StarTrib: How plunging ticket sales have changed Gophers sports

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Historical perspective.

Last year of Smokey Joe season ticket sales approx. 25k.
First year of Holtz season ticket sales approx. 35k.
Year two of Holtz over 50k. Students barrage the presidents office to make more student tickets available for games.

We haven't beat Wisconsin in 15 years. Consistent competitiveness returned to the football team in Madison and so did their fan base. This is not a troll post. As conference competitiveness has failed to surface here for decades how could any sort of fan base build or sustain at any prior level? It simply can't. Logic will not allow.

Win consistently and the people will come. The students, the corporate, and the average Joe.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
I'm in my mid 40's and I am really annoyed at how RTB has taken over Ski-U-Mah as the U's slogan. I do not like how Fleck is putting himself and his slogans/brand above the U and the team.
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Insightful take.

Have you thought for a millisecond about the disingenuous marketing efforts of all the other sports teams in town? Take the Twins...the epitome of putting slogans and brands above the team. Normally I'm a bit of a skeptic but Fleck's RTB is at least grounded by some personal inspiration that I would not question...If it's not for you, take your money across town and throw it down on the "This is how we baseball (by tanking and taking your $$$ every single year)" team or any other sports team in town driven by hollow marketing campaigns.
 

1967 2.0 said:
Historical perspective.

Last year of Smokey Joe season ticket sales approx. 25k.
First year of Holtz season ticket sales approx. 35k.
Year two of Holtz over 50k. Students barrage the presidents office to make more student tickets available for games.

We haven't beat Wisconsin in 15 years. Consistent competitiveness returned to the football team in Madison and so did their fan base. This is not a troll post. As conference competitiveness has failed to surface here for decades how could any sort of fan base build or sustain at any prior level? It simply can't. Logic will not allow.

Win consistently and the people will come. The students, the corporate, and the average Joe.
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Thnx for objective info on the Lou Holtz effect. On a personal level, I also bought in (alumni by then) and had 2 things happen. First, after Lou left for ND, had leftover Deluxe Lou Holtz engraved blank checks that were unfit to use. Second, was afraid to get excited about Gopher FB no matter who was coach. "For how long" was the fear if they were successful. Has anyone checked PJ's contract for a ND escape clause?
 

The Twins "This is how we baseball", MN Wild "The State of Hockey" and the ultimate vomit inducer MN Vikings "SKOL". All are bogus marketing efforts designed to make money. The Gophers are competing with these money making machines who win just enough to bring in enough money to keep the owners happy. The Gophers and coach Fleck are saying: "Hey MN we are going to win the Big Ten". He is setting expectations and they are higher than this town can handle so "fans" blame the slogan Row The Boat for not buying tickets? HAHAHA. I say if the team is winning they will show up just like they did for Jerry Kill and Brick by Brick.

Full disclosure: I go to every home game and we are traveling to Nebraska this year. Gopher fan since 1973.
 

happygophersgolucky said:
Thnx for objective info on the Lou Holtz effect. On a personal level, I also bought in (alumni by then) and had 2 things happen. First, after Lou left for ND, had leftover Deluxe Lou Holtz engraved blank checks that were unfit to use. Second, was afraid to get excited about Gopher FB no matter who was coach. "For how long" was the fear if they were successful. Has anyone checked PJ's contract for a ND escape clause?
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No coach has left for greener pastures in over 40 years. Maybe time to start wishing again.
 


Pete smith said:
In just a very short time on campus, he has done MORE for Gopher football, Gopher athletics than Kill, Claeys, Brewster, Mason as well as the past coaches combined.
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Care to elaborate on this?

He has beaten no rivals, won no trophies, played no bowl games, built no stadia. I think it's impossible to say he has already done more than any of the previous coaches, much less any combination of them. That isn't to say Fleck can't achieve more than any of those previous coaches, but to say he has already is simply false and hurts your credibility.
 

Winnipegopher said:
No coach has left for greener pastures in over 40 years. Maybe time to start wishing again.
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Yep, I am optimistic again. Complete buy in with Pj and RTB. Believe it is the best way to rebuild a winning team in a tough conference in the modern era. Don't know how long it will take but so will be happy to see consistant progress and building wins.

Would class myself as moderately optimistic for this year (6-7 wins) but longer term (2020+) fully optimistic for competing at least for West Div of B1G.
 

