STrib: Beer, maybe wine, foreseen at TCF Bank Stadium

[Nokomis]

So if you can bring beer back to your seats, why the need for a "garden" rather than just a higher-security concession stand?

 

[Nokomis]

Putting it in the open end gives the illusion that they are doing so out of their care for the students.. i.e., "see, it's clearly far away from the student section.. if those of age want to come and grab a couple of cold ones, they have to walk **all the way** over here to buy it".

You could have the same illusion at a concession stand at the far west end of the concourse.

The planners and architects did an awesome job with the west end opening to campus, downtown, and our state-of-the-art scoreboard. Kids playing football on the plaza, Memorial Wall, Tribal Nations Plaza, the whole bit. It probably sounds petty and some will disagree; I just think a highly visible beer garden in the plaza diminishes all that.

 

[Gold Vision]

You've been fooled if you truly believe what you typed. Anyway, how about the bet? $50 to the charity of the winner's choice?

Just link to the docket instead of pretending you have an inside source.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

So if you can bring beer back to your seats, why the need for a "garden" rather than just a higher-security concession stand?

It's a sham. "Looks better" this way to some, that's all. Perception game.

 

[GoAUpher]

The concourse above the upper deck away side. Not a lot of room, but enough for a controlled garden.

This assumes that the U is allowed to have people walking/standing in those areas. There may be legitimate reasons that the space is controlled where it is. Other factors I can see is increased foot traffic in upper deck aisles (PO'ing all the fans inconvenienced by it) and increased use of the elevators, possibly to the detriment of those who legitimately need them.

Or they could easily convert one of the concession stands into a garden.

Except this doesn't offer them the ability to control the access without creating a huge bottleneck (worse then usual) in that portion of the concourse.

Or the top level of Goldy's Lockerroom.

This would be even tackier than the current plan plus it means that loud (possibly drunk) people will be buying beer right above kids shopping for goldy hats and the like. Not gonna happen. EDIT: Additional note...as currently constructed the access to that upper level Goldy's space would be even worse than access to a concession stand, plaza garden, or upper deck garden. Lines going into that space would obstruct access to a First Aid/Information station, the Gate A elevator access, and portions of the Gate A stairs.

 

[GoAUpher]

It's a sham. "Looks better" this way to some, that's all. Perception game.

That and the fact that the concession stands already create bottlenecks in the regular foot traffic on the concourse. Creating a "secured" concession stand would likely make that problem much worse at whatever portion of the concourse it is placed in.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

You could have the same illusion at a concession stand at the far west end of the concourse.

The planners and architects did an awesome job with the west end opening to campus, downtown, and our state-of-the-art scoreboard. Kids playing football on the plaza, Memorial Wall, Tribal Nations Plaza, the whole bit. It probably sounds petty and some will disagree; I just think a highly visible beer garden in the plaza diminishes all that.

As I mentioned earlier, they'll block out the view of the beer sales taking place for those outside of the stadium. It'll probably be some big ugly tent deal, but you won't see the cash-for-beer transactions if you're outside with the kids walking up to the stadium or hanging out before the game.

 

[Killjoy]

I win if: during the 2012 season, football fans of age can head over to the beer garden tent at TCF Bank Stadium, purchase a couple of beers, and head out of the beer garden tent with those beers.

You win if they cannot.

Loser pays $50 to the winner, which the winner then donates to his charity of choice (thus the winner receives (a) a tax deduction and (b) the ability to direct $50 to the charity of his choice).

What are the consequences you think we'll see from this? I don't think there will be much. Some people will shake their heads in disgust for a brief period of time, then get over it. Fans of other schools will throw out some insults.. but, that's about it. (Well, except for the game day experience, which will a lot of drinking throughout the stadium).

Thanks for Twitter Updates. I now understand why you believe what you believe. What I don't know is how credible this guy is. After all he may go to the Jordan Hinojosa school of texting. You may be right, but I know enough about the politics of this issue and of the University that I will believe it when I see it. As far as the consequences of this, I believe you have way under estimated what they would be. Academic organizations do try to pay more than lip service when comes to honesty as to what they say they are going to do. I am sure Dpodoll pontificate better on this than I can.

