Staff composition is recruiting/retention trouble

Donate To GopherHole
The ultimate goal is the have a staff that is diverse, great role models, and can coach. I trust Kill can do this. How can one put a number on it, I don't know.

If you want numbers though, Auburn is the only BCS Championship Bowl game team with more than 3 coaches of color.

Auburn- 5
UCONN -3
OSU- 3
Wisconsin- 3
Arkansas- 2
Stanford -2
TCU - 2
Oregon -2
 

MNRideorDieChick said:
New coaches (minus DL) were introduced to the team last night. What many black players walked away talking about was the lack of racial diversity on the new staff. With all of Kill's talk about "his guys who have been with him for a long time," what does it mean when neither of the two black coaches on his previous staff are coming to MN? What will it mean when Tommy Hammock is the only black coach retained from Brew's staff? What does it mean when one of the least effective or respected coaches, Cosgrove, is kept, but super-recruiters like Cross are gone? What does it say about Kill when he doesn't understand that black parents want their sons to be surrounded by a coaching staff that not only understands football, but relates to the life experiences their sons are having? What is the message this new staff sends to black players about how Kill is a "player's coach?" Which players? No black coaches on defense? Seriously? Is this 1965?

The players won't say it in interviews, because they know it is not PC, but this all white + Hammock staff is disappointing and shows that Kill is clueless about recruiting elite black players. Talk about a bad first impression. Maybe Kill didn't understand that this is the BT. One of the first things that black families look at when a college contacts their son is the composition of the staff. I suspect that a good number of current black players would never have come to MN to play for this new staff (especially with no proven track record of success at this level). Good luck with that "speed" recruiting plan.

I'm sure I'll be unpopular for pointing out the new "white" elephant, but what the hell. So glad that Maturi is helping our new coach understand these important issues. :(
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with "diversity" although some will use that word for misdirection or out of ignorance. "Diversity" would be a couple whites, a Latino or two, a woman, a Pacific Islander, a Somali, a black, a gay & an American Indian. This just sounds like players on the D who liked their coaches (They don't need best friends, they need coaches) & flat out racism by some players. Judging coaches by the color of their skin is racism (even if it's white people being discriminated against), plain & simple.

It also appears Coach Cross is the Tim Brewster of DL coaches. Motivational speaker who's too close to the players & can't coach a lick. While losing a buddy hurts, the players should be glad he's gone for their own sakes. If there's one group who's talent has not been realized it's the DL. Edwards could be All-Big 10 if someone pushed him & got him to work instead of letting him spend his days posting on Facebook posting about how much he drinks, all the weed he smokes & all the bitches/hos/tricks he bangs. Kirksey played ok, but I think he's capable of more. Jacobs, Hageman, KGM, Wilhite & Garin have all been underwhelming thus far. I don't know everything about N Illinois DL coach but I remember the best DE we faced a couple years ago was the guy from N Illinois hands down. That guy's in the NFL today, our guys aren't.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I don't know everything about N Illinois DL coach.
Click to expand...

He's a black guy named Jeff Phelps. One would assume he's coming along with the rest, but I have no idea if he is or not. Maybe not, according the OP, who says there will be only one black coach on staff.

1245843.jpeg
 

1- Cross and Lee both proved to be poor coaches. Hammock and Lewis both are pretty good coaches in my opinion.
2- If I recall correctly the OP is a relative of a player, possibly a mother or sister so there's some reason to believe she may be correct on some parts whether its the actual coaches or the player's feelings
3- If she is in fact reporting the player's feelings then all of you are just wasting your breath trying to say how someone else SHOULD feel about something. It is silly as you don't share their same worldview or experiences. That said, that doesn't mean that (if they feel that way) that their thought process isn't immature or misguided.
4- For the issue as a whole, remember that Brewster and staff used their diversity as a major selling point. This means that kids/parents who chose the you in some part due to the diversity and makeup of the staff and those kid's relationships with those coaches are undoubtedly going to be a bit upset and taken aback by such a drastic change from young, early 30's black males as their coaches (that they may view as father figures or mentors) to older, white coaches they immediately think they can't relate to. Again, I'm not saying this is the best way to think but these are kids that just lost their coaches and parents that are dealing with the coaches they trusted to coach/look out for their kids are being axed and for guys who's book covers are completely different.