Pete smith said:
For all you supposed Gopher fans in your 30’s,40’s,50’s whatever age, take a hike. If you can’t support PJ and his RTB culture, then you can’t support the Gophers. In just a very short time on campus, he has done MORE for Gopher football, Gopher athletics than Kill, Claeys, Brewster, Mason as well as the past coaches combined. Gopher football is close to being relevant once again. Something I witnessed back in the sixties. So complain all you want but PJ is the right coach at the right time. My suggestion to you is find something else to do during the fall on Saturdays, but for me I will be at TCF cheering as loud as I can for the Gophers.
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The bold part is patently absurd. Fleck has given us one crappy season. The four coaches you mentioned gave us 14 seasons that were better than Fleck's one. It's fine to be optimistic if you think Fleck has us on the right track and will take us to new heights, but I am getting so sick of us trying to crap on everything that's happened before just to try to make Fleck look better by comparison. Of Kill, Claeys, Brewster, Mason, and Fleck, maybe we should wait until he has the highest single season win total of anyone on that list before we anoint him the greatest ever.
 

The most striking thing for me about the article was the chart that showed we have had the second worst percentage decline. This demonstrates that the problem is more than just changing national trends. Our athletic department really is the second least competent in the conference (third if Northwestern's unreported results are worse than ours).
 



The Vikings are a whole beast of their own. Before Moss, the Gophers had a period where they could have capitalized on the market, but they failed to. Now, they have a radio station and their own VEN to publish media constantly to self promote constantly. The MN Wild, which is still a niche sport to me, gets WAY MORE airtime than Gopher Football does. It's astounding to me, but evidently, there's a market for hockey talk.

I think part of the issue is perception. You buy tickets now and show up to a stadium that's half full, you start to wonder why you're one of a few people who are buying tickets. Than a scandal breaks out, and in a political charged era, suddenly people start to question why you support athletes who misbehave.

If you lower the price to the point where you sell out, you take away the punchline that they don't sell out. Keep the program clean. Do some public service and market it. Suddenly you have 8 home with 51k filling the stadium, and some people who want to go can't actually get in. So next year they decide to buy season tickets so they are guaranteed tickets.

Suddenly, people start to feel the tickets they purchased are more valuable than what they paid for them. And suddenly, if the program is performing positive public service, you don't feel to bad paying an extra $5-10-$20 extra a ticket because you're supporting something good.



It goes back to the buyers perspective. Am I buying something that's a good deal compared to what others have to pay for it?

Or am I buying, and then seeing last minute people show up and buy tickets at a discounted price, for a product people are embarrassed of because it leads the news nightly at 10:00 PM with allegations.



You'd be far better dropping the price, getting people to commit to season tickets. Creating a strong secondary market for them, and then slowly increasing prices based on the information you gain from your new season ticket holders.

If you got to 45-50k in season tickets, suddenly you start to know who your market is. With the data that is available to you once you get them to commit, suddenly you can start to identify which of your fans can pay more and might appreciate the upgrade. You might be able to survey to determine what's their income, what's their preferred ticket package, if they'd like to upgrade, where to, etc.

Instead, right now you are looking at 10-15k of empty seats and they don't give you any info on who might buy the seat next.

If I were Mark Coyle, I'd renew with corporations on their season tickets then announce a reverse auction to sell out the remaining 30-50k in season tickets. You click buy when the price is right. We'll keep dropping daily / weekly until the stadium is sold out.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
The bold part is patently absurd. Fleck has given us one crappy season. The four coaches you mentioned gave us 14 seasons that were better than Fleck's one. It's fine to be optimistic if you think Fleck has us on the right track and will take us to new heights, but I am getting so sick of us trying to crap on everything that's happened before just to try to make Fleck look better by comparison. Of Kill, Claeys, Brewster, Mason, and Fleck, maybe we should wait until he has the highest single season win total of anyone on that list before we anoint him the greatest ever.
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I find this astounding and this is the problem.
There has never been a better time to be proud of the football program. Highest grades, community service, young team, highly rated recruits. Complete 180 in public perception.

Yet half of our fan base such as yourself and various other posters feel it's been a wasted 18 months or don't see anything positive from Fleck.
If the Gophers are trying to sell to people like this, they won't ever win unless if they sabotage themselves by firing their own staff.

Or else, they need to win a Rose Bowl, and you'll be buying the tickets the year AFTER the Rose Bowl.
 

Face The Facts said:
I find this astounding and this is the problem.
There has never been a better time to be proud of the football program. Highest grades, community service, young team, highly rated recruits. Complete 180 in public perception.

Yet half of our fan base such as yourself and various other posters feel it's been a wasted 18 months or don't see anything positive from Fleck.
If the Gophers are trying to sell to people like this, they won't ever win unless if they sabotage themselves by firing their own staff.