As far as the bet, I expect that somebody could and my walk out with two beers, but I would need a written statement that this is the official policy before I would feel comfortable paying. Therefore, I don't think I am going to pursue this any further. It should be interesting to see how this plays out, if at all.

 

[GoAUpher]

The planners and architects did an awesome job with the west end opening to campus, downtown, and our state-of-the-art scoreboard. Kids playing football on the plaza, Memorial Wall, Tribal Nations Plaza, the whole bit. It probably sounds petty and some will disagree; I just think a highly visible beer garden in the plaza diminishes all that.

I understand this concern. But none of the options available come without drawbacks so long "more secured and controlled sales" remains part of the equation. IMO, the plaza happens to offer the fewest drawbacks while also including all of the silly "wins" that GW notes might appease some skittish individuals.

 

[GoAUpher]

You may be right, but I know enough about the politics of this issue and of the University that I will believe it when I see it.

As I noted above, the STrib article now explicitly says it will be allowed to go back to the seats. Unless they are wrong in including this detail the U has already confirmed that part of the plan.

 

[Nokomis]

I win if: during the 2012 season, football fans of age can head over to the beer garden tent at TCF Bank Stadium, purchase a couple of beers, and head out of the beer garden tent with those beers.

You win if they cannot.

Loser pays $50 to the winner, which the winner then donates to his charity of choice (thus the winner receives (a) a tax deduction and (b) the ability to direct $50 to the charity of his choice).

What are the consequences you think we'll see from this? I don't think there will be much. Some people will shake their heads in disgust for a brief period of time, then get over it. Fans of other schools will throw out some insults.. but, that's about it. (Well, except for the game day experience, which will a lot of drinking throughout the stadium).

Since the wind is blowing towards bringing beer back to your seat, I propose a new bet.

Me: There will be no beer garden in the open west end.
You: Three will be a beer garden in the open west end.

Betting for money is boring. IIRC, you're a hiphop fan. How about the loser buys the winner the new P.O.S album due out in September?

 

[Killjoy]

It appears that I have spilled beer all over myself so I am going to hiphop out of here. Now my only question is do I go to the open west end to get another beer?

 

[Nokomis]

This assumes that the U is allowed to have people walking/standing in those areas. There may be legitimate reasons that the space is controlled where it is. Other factors I can see is increased foot traffic in upper deck aisles (PO'ing all the fans inconvenienced by it) and increased use of the elevators, possibly to the detriment of those who legitimately need them.


Except this doesn't offer them the ability to control the access without creating a huge bottleneck (worse then usual) in that portion of the concourse.


This would be even tackier than the current plan plus it means that loud (possibly drunk) people will be buying beer right above kids shopping for goldy hats and the like. Not gonna happen. EDIT: Additional note...as currently constructed the access to that upper level Goldy's space would be even worse than access to a concession stand, plaza garden, or upper deck garden. Lines going into that space would obstruct access to a First Aid/Information station, the Gate A elevator access, and portions of the Gate A stairs.

While the plaza is certainly the easiest and obvious place, they could make another area work if they wanted. Heck, put it down in the tunnel or in the band room; I don't care. Just not in the open end, PLEASE!

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Since the wind is blowing towards bringing beer back to your seat, I propose a new bet.

Me: There will be no beer garden in the open west end.
You: Three will be a beer garden in the open west end.

Betting for money is boring. IIRC, you're a hiphop fan. How about the loser buys the winner the new P.O.S album due out in September?

I don't consider POS hiphop, but am interested in your bet. I'm agreeable to the bet, but if I win, then you buy me a pop at a game... if you win, I'll buy you a beer or a pop - your choice.

