Staff composition is recruiting/retention trouble

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Why does the "Elephant"....

in the room have to be white?? What's up with that.
 

Black or white, I don't really care.

I just wanted this staff to not have any Kevin Cosgroves.
 

I just wish that the players would judge the new coaches by the quality of their character, not by the color of their skin. I guess that must make me a racist.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Black or white, I don't really care.

I just wanted this staff to not have any Kevin Cosgroves.
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He was probably kept because of his B10 experience. If this is all true, of course.
 



Maybe as a condition of Nebraska joining the conference Cosgrove must always be employed by one of their Legend division oppenents as a punishment for crimes comitted against their fan base?
 


Did Cosgrove have much of a hand in the recruiting?
Could this be a reason that he is being retained.
 

I think he was heavily involved in recruiting the twins out of Illinois, but other on here know better.
 



PBR...or pigmentation-based rhetoric....is ridiculous at best.

Give me the best people for the job. Period.
 

dinkything said:
nitro--your post reflects a tremendous amount of ignorance:eek:
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How so? You can sit there and pretend to know everything a black person feels about a mostly white coaching staff. That's all great, but it doesn't mean you are correct in any way.
 

By accounts I have read, Cosgrove has some good recruiting ties in Illinois and Missouri.
 

metrolax said:
PBR...or pigmentation-based rhetoric....is ridiculous at best.

Give me the best people for the job. Period.
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I don't really care about this debate, the most annoying thing on this entire thread was that there are rumors about Kevin Cosgrove being retained.

However, just playing devil's advocate...

What if an african american coach might be better able to relate to certain players and might also have an advantage recruiting? Should race factor at that point?

I'm not saying that an african american coach would, I am just putting the question out there...
 



About half the responses in this thread show exactly why many African-American players would prefer to play some place that has a decent number African-American coaches that can understand that there are some significant differences between the White and Black American experiences. Many people seem to be under the odd impression that racism still isn't a significant factor in America and that any complaints of racism or lack of diversity is playing the "Race Card". Implying that it's racist for players to want at least a few African-American coaches on the staff when over 50% of all college players are African-American is ridiculous.
 

Jeshurun said:
I just wish that the players would judge the new coaches by the quality of their character, not by the color of their skin. I guess that must make me a racist.
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:clap::clap::clap:
 

So that's how Tubbys lands all those 5 star recruits.....oh wait..
 

GG Allen said:
About half the responses in this thread show exactly why many African-American players would prefer to play some place that has a decent number African-American coaches that can understand that there are some significant differences between the White and Black American experiences. Many people seem to be under the odd impression that racism still isn't a significant factor in America and that any complaints of racism or lack of diversity is playing the "Race Card". Implying that it's racist for players to want at least a few African-American coaches on the staff when over 50% of all college players are African-American is ridiculous.
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Considering we have a black president.. The race care is moot. It doesn't exist.

There will ALWAYS be differences between the white and black American experiences. There's even more differences between the Native American and the white experiences. Does that mean we have to 'atone' for our sins for eternity? Or is there a set time frame that is universally justified and agreed upon where we have to 'atone' for said sins?

Dumbest thread.

Ever.
 

50PoundHead said:
By accounts I have read, Cosgrove has some good recruiting ties in Illinois and Missouri.
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Yeah, Cosgrove seems to recruit Illinois pretty well and he does have some contacts in MN also. If you look at his "targets" this season, almost every one of the kids is from Illinois.

It would seem to me that he wouldn't be retained primarily for his recruiting ability as he best recruits areas that we can presume our staff already has decent connections (Illinois).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
What if an african american coach might be better able to relate to certain players and might also have an advantage recruiting? Should race factor at that point?

I'm not saying that an african american coach would, I am just putting the question out there...
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There's no doubt in my mind that this is the case in some, if not many, instances. Doesn't make it right. Hiring a black coach to get all 'dem blackies' to play for your team makes you more of a racist than hiring the best guy for the job to get the BEST kids for the system.