Or else, they need to win a Rose Bowl, and you'll be buying the tickets the year AFTER the Rose Bowl.
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They are selling just fine to me, I still have my season tickets. I didn't say I don't see anything positive from Fleck. I said that it is ridiculous, after one 5-7 season, to assert that he has done more than the previous four coaches (one of whom had a 10 win season) combined.
 

Face The Facts said:
I find this astounding and this is the problem.
There has never been a better time to be proud of the football program. Highest grades, community service, young team, highly rated recruits. Complete 180 in public perception.

Yet half of our fan base such as yourself and various other posters feel it's been a wasted 18 months or don't see anything positive from Fleck.
If the Gophers are trying to sell to people like this, they won't ever win unless if they sabotage themselves by firing their own staff.

Or else, they need to win a Rose Bowl, and you'll be buying the tickets the year AFTER the Rose Bowl.
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You’re delusional
Nobody, I repeat nobody has said it has been a waste of 18 months.
PJ has improved the already high academics which is a great thing. He has promoted the community service that the players do-other staffs had the kids doing that as well, they just didn’t promote it as much. He has brought in some recruits that the recruiting sites like and increased our ranking. Which many others have stated, including those who don’t support all the RTB stuff that has superseded the U of M, Golden Gophers and Ski-U-Mah.
The slogan is a great story, but it is not the U of M’s, and it should not be more or equally as prominent on any official Gopher Football gear.
PJ walked into a great situation with an almost new stadium, a soon to be finished Athletes Village at the time of his signing and a team that had some success prior to him being here and good character players for the most part.
He’s also been given the largest contract ever for a HC and more support from the admin than any of the previous coaches ever had.
Win some more games and not have games like the last two they played and the support will be there.


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My mind is all over the place on this subject. Here are few of the acrobatic thoughts going around in my head....

For most fans you can get good seats at a reasonable price and skip the donation cost and not worry what to do with unused tickets for the couple of games you can't use.

If and when the demand rises, you can always buy tickets again.

The RTB and the rest of the jargons can get a little old, but then again PJ is different. Minnesota needs different because we haven't been relevant since the 1960's. The definition of insanity says we need to do something different and PJ, he is different.

Recruiting has certainly been upgraded.

Fleck is a marketing machine and it is most important that his target group is 17 - 22 year olds that buy his schtick. Us old farts really just want winning football, we don't cope with different very well even though we should be embracing different.

If I lived in Minnesota I would be at the games, but getting there from Houston has just been too difficult. I like our chances this year, I am sticking with 7/8 wins and wishing PJ all the best.
 

.
Win some more games and not have games like the last two they played and the support will be there.


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That last quote nailed it. The passive fans will back Fleck if he starts winning some games that matter, and they will forget that they find his sales pitch to be beyond comical.


Fleck has done nothing so far, and not many are buying the PR BS. The ticket sales story this week laid it out clearly: all the snake oii/ Lou Holtz BS in the world is not going to matter if you do not win.

Maybe the 17 year old kids swallow all the PJ Snake Oil, but the buying public clearly does not, even though there is a lead time involved with the recruits pay9ing off.

Strangely enough slimey Lou Holtz won people over right away and had an not so great first season, yet PJ Fleck apparently has won very few new fans over at this point relative to Lou Holtz at least.

I think the money grab that Norwood and our great Regents put through after the 2014 season is to more of the problem. That "donation' cash grab turned a lot of us off and many walked away from our season tickets, even though I still go to every game.

Our visionary AD Coyle should have done more than stop the last year of the donation rampage and reversed all of it to stop the bleeding when he could. Well, he did not and look at the numbers now; horrible. So here we now, looking at Red Baron $10 pizza purchase equals two tickets to a game territory. All of our rivals are mocking this deal, and if I just paid $2100 for my old two season tickets that used to cost $850 in 2014 I'd be super pissed.

Totally F'ed up
 
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I get that Row the Boat is personal to Fleck. And that's the point. It's personal to Fleck. Not to the U of MN. Fleck used RTB at his previous school. If, some day, he leaves MN for another job, he'll use RTB at that school. It's not a "Gopher" slogan, it's a "Fleck" slogan.

I stipulate that he's sincere, and means well. But, the U of MN has been playing football for over 100 years. There was a Gopher FB program before Fleck, and there will be a Gopher FB program after Fleck. My loyalty is to the school and the program. Coaches come and go.
 