I think if you're going to have only one location where all the beer sales take place for the common folk, the west end makes the most sense because you need a decent-sized area for people to stand around and booze. Even if they leave the beer garden area, many will hang out and talk (and yell, swear, puke, etc.) near the point of sale. Also, the illusion of the sales being "restricted" in some way is enhanced by being able to point at only one location that people can see, including security guards and checkers being very visible. "Oh look, they've really got that locked down!"

 

[GoAUpher]

While the plaza is certainly the easiest and obvious place, they could make another area work if they wanted. Heck, put it down in the tunnel or in the band room; I don't care. Just not in the open end, PLEASE!

If it's so easy to overcome the issues I list for other options then feel free to list solutions. My guess is that you won't find it to be all that simple a task. I get that you really don't want it on the open end, but that doesn't mean that solving the problem is as simple as wishing it to be true.

For example: with concession stands, you could possibly improve the bottleneck issue by using multiple stands for beer sales. But that means that multiple stands are "secured and controlled" and that access to them becomes more difficult and less likely to attempted by anyone who doesn't want beer (assuming that they sell anything besides beer). This means fewer "normal" concession stands for everyone else.

I don't see any way to put the garden on the upper deck without causing traffic flow issues in the aisles of the sections closest to the garden and on the elevator closest to the garden. This is a symptom of having access to the 2nd deck come primarily via the main concourse. Also, due to that fact you're now talking about increased foot traffic on stairs from folks who may be more intoxicated than they'd normally be. Feel free to point out otherwise, but there is no simple solution (I'd argue no solution at all) to this problem based on how access to the 2nd deck is currently constructed if the goal is only to sell beer in one spot or if beer sales are prohibited on the plaza entirely.

Like I said, I get why you are concerned. I too like the way the open end functioned/looked as it was originally designed. But if beer sales are going to happen in a "secure and controlled" setting then the open end is by far the best option on the table.

 

[Nokomis]

I don't consider POS hiphop, but am interested in your bet. I'm agreeable to the bet, but if I win, then you buy me a pop at a game... if you win, I'll buy you a beer or a pop - your choice.

I think if you're going to have only one location where all the beer sales take place for the common folk, the west end makes the most sense because you need a decent-sized area for people to stand around and booze. Even if they leave the beer garden area, many will hang out and talk (and yell, swear, puke, etc.) near the point of sale. Also, the illusion of the sales being "restricted" in some way is enhanced by being able to point at only one location that people can see, including security guards and checkers being very visible. "Oh look, they've really got that locked down!"

OT, but what do you consider POS? You can PM me if you want.

You're on for a pop/beer at the game bet.

I agree, the west end makes the most sense. I just think a lot of effort went into designing the plaza and that there would be a lot of backlash if they "sullied" it with a beer garden. Your comment about many people hanging out, yelling, swearing, and puking makes me think they'll try and hide this in some corner even more.

 

[Nokomis]

If it's so easy to overcome the issues I list for other options then feel free to list solutions. My guess is that you won't find it to be all that simple a task. I get that you really don't want it on the open end, but that doesn't mean that solving the problem is as simple as wishing it to be true.

For example: with concession stands, you could possibly improve the bottleneck issue by using multiple stands for beer sales. But that means that multiple stands are "secured and controlled" and that access to them becomes more difficult and less likely to attempted by anyone who doesn't want beer (assuming that they sell anything besides beer). This means fewer "normal" concession stands for everyone else.

I don't see any way to put the garden on the upper deck without causing traffic flow issues in the aisles of the sections closest to the garden and on the elevator closest to the garden. This is a symptom of having access to the 2nd deck come primarily via the main concourse. Also, due to that fact you're now talking about increased foot traffic on stairs from folks who may be more intoxicated than they'd normally be. Feel free to point out otherwise, but there is no simple solution (I'd argue no solution at all) to this problem based on how access to the 2nd deck is currently constructed if the goal is only to sell beer in one spot or if beer sales are prohibited on the plaza entirely.

Like I said, I get why you are concerned. I too like the way the open end functioned/looked as it was originally designed. But if beer sales are going to happen in a "secure and controlled" setting then the open end is by far the best option on the table.

