Souhan’s Startribune article: When evaluating Ben Johnson's Gophers future, both patience and perspective are required

EasyThere Pilgrim

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it’s pretty funny how obvious the straight up contrarianism is


Program doing well = strib will go negative
Program doing bad = strib will go positive
Are some of you trying to say that this Souhan article is positive??

The Strib always trashes us...and with lies. Souhan & Reusse won't ever mention good recruiting or anything like that.
 

BarnBurner

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Souhan is mistaking being a contrarian with nuance and perspective.

We all know we've been bad. Our bar is incredibly low. Seriously, if we looked like a 6 win Big 10 team this year, Ben would be fairly popular (probably 50/50). Even Ben's harshest critics don't expect him to make the NCAA or anything like that. Gopher basketball fans are incredibly patient and realistic. If the product (on the court) isn't decent next year, we'd have every reason to move on.

This isn't the NBA or the NFL where bottoming out can actually help. Bottoming out hurts. Another year of this kind of play and it's going to impact recruiting/retention.

Just because we've been "bad" for 30 years doesn't mean that extending "horrible" is the solution.
Not according to many here on gh.
 

Some guy

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Are some of you trying to say that this Souhan article is positive??

The Strib always trashes us...and with lies. Souhan & Reusse won't ever mention good recruiting or anything like that.
They literally mentioned good recruiting in this article ?
 





Formerswish

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I didnt read it but it SEEMED negative.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Whether it seemed positive or negative to people, everybody is tired of poor teams, especially when you look not far to the east at what they've done there. I'd also forward the unpopular notion that we can use a bit of patience around here. If next year is another poor-performing team, then Johnson should definitely be on the hot seat. He's in the middle of his 2nd year.

He does have some very good players coming next year, and the transfer portal can change things in a hurry. If you're 100% certain that things won't change, misery still loves company.
 

short ornery norwegian

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having read the entire article:

to me, the central point of the article seems to be that Mega-Tongue is - in large part - responsible for the current state of Gopher hoops. Teague fired Tubby after Tubby had made the NCAA tourney 3 times in 6 years. Teague thought his supposed basketball connections would help him land a big-time coach. instead, he wound up hiring Pitino with 1 year of HC experience. That, according to Souhan, took the program further in the wrong direction.

the Gophers - with a few minor blips - have not been relevant in the B1G or national scene since Clem left/got run out of town.

Ben Johnson did not inherit an NCAA powerhouse and take it into the outhouse in a year and a half.
in the end, Souhan is saying that fans need to be realistic about where the Gopher program is at.
 

BarnBurner

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Whether it seemed positive or negative to people, everybody is tired of poor teams, especially when you look not far to the east at what they've done there. I'd also forward the unpopular notion that we can use a bit of patience around here. If next year is another poor-performing team, then Johnson should definitely be on the hot seat. He's in the middle of his 2nd year.

He does have some very good players coming next year, and the transfer portal can change things in a hurry. If you're 100% certain that things won't change, misery still loves company.
Agree on tiring of poor teams - that happened a long, long, long time ago for some of us around here. Many have been BEYOND patient, only to have the U admin hire 2 unproven coaches.

IN A ROW.

Evans, Christie, Betts are going to have to light it up like never witnessed here before, in order to win at a reasonable clip next season. Other teams do not stand pat.

The portal season will be the win or loss following this season. HAVE to have floor leader guards. Lots of winning doesn't happen, usually, without them. CBJ better be able to land a couple strong, strong guards. Otherwise,.......
 



Formerswish

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Agree on tiring of poor teams - that happened a long, long, long time ago for some of us around here. Many have been BEYOND patient, only to have the U admin hire 2 unproven coaches.

IN A ROW.

Evans, Christie, Betts are going to have to light it up like never witnessed here before, in order to win at a reasonable clip next season. Other teams do not stand pat.

