Strack: Treyton Thompson Makes Case For Larger Role; Ben Johnson Unsure

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Mulligan said:
And some of you pass up no chance to piss and moan and act like you know better than the guy who sees these players every day and, I'm quite sure, knows a hell of a lot more about developing players than you do.
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Let me educate you: I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF COACHES' MINDS!

Since I don't know about these things, anything is possible.

Now, some of you act like you know these people like best buddies and know what they would do and what they wouldn't do. I think that's a form of projection, or maybe just the halo effect again.

I just said that it's possible Ben isn't all that supportive about Thompson returning next year. I don't know if that's true or not.
 

Fleckoff said:
Nothing to do with Ben, but I will bet you a thousand dollars Thompson doesn't transfer. kid comes out ten minutes after every home game and puts up shots and was committed by thanksgiving of his Junior year. If you're going to worry about a kid transferring, it would probably be Thiam, since we have to freshman guards coming in at his spot and will probably take couple more guards in the portal as well. That's not to say I want Thiam transfer, hope he sticks it out, comes back and competes for minutes next year, but he's far from home and the path to playing time will only get murkier for him, if he's having trouble cracking the rotation now.
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Why would I bet that Thompson would transfer? I don't know whether he will or not. With Pitino I could tell usually when players were going to transfer (it was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain who was paying attention that Washington and Buggs were going to transfer when they did). With this coach and these players, I don't know yet but we have one-time no excuse/no delay transferring so transferring is more appealing to coaches and players now.

Would you have bet that Ky Thomas wouldn't transfer? You would have lost that one.
 

Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
 

swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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Form a search committee ASAP!
 


swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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Fire up the popcorn. This should be fun!
 

swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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I hate it when things don't go our way.:mad:
 

cjbfbp said:
Why would I bet that Thompson would transfer? I don't know whether he will or not. With Pitino I could tell usually when players were going to transfer (it was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain who was paying attention that Washington and Buggs were going to transfer when they did). With this coach and these players, I don't know yet but we have one-time no excuse/no delay transferring so transferring is more appealing to coaches and players now.

Would you have bet that Ky Thomas wouldn't transfer? You would have lost that one.
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Learned long ago not to make bets about things that you're not confident about, but the think with Ky was he was 5th or sixth string when the year started, obviously injuries and Cam Wiley not being good thwarted him and Bucky into action, but honestly at the start of the year, it wouldn't have shocked me and once I heard Mo was coming back it did cross my mind with him and Bucky, tough to go from 20 carries a game to maybe getting five or even none, but anyways as far as Buggs goes I thought he hung around a couple more years than i thought, I thought he would bolt when Wally did, even Jelly I thought stayed a year longer, but Jelly also got more run at the end of his freshman year, so perhaps he thought he would start when Nate left, but bringing Carr, Willis and trying to get Geno were pretty obvious signs. Treyton's also local and you have to keep those relationships strong, especially with D1 Minnesota, his AAU program, so I'm guessing worse case Treyton will be a bench guy like Michael Hurt was, which honestly I'd rather have locals in spots 10-12 on the bench, think the name on the front will matter a little bit more than to a freshman who might be playing as much as he'd like that's from out of state.
 

swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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It is too early to know how much he has developed his bench since it is just over halfway through year one, but lets assume it isn't too soon. Unless you are strictly worried about wins you would not play seniors on the bench when you are trying to develop a bench. I think we would agree on this but if I am missing something let me know.

The only non seniors on the roster that are available to the coacing staff are:
ABDOULAYE THIAM
JACKSON PURCELL
TREYTON THOMPSON
JAMISON BATTLEWILL RAMBERG

2 of these are walk ons, Purcell and Ramberg.
Purcell hasn't played a nanosecond, clearly he is being redshirted and I seem to recall he was injured a good portion of his senior season so he likely has acclimating to college and injury recovery that makes his freshman year particularly challenging. I would expect Purcell to redshirt.

Ramberg has played meaningful minutes (~4 minutes/game, not just blowout losses victories) much of the year as a sub for battle (primarily). For a walk on I have been impressed with his playing time and he has been solid contributor in those minutes.

Battle has been playing ~the most minutes in the conference so he is clearly being developed.

This leaves us with Thiam and Thompson as likely the only ones that a person might expect more development time from the bench.