Earlier when I said convert a concession stand, what I was envisioning is gutting it and renovating it into a bar ("garden") of sorts with the entrance flush with the concourse wall. I have no idea how feasible that is, but it would take care of the bottleneck issue and be very easy to secure and regulate.

 

[GoAUpher]

Earlier when I said convert a concession stand, what I was envisioning is gutting it and renovating it into a bar ("garden") of sorts with the entrance flush with the concourse wall. I have no idea how feasible that is, but it would take care of the bottleneck issue and be very easy to secure and regulate.

Ok that helps clarify your thoughts and I like it as an interesting outside the box solution. I'm going to guess that it wouldn't be viable from a space perspective and here's why...The current concession stands are actually quite shallow (maybe 15 feet wide) and I don't believe there is any room to deepen them because the restrooms (and in some areas, other access walkways/behind the scenes spaces) occupy the space behind the concession stands. Even if the space would be wide enough (or even if there was a little wiggle room to deepen one stand), the amount of space within the new "bar" area would likely be so limited as to create lines and thus still cause a bottleneck in the concourse. You could get around it by building multiple "bars" (again, assuming this would be viable given the space issues), but then you're back to the issue of taking away other concession space for beer. There is also the issue of this being a renovation project that would need capital money approved and put towards it, something that is unlikely to happen by September (especially when there is an easier option that doesn't include spending new money beyond a tent and some fencing).

 

[Nokomis]

Ok that helps clarify your thoughts and I like it as an interesting outside the box solution. I'm going to guess that it wouldn't be viable from a space perspective and here's why...The current concession stands are actually quite shallow (maybe 15 feet wide) and I don't believe there is any room to deepen them because the restrooms (and in some areas, other access walkways/behind the scenes spaces) occupy the space behind the concession stands. Even if the space would be wide enough (or even if there was a little wiggle room to deepen one stand), the amount of space within the new "bar" area would likely be so limited as to create lines and thus still cause a bottleneck in the concourse. You could get around it by building multiple "bars" (again, assuming this would be viable given the space issues), but then you're back to the issue of taking away other concession space for beer. There is also the issue of this being a renovation project that would need capital money approved and put towards it, something that is unlikely to happen by September (especially when there is an easier option that doesn't include spending new money beyond a tent and some fencing).

So the concessions space is wide but not deep. That sounds ideal for a walk-through bar where you buy your beer and head back to your seat. Instead of multiple stands throughout the concourse, they could renovate a couple contiguous stands to increase capacity and still have one "garden".
The prior tenants of the stand could move to carts.
While it's an investment, I can't imagine it being more than a drop in the budget of the U's budget. That said, do we want to do it right, or do we want to rush this and look like a bunch of chumps with a beer tent. While 2012 is the current timeline, I'm sure people would be fine with 2013 or '14 if given a vision.

 

[dpodoll68]

do we want to do it right, or do we want to...look like a bunch of chumps with a beer tent

That question was answered long ago.

 

[Deleted_User]

Oops, wrong forum...

 

[station19]

Hmm...that was not there when I read it. Sneaky.

The Secretary of State must have changed the wording.

 

[GoAUpher]

So the concessions space is wide but not deep. That sounds ideal for a walk-through bar where you buy your beer and head back to your seat.

- Given how shallow the stands are I think the primary benefit of your suggestion is that it could move the "securing" element into the new "bar" space which would prob alleviate a little bit of congestion in the concourse (i.e. ID checker at the door as opposed to at the beginning of a corralled line). However, this is still based on the assumption that there is enough space to accomplish the renovation you propose (something that I do not see as a given).
- That said, the limited amount of space would prob only slightly improve the clutter from a line outside the "bar", especially if there is only 1 bar. Essentially your remodel idea is saves the same amount of space as 1 row of people standing end to end in front of the current concession stand's counter. That's not a lot of people and won't reduce overall line issues much.
- Another problem with forcing traffic into that smaller space is that you likely end up with reduced points of sale. If true this definitely results in longer lines.
- Even if keep the same # of POS stations, you still have the issue with lines outside the "bar" if there is only one of them. Since the bar is already likely to have longer lines given the limited access to the product, you still result in congestion. That excludes any people who stand around outside the bar to drink (which would hopefully be lowered by the fact that it's not a "garden").