In conclusion, get off the OP's back. You can't get mad whenever black kids talk about race. Its a huge part of their identity and their world view and whether you like it or not it's a legit issue many people take into consideration. That doesn't mean they're right but acting all self righteous about it when it's brought up makes you appear just as silly. Eventually these kids/parents will either accept or not accept these coaches based on who they are as coaches and men and get past the racial aspect of it, but they are kids who were sold the opportunity to play for coaches they felt they could relate to and are dealing with that now
 

All players also have to understand that if they suck, all coaches will get fired and a new staff will be brought in. It's a teachable moment for the U, the players, and their parents.

Maybe a website called savecurrentgopherfootball could be started.
 


badgergopher said:
One thng it might mean with Cosgrove being retained is that coach has a heart. Maybe he said we'll try this guy for a year so that he keeps his health insurance until his son is healthy again.
Click to expand...
His kid should already be covered... even if not, Cosgrove is a millionaire anyway if he has been saving even a fraction of his earnings over the years... in lieu of that, I guess it's nice to know our coach is putting the financial well being of our dog vomit DC ahead of the success of the team.
 

The U could simply pay Cosgrove's insurance premium if they wanted.
 


I knew this was coming...I looked at his coaching staff the night he was hired and had the thought "OK but their all white"...now that's all well and dandy but when you have a team that's over half black idk. I guess if their are players who pick up and leave just based on the race of their new coaches then maybe we don't need them on our team anyway if that is one of their #1 priorities. Never the less I would like to see some diversity in the coaching stuff I think it would help...but its not everything. If we win games who the hell cares what race anyone is.
 



oleboy41 said:
1- Cross and Lee both proved to be poor coaches. Hammock and Lewis both are pretty good coaches in my opinion.
2- If I recall correctly the OP is a relative of a player, possibly a mother or sister so there's some reason to believe she may be correct on some parts whether its the actual coaches or the player's feelings
3- If she is in fact reporting the player's feelings then all of you are just wasting your breath trying to say how someone else SHOULD feel about something. It is silly as you don't share their same worldview or experiences. That said, that doesn't mean that (if they feel that way) that their thought process isn't immature or misguided.
4- For the issue as a whole, remember that Brewster and staff used their diversity as a major selling point. This means that kids/parents who chose the you in some part due to the diversity and makeup of the staff and those kid's relationships with those coaches are undoubtedly going to be a bit upset and taken aback by such a drastic change from young, early 30's black males as their coaches (that they may view as father figures or mentors) to older, white coaches they immediately think they can't relate to. Again, I'm not saying this is the best way to think but these are kids that just lost their coaches and parents that are dealing with the coaches they trusted to coach/look out for their kids are being axed and for guys who's book covers are completely different.

In conclusion, get off the OP's back. You can't get mad whenever black kids talk about race. Its a huge part of their identity and their world view and whether you like it or not it's a legit issue many people take into consideration. That doesn't mean they're right but acting all self righteous about it when it's brought up makes you appear just as silly. Eventually these kids/parents will either accept or not accept these coaches based on who they are as coaches and men and get past the racial aspect of it, but they are kids who were sold the opportunity to play for coaches they felt they could relate to and are dealing with that now
Click to expand...

Dead on! It is what it is. How the staff deals with it is the important part.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
This has nothing to do with "diversity" although some will use that word for misdirection or out of ignorance. "Diversity" would be a couple whites, a Latino or two, a woman, a Pacific Islander, a Somali, a black, a gay & an American Indian. This just sounds like players on the D who liked their coaches (They don't need best friends, they need coaches) & flat out racism by some players. Judging coaches by the color of their skin is racism (even if it's white people being discriminated against), plain & simple.