Thiam has played in 8 of 15 games averaging ~4 minutes a game and is 0-4 from 3 and 0-9 if you include the exhibition game. He has shown me some athleticism and has been active when in but in my opinion that has been overshadowed with his eagerness to jack up a 3 early in the shot clock and not working harder to move the ball and get assists. I think his minutes so far have been about right for a per game average but I would have liked to see him in every game although that might have resulted in more losses so I think his minutes are about right overall.

Thompson has played in 7 of 15 games averaging just under 4 minutes a game. This is the one player I have been most disappointed with his minutes and from my standpoint would support your assertion of not developing the bench. In defense of BF but some of his minutes have been in the middle of the game when the result has been in the balance so the minutes have not been just garbage time.

In conclusion, if we are going to assume developing the bench can only be done during a game (which is clearly not true but is certainly a metric that is likely valid, especially over a 4-5 year career of a class of recruits), then I would say Ramberg has developed more than I expected and Thompson less. So I would give BJ an average for developing players and by seasons end it could be a better than average if Thompson gets more minutes from here to the finish and plays like he did against Iowa. Thompson appears to me to have clearly more mass on his frame than he did on day 1 and his aggressiveness inside and ability to take contact inside vs. Iowa was impressive and not as tentative as he looked at times in other games.
 



swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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Developing a bench is for guys that can still contribute in small doses, without derailing the entire team in their short stints. We have proof of TT doing this once, lets give Ben some more leash here in why he has held these guys out. Just playing in practice alone is the main way you develop a bench, and then slowly add to game time. This is Bens first year, overachieving with little talent, which he has certainly did up till now, is the best way to make a name for your program, maybe TT and Thiam are too big of liablities at this point to keep that bar raised, and to avoid significant self inflected wounds.
 

swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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Next year he will have Ihnen and Fox, two experienced guys, to go with Battle. We'll still need a good point guard from the portal and maybe a good post and 40% three shooter at guard if we get lucky. Carington and the freshman center should be good enough to play some.
 

victor04 said:
maybe TT and Thiam are too big of liablities at this point to keep that bar raised, and to avoid significant self inflected wounds.
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I can't buy this argument, at least in Thompsons's case. Daniels simply isn't significantly better than him, if he even is. So the idea that Thompson is "too big of a liability" just doesn't fly IMO.
 

howeda7 said:
I can't buy this argument, at least in Thompsons's case. Daniels simply isn't significantly better than him, if he even is. So the idea that Thompson is "too big of a liability" just doesn't fly IMO.
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Obviously, none of us has been able to see what happens at practice every day, but what if the truth is that Thompson is actually getting dominated in practice at the things Johnson wants his posts to be able to do regularly. Maybe Thompson is a viable piece in the middle of a zone defense, but that doesn't seem to be the style that coach wants to play. It seems he has recruited guys who are strong and versitile man-to-man defenders and the zone is more of a last resort for Ben.

It was great to see the Gophers and Thompson's big comeback over the week-end, but we have to remember that Iowa was up big and cruising, they obviously hadn't really game-planned for the Gophers zone, since they do it so rarely and you can bet that Thompson wasn't even mentioned in scout report.

I know a lot of coaches who have the philosophy that if you don't show me you can handle our style and game plan in practice consistently, you probably will have a very short or no leash. The idea being that if Curry and Daniels are doing what I want them to do in practice and you're struggling, you haven't earned game minutes. Obviously, having not seen full practices, it's hard to say if that's the case. Having watched and talked to more than a few coaches over the years regarding what they look for in practice, I think another poster above had a point in saying that a lot of us put way more stock in the idea that you can only develop depth and players through actual game time than many coaches do.

Now, if Johnson is considering using more zone defenses in the future against certain teams, then, based specifically the Iowa game, Thompson may get a longer leash.
 



Chico Gopher said:
Obviously, none of us has been able to see what happens at practice every day, but what if the truth is that Thompson is actually getting dominated in practice at the things Johnson wants his posts to be able to do regularly. Maybe Thompson is a viable piece in the middle of a zone defense, but that doesn't seem to be the style that coach wants to play. It seems he has recruited guys who are strong and versitile man-to-man defenders and the zone is more of a last resort for Ben.

It was great to see the Gophers and Thompson's big comeback over the week-end, but we have to remember that Iowa was up big and cruising, they obviously hadn't really game-planned for the Gophers zone, since they do it so rarely and you can bet that Thompson wasn't even mentioned in scout report.

