Souhan: Gophers' situation calls for bold step

I always find it funny how fans criticize Mason when the guy had us literally one play away from the Rose Bowl -- which had he done, he'd be a legend here. Instead he's scorned.

After 1999 Mason gave Gopher fans one disappointment after another, a nightmarish record of blowing 2nd half leads to lose big games, and a laundry list of excuses for why he couldn't win in Minnesota. And he spent almost his entire time here trying to find another job. Mason deserves all the scorn that Gopher fans can heap on him.
 

After 1999 Mason gave Gopher fans one disappointment after another and a laundry list of excuses for why he couldn't win in Minnesota. And he spent almost his entire time here trying to find another job. He deserves all the scorn that Gopher fans can heap on him.

And you're delusional.
 



After 1999 Mason gave Gopher fans one disappointment after another, a nightmarish record of blowing 2nd half leads to lose big games, and a laundry list of excuses for why he couldn't win in Minnesota. And he spent almost his entire time here trying to find another job. Mason deserves all the scorn that Gopher fans can heap on him.

I agree & we had nothing to be disappointed about before he came here because we KNEW we weren't good & since he's left we've been nothing but disappointing outside of beating an ok Iowa team in 2011... but 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 & 2012 were all disappointing seasons...
 


All these schools have been nationally relevant and won national titles in the last 10 or so years, what's your point?

+2 Why compare them to Minnesota. Souhan says we suck yet thinks the Gophers are in a postion to behave like the top programs in the country ? I hate the phrase but who wants this job? Why because Souhan makes a dumb remark on the radio it's repeated is beyond me.
 



After 1999 Mason gave Gopher fans one disappointment after another, a nightmarish record of blowing 2nd half leads to lose big games, and a laundry list of excuses for why he couldn't win in Minnesota. And he spent almost his entire time here trying to find another job. Mason deserves all the scorn that Gopher fans can heap on him.

The way I felt about Mason is this: For the first 3 seasons, I truly felt like they were taking a step forward each year, and expected them to continue on an upward trajectory. Not the glory years of the 3 National Championships in a row level, but upper level most years, B10 champ contender every few years, type of program.

Starting in 2001 or 2002 my feelings sunk to the thoughts of "well...better get used to it, this is about as good as it's going to get". I never believed that we would make the jump to Rose Bowl contender unless we came upon a situation like whiskey last year, when other teams either threw up on their shoes, or were ineligible.

And that level should not be "the bar" that we are striving to achieve, that should simply be viewed as a mile marker on our way to greater things. The "Glen Mason level" of winning needs to be looked at not as our destination, but what is referred to in financial analysis as MAR, or Minimum Acceptable Return.

So far, in the third season of the Kill regime, I'm seeing brick-by-brick building, and I feel it is heading the right way. I expect it to continue, but if we plateau at, or below our MAR, or Glen Mason Level, it will be time to move on.
 



He must be. If Mason was rehired I would never watch another game. Souhan is an idiot and about everyone finally realizes that. I won't click the story.

The key word is " watch " A watcher is irrelevant. A attended fan is relevant.
 

Anyhow, I get how some people can look fondly upon the past and ask, 'what if?' However, we all know the program was in decline. Could you argue that we should have given him more time, and hoped he would have bounced back? Sure. What seemed apparent then, and still should be, is that he was not going to get us over the 5-3 hump. He was very close in 2003, and had that happened, it is doubtful we would be having this conversation. At the end of the '06 season, it seemed apparent to most that we needed to move another direction. We are on our second full-time coach. There seems to be progress, though not as fast as many would like. Let's ride it out, give Kill his due time, and evaluate after 5-ish seasons. I understand the frustration, but we need to have perspective.

For the sake of mental exercise, what if we did hire Mason now, or in 2-3 seasons. It assumes a lot since I doubt we want to do so, and I also doubt that he wants to coach again (of course, both are conjecture on my part, but i'll play my gut instincts). I believe Mason would be entering a toxic environment. Many fans and alumni, would think we are taking a step back, settling for mediocrity, would be further evidence of wasting money for a buyout, etc. Some media would be on board (as others have pointed out, this is a very strange turn on their part), others would be bashing the hire. In short, you would have some people pleased (though not ecstatic) and some people POed. There would be no excitement. There would only be a partial honeymoon period. People would expect results even faster. Unless he pulled a drastic turnaround in quick order, the fan base and media would turn on him (again) incredibly quickly. Assuming Mason could make the return to mediocrity, I do not think he could do it quickly enough before everyone changed their tune back to the incredibly negative view that was held in the mid-2000's about him. It just wouldn't work. It's silly talk.
 

After 1999 Mason gave Gopher fans one disappointment after another, a nightmarish record of blowing 2nd half leads to lose big games, and a laundry list of excuses for why he couldn't win in Minnesota. And he spent almost his entire time here trying to find another job. Mason deserves all the scorn that Gopher fans can heap on him.