GFBfan said:
You’re delusional
Nobody, I repeat nobody has said it has been a waste of 18 months.
PJ has improved the already high academics which is a great thing. He has promoted the community service that the players do-other staffs had the kids doing that as well, they just didn’t promote it as much. He has brought in some recruits that the recruiting sites like and increased our ranking. Which many others have stated, including those who don’t support all the RTB stuff that has superseded the U of M, Golden Gophers and Ski-U-Mah.
The slogan is a great story, but it is not the U of M’s, and it should not be more or equally as prominent on any official Gopher Football gear.
PJ walked into a great situation with an almost new stadium, a soon to be finished Athletes Village at the time of his signing and a team that had some success prior to him being here and good character players for the most part.
He’s also been given the largest contract ever for a HC and more support from the admin than any of the previous coaches ever had.
Win some more games and not have games like the last two they played and the support will be there.


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This guy gets it.


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GFBfan said:
You’re delusional
Nobody, I repeat nobody has said it has been a waste of 18 months.
PJ has improved the already high academics which is a great thing. He has promoted the community service that the players do-other staffs had the kids doing that as well, they just didn’t promote it as much. He has brought in some recruits that the recruiting sites like and increased our ranking. Which many others have stated, including those who don’t support all the RTB stuff that has superseded the U of M, Golden Gophers and Ski-U-Mah.
The slogan is a great story, but it is not the U of M’s, and it should not be more or equally as prominent on any official Gopher Football gear.
PJ walked into a great situation with an almost new stadium, a soon to be finished Athletes Village at the time of his signing and a team that had some success prior to him being here and good character players for the most part.
He’s also been given the largest contract ever for a HC and more support from the admin than any of the previous coaches ever had.
Win some more games and not have games like the last two they played and the support will be there.


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Again, how so? PJ says Ski-U-Mah constantly with RTB, and far more than any coaching staff that I can remember. RTB can be tied to Ski-U-Mah just as much as Brick by Brick can be tied to Memorial stadium. At least RTB is currently only tied to PJ and the University of Minnesota where as Brick by Brick has been, and continues to be used by other teams. Yet there's the continued outrage that RTB is tied into our uniforms when there was almost none for Brick by Brick.
 

Lou Holtz had a losing record at Minnesota.

He finished 10-12

First season 4-7
Second season 6-5

Teams Lou Holtz beat:

1984
Rice
Indiana
Wisconsin
Iowa

1985
Wichita St
Montana
Purdue
Northwestern
Indiana
Wisconsin
 
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Lou Holtz might have done more to hurt the U of M, jading fans for decades, than help the program.
 

1. Be competitive in the rivalry games. Nobody wants to get mocked by their a-hole buddy who went to Iowa or Wisc- or any of their fans at the game for that matter.

2. Stop the stupid clear plastic bag thing. The hassle factor of getting into the game dramtically impacts when the crowd gets full force-and contributes to an overal annoying game-day experince. Not to mention it is almost impossible to take young kids to the games on account of the gear you'd want to bring with and of course the ticket prices.

3. While I love the Thursday night opener, it is ALSO the opener for most high school football teams in this state. So you lose all of high school athletes and their families right out the gate. That needs to change.

4. Bring back at least one marquee non-conference game. USC, TCU- its the one thing Brewster pushed for that he was right about. We aren't going to get enthusiam for this squad watching them play directional state U during all the best weather games.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Again, how so? PJ says Ski-U-Mah constantly with RTB, and far more than any coaching staff that I can remember. RTB can be tied to Ski-U-Mah just as much as Brick by Brick can be tied to Memorial stadium. At least RTB is currently only tied to PJ and the University of Minnesota where as Brick by Brick has been, and continues to be used by other teams. Yet there's the continued outrage that RTB is tied into our uniforms when there was almost none for Brick by Brick.
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RTB is Fleck's personal brand. He owns the brand, and will take it wherever he goes. It's just part of the deal, when you sign Fleck. That's how he runs his program, so you either live with it, or you find someone else.

As I've said many times, IF he wins ... then he can run around the field naked for all I care. Just win
 

grumps said:
Lou Holtz had a losing record at Minnesota.

He finished 10-12

First season 4-7
Second season 6-5

Teams Lou Holtz beat:

1984
Rice
Indiana
Wisconsin
Iowa

1985
Wichita St
Montana
Purdue
Northwestern
Indiana
Wisconsin
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That carpet bagger got us sold before he skipped town for Notre Dame. It was like the air being sucked out of your lungs. He could sell a used coffin.

I wonder what could have been had he stayed for four years. At least help rebuild the Gophers ' foundation for the next coach.
 