Instead of multiple stands throughout the concourse, they could renovate a couple contiguous stands to increase capacity and still have one "garden".

If you do this to eliminate the problems from having only 1 "bar" you've created new issues. Specifically, what you've done is forced multiple sections of non-beer drinkers to walk farther to reach non beer selling stands.

The prior tenants of the stand could move to carts.

If you add in carts to keep folks from walking farther then you make the traffic bottlenecks worse. Look no farther that the Target Field concourses for examples of what happens when you put multiple point of sales carts into a concourse.

While it's an investment, I can't imagine it being more than a drop in the budget of the U's budget. That said, do we want to do it right, or do we want to rush this and look like a bunch of chumps with a beer tent. While 2012 is the current timeline, I'm sure people would be fine with 2013 or '14 if given a vision.

I don't disagree that planning ahead might open up more options in future years. But for this year, a garden on the open end is seemingly the only viable choice.

Even with planning, I'm not sure that any option out there offers the same/fewer issues than selling it in the open end. The primary issue is that TCF was not built with controlled GA alcohol sales in mind. The only truly good solutions would be no GA beer sales or GA beer sales at multiple concession stands without the requirement for extra secure conditions (i.e. professional venue beer sales).

I also don't disagree that the cost is nothing compared to the U's wider budget. But we're not talking about the wider U budget, we're talking about a capital expense for the athletic department (I don't see the Regents spending general fund money to make improvements to beer sales). And the athletic department does not have money lying around right now. And which is more important to them in the future...a bball practice facility/updates to the football practice facility or renovations to TCF so that beer doesn't have to be sold on the open end?

 

[GoAUpher]

- That said, the limited amount of space would prob only slightly improve the clutter from a line outside the "bar", especially if there is only 1 bar. Essentially your remodel idea is saves the same amount of space as 1 row of people standing end to end in front of the current concession stand's counter. That's not a lot of people and won't reduce overall line issues much.
- Another problem with forcing traffic into that smaller space is that you likely end up with reduced points of sale. If true this definitely results in longer lines.
- Even if keep the same # of POS stations, you still have the issue with lines outside the "bar" if there is only one of them. Since the bar is already likely to have longer lines given the limited access to the product, you still result in congestion. That excludes any people who stand around outside the bar to drink (which would hopefully be lowered by the fact that it's not a "garden").

Upon further reflection, I think I'm probably understating the number of people you could fit into one of the "bars". I'm still unsure that you could build something in the space that removes line congestion outside the "bar" but that is based on an assumption of demand (in my mind, pretty high if you're talking about 1 "bar"). One other factor that I don't think anyone can anticipate is what are the maximum occupancy rules and accessibility rules for a space that small. Those could result in a smaller number of people allowed in than the max you could cram in if you went shoulder to shoulder. My concerns with multiple "bars" and carts stand though.

Budgets and renovation timelines aside, this is why you put the POS on the open end to start. It has the most space to allow for congestion. From that, you can gauge overall demand and determine if other options (renovated concession stand, upper deck access, etc) are viable or even needed. And if you do want to do something like renovate a current concession stand, it gives you time to properly plan for all the contingencies (like occupancy limits). There is also the chance that they determine a strict "secure and control" policy is not needed an carding everyone at a few normal concession stands is acceptable.