The portal season will be the win or loss following this season. HAVE to have floor leader guards. Lots of winning doesn't happen, usually, without them. CBJ better be able to land a couple strong, strong guards. Otherwise,.......
I certainly agree that 2 unproven coaches were hired consecutively, and I think a point guard and a shooter that can handle it (maybe that's Christie?) would be lovely. However, I don't think it's all on Evans and Christie. I'd be VERY surprised if some of our freshmen don't improve a great deal before next year and contribute a lot more than this year. And if none of that happens, Ben is probably an assistant again somewhere.
 


kg21

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At this point in time, how Johnson or Souhan have a job is just plain Minnesota Sports.
 




BarnBurner

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I certainly agree that 2 unproven coaches were hired consecutively, and I think a point guard and a shooter that can handle it (maybe that's Christie?) would be lovely. However, I don't think it's all on Evans and Christie. I'd be VERY surprised if some of our freshmen don't improve a great deal before next year and contribute a lot more than this year. And if none of that happens, Ben is probably an assistant again somewhere.
I think JOJ has improved the most, overall, to this point. Payne is about the same, perhaps a bit better than 2 months ago. Carrington is really underwhelming, to me, thus far. Henley is out of control most of the time, imo.

Which do you see improving over the next 8-10 months? In what areas? I certainly hope there is improvement, and perhaps there will be, however the real question is will it be good enough to complete - and win?

Evans should - should - provide a defensive presence that not many have. I just dont know if he will be able to compete with the conference bangers with his build. And, I hope Chrisite is the second coming of Bobby Jackson.
 

MennoSota

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I think JOJ has improved the most, overall, to this point. Payne is about the same, perhaps a bit better than 2 months ago. Carrington is really underwhelming, to me, thus far. Henley is out of control most of the time, imo.

Which do you see improving over the next 8-10 months? In what areas? I certainly hope there is improvement, and perhaps there will be, however the real question is will it be good enough to complete - and win?

Evans should - should - provide a defensive presence that not many have. I just dont know if he will be able to compete with the conference bangers with his build. And, I hope Chrisite is the second coming of Bobby Jackson.
Christie is not. Jackson came here as a junior, by the way. Christie is smooth and he lets the game come to him.
I know these two years haven't given much to cheer for. It is what it is. Whining won't fix it.
 

Bfan

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What a load of garbage, they had other options, they just cancelled their interviews.

Who were the other coaching options? Phil Jackson? Flip your cards over. Who were the other options?

I think one point of the article is that Minnesota was not in a position to have high expectations.

Another is that recruiting may be the only way out of this debacle.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If I am a recruit considering Minnesota, I wasn't turned off by the Minnesota-Michigan game. I also liked the Ohio State game. I think the team is at least taking shape as a Big Ten caliber team.


If I'm Ben Johnson I can say to my recruits, "Listen, we are strong next season at post positions with Evans, Payne, Ola-Joseph and our other guys -- we are a forward-heavy roster with some good guys there.

"And that's why I really need you as our point guard of the future. Cooper will be a senior next year, and then you get the keys to the car."

Or if they go after a transfer portal point guard, they can tell the prospect that Cooper can move to a combo game closer to SG. He shoots 3-s better than defense and assists. Any guard prospect can see the Gophers will look good in the paint and forward in general. That means minutes for any guard that can stand out.


1674610891344.png1674611146114.png


Shooters at or coming from the perimeter is what this team needs. The team has bets on 3 young players there -- Christie, Carrington and Henley. I think the Gophers have to assume one will come through because they are in trouble if one doesn't.

That means using the last roster spot available next season (presumed) or the next #1 recruit on a true point guard.


Other than Purdue, the Big Ten is generally even. It's not shocking to imagine the Gophers competing in the second pack once rock star Dennis Evans arrives and assume the guard play isn't a mess.



1674611787918.png
 



Gopherfan84

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Craig Smith
Niko Medved
Brian Dutcher
Among others.
Dutcher wasn’t a sure thing to come (I’m aware of his clause in his contract, but they love San Diego). Most likely could’ve got Niko or Craig. The “others” were like Ben Jacobsen (UNI), but there were not a ton of guys running to this job. Some others made some demands (probably fair in some of them) that we wouldn’t likely meet. Sam Mitchell wanted it too (Gross). Most knew it probably was going to be hard to turn around quickly.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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Hold on! We are in last, again?
Those standings are bogus. They don't even account for how many high fives, butt slaps, and 10 point freshman games we have. They also don't account for who has signed a center who will be a lock to be a top five NBA draft pick. If we move out of the cellar, we are off the Clem Haskins trajectory and all is lost.