I know a lot of coaches who have the philosophy that if you don't show me you can handle our style and game plan in practice consistently, you probably will have a very short or no leash. The idea being that if Curry and Daniels are doing what I want them to do in practiece and you're struggling, you haven't earned game minutes. Obviously, having not seen full practices, it's hard to say if that's the case. Having watched and talked to more than a few coaches over the years onregarding what they look for in practice, I think another poster above had a point in saying that a lot of us put way more stock in the idea that you can only develop depth and players through actual game time than many coaches do.

Now, if Johnson is considering using more zone defenses in the future against certain teams, then, based specifically the Iowa game, Thompson may get a longer leash.
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When the season starts how much practice is actually done that will make a difference, when you are playing twice a week a good portion of practice is done preparing for the next game, not that much development is going to happen. If a guy isn't somehow worked into the game plan no matter how minor that might be I don't see much change happening, over time loss of focus is going to occur. Thompson didn't see the floor for weeks, that is going to have an impact and deter development. Any one that has ever worked in a role that develops people knows that the carrot has to continually be dangled.
 


swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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👿
 

jovs said:
When the season starts how much practice is actually done that will make a difference, when you are playing twice a week a good portion of practice is done preparing for the next game, not that much development is going to happen. If a guy isn't somehow worked into the game plan no matter how minor that might be I don't see much change happening, over time loss of focus is going to occur. Thompson didn't see the floor for weeks, that is going to have an impact and deter development. Any one that has ever worked in a role that develops people knows that the carrot has to continually be dangled.
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You'd be surprised how much development can happen during practice during the season, not to mention in individual work-outs that happen outside of practice. I know of a more than a few players who come into the gym either by themselves or with a partner at 6am every morning before class to work on specific areas of their game in their chase for excellence or more playing time.

Even while working on game plans, there are a lot of 2 on 2, 3 on 3 drills, rebounding drills, close-out drills, ect. that happen during a typical practice. I can't speak specifically to Ben and what he does during his practices, but it happens at most other practices I have attended over the years. Again, most of the coaches I've talked to and seen close up will tell you that most development and useful experience for young players comes from what they do and see in 5-90 minute days at practice as opposed to a 4-5 minute stint in a game. The idea is that if you can't handle Curry and Daniels or Battle effectively and consistently in practice, then it's probably going to be hard for you to get into a game. Again, I haven't been at any Minnesota practices, but I've seen that scenario play out 100 times. Some guys work through it and eventually "get it" and become productive and get consistent enough to earn minutes, some don't. Some get it much more quickly than others. As we all know, big guys can take longer to get there than guards.

And of course the carrot is always being dangled, but the good coaches are always honest about both the long and short term goals/results. And honestly, if you're a coach and a loss of focus by a player who obviously needs time and work on the skills you need him to have, is a concern because the player isn't seeing immediate results and rewards, then you'd question if he is truly a good fit for your culture and team goals. Luckily, we haven't heard any negative vibes coming from Thompson. It's very possible that he knows that this isn't going to be his year and knows the goal is for him to be ready to be a competitive Big Ten player by next season.
 
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Daniels couldn't catch a ball or throw it one of his teammates the first half against Iowa, no excuse being down 20 and not getting TT a four minute run. That's on Ben, huge mistake? No, but I hope stuff like this doesn't continue.
 

Chico Gopher said:
Obviously, none of us has been able to see what happens at practice every day, but what if the truth is that Thompson is actually getting dominated in practice at the things Johnson wants his posts to be able to do regularly. Maybe Thompson is a viable piece in the middle of a zone defense, but that doesn't seem to be the style that coach wants to play. It seems he has recruited guys who are strong and versitile man-to-man defenders and the zone is more of a last resort for Ben.

It was great to see the Gophers and Thompson's big comeback over the week-end, but we have to remember that Iowa was up big and cruising, they obviously hadn't really game-planned for the Gophers zone, since they do it so rarely and you can bet that Thompson wasn't even mentioned in scout report.

I know a lot of coaches who have the philosophy that if you don't show me you can handle our style and game plan in practice consistently, you probably will have a very short or no leash. The idea being that if Curry and Daniels are doing what I want them to do in practice and you're struggling, you haven't earned game minutes. Obviously, having not seen full practices, it's hard to say if that's the case. Having watched and talked to more than a few coaches over the years regarding what they look for in practice, I think another poster above had a point in saying that a lot of us put way more stock in the idea that you can only develop depth and players through actual game time than many coaches do.