 

[Nokomis]

- Given how shallow the stands are I think the primary benefit of your suggestion is that it could move the "securing" element into the new "bar" space which would prob alleviate a little bit of congestion in the concourse (i.e. ID checker at the door as opposed to at the beginning of a corralled line). However, this is still based on the assumption that there is enough space to accomplish the renovation you propose (something that I do not see as a given).
- That said, the limited amount of space would prob only slightly improve the clutter from a line outside the "bar", especially if there is only 1 bar. Essentially your remodel idea is saves the same amount of space as 1 row of people standing end to end in front of the current concession stand's counter. That's not a lot of people and won't reduce overall line issues much.
- Another problem with forcing traffic into that smaller space is that you likely end up with reduced points of sale. If true this definitely results in longer lines.
- Even if keep the same # of POS stations, you still have the issue with lines outside the "bar" if there is only one of them. Since the bar is already likely to have longer lines given the limited access to the product, you still result in congestion. That excludes any people who stand around outside the bar to drink (which would hopefully be lowered by the fact that it's not a "garden").

If you do this to eliminate the problems from having only 1 "bar" you've created new issues. Specifically, what you've done is forced multiple sections of non-beer drinkers to walk farther to reach non beer selling stands.

If you add in carts to keep folks from walking farther then you make the traffic bottlenecks worse. Look no farther that the Target Field concourses for examples of what happens when you put multiple point of sales carts into a concourse.

I don't disagree that planning ahead might open up more options in future years. But for this year, a garden on the open end is seemingly the only viable choice.

Even with planning, I'm not sure that any option out there offers the same/fewer issues than selling it in the open end. The primary issue is that TCF was not built with controlled GA alcohol sales in mind. The only truly good solutions would be no GA beer sales or GA beer sales at multiple concession stands without the requirement for extra secure conditions (i.e. professional venue beer sales).

I also don't disagree that the cost is nothing compared to the U's wider budget. But we're not talking about the wider U budget, we're talking about a capital expense for the athletic department (I don't see the Regents spending general fund money to make improvements to beer sales). And the athletic department does not have money lying around right now. And which is more important to them in the future...a bball practice facility/updates to the football practice facility or renovations to TCF so that beer doesn't have to be sold on the open end?

Then don't do it! I like that The U stood its ground with the legislature. In a few election cycles, hopefully we'll have a new legislature that better understands The U's mission and will allow alcohol sales in premium seating only. Even if the Regents want a beer garden, the legislature only agreed earlier this year, and the Regents are voting on it two months before the start of the season. Take a breathe and do it right.

I'm not on the planning committee nor do I know the scematics on TCF, so I won't debate you point by point. But basically you're trading headaches in one area for headaches in another. I agree; the only true good solution is no GA beer sales, which is, as you point out, how TCF was designed to handle.

 

[GoAUpher]

Then don't do it! I like that The U stood its ground with the legislature. In a few election cycles, hopefully we'll have a new legislature that better understands The U's mission and will allow alcohol sales in premium seating only. Even if the Regents want a beer garden, the legislature only agreed earlier this year, and the Regents are voting on it two months before the start of the season. Take a breathe and do it right.

That's all well and good but the ship has sailed. The compromised happened, and it happened because the U wants that revenue now. They aren't waiting because the dept stands to make upwards of 2 million more dollars this year across all 3 venues. I'm not saying you have to be happy with it, but you can't wish away the reasons that led to the compromise happening.

But basically you're trading headaches in one area for headaches in another. I agree; the only true good solution is no GA beer sales, which is, as you point out, how TCF was designed to handle.

The only real headaches presented by selling on the open end are visual (which isn't a headache that will affect everyone, just those who have a specific visual aesthetic in mind) and, maybe, congestion. But if there is congestion on the plaza it will affect a smaller number of people then congestion at any of the other areas talked about. In other words, one headache (congestion) will be a smaller pain on the plaza then anywhere else and the other (visual/feelings of how the plaza should be used) is not universal and will not bother all people who come to TCF. There is not a 1 to 1 trade off here.

 

[Nokomis]

That's all well and good but the ship has sailed. The compromised happened, and it happened because the U wants that revenue now. They aren't waiting because the dept stands to make upwards of 2 million more dollars this year across all 3 venues. I'm not saying you have to be happy with it, but you can't wish away the reasons that led to the compromise happening.