Am I doing this right?
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Who were the other coaching options? Phil Jackson? Flip your cards over. Who were the other options?

I think one point of the article is that Minnesota was not in a position to have high expectations.

Another is that recruiting may be the only way out of this debacle.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If I am a recruit considering Minnesota, I wasn't turned off by the Minnesota-Michigan game. I also liked the Ohio State game. I think the team is at least taking shape as a Big Ten caliber team.


If I'm Ben Johnson I can say to my recruits, "Listen, we are strong next season at post positions with Evans, Payne, Ola-Joseph and our other guys -- we are a forward-heavy roster with some good guys there.

"And that's why I really need you as our point guard of the future. Cooper will be a senior next year, and then you get the keys to the car."

Or if they go after a transfer portal point guard, they can tell the prospect that Cooper can move to a combo game closer to SG. He shoots 3-s better than defense and assists. Any guard prospect can see the Gophers will look good in the paint and forward in general. That means minutes for any guard that can stand out.


View attachment 23357View attachment 23358


Shooters at or coming from the perimeter is what this team needs. The team has bets on 3 young players there -- Christie, Carrington and Henley. I think the Gophers have to assume one will come through because they are in trouble if one doesn't.

That means using the last roster spot available next season (presumed) or the next #1 recruit on a true point guard.


Other than Purdue, the Big Ten is generally even. It's not shocking to imagine the Gophers competing in the second pack once rock star Dennis Evans arrives and assume the guard play isn't a mess.



View attachment 23359
Unfortunately as much as Purdue is an anomaly, so are we. They're really good, we're really bad. The rest of them are pretty close.
 

Formerswish

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I think JOJ has improved the most, overall, to this point. Payne is about the same, perhaps a bit better than 2 months ago. Carrington is really underwhelming, to me, thus far. Henley is out of control most of the time, imo.

Which do you see improving over the next 8-10 months? In what areas? I certainly hope there is improvement, and perhaps there will be, however the real question is will it be good enough to complete - and win?

Evans should - should - provide a defensive presence that not many have. I just dont know if he will be able to compete with the conference bangers with his build. And, I hope Chrisite is the second coming of Bobby Jackson.
Well, how about both Payne and JOJ being able to shoot a consistent 8 -15 ft jumper and at least be a threat to shoot? That would add a lot to this team. And even though they're both strong now, they can add some more muscle. Payne at 270 will be pretty physical-he can put more weight on his frame.

The people who have been around Carrington all say he's a great shooter, and other than a couple of spurts, he didn't show it this year. He needs to be able to drive more effectively to help give him some space for his shot. He certainly can shoot it better than this year. And Henley? That kid is talented, but he played out of control much of the time. If he can settle down and pick his spots better, he could improve a huge amount-but then he has the furthest to go. And they could all improve on the defensive end with better strength and movement in the offseason. These are all "ifs", but they sure would be nice..
 

Some guy

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Craig Smith
Niko Medved
Brian Dutcher
Among others.
Craig smith - currently not in most bracketology fields….not helped by the pac 12 being awful. They’re having a nice year.
Niko Medved - 10-9 in the mountain west
Brian dutcher - not convinced he would’ve came this way.


I remember of B Johnson, Craig smith, and Niko Medved I wanted Johnson because he would be the easiest to fire quickly.
 

BarnBurner

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Christie is not. Jackson came here as a junior, by the way. Christie is smooth and he lets the game come to him.
I know these two years haven't given much to cheer for. It is what it is. Whining won't fix it.
I know full well Bobby arrived as a junior. Im not whining, just stating facts.
 

BarnBurner

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Well, how about both Payne and JOJ being able to shoot a consistent 8 -15 ft jumper and at least be a threat to shoot? That would add a lot to this team. And even though they're both strong now, they can add some more muscle. Payne at 270 will be pretty physical-he can put more weight on his frame.