Now, if Johnson is considering using more zone defenses in the future against certain teams, then, based specifically the Iowa game, Thompson may get a longer leash.
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Maybe TT is showing enough in practice for Ben to consider changing up on D with a zone and TT in the middle. I have always assumed that Daniels is more game ready than TT. But I would rather see TT make mistakes than Daniels as he is getting valuable PT and more things to work on. Once Curry comes back, and I hope at full strength, the question will be who will get the 5-10 minutes of PT and not be a huge liability.

Ben playing a zone as a change up causes the opposing team to spend more time of prep rather than knowing Ben with go man 100%. Plus a zone does give our iron men a bit of a breather and not have to consistently fight through screens and defend a greater portion of the floor.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Maybe TT is showing enough in practice for Ben to consider changing up on D with a zone and TT in the middle. I have always assumed that Daniels is more game ready than TT. But I would rather see TT make mistakes than Daniels as he is getting valuable PT and more things to work on. Once Curry comes back, and I hope at full strength, the question will be who will get the 5-10 minutes of PT and not be a huge liability.

Ben playing a zone as a change up causes the opposing team to spend more time of prep rather than knowing Ben with go man 100%. Plus a zone does give our iron men a bit of a breather and not have to consistently fight through screens and defend a greater portion of the floor.
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I don't disagree with the idea of occasionally changing up a defensive look when everything you normally do is not working. But, the idea of going away from your defensive philosophy and the defensive identity and culture you're trying to instill in your team, just so you can get more floor time for your 3rd string center seems like a giant step backwards and short term thinking.

I'm thinking Ben's plan to keep Thompson focused and working on the things that Ben would like to have him become serviceable at in practice every day until he shows he's capable of executing consistently is probably the better long range plan. I would imagine that Ben has said as much to Thompson and, considering that Ben has mentioned Thompson's hard work in practice a few times, they are on the same page about it.
 

Ragnor said:
It is too early to know how much he has developed his bench since it is just over halfway through year one, but lets assume it isn't too soon. Unless you are strictly worried about wins you would not play seniors on the bench when you are trying to develop a bench. I think we would agree on this but if I am missing something let me know.

The only non seniors on the roster that are available to the coacing staff are:
ABDOULAYE THIAM
JACKSON PURCELL
TREYTON THOMPSON
JAMISON BATTLEWILL RAMBERG

2 of these are walk ons, Purcell and Ramberg.
Purcell hasn't played a nanosecond, clearly he is being redshirted and I seem to recall he was injured a good portion of his senior season so he likely has acclimating to college and injury recovery that makes his freshman year particularly challenging. I would expect Purcell to redshirt.

Ramberg has played meaningful minutes (~4 minutes/game, not just blowout losses victories) much of the year as a sub for battle (primarily). For a walk on I have been impressed with his playing time and he has been solid contributor in those minutes.

Battle has been playing ~the most minutes in the conference so he is clearly being developed.

This leaves us with Thiam and Thompson as likely the only ones that a person might expect more development time from the bench.

Thiam has played in 8 of 15 games averaging ~4 minutes a game and is 0-4 from 3 and 0-9 if you include the exhibition game. He has shown me some athleticism and has been active when in but in my opinion that has been overshadowed with his eagerness to jack up a 3 early in the shot clock and not working harder to move the ball and get assists. I think his minutes so far have been about right for a per game average but I would have liked to see him in every game although that might have resulted in more losses so I think his minutes are about right overall.

Thompson has played in 7 of 15 games averaging just under 4 minutes a game. This is the one player I have been most disappointed with his minutes and from my standpoint would support your assertion of not developing the bench. In defense of BF but some of his minutes have been in the middle of the game when the result has been in the balance so the minutes have not been just garbage time.

