Souhan’s Startribune article: When evaluating Ben Johnson's Gophers future, both patience and perspective are required

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Ouch!

“If this were an established, winning program, Johnson would be fired. But if this were an established, winning program, Johnson would not have been hired.”
 

BleedGopher

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Per the column:

Let's review how this program got to this point:

  • Haskins was an ideal coach for Minnesota, except for the cheating, which got him fired and prompted Minnesota to hire Dan Monson.
  • Monson was hired to win without cheating. He never seemed comfortable in Minnesota and eventually resigned, having taken the Gophers to the NCAA tournament once in eight seasons.
  • Smith was hired and took the Gophers to the tournament in his second, third and sixth seasons before Teague fired him. That performance felt like a disappointment, given Smith's Hall of Fame résumé. Now it should be remembered as Gophers hoops nirvana.
  • Teague hired Pitino because he couldn't find anyone else to take the job.
  • When Pitino was fired, Minnesota again had trouble landing an established coach and chose to hire an excellent recruiter in Johnson.
  • Johnson started his career by winning 10 of his first 11 games. He has lost 27 of his last 37.
If this were an established, winning program, Johnson would be fired. But if this were an established, winning program, Johnson would not have been hired.

Minnesota's brain trust should avoid the mistake Teague made, and acknowledge that this is a traditionally mediocre program that needs to recruit better players. Johnson has already started doing that.


Go Gophers!!
 





Gopher Teeth

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Per the column:

Let's review how this program got to this point:

  • When Pitino was fired, Minnesota again had trouble landing an established coach and chose to hire an excellent recruiter in Johnson.
What a load of garbage, they had other options, they just cancelled their interviews. He knows it, he just decided to gaslight the uninformed.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Nothing like losing 27 of your last 37 with the wins sandwich in their only being against the linked of central / western Michigan, Chicago state, Arkansas Pine Bluff, and a few other cream puffs of the world... and last year's 10-1 start was against these teams... *final kempom rankings inserted

Kansas City (#214), Western Kentucky (#112) , Princeton (#107), Purdue Fort Wayne (#237), Jacksonville (#164) , Pitt (#195) , Mississippi State (49), MSU (L #42), Michigan (good win #27), Texas A&M Corpus Christi (#245), Green Bay (#345) *average Kempom of the first 11 opponents last year was 158 *gophers were an incredible favorite

Side-note: Minnesota finished the season @ 109 in Kempom *currently 187
 
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EasyThere Pilgrim

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Souhan has ZERO interest in making valid analysis. He was brought in from Missouri and paid to lie and stir-up anger...which gets more clicks & comments.

Maybe Wet_Blanket is paid to do the same on here. Or he could be hostile to the Gophers because he went to St. Thomas.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim

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By the way...I lost my phone and have a new one now. My email accounts were all acting like it would be a national security breach if I could simply log back in.

Anyhow, I ended up with this username now...which I like better because it's not almost the same as someone else's...and it was my first choice anyway.
 





UpAndUnder43

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By the way...I lost my phone and have a new one now. My email accounts were all acting like it would be a national security breach if I could simply log back in.

Anyhow, I ended up with this username now...which I like better because it's not almost the same as someone else's...and it was my first choice anyway.
Who were you before?
 

WindyCityGopher

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The classic Minnesota sports screed: How dare you have expectations for your teams to be excellent (shit, at this point I would take competent from Gophers hoops)! Just sit back, watch the bubbling mediocrity and don’t say a word. And if you do raise objections to being a fan of a team that puts out a garbage product year after year you’ll be scolded as being unrealistic. F**k this weak take.
 





Some guy

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It is fair to ask, at what point does Coyle have to come out and make a public comment that Ben is our guy? If not, what message does that send...
I would say the opposite. Zero people think he is getting fired this year. If he comes out and says that some people will read it as a sign they’re talking about it.

The vote of confidence sometimes does the opposite of what it’s intended to do
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Souhan is mistaking being a contrarian with nuance and perspective.

We all know we've been bad. Our bar is incredibly low. Seriously, if we looked like a 6 win Big 10 team this year, Ben would be fairly popular (probably 50/50). Even Ben's harshest critics don't expect him to make the NCAA or anything like that. Gopher basketball fans are incredibly patient and realistic. If the product (on the court) isn't decent next year, we'd have every reason to move on.

This isn't the NBA or the NFL where bottoming out can actually help. Bottoming out hurts. Another year of this kind of play and it's going to impact recruiting/retention.

Just because we've been "bad" for 30 years doesn't mean that extending "horrible" is the solution.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I would say the opposite. Zero people think he is getting fired this year. If he comes out and says that some people will read it as a sign they’re talking about it.

The vote of confidence sometimes does the opposite of what it’s intended to do
It'd be like your wife looking at you and saying "you know, I don't think we should get a divorce".

If Coyle came out this year, it would at least give the optics that things were going poorly, he contemplated and despite it all, he is standing by Ben Johnson. This year he needs to pretend like nothing is even happening.