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hungan1 said:
That carpet bagger got us sold before he skipped town for Notre Dame. It was like the air being sucked out of your lungs. He could sell a used coffin.

I wonder what could have been had he stayed for four years. At least help rebuild the Gophers ' foundation for the next coach.
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The negative impact he had is immeasurable.
Since then our fanbase has been scarred for 30 years expecting any good coach to leave at the drop of a hat.
People have been jaded and afraid to commit to Gopher sports.
 

The scholarship seating fiasco did by far the most damage to season ticket base, in my opinion. The season ticket base had yearly ebbs and flows based on things like winning, excitement over new stadium, etc. But the core group was always there. Many lasted through the frustration of the Mason years (so close to a championship but multiple last minute collapses and come from ahead defeats) and of course the disastrous Brewster regime. TCF Bank Stadium did create a spike and that spike quickly wore off thanks to the Brewster crater, but again, most of the long time season ticket holders remained steady, even as an unheralded coach in the form of Jerry Kill was hired. Then along came the donation seating plan. MANY long time season ticket holders I know marked that as the final straw and dropped their seats regardless of where the team was headed. Then, there was an unfortunate ripple effect. Suddenly many other long term ticket holders lost their neighbors and the prospect of renewing their seats didn't seem important, so the drop continued. As others have stated, once a season ticket holder is lost, especially a long term ticket holder - it is very tough to get them back because they discover their Saturdays no longer have to be tied down. They do other stuff. Meanwhile, the drop continues to ripple as yet others have said: People with season tickets can no longer expect to break even when they sell their tickets because the secondary market is awash with cheap discounts. So, being a season ticket holder sometimes means paying more for seats that other are getting for far less. That conspires to be the exact opposite of a season ticket holder perk. The problems are much more complex than simply "win, and they will come."

Its a shame, because many of my favorite memories are of games when the stadium was full. I'm still on board with my tickets and I hope things rebound and a math formula is found where the athletic department can make a buck AND the seats are full.

While agree that the price for football, basketball, and hockey tickets are probably too high for this market, I also think there are other problems that U could address. There needs to be a big non-reserved tailgate lot. Tailgating helps to insulate against losing seasons and makes the event more fun for many people that aren't diehard football fans. The start times are also a hassle. It is very hard to plan to attend games when you don't know when they will kickoff until just a couple weeks before the games are played. The LONG waits for video reviews and forced TV timeouts also detract from the in-person experience. Those TV timeouts are important for the big TV cash cow but they help to make the experience of going to the game a diminished one. It isn't just HD widescreens. The game has evolved in multiple ways to cater to TV over in-stadium viewing. It will be hard if not impossible to get the money genie back in the bottle.
 

I kind of wonder if the past few years have just been a sort of "perfect storm" for this to happen. Ticket price increases, the up and down seasons for basketball and moving from the WCHA to the Big Ten in hockey have all taken place over the past several years. Maybe things just have to stabilize?
 

"Strangely enough slimey Lou Holtz won people over right away and had an not so great first season, yet PJ Fleck apparently has won very few new fans over at this point relative to Lou Holtz at least."


Don't underestimate the impact of 30 more years post Holtz of (for the most part) terrible football with this program.

Coaches make the program, period. That's why when you have an elite one, you do all you can to retain them. Even if it means covering for their covering of their wife-beating staff.

I am a season ticket holder and no, I don't appreciate paying more for tickets than what you can pick them off the street for. However, with this program, you have to try to market to bring people in while attempting to win. I appreciate the attempts at the Gopher Loyalty and offering incentives to get more people to attend. If the winning and incentives were to coincide, you would not see the ticket deals you see today. That's the idea, I think.
 
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My daughter doesn't want to go to Gopher games with me any more. It will be so much of a hassle with the baby now and having to put everything in plastic bags. It is too long for my grand kids to drive there, park, wait in line, and then wait too long for traffic to go back home. Particularly, night games are tougher. Ideally, you'd want an afternoon game. It is not a very friendly young family experience.

There. You lose potential future Gopher football fans.

It would have been fun if they expanded the tail gating, and have something setup up more things for kids to do. We would've come early and enjoy the festivities. It is not as enjoyable an experience according to my daughter. They'd rather go to a Saints game.

One thing that will make going to the game more palatable is to have organized designated Gopher Shuttles from the suburbs or the interstate Park N Rides. When you order your tickets online, you can purchase a shuttle ticket at the same time. This will minimize the traffic bottleneck to some degree, and help move crowds in and out of the games without the hassle of having to find parking.
 
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