The people who have been around Carrington all say he's a great shooter, and other than a couple of spurts, he didn't show it this year. He needs to be able to drive more effectively to help give him some space for his shot. He certainly can shoot it better than this year. And Henley? That kid is talented, but he played out of control much of the time. If he can settle down and pick his spots better, he could improve a huge amount-but then he has the furthest to go. And they could all improve on the defensive end with better strength and movement in the offseason. These are all "ifs", but they sure would be nice..
Last game I saw JOJ take a few shots he hadn't previously. He made a couple. Thats why I believe he is further along than the others.
 

SelectionSunday

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Unfortunately as much as Purdue is an anomaly, so are we. They're really good, we're really bad. The rest of them are pretty close.
We are the one team in the Big Ten that every other team/fan base looks at on their schedule and says to themselves, “We can’t afford to lose that game.”

We’ve become the Eddie Jordan Rutgers era of the Big Ten.
 

Gopher Teeth

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Who were the other coaching options? Phil Jackson? Flip your cards over. Who were the other options?

I think one point of the article is that Minnesota was not in a position to have high expectations.

Another is that recruiting may be the only way out of this debacle.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If I am a recruit considering Minnesota, I wasn't turned off by the Minnesota-Michigan game. I also liked the Ohio State game. I think the team is at least taking shape as a Big Ten caliber team.


If I'm Ben Johnson I can say to my recruits, "Listen, we are strong next season at post positions with Evans, Payne, Ola-Joseph and our other guys -- we are a forward-heavy roster with some good guys there.

"And that's why I really need you as our point guard of the future. Cooper will be a senior next year, and then you get the keys to the car."

Or if they go after a transfer portal point guard, they can tell the prospect that Cooper can move to a combo game closer to SG. He shoots 3-s better than defense and assists. Any guard prospect can see the Gophers will look good in the paint and forward in general. That means minutes for any guard that can stand out.


View attachment 23357View attachment 23358


Shooters at or coming from the perimeter is what this team needs. The team has bets on 3 young players there -- Christie, Carrington and Henley. I think the Gophers have to assume one will come through because they are in trouble if one doesn't.

That means using the last roster spot available next season (presumed) or the next #1 recruit on a true point guard.


Other than Purdue, the Big Ten is generally even. It's not shocking to imagine the Gophers competing in the second pack once rock star Dennis Evans arrives and assume the guard play isn't a mess.



View attachment 23359
Obviously you never paid attention to what was going on which makes me question your analysis now. Just do some research instead of calling BS on me:
1674657998269.png
1674657983733.png
Medved and Mussleman were still in the tournament at the time (wouldn't that be nice), so they couldn't be interviewed. Would have it really killed the program for Coyle to wait until some of these coaches were available?

Souhan's article read like we were begging for people to interview, but nobody would come, which is complete BS. Smith was on the way, they canceled him. Dutcher was working out arrangements with his current boss for a job that he literally had a clause in his contract for if the opportunity ever came up. Then the other coaches were in the tournament and thus couldn't interview, so Souhan is a liar and you are gullible enough to believe it. Souhan lied so that his narrative couldn't be debunked. Some reason Souhan wants people to just accept failure, its ok, in fact relish it.

Give me the past comparable NCAA big man freshman that Evans will be. Who is it? Pick a big NCAA freshman big man from the 80's to today. You seem to know the impact he will have, so tell us who will he be equivalent to?
 

cjbfbp

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Souhan has ZERO interest in making valid analysis. He was brought in from Missouri and paid to lie and stir-up anger...which gets more clicks & comments.

Maybe Wet_Blanket is paid to do the same on here. Or he could be hostile to the Gophers because he went to St. Thomas.

You should see someone about that paranoia. The above passage sounds like absolute nonsense and perhaps a little projection. Maybe your goal is just to get clicks and comments.
 


cjbfbp

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Give me the past comparable NCAA big man freshman that Evans will be. Who is it? Pick a big NCAA freshman big man from the 80's to today. You seem to know the impact he will have, so tell us who will he be equivalent to?

Good question but maybe too aggressively challenging. I don't know. Acie Earl of early nineties Iowa maybe?
 




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