If it's this bad next year, I think he'll need to come out and make a statement and those statements are often the kiss of death.
 

Spaulding!No!

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It'd be like your wife looking at you and saying "you know, I don't think we should get a divorce".

If Coyle came out this year, it would at least give the optics that things were going poorly, he contemplated and despite it all, he is standing by Ben Johnson. This year he needs to pretend like nothing is even happening.

If it's this bad next year, I think he'll need to come out and make a statement and those statements are often the kiss of death.
Y or N. Coach gets a raise/extension at the end of the year?
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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It'd be like your wife looking at you and saying "you know, I don't think we should get a divorce".

If Coyle came out this year, it would at least give the optics that things were going poorly, he contemplated and despite it all, he is standing by Ben Johnson. This year he needs to pretend like nothing is even happening.

If it's this bad next year, I think he'll need to come out and make a statement and those statements are often the kiss of death.
At some point if they lose another 4 straight (which is highly likely), he will go into self-preservation mode (Coyle).

If Gopher basketball becomes a national embarrassment, which it is bordering on, if not there already, it will be associated to Coyle for the rest of his career. He may do damage control at some point as he thinks about his future prospects.
 

gopheraddict

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Souhan is mistaking being a contrarian with nuance and perspective.

We all know we've been bad. Our bar is incredibly low. Seriously, if we looked like a 6 win Big 10 team this year, Ben would be fairly popular (probably 50/50). Even Ben's harshest critics don't expect him to make the NCAA or anything like that. Gopher basketball fans are incredibly patient and realistic. If the product (on the court) isn't decent next year, we'd have every reason to move on.

This isn't the NBA or the NFL where bottoming out can actually help. Bottoming out hurts. Another year of this kind of play and it's going to impact recruiting/retention.

Just because we've been "bad" for 30 years doesn't mean that extending "horrible" is the solution.
As well as ticket sales and in person attendance.
 

bga1

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Souhan is mistaking being a contrarian with nuance and perspective.

We all know we've been bad. Our bar is incredibly low. Seriously, if we looked like a 6 win Big 10 team this year, Ben would be fairly popular (probably 50/50). Even Ben's harshest critics don't expect him to make the NCAA or anything like that. Gopher basketball fans are incredibly patient and realistic. If the product (on the court) isn't decent next year, we'd have every reason to move on.

This isn't the NBA or the NFL where bottoming out can actually help. Bottoming out hurts. Another year of this kind of play and it's going to impact recruiting/retention.

Just because we've been "bad" for 30 years doesn't mean that extending "horrible" is the solution.
The sad part is this: The 2024 class signs this fall before we play another game beyond the current disaster of a season. That class will be a tough sell with a program that might well be 6-34 over the past two years. Oh how I would love for us to hit the lofty goal of 10-30 for the two years, finishing with a flourish! That would show progress to the next group.
 




howeda7

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Per the column:

Let's review how this program got to this point:

  • Haskins was an ideal coach for Minnesota, except for the cheating, which got him fired and prompted Minnesota to hire Dan Monson.
  • Monson was hired to win without cheating. He never seemed comfortable in Minnesota and eventually resigned, having taken the Gophers to the NCAA tournament once in eight seasons.
  • Smith was hired and took the Gophers to the tournament in his second, third and sixth seasons before Teague fired him. That performance felt like a disappointment, given Smith's Hall of Fame résumé. Now it should be remembered as Gophers hoops nirvana.
  • Teague hired Pitino because he couldn't find anyone else to take the job.
  • When Pitino was fired, Minnesota again had trouble landing an established coach and chose to hire an excellent recruiter in Johnson.
  • Johnson started his career by winning 10 of his first 11 games. He has lost 27 of his last 37.
If this were an established, winning program, Johnson would be fired. But if this were an established, winning program, Johnson would not have been hired.

Minnesota's brain trust should avoid the mistake Teague made, and acknowledge that this is a traditionally mediocre program that needs to recruit better players. Johnson has already started doing that.


Go Gophers!!
Souhan knows nothing about college basketball and his point about "had trouble hiring an established coach" after Pitino is simply wrong.
 


howeda7

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The classic Minnesota sports screed: How dare you have expectations for your teams to be excellent (shit, at this point I would take competent from Gophers hoops)! Just sit back, watch the bubbling mediocrity and don’t say a word. And if you do raise objections to being a fan of a team that puts out a garbage product year after year you’ll be scolded as being unrealistic. F**k this weak take.
I'd kill for some bubbling mediocrity from this team actually.
 


Bob_Loblaw

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it’s pretty funny how obvious the straight up contrarianism is


Program doing well = strib will go negative
Program doing bad = strib will go positive
When the Gophers win 9 games in football, they follow with an article about how we can't compete with Bama.

When we're the worst program in the Big 10 in basketball, we need to have a little perspective.

You can't make this stuff up.
 




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