In conclusion, if we are going to assume developing the bench can only be done during a game (which is clearly not true but is certainly a metric that is likely valid, especially over a 4-5 year career of a class of recruits), then I would say Ramberg has developed more than I expected and Thompson less. So I would give BJ an average for developing players and by seasons end it could be a better than average if Thompson gets more minutes from here to the finish and plays like he did against Iowa. Thompson appears to me to have clearly more mass on his frame than he did on day 1 and his aggressiveness inside and ability to take contact inside vs. Iowa was impressive and not as tentative as he looked at times in other games.
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Purcell tore his ACL and is out for the year
 

howeda7 said:
I can't buy this argument, at least in Thompsons's case. Daniels simply isn't significantly better than him, if he even is. So the idea that Thompson is "too big of a liability" just doesn't fly IMO.
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There's two sides of the ball. While Daniels is a black hole on offense, he is much stronger in the post then Treyton is on defense. So unless Treyton's offense can get to the point where it's more valuable than Daniels defense. Daniels is going to get minutes
 

cjbfbp said:
Let me educate you: I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF COACHES' MINDS!

Since I don't know about these things, anything is possible.

Now, some of you act like you know these people like best buddies and know what they would do and what they wouldn't do. I think that's a form of projection, or maybe just the halo effect again.

I just said that it's possible Ben isn't all that supportive about Thompson returning next year. I don't know if that's true or not.
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Thompson's been a Gopher since starting to dribble a basketball. If he leaves it will be because he was shoved. That shove maybe in the form of Ben saying I'm not going to play you period.
 

Fleckoff said:
There's two sides of the ball. While Daniels is a black hole on offense, he is much stronger in the post then Treyton is on defense. So unless Treyton's offense can get to the point where it's more valuable than Daniels defense. Daniels is going to get minutes
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Looked to me like TT was in a much better position for rebounding. That offensive rebound put back was between 3 Iowa players. No one else on the team could have done that besides maybe Fox or Ihnen. He did a nice job not getting pushed around considering how thin he is but Daniels does do a nice job of holding his ground defensively but not as much altering the shot.
 

Fleckoff said:
Learned long ago not to make bets about things that you're not confident about, but the think with Ky was he was 5th or sixth string when the year started, obviously injuries and Cam Wiley not being good thwarted him and Bucky into action, but honestly at the start of the year, it wouldn't have shocked me and once I heard Mo was coming back it did cross my mind with him and Bucky, tough to go from 20 carries a game to maybe getting five or even none, but anyways as far as Buggs goes I thought he hung around a couple more years than i thought, I thought he would bolt when Wally did, even Jelly I thought stayed a year longer, but Jelly also got more run at the end of his freshman year, so perhaps he thought he would start when Nate left, but bringing Carr, Willis and trying to get Geno were pretty obvious signs. Treyton's also local and you have to keep those relationships strong, especially with D1 Minnesota, his AAU program, so I'm guessing worse case Treyton will be a bench guy like Michael Hurt was, which honestly I'd rather have locals in spots 10-12 on the bench, think the name on the front will matter a little bit more than to a freshman who might be playing as much as he'd like that's from out of state.
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All of that info, packed into two sentences.

Impressive.
 

PhiloVance said:
Thompson's been a Gopher since starting to dribble a basketball. If he leaves it will be because he was shoved. That shove maybe in the form of Ben saying I'm not going to play you period.
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Recognize that alphabet soup and barnburner are only here to bitch and complain. Best to leave them alone and ignore them.
 

Holy balls.... some of you guys are on the pipe.
TT has to earn playing time..period
One good game does not make a good player
Just giving someone playing time that hasn't earned is absurd.
Playing someone because you think they're going to transfer if they don't is equally absurd.
Ben Johnson plays to win not give not give experience to young players that aren't ready.
Ben Johnson will play him when he is ready. He also stated in his press conference that TT made strides in practice the previous week to earn playing time.
 


swanyj said:
Coach Johnson is doing the same things everyone criticized Pitino for. Not developing a bench. We have almost all of the players that are starting will gone next year and Johnson still refuses to work on getting Thiam and Thompson into the games. This team is going no where this year despite some better than expected play. But it will be the same next year due to no experience on the team which he refuses and is too stubborn to work on developing this year. Johnson sucks
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Satire?
 

Gopherbbdude said:
Holy balls.... some of you guys are on the pipe.
TT has to earn playing time..period
One good game does not make a good player
Just giving someone playing time that hasn't earned is absurd.
Playing someone because you think they're going to transfer if they don't is equally absurd.
Ben Johnson plays to win not give not give experience to young players that aren't ready.
Ben Johnson will play him when he is ready. He also stated in his press conference that TT made strides in practice the previous week to earn playing time.
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Has Daniels "earned" his playing time any more than TT though?
 

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