Since we fired him we're 30-51 and 11-39 in the B1G. Yep, we've earned the right to scorn him.:rolleyes:

We can be disappointed about the gut-wrenching ways he found to lose, but talent-wise, 1999-2003 was probably about as good as it gets here, 2003 especially.
 

Since we fired him we're 30-51 and 11-39 in the B1G. Yep, we've earned the right to scorn him.:rolleyes:

We can be disappointed about the gut-wrenching ways he found to lose, but talent-wise, 1999-2003 was probably about as good as it gets here, 2003 especially.
The transfer of Karon Riley and his cousin Jack Brewer were huge to the program at the time. Mase had some luck and took a flyer on Marion Barber as a second thought. I do believe his staff could find sleeper talent or kids worth gambling on like an Ernie Wheelwright. Maybe if they would have stuck the bewildered one up in the press box during games and let someone else deal with game speed decisions things would have been better. A question if Mason wasn't fired does JJ Watt come here and stay at tight end like they recruited him to play?
 




Yep, this is about right. You don't like my opinion so attack where I live; the place that gave me way more opportunities in my profession so I could support my family.

Your point bolded actually helped my argument because as you must know, Mason went 32-48 in the Big Ten. So if BT wins is ultimately what matters as you say, then I don't know how you could say he was anything but below average.

Of course if you would have actually read my post, I pointed out that he did some good things and has been more successful than any coach in awhile. That doesn't mean he should be the head coach again.

livinginiowaperson: I recall a time or two you took some pretty cheap-shots at something I said you didn't agree with. Let's just say you can say what ever you like and I'll do the same. NOBODY has done as well as 32-48 back in the damn dome...OR...in TCF BANK STADIUM. Your silly argument that somehow "less is more..." might work with play-station-type people but any conference win is a great win. So, any coach who has more conference wins than any other coach has provided this fan with something of great value.

So livinginiowaperson: you as a person who takes shots at other posters here because of what they think gets NO special pass. Think about it. It is kind of poetic justice. You post how you post and I'll post how I post. Life is really good here in Minnesota. It's not so bad in iowa, I suppose...but that is where eg9 lives, isn't it?
 




I liked Mason for the most part, at least until he started to phone it in at the end. The thought of bringing him back in any capacity has absolutely no appeal to me.
 

Shut up about Mason, it's so inane to keep bringing him up. All mentions of him are nothing more than click fodder for the STribs' website because it is guaranteed to get the mouth breathers up in arms. Don't be one of those people.

We need some hungry and driven to lead this program and he is neither at this point. You couldn't say those things during the last years of his tenure, much less now.

The coaching staff have my support until they show they can't do the job. We are halfway through year 3 in a process that a lot of us were thinking would be a 5 year minimum process to get us back to respectability. Things have hardly gone perfectly, and the Iowa game brought out most of the vitriol because a lot of us had that chalked up as a "W" before the season started.

People are getting restless already because of the "3rd year turn" that Kill's teams had made in his past 2 stops hasn't materialized thus far. Take a deep breath, calm down, and realize that Kill and the staff will give everything they can to make Minnesota a competitive and respected program. That's not something you can say for Mr. Mason.
 

Mason left us 6-7 & 3-5 in the Big Ten... Brewster left us at the bottom of the Big Ten...

Exactly, I'm not sure if you were referencing me or the guy that said Mason left this program in shambles. I was simply reminding him that Brewster would beg to differ.
 

Exactly, I'm not sure if you were referencing me or the guy that said Mason left this program in shambles. I was simply reminding him that Brewster would beg to differ.

Some fans have what I like to call "selective memory"...
 

Shut up about Mason, it's so inane to keep bringing him up. All mentions of him are nothing more than click fodder for the STribs' website because it is guaranteed to get the mouth breathers up in arms. Don't be one of those people.

We need some hungry and driven to lead this program and he is neither at this point. You couldn't say those things during the last years of his tenure, much less now.

1.)The coaching staff have my support until they show they can't do the job. We are halfway through year 3 in a process that a lot of us were thinking COULD be a 5 year minimum process to get us back to respectability. Things have hardly gone perfectly, and 2.)the Iowa game brought out most of the vitriol because a lot of us had that chalked up as a "W" before the season started.

3.)People are getting restless already because of the "3rd year turn" that Kill's teams had made in his past 2 stops hasn't materialized thus far. Take a deep breath, calm down, and realize that Kill and the staff will give everything they can to make Minnesota a competitive and respected program. That's not something you can say for Mr. Mason.

1. Agree.
2. More likely people thought that they'd need that game for a shot at 7 or even 6 wins. Probably why Kill's decision to go with the "hurt" guy was so bothersome.
3. It's not just the two games this year West Coast. It's a worrisome trend. Some people, maybe more, are concerned that in the last 12 games against BCS teams, they've scored 17, 13, 13, 13, 44, 13, 3, 14, 10, 31, 7 and 13 points. That's just ain't enough and never will be for a team that probably will be facing a "talent deficit" in Conference games for the foreseeable future. It puts WAY to much pressure on the Defense.