It also appears Coach Cross is the Tim Brewster of DL coaches. Motivational speaker who's too close to the players & can't coach a lick. While losing a buddy hurts, the players should be glad he's gone for their own sakes. If there's one group who's talent has not been realized it's the DL. Edwards could be All-Big 10 if someone pushed him & got him to work instead of letting him spend his days posting on Facebook posting about how much he drinks, all the weed he smokes & all the bitches/hos/tricks he bangs. Kirksey played ok, but I think he's capable of more. Jacobs, Hageman, KGM, Wilhite & Garin have all been underwhelming thus far. I don't know everything about N Illinois DL coach but I remember the best DE we faced a couple years ago was the guy from N Illinois hands down. That guy's in the NFL today, our guys aren't.
Click to expand...

Well said, sir.

This is the first wave of reaction/backlash from the current players that weren't happy about their favorite coach (black or white) being retained. Throwing an ethnic spin on it makes it appear a lot less like whining to them, more than likely, and they probably also think with that angle people will be more likely to have to listen.

Don't forget this is a painful time of the year for a lot of the players. These guys spend an ENORMOUS amount of time with these position coaches and seeing them get tossed to the curb by the new regime is a horrible dose of reality for which they were likely not prepared.

Players being upset was to be expected. I'd be very disappointed if they WEREN'T upset to see their old coaches go. If what has been mentioned is true, it's unfortunate that some players decided to spin it with race.
 

oleboy41 said:
1- Cross and Lee both proved to be poor coaches. Hammock and Lewis both are pretty good coaches in my opinion.
2- If I recall correctly the OP is a relative of a player, possibly a mother or sister so there's some reason to believe she may be correct on some parts whether its the actual coaches or the player's feelings
3- If she is in fact reporting the player's feelings then all of you are just wasting your breath trying to say how someone else SHOULD feel about something. It is silly as you don't share their same worldview or experiences. That said, that doesn't mean that (if they feel that way) that their thought process isn't immature or misguided.
4- For the issue as a whole, remember that Brewster and staff used their diversity as a major selling point. This means that kids/parents who chose the you in some part due to the diversity and makeup of the staff and those kid's relationships with those coaches are undoubtedly going to be a bit upset and taken aback by such a drastic change from young, early 30's black males as their coaches (that they may view as father figures or mentors) to older, white coaches they immediately think they can't relate to. Again, I'm not saying this is the best way to think but these are kids that just lost their coaches and parents that are dealing with the coaches they trusted to coach/look out for their kids are being axed and for guys who's book covers are completely different.

In conclusion, get off the OP's back. You can't get mad whenever black kids talk about race. Its a huge part of their identity and their world view and whether you like it or not it's a legit issue many people take into consideration. That doesn't mean they're right but acting all self righteous about it when it's brought up makes you appear just as silly. Eventually these kids/parents will either accept or not accept these coaches based on who they are as coaches and men and get past the racial aspect of it, but they are kids who were sold the opportunity to play for coaches they felt they could relate to and are dealing with that now
Click to expand...

+1

You can sputter about it all you want, but it's a factor, right or wrong, and nothing wrong in noting that.
 

MNRideOrDieChick has always provided good information to us, so quit jumping all over her for relaying what she knows to be true. Whether you like what she has to say is another thing, but this board is made for people like her to come on here and provide info we wouldn't get elsewhere. She has always been honest (and correct) in the past, so why chase her away???