The only real headaches presented by selling on the open end are visual (which isn't a headache that will affect everyone, just those who have a specific visual aesthetic in mind) and, maybe, congestion. But if there is congestion on the plaza it will affect a smaller number of people then congestion at any of the other areas talked about. In other words, one headache (congestion) will be a smaller pain on the plaza then anywhere else and the other (visual/feelings of how the plaza should be used) is not universal and will not bother all people who come to TCF. There is not a 1 to 1 trade off here.

While the headache tradeoff may not be 1 to 1, the percentage of people wanting the garden in the plaza vs. someplace else is also not 1 to 1. The poll thread shows 50% of those that answered would not consume a beer at the stadium. 80% would consume less than 2. Students can't buy. So you're making a beer tent for a small fraction of the fans? But you're right, this is about money, not what the fans want. And the plaza is the most efficient and economical. But, you say alcohol sales will bring in $2M/year. What can it cost to retro fit a bar into the concourse? A few hundred thousand? If there's a will, there's a way. But as you point out, that's a huge IF.

 

[Dr.Don]

Just sell it stadiumwide like at Target Field where the vendors can tell if a kid is 21 or not. Just ask Wally the Beerman.

 

[GoAUpher]

While the headache tradeoff may not be 1 to 1, the percentage of people wanting the garden in the plaza vs. someplace else is also not 1 to 1. The poll thread shows 50% of those that answered would not consume a beer at the stadium. 80% would consume less than 2.

GopherHole is in no way a representative sample of the Gopher fan population. Plus, as of the time I'm posting this only 60 people have voted. You're talking about a sample that equates to 2 tenths of 1% of the season ticket holder base and just over 1 tenth of 1% of the total number of fans who could buy beer from this stand at TCF (I excluded the premium seatholders).

Students can't buy.

If they are over 21 with a valid ID they can.

So you're making a beer tent for a small fraction of the fans? But you're right, this is about money, not what the fans want. And the plaza is the most efficient and economical. But, you say alcohol sales will bring in $2M/year. What can it cost to retro fit a bar into the concourse? A few hundred thousand?

I don't know what the renovation will cost but it isn't hard to deduce that it will cost way more than a temporary tent. That aside, if you truly want them to "do it right" and an option (like renovation) is ever a possibility then a beer garden on the open end is a key part of gauging demand. Understanding the demand would be very important to making sure a more expensive "bar" option IS done right. Getting the additional revenue is also a key factor if a more expensive option is ever to become a reality.

If there's a will, there's a way. But as you point out, that's a huge IF.

There's no will or way for any option like your "bar" to happen this season. There is no money to fund the project, not enough information to get it right on short notice, and possibly not enough time to complete the work even if the other two issues didn't exist. Long term I do think moving it off the plaza is a big IF, particularly if the U keeps pushing "controlled purchases" as a pre-req for sales. Any option involving renovating TCF is always going to come out on the wrong end of a cost/benefits analysis compared to a temporary structure on the plaza.

 

[FarmGopher]

Why don't they put the beer garden in the "hidden" 2nd concourse that's above the concession stands? I think that it's only there in case they add a 3rd deck, so why not use it for the beer garden? It's really big, it has controlled entrances and exits, you can't see it from the seating sections, and it would have a cool view of the surrounding area through the giant windows. Throw a few big screens up there so you can "watch" the game, and you have everything you need.

I don't understand why you can take the beer back to your seats. That makes it a beer "stand" not a beer "garden", in my opinion. I also don't know how they are going to keep from selling to students. Are they going to wall off the students from the other parts of the stadium, because how do you prove someone "is" a student? "You're a student", "No, I'm not", "Oh, ok, that'll be $8.75." Plus, think how pissed the legislature will be when they realize beer availability will be based on an individual's educational status. Are they saying a 45 year old person returning to finish their college degree will be prevented to buy a beer? Talk about "class warfare". And will a 21 year old Drunk Skunk student from Madison sitting in the visitors section be served beer, while a 21 year old U student be denied? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?