they're working with a plan that cannot be replicated in either venue.

- They plan to put little trees in front of the beer vans/tents and the fence so that people outside can't see the booze being sold.. 'out of respect' for the Veterans Memorial and Tribal Nations plaza.

Seems pointless, but whatever.

- One other location was considered - the roof deck on the east end of the stadium. Great sight lines, but cost to make it safe and have room would have been more than they wanted, plus it was near the student section.

Well, that answers the question of it it was possible to put on up there (yes) and if safety concerns were a part of it (also yes). Something tells me proximity to the students was the biggest factor though.

- Several Regents made a point that the real world has alcohol in it, so by having alcohol sold to everyone at TCF Bank stadium, it prepares the students for the real world. Therefore, this is actually a very good thing and it's common sense. Very happy to be slanging beer to everyone of age in the stadium.

This also seems silly. But whatev's, more revenue for the dept.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Asinine. Idiotic. By that logic, the Regents should be promoting murder and rape in the stadium.

Nice to see you're keeping this in perspective.

Hey - I'm a recovering alcoholic (3 trips to rehab), so some might think that I would be opposed to this. Well, you would be wrong. There is alcohol in our society, and you can't hide from it or pretend it's not there. I will go in a bar to hear a band, and I attend events where alcohol is being sold. I think the Regents came up with a workable compromise. Yes, there will have to be some enforcement to make sure that Fan A doesn't buy 2 beers, come back to his seat, and hand a beer to Underage Fan B, but you could say that about any sports facility in the country. Bottom line, each fan of legal age will be able to decide for themselves whether to avail themselves of this service.

My gut tells me that a very tiny percentage of fans will abuse the privilege or drink to excess. Most people will drink responsibly. And in the end, the U benefits with additional revenue. I will be toasting Gopher Victories this fall with a Diet Cherry 7-Up; the rest of you, including dpodoll are free to toast using the beverage of your choice. (but no crying over spilled milk)

 

[dpodoll68]

Nice to see you're keeping this in perspective.

Hey - I'm a recovering alcoholic (3 trips to rehab), so some might think that I would be opposed to this. Well, you would be wrong. There is alcohol in our society, and you can't hide from it or pretend it's not there. I will go in a bar to hear a band, and I attend events where alcohol is being sold. I think the Regents came up with a workable compromise. Yes, there will have to be some enforcement to make sure that Fan A doesn't buy 2 beers, come back to his seat, and hand a beer to Underage Fan B, but you could say that about any sports facility in the country. Bottom line, each fan of legal age will be able to decide for themselves whether to avail themselves of this service.

My gut tells me that a very tiny percentage of fans will abuse the privilege or drink to excess. Most people will drink responsibly. And in the end, the U benefits with additional revenue. I will be toasting Gopher Victories this fall with a Diet Cherry 7-Up; the rest of you, including dpodoll are free to toast using the beverage of your choice. (but no crying over spilled milk)

OK, you don't like those examples? What about guns? What about fireworks? These are fully legal products that are all over the place in the real world - should they be around inside the stadium so that the students can "prepare themselves" for the real world? Hell, forget about those - what about hard liquor? Why must beer be served, but not hard liquor? The average 12 oz. can of beer contains roughly the same amount of alcohol as a 1 oz. shot of the average hard liquor. Why must my right to drink beer at an amateur sporting event be protected, but not my right to drink an Irish Car Bomb?

 

[Word]

Why must my right to drink beer at an amateur sporting event be protected, but not my right to drink an Irish Car Bomb?

So you don't get a hangover???

 

[Killjoy]

Nice to see you're keeping this in perspective.

Thanks for the laugh Shorty. I appreciate your effort to try to bring some sanity to this discussion.

 

[station19]

I've been against serving alcohol to the general seating, but more importantly against the state legislature getting their nose into this issue.

The Board of Regents has decided to give this compromise a shot on a two year trial. From all indications this will be monitored very closely, even on a game by game basis. I am sure any adjustments will made as needed.

It's time to drop the debate and support the University's decision.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Is anyone familiar with the discussions that went on with the state legislature in 2009, 2010 and 2012 regarding this issue when they've made changes? Specifically I had thought a (or the) major issue was the concern over "elitism". Now, from a tax code standpoint maybe there isn't even a good reason to give "special treatment" to the premium seat locations unless they reduce the amount of tax deduction available based on the fair value of such special treatments... but, that's another topic.

OK - so the question is - the elitism thing. What did people say about it and what are they saying now? I ask because now the legislature is both allowing, and the U is moving forward with, the "elitism" in various facilities including Williams Arena and Mariucci. Wonder if it's a serve vs sell argument some are using (if it even exists) or the legislature is just changing its tune... trying to reconcile why it's OK to only have beer in premium seats in some venues, but not OK at TCF Bank Stadium. What is/are the guiding principles here?

Can't wait until the state just drops the TCF Bank nonsense and the U is free to only sell and serve in selected areas... do the general admission sales go away? There is at least one Regent who right now would probably say, 'no, keep it available, it's been around for a long time'.

The topic isn't anywhere near done.. if the above doesn't happen, then the next discussion will probably be selling beer in more locations throughout the stadium. It's a worthwhile discussion to be had. Ultimately one person is going to be checking someone's ID and one person is going to be handing a person a beer or two. Whether that happens at only the two locations that are planned to be available to begin this year, or at 15 locations throughout the stadium.. that isn't going to change. If there's something so terrible that you're afraid of such that you feel you must limit the sales points to only two spots, then why sell at all? One could probably argue that the current plan isn't in accordance with the law... definition of "convenient" comes into play.

Anyway, I think there will be beer & wine flowing (sold) throughout the stadium in the next couple of years. Also think the debate(s) is far from over.

 

[GoAUpher]

It's time to drop the debate and support the University's decision.

This.