Now, you may not agree with the players feeling this way, but wake up, this exists in society, people feel more comfortable with people more like them and who have been through more similar experiences ----> SHOCKING!! Hopefully these feelings subside and they would rather be coached by coaches who know football as opposed to coaches who don't (know as much), but I guess we will wait to see. In the end the ones that leave because of this were not committed to being the best football player they can be and would rather have "friends" than coaches. Not a big deal if they decide to leave anyways, and I'm guessing the majority of the good ones won't base their decision off this.

One thing these players probably don't want to hear are 30 something white guys from this board who have lived in MN their whole lives telling them how stupid they are for having these feelings.
 



They have a reason to be upset and question what may happen with the staff, but in reality they have to accept who the new coaches are or move on.

Remember, the new staff will be recruiting whomever they want in the future, black or white. Those that commit to the new staff will be doing so on the merits of the school and the coaching staff. If they have a issue, then they won't come. It is as easy as that.
 

sonnygarcia said:
One thing these players probably don't want to hear are 30 something white guys from this board who have lived in MN their whole lives telling them how stupid they are for having these feelings.
Click to expand...

Whenever I talk about how great MN is, my wife(who is not from here) always says, "Spoken like somone that has never lived outside MN."
 

I agree with the general premise that the firing of certain coaches (regardless of race) will be a concern to some players and may cause some to transfer. But...that's what happens when we fire a head coach and bring in a new one. An assistant or two will stay...most will be let go. Some players will transfer...most will not.

I hope that cooler heads prevail among the players and they see how things go during the spring as they get to know the new staff before deciding on transfers.
 

SickAndTiredOfLosingToWI said:
in lieu of that, I guess it's nice to know our coach is putting the financial well being of our dog vomit DC ahead of the success of the team.
Click to expand...

Stupid posts like this make you think about not wasting time on GH. You can have a poor opinion of a person, but nobody in this position deserves to be referred to like this. One comment by some dumbass I should ignore but after a while the cumulative effect of this type of stuff gets to a person. (Save me the "this isn't junior high football" crap also, Tough Guy.)
 

Brian Anderson, the Tight Ends coach at NIU is an Afro-American and has been with Coach Kill for nine years. Coach Phelps was retained from the staff at NIU that preceded Coach Kill and, as mentioned, is also African American (has been with Coach K for the past three years). If these two coaches come and Hammock is in fact retained, that would be three African American coaches on staff which seems, according to what others have posted, comparable to other teams in the conference.

MNRideorDieChick, if in fact you are a friend/relative of some players who are sharing their thoughts/opinions with you, tell them to get over it. If they are as fast and "elite" as you/they seem to think they are, their play certainly didn't reflect it (South Dakota, Ohio State, Northwestern, Wisconsin, NORTHERN ILLINOIS, etc, etc, did whatever they wanted against our defense).

So, I ask you, is that the fault of the players or their coaches? If the latter, why should they be retained? Because they are black? That would be more insulting to them than not retaining them.

If the former, then why have they failed so far? If so talented ("elite"), have they not worked hard enough? Been discipline enough? Either way, you better tell your friends/relatives to buckle up. My impression is that if they don't get their act together, they won't be playing regardless of how many "stars" or offers they had out of high school.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Whenever I talk about how great MN is, my wife(who is not from here) always says, "Spoken like somone that has never lived outside MN."
Click to expand...

haha, hey, except for a year living in Chicago and a year in NY I fit that bill too. But I do realize, like most of us do, that such feelings are natural. Instead of attacking someone who would feel this way I think what the coaches will do is acknowledge this, work to show the player they are no different as people (whether white or black). In the end I'm sure the players will sense this from the coaches and change thier minds (hopefully), but such feelings are real and can be overcome quite easily.
 

And if anyone watched NIU play against the Gophers this year, it was as plain as day which team was bigger, faster, stronger, and more physical (not the Maroon and Gold).

I think Coach Kill and staff may have a little more belief (and proof to back it up) in their recruiting abilities than MNRideorDieChick and her sources.
 

Could someone please provice a link where the final staff hirings have been announced. I just haven't seen it, not sure this is even relevant until that is complete.
 