Notice how the second part didn't involve the color of anyone's skin. I like that part more so.
 

Formo said:
Considering we have a black president.. The race care is moot. It doesn't exist.

There will ALWAYS be differences between the white and black American experiences. There's even more differences between the Native American and the white experiences. Does that mean we have to 'atone' for our sins for eternity? Or is there a set time frame that is universally justified and agreed upon where we have to 'atone' for said sins?

Dumbest thread.

Ever.
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I don't think he is saying that anyone needs to atone for anything. I think he is saying that because black and white americans have different life experiences that it might be appealing to some African American student athletes to be surrounded by coaches with similar life experiences. The argument being made isn't that we should hire African Americans because we feel bad about how they were treated, they are saying that it might be beneficial to the U of MN football team to stress diversity. It isn't a question of atonement...
 

Maybe if some of those coaches had gotten better results, they would be staying. Our dline was pathetic this past year.
 

Formo said:
There's no doubt in my mind that this is the case in some, if not many, instances. Doesn't make it right. Hiring a black coach to get all 'dem blackies' to play for your team makes you more of a racist than hiring the best guy for the job to get the BEST kids for the system.

Notice how the second part didn't involve the color of anyone's skin. I like that part more so.
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I'm not saying it makes it right.

Someone made the statement that they simply want the best guy for the job. It would seem that the ability to recruit and make a chunk of players comfortable who otherwise wouldn't be, would be a factor in who is the "best guy for the job".
 

I'm white. If I were playing for a team, and decided to transfer when a new coaching staff came in and there was only one white guy on the staff, wouldn't that be racist? If that is racist, why wouldn't the reverse be true?
 

GG Allen said:
About half the responses in this thread show exactly why many African-American players would prefer to play some place that has a decent number African-American coaches that can understand that there are some significant differences between the White and Black American experiences. Many people seem to be under the odd impression that racism still isn't a significant factor in America and that any complaints of racism or lack of diversity is playing the "Race Card". Implying that it's racist for players to want at least a few African-American coaches on the staff when over 50% of all college players are African-American is ridiculous.
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So if a black coach was hired & our his new staff was mostly black how would you feel about white players saying they don't want to play for the black coaches because they feel more comfortable with white people? You would see that as perfectly normal?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm not saying it makes it right.

Someone made the statement that they simply want the best guy for the job. It would seem that the ability to recruit and make a chunk of players comfortable who otherwise wouldn't be, would be a factor in who is the "best guy for the job".
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Pretty much, we're dealing with attracting 17 and 18 year old kids to the program and they're going to go with the staff that makes them feel the most comfortable. Race is still going to be a factor in that, especially when we are going to try and recruit players from areas that have much larger African-American populations than Minnesota does. No ones saying the whole staff needs to be African-American, but there is no reason a school like Minnesota can't have a diverse staff.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
So if a black coach was hired & our his new staff was mostly black how would you feel about white players saying they don't want to play for the black coaches because they feel more comfortable with white people? You would see that as perfectly normal?
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Do you think a lot of White kids from Hibbing are signing up to play for historically black colleges and their mostly Black coaching staffs?
 

Nothing like a bunch of mostly white Minnesotans offering a critque of race in America....

Just stop for a second and think: is it possible that the experience of being a black person in Minnesota is substantially different than being a white person in Minnesota? And, if so, might it be important to have some mentors who understand first-hand how to deal with that experience?

I get that we're all aspiring to be race neutral in our decisions and sing Koombayah around the campfire; but the fact is, we're not there. This does not mean all of us white people are a bunch of racists. It just means we need to consider that black players and recruits (and their parents) are going to be looking to a coach or coaches as a mentor to help make the adjustment to a mostly white campus and metropolitan area. It stands to reason that a black coach may be better equipped from an experiential standpoint to play that role than a middle-aged white guy. The OP is simply making that point and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's up to Kill to ensure his staff can provide that support.
 