Two games or worrying about the 3rd Year "Miracle? Nope, worried that they may depend to much on an Offensive Scheme that just won't work on this level. That and the fact that they appear to have no "Plan B" either. Hope THAT changes too.
 

Some fans have what I like to call "selective memory"...

Much like many people forget Mason's constant refrain that last season. "We are looking a a major rebuilding job". The emphasis on "major" was Glen's not mine.
 

Much like many people forget Mason's constant refrain that last season. "We are looking a a major rebuilding job". The emphasis on "major" was Glen's not mine.

And we've been "rebuilding" since 2006...
 

And we've been "rebuilding" since 2006...

True and they've also been awful for all but one of those years. Just makes 2005 and '06 tougher to take. Those teams had a lot of talent. Way to much to finish 7-5 and 6-7.

By the way, a big F.U. to Souhan for bringing the subject up.
 

True and they've also been awful for all but one of those years. Just makes 2005 and '06 tougher to take. Those teams had a lot of talent. Way to much to finish 7-5 and 6-7.

By the way, a big F.U. to Souhan for bringing the subject up.

I agree... 2005 team was 1 muffed punt snap away from an 8 win Season & 2006 started off horrible the way Mason was against having Pinnix in the backfield so he used Alex Danieals??? Just dumb... but it does make me wonder if we'll ever see 63 on a Big Ten opponent again...
 

I agree... 2005 team was 1 muffed punt snap away from an 8 win Season & 2006 started off horrible the way Mason was against having Pinnix in the backfield so he used Alex Danieals??? Just dumb... but it does make me wonder if we'll ever see 63 on a Big Ten opponent again...

I'll settle for SCORING 33, no, make that 23. Oh, and not pissing away any more 4th Quarter leads in stunning and unusual fashions as the last competent Head Coach at Minnesota was wont to do.

On the bad punt, even if he had got it off or had been told to take the Safety there's no guarantee that the Gophers would have won that game. They hadn't shown any ability to stop Wisconsin for most of the 4th Quarter had they? And the Badgers certainly had figured out how to stop the Gophers on the ground by then too.
 

Two games or worrying about the 3rd Year "Miracle? Nope, worried that they may depend to much on an Offensive Scheme that just won't work on this level. That and the fact that they appear to have no "Plan B" either. Hope THAT changes too.

I admit that this does concern me a bit.

The read option is difficult to defend when run correctly but frankly we haven't shown the consistent aerial threat to keep teams honest, like any other run offense has to. I do think our personnel is more suited to a Pistol/Pro-Style hybrid a lot like what San Francisco runs. We have big TEs that can block fairly well and catch passes and virtually no WRs of note, we should be lining up in more 2 TE sets and trying to catch LBs and safeties cheating down on the read option. I personally would love to see Leidner in a pure pistol offense, and I think he'd thrive with the run heavy sets that utilize play action with the TEs.

It is cliched but the offense as a whole is still pretty young (not excusing the poor performance). I am hopeful that the offense takes steps forward this year and that the staff can decide on a signal caller going forward. Having a revolving door at QB, especially when all players in the conversation would be Fresh/Sophs, is terrible for cohesion. If Leidner steps up and seizes the job permanently hopefully the staff will tweak things to suit his abilities. I'm not bounding with optimism but I'm not even close to throwing in the towel for Limegrover, as bad as things have been so far.

Before the season most people would have agreed that the offense was the side of the ball that needed the most work, and that continues to be true. Unless we start playing Michigan State-esque defense on the regular we are going to have to start hanging ~27-30 points a game to be a competitive squad.
 

Exactly, I'm not sure if you were referencing me or the guy that said Mason left this program in shambles. I was simply reminding him that Brewster would beg to differ.

Brewster definitely would NOT beg to differ. At the risk of sounding like a broken record the following is Brewster's starting lineup against Michigan in in 2007. He was forced to start (6) True Freshmen and (3) Redshirt Freshmen against a team that won 9 games and beat Florida in the Citrus Bowl. Three of the True Freshman started in the defensive backfield.

Gopher's starting line-up against Michigan in 2007

Pos ## Offense

WR 1 Wheelwright, E. - Senior
WR 7 Decker, Eric - Sophmore
LT 64 Shidell, Steve - Senior
LG 52 Tow-Arnett,Jeff - Sophmore
C 77 Brinkhaus, Tony - Senior
LG 53 Burris, D.J. - RS Freshman
RT 76 Alford, Dominic - RS Freshman
WR 81 Spry, Ralph - True Freshman
WR 6 Herndon, Tray - True Freshman
QB 8 Weber, Adam - RS Freshman
RB 22 Bennett, Duane - True Freshman


Pos ## Defense

LE Henderson, Ray - Sophmore
LT Allen, Neel - Senior
RT Meisel, Todd - Senior
RE Campbell, Lee - Sophmore
SLB Davis, Steve - Junior
MLB Hightower, Deon - Junior
WLB Mannion, Kevin - Junior
CB Theret, Kyle - True Freshman
FS Thomas, Curtis - True Freshman

SS Barber, Dom - Senior
CB Collado, Ryan - True Freshman
 




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