This thread is just mind boggling.

We need the BEST coaches possible, regardless of their race. I don't care about the racial makeup of the staff, I just want competent coaches who can bring out the best in the players.
 

The OP wasn't off base with the concept of her post. The lack of coaches of color in Division I football is frustrating and needs to be attended to. It is an issue and it should be talked about. If I was a player, I think it would be important to me to see coaches who looked like me or understood some of the issues relating to race. (It was a minor reason why I wanted Kevin Sumlin. First, I think he is a motivator, knows the Big Ten and has a gifted mind for offensive football, among other positives. Further down the list I think it would be an asset to players of color to have a man of color as their head coach.)

BUT - how many coaches from the previous era were really that good, regardless of them being black/white? I would say that as few as possible coaches from the previous era should be retained (disappointing that Cosgrove is supposedly one of them).

Just as we looked at Coach Kill and said let's give him a chance, let's see what the assistant coaches are all about before we submarine them based on race. Maybe they are the type of coaches who will build up the current players so that they will want to pursue coaching some day (i.e.: Maybe they will bring Mike Sherels as a grad assistant/volunteer coach, etc.) Maybe they will give coaches of color opportunities other than the coordinator positions, which are two people that Kill has worked with for a very long time.

My point is that while the lack of coaches of color in college football is an issue that needs to be discussed, Jerry Kill shouldn't be put on a cross until we truly know the facts around the entire program. Not every white coach is racist, just as every black coach is not a champion of racial diversity.
 

I like how the OP ignores the fact that Kill obviously wasn't able to attract his black coaches to Minnesota because the demand for black position coaches (i.e. "recruiters") is artificially high.

This is why the problem of there not being enough black coaches may never be solved: People like the OP are too willing to point the finger at the good guys. Meanwhile, no one is willing to call-out functionally racist programs that toss all their entry-level jobs to the sons of their good ol' boys. Those places hire away these guys to avoid embarassment, then have them do nothing but try to land black players, essentially assuring that they never move into the HC ranks.

It looks like Kill's record on working with black coaches is exemplary. And the U has been the origin of an insane number of successful black coaches.

So the question is, Rideordiechick, do you have the courage to take you message somewhere that it's really needed? Not somehwere that people don't want to hear it because it's ridiculous and misplaced, but somewhere that people don't want to hear it because it is true. I suspect the answer is no.
 

If the black players are truely upset over this, wouldnt they all transfer to a school in the SWAC? I am sure they are upset at having position coaches that recurited them and have befriend them now on their way out. I am sure once they have a chance to think about this, their opinoins will change to a degree. Look at how this boards attitude toward Kill changed from the time it was announced until now.
 

has this thread figured out that the coaching staff is not built yet? NIU's bowl game hasn't happened yet. Some current coaches may have been let go but I don't think anyone knows what the final make up will be besides the coordinators and the HC. I hope we get the best possible coaches in each position that have the loyalty that Kill expects.
 

If there is a problem, all of the concerned individuals need to express...

their feelings, concerns as well as their sense of loss of relationships to the staff within their program and at the University of Minnesota. Change is such a hard thing for all of us to deal with, regardless of age and circumstances. There is no reason to fear real feelings and concerns. It is always better to let those feelings be heard so that hopefully, everyone involved can be aware and so that everyone involved can work to be a part of a solution.

Change by it's very nature is a stressful and sometimes freightening thing. Old support systems disappear or at the very best change into new support systems. I would hope that the new coaching staff would be open and willing to discuss concerns of any and all players during this huge period of change for the players who have been in the program for a year...two years or longer. This change is so complete for them. They have worked hard to develop relationships with their old coaches...and now many of those coaches are leaving. This is a real loss for each and every one of these young student athletes.

I honestly believe that any concerns could potentially provide an opportunity for discussion, interaction, problem solving and yes, trust-building.