MNRideorDieChick said:
New coaches (minus DL) were introduced to the team last night. What many black players walked away talking about was the lack of racial diversity on the new staff. With all of Kill's talk about "his guys who have been with him for a long time," what does it mean when neither of the two black coaches on his previous staff are coming to MN? What will it mean when Tommy Hammock is the only black coach retained from Brew's staff? What does it mean when one of the least effective or respected coaches, Cosgrove, is kept, but super-recruiters like Cross are gone? What does it say about Kill when he doesn't understand that black parents want their sons to be surrounded by a coaching staff that not only understands football, but relates to the life experiences their sons are having? What is the message this new staff sends to black players about how Kill is a "player's coach?" Which players? No black coaches on defense? Seriously? Is this 1965?

The players won't say it in interviews, because they know it is not PC, but this all white + Hammock staff is disappointing and shows that Kill is clueless about recruiting elite black players. Talk about a bad first impression. Maybe Kill didn't understand that this is the BT. One of the first things that black families look at when a college contacts their son is the composition of the staff. I suspect that a good number of current black players would never have come to MN to play for this new staff (especially with no proven track record of success at this level). Good luck with that "speed" recruiting plan.

I'm sure I'll be unpopular for pointing out the new "white" elephant, but what the hell. So glad that Maturi is helping our new coach understand these important issues. :(
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Coach Boone: Well I'm not going to cut 'em and eat 'em. The best player will play, color won't matter.

<IMG SRC="http://www.zuguide.com/image/Denzel-Washington-Remember-the-Titans.1.jpg">

I suck at HTML & can't get the image to work, but maybe those guys should all sit down & watch Remember the Titans together?
 

GG Allen said:
Do you think a lot of White kids from Hibbing are signing up to play for historically black colleges and their mostly Black coaching staffs?
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Way to completely avoid answering my question.
 

FrothyGopher said:
Nothing like a bunch of mostly white Minnesotans offering a critque of race in America....

Just stop for a second and think: is it possible that the experience of being a black person in Minnesota is substantially different than being a white person in Minnesota? And, if so, might it be important to have some mentors who understand first-hand how to deal with that experience?

I get that we're all aspiring to be race neutral in our decisions and sing Koombayah around the campfire; but the fact is, we're not there. This does not mean all of us white people are a bunch of racists. It just means we need to consider that black players and recruits (and their parents) are going to be looking to a coach or coaches as a mentor to help make the adjustment to a mostly white campus and metropolitan area. It stands to reason that a black coach may be better equipped from an experiential standpoint to play that role than a middle-aged white guy. The OP is simply making that point and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's up to Kill to ensure his staff can provide that support.
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I get what your saying, and I mostly agree, but the insinuation from the original post was that Cosgrove was being kept, the black coaches weren't, with an assumption that all else must be equal and thus the black coaches should have been because they relate better to the black players. Fair point by the OP, but if in fact true (that Cosgrove is being kept), how do we know all else is equal?

I don't like Cosgrove, and I consider our D-Line to be some of the biggest underachievers on the entire D. Where were they the entire year before the Iowa game? How many sacks did we have all year? Five? Six? That's absolutely pathetic, and is a reflection on the whole group.

Frankly, I don't want anyone from the staff back except perhaps Hammock, but as I've posted in other threads, I don't know if he would want to stick for a long time (aspirations to go higher (future OC/HC), which he SHOULD have).

I can't speak for the current kids on the team, but recruits will be able to make up their own minds as to whether or not they see a race issue with the Gophers. Based upon the incredible testimonials others (Larry English and Brandon Jacobs to name two) have given for Kill and his staff since the hire, I doubt they will feel there is, but if so, one of the reasons this is the greatest country in the world is because they are free to go somewhere else.
 

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