I hope that any and all players who have any concerns about all the changes going on around them will take the chance to be honest, open and willing to bring their concerns to their new coaches and other support staff that they may be working with at the University of Minnesota.

I believe that many positives could come by initiating communications between players, coaches and support staff at the U of M.

I am sure that there will be many young student athletes at the U of M and at every other college football program in the country that is experiencing a coaching change that are going through a ton of feelings, emotions and sense of loss. Also, not knowing the new people they will work with, it is a very threatening thing when everything around you seems to be changing. People are human. People do have feelings and concerns. Feelings and concerns do need to be addressed. When feelings and concerns are addressed with honesty, integrity and with sincerencess, a whole new bridge to understanding, getting to know another individual, staff, player or a whole team of players can provide a very lasting and potentially a very positive beginning to a player/coach and coach/player relationship.

I firmly believe that this is all a part of "coaching change" experience that so many student athletes and so many coaches do go through. I believe it has the potential to be a very good thing! Good luck and best wishes to all the student athletes and all the coaches in the football program. If everyone has the courage and the willingness to explore the issues and the feelings, this can help to build a very strong program.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
And if anyone watched NIU play against the Gophers this year, it was as plain as day which team was bigger, faster, stronger, and more physical (not the Maroon and Gold).

I think Coach Kill and staff may have a little more belief (and proof to back it up) in their recruiting abilities than MNRideorDieChick and her sources.
Click to expand...

We were bigger, but they were faster, stronger and more physical. Their defensive line really kicked our oline's collective butt.
 

Youg guy's that are jumping over MNrideordiechick do not have a clue

She knows what she is talking about as she knows some of the players. If she is bringing it up than the players have legitimate concerns and really need to have a meeting with the athletic director. Look around people Minnesota is not exactly one of the most diverse places in the world, which can make makes us a less attractive place to people of other cultures or non-whites. The players have raised a valid concern as to the racial make-up of the staff. Like it or not PEOPLE, this is still a reality in this country that race plays a role in hiring and decision making practices. It's not supposed to, most of us really do not have these hang ups at least younger generations, but people can still show favoritism based on race or cultural upbringing. It may not be intentional it, it likely is not intentional but it still does happen in some instanece to deny that is ingnoring it. It is not "racist" for a black player to wonder about "black coaches" because really there parents and family's likely will have the same questions. It is the fear of the unknown when you have a new coach, new managers, new staff all of it. There are legitimate concerns to be raised in any situation like this. Coach Kill and his coaches will have this to deal with as it appears to be a legitimate concern of some of the players. I don't think in any way that this paints coach Kill as any type of racist but it is something that players likely will take into consideration.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
She knows what she is talking about as she knows some of the players. If she is bringing it up than the players have legitimate concerns and really need to have a meeting with the athletic director. Look around people Minnesota is not exactly one of the most diverse places in the world, which can make makes us a less attractive place to people of other cultures or non-whites. The players have raised a valid concern as to the racial make-up of the staff. Like it or not PEOPLE, this is still a reality in this country that race plays a role in hiring and decision making practices. It's not supposed to, most of us really do not have these hang ups at least younger generations, but people can still show favoritism based on race or cultural upbringing. It may not be intentional it, it likely is not intentional but it still does happen in some instanece to deny that is ingnoring it. It is not "racist" for a black player to wonder about "black coaches" because really there parents and family's likely will have the same questions. It is the fear of the unknown when you have a new coach, new managers, new staff all of it. There are legitimate concerns to be raised in any situation like this. Coach Kill and his coaches will have this to deal with as it appears to be a legitimate concern of some of the players. I don't think in any way that this paints coach Kill as any type of racist but it is something that players likely will take into consideration.
Click to expand...


This is so sad. These players are using the same perceptions and excuses and trying to legitimize the exact same thing in themselves that they perceive as wrong with the selection of the staff. So are you.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom