Something I Don't Get About People Turning On JERRY KILL...

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Talent is one thing. Being poorly coached is another.

Talent accounts for the speed, the strength.




Talent doesnt prevent a coaching staff from getting a team to line up correctly.
Talent doesn't prevent a team from giving their best effort.
Talent doesn't prevent a team from having a good gameplan.
 


Rosemountian said:
Talent is one thing. Being poorly coached is another.

Talent accounts for the speed, the strength.




Talent doesnt prevent a coaching staff from getting a team to line up correctly.
Talent doesn't prevent a team from giving their best effort.
Talent doesn't prevent a team from having a good gameplan.
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Coaches don't tell players to line up offsides.
Coaches don't tell players to not give their best effort.
No argument against this other than I will trust the coaching staff.
 

goldengophers said:
This program cannot afford 4 years like they did Brewster, if we aren't in a Bowl game in 2013 it's time to move on.
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And then they'll have to hire some high school coach because they won't even stick with a coach for 4 years.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
For the purposes of this discussion, I am going to assume that most of you who are complaining about penalties have never been put in a situation where you are playing far superior talent in a competition like football or basketball where because of your positioning or lack of speed or awareness you make foolish mistakes and have stupid penalties. These penalties are the same one you see rookies in the NFL and NBA make who get pressed into a starting position. Sometimes they simply make a stupid penalty because they are beaten, out maneuvered, etc. So I am not overly concerned that our FR and RFR made stupid penalties...because they are made trying to compete...or just keep up in this case. All the yelling in the world can't make this learning and growing process happen any faster.

Regarding today, we started a true FR QB in MI, his first start, we had 2 FR RBs, 2 FR and RFR WR plus a JUCO transfer at WE, a FR and RFR starting DEs and a backup corner who transferred in from DII and ...do I really need to go on. What the hell did you expect...I'm just glad we didn't lose by more. MI is on fire right now and we had no hope of competing in this game.
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Bingo
 


zambam said:
And then they'll have to hire some high school coach because they won't even stick with a coach for 4 years.
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A new AD should have no problem explaining that both the institutional and athletic leadership changed which is why a coach was let go after 3 years.
 



Rosemountian said:
And no, kills teams at NIU weren't flukes, but none of them would have finished top 5 in the big ten either. They were what they were.
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Rose, I think that you bring a lot to this board, and I understand that you don't like the Kill hire. But equating Kill's teams at NIU to B10 caliber is foolish at best. It's a whole different world, with different recruiting opportunities and challenges (opportunities) than he's ever had to deal with, and this is going to be a laborious process for a couple of years.
 



Unregistered User said:
Rose, I think that you bring a lot to this board, and I understand that you don't like the Kill hire. But equating Kill's teams at NIU to B10 caliber is foolish at best. It's a whole different world, with different recruiting opportunities and challenges (opportunities) than he's ever had to deal with, and this is going to be a laborious process for a couple of years.
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Your're right and I think that was overlooked by some people. I think he skipped at least a step on the coaching ladder. It doesn't mean he can't be successful at Minnesota. It's just the two recent examples of Urban Meyer and Brady Hoke went to the Mt. West schools before getting jobs at BCS schools.
 

Next year will be better. They are in the middle of the tear down phase. Its not about winning at this point. Anyone who has served in the armed forces should know what KIll is doing. Its like the first 2 to 4 weeks of basic trainning.
 

You can coach and coach all you want, but if the players "just ain't that bright" you're still going to have penalties and mental mistakes. The culture of losing is going to take YEARS to expunge from this program. Kill gets a MINIMUM of 4 years from me. That doesn't mean he has to be in the Rose Bowl, I just want to see year over year improvement and hopefully a mid-level bowl by that point.
 

goldengophers said:
This program cannot afford 4 years like they did Brewster, if we aren't in a Bowl game in 2013 it's time to move on.
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This program can't afford to not be bowling in 2 years?

What do you mean 'they can't afford'? What would happen?
 



What does it matter if we lose by 50 or lose by 1. A loss is a loss, I think realistic expectations were maybe 1-3 wins this year. I think some of the anger on the board is people got excited when they heard Kill, and thought that would translate to 6 wins. Seems like there are some on this board who want moral victories and then count them as victories. at the end of the year, you look at the record. I think the 58-0 loss will either wake up some of the players or they will quit. And you will be able to tell the quiters as they will not see much playing time the rest of the way. Kill has said the situation here is worse than when he went to S Illinois, and they were just about to drop the program. Kill is not playing for this season, he is playing for next year and the year after. they team will get younger on the field as the season goes on to get some of the younger players some PT.
 

It doesn't matter if they lose by 50 or lose by 1.

I'd have more confidence in a coaching staff if I watched a game where they lost by 50 an looked well coached than a team that lost by 1 and looke poorly coached. This team has been losing and looks poorly coached.
 

Rosemountian said:
It doesn't matter if they lose by 50 or lose by 1.

I'd have more confidence in a coaching staff if I watched a game where they lost by 50 an looked well coached than a team that lost by 1 and looke poorly coached. This team has been losing and looks poorly coached.
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Example of a team that lost by 50 & looked good???
 

Buttcheeks McGaffigan said:
Your're right and I think that was overlooked by some people. I think he skipped at least a step on the coaching ladder. It doesn't mean he can't be successful at Minnesota. It's just the two recent examples of Urban Meyer and Brady Hoke went to the Mt. West schools before getting jobs at BCS schools.
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Brian Kelly went from MAC to BCS. Jim Tressel went from I-AA to BCS. Randy Walker went MAC to BCS and won a Big Ten title. Terry Hoepnner went MAC to BCS and led Indiana to first bowl in 14 years.
 

Golden gopher in two yrs. we won't have to worry about hiring a new coach. This guy will turn the ship in the 3rd and 4th yr. The anology to the basic training is right. Rosemt. you bring good discusions some times, but with the comments on the board on this topic, it is obvious that you have not worked with many kids in todays world. There are alot of good kids, but there are alot of time out kids that don't know what self dicipline is. Those that stay with kill will learn it. He knows how to coach and is not in over his head. He has given the upper classmen their chance and as shown in the 2nd half sat. more and more youn g kids that are not ready will get thrown to the wolves, and by 2013-14 they will be experienced and mature enough to make the U proud again.
 

littlebigboy said:
Golden gopher in two yrs. we won't have to worry about hiring a new coach. This guy will turn the ship in the 3rd and 4th yr. The anology to the basic training is right. Rosemt. you bring good discusions some times, but with the comments on the board on this topic, it is obvious that you have not worked with many kids in todays world. There are alot of good kids, but there are alot of time out kids that don't know what self dicipline is. Those that stay with kill will learn it. He knows how to coach and is not in over his head. He has given the upper classmen their chance and as shown in the 2nd half sat. more and more youn g kids that are not ready will get thrown to the wolves, and by 2013-14 they will be experienced and mature enough to make the U proud again.
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so it will take 3-4 years for our fanbase to see positive individual progress on the field? i just want to see this team look like they are getting better...didnt think i would have to wait years for the gophers to look like they are learning...i guess i will come back in 2014
 

thailleagle said:
Example of a team that lost by 50 & looked good???
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South Dakota just lost by 40 something to Wisconsin. And while I wouldn't say they looked good, I wouldn't say they looked like they had a bad gameplan, unmotivated players, and a poorly coached team.
 

Lakes, it won't take 3-4 yrs to see improvement, but to make us proud it will.
 

littlebigboy said:
Lakes, it won't take 3-4 yrs to see improvement, but to make us proud it will.
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give me one thing that is better from week 1 to week 5? i just want to believe these kids are learning how to get better from week to week and i dont believe that is happening right now. give me a group that is doing things better to make our team better...


dont worry, i'll wait!
 

Rosemountian said:
It doesn't matter if they lose by 50 or lose by 1.

I'd have more confidence in a coaching staff if I watched a game where they lost by 50 an looked well coached than a team that lost by 1 and looke poorly coached. This team has been losing and looks poorly coached.
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You appear to be a coaching legend in your own mind. We understand you don't like the current coaching staff. Who besides yourself should have been the Gopher hire?
 

tap said:
You appear to be a coaching legend in your own mind. We understand you don't like the current coaching staff. Who besides yourself should have been the Gopher hire?
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I have no idea. Maybe kill was the best we could do. I don't know who was available who wanted to have a conversation with the U. I don't know how much money they had to work with. Without knowing this kind of detail it'd be impossible to say who should have been hired.

As I said, maybe he is the best we could do.
That still wouldn't make it a good hire.
I didn't call it a bad hire either, I just said I didn't like the hire and I have yet to see anything that moves me towards the positive.



I love how to go to response to rip someone who rips the coaching staff is to say "why didn't they hire you." I've already explained why someone who isn't a college football coach might still know something about football. I know there have been times where I have been in situations where a high school coach might be a better coach for something than a college coach. There are times when parents can make a point and be right about something. People are too obsessed with someone being right and someone being wrong. Someone being smart and someone being bad.

Me saying kill and his staff have done a terrible job thus far does not equal me saying they are bad coaches. But it is very true in my opinion.
Me saying I didn't like the hire and I still don't like the hire doesn't mean it was a bad hire, maybe it was the best we could do by far and maturi hit it out of the park. Maybe I am wrong and they are doing a great job. Maybe I just don't see it.
 

Rosemountian said:
I have no idea. Maybe kill was the best we could do. I don't know who was available who wanted to have a conversation with the U. I don't know how much money they had to work with. Without knowing this kind of detail it'd be impossible to say who should have been hired.

As I said, maybe he is the best we could do.
That still wouldn't make it a good hire.
I didn't call it a bad hire either, I just said I didn't like the hire and I have yet to see anything that moves me towards the positive.



I love how to go to response to rip someone who rips the coaching staff is to say "why didn't they hire you." I've already explained why someone who isn't a college football coach might still know something about football. I know there have been times where I have been in situations where a high school coach might be a better coach for something than a college coach. There are times when parents can make a point and be right about something. People are too obsessed with someone being right and someone being wrong. Someone being smart and someone being bad.

Me saying kill and his staff have done a terrible job thus far does not equal me saying they are bad coaches. But it is very true in my opinion.
Me saying I didn't like the hire and I still don't like the hire doesn't mean it was a bad hire, maybe it was the best we could do by far and maturi hit it out of the park. Maybe I am wrong and they are doing a great job. Maybe I just don't see it.
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Rosemountain, I think we all agree the results are lousy through 5 games. But I don't think in this case that equates to proof these guys can't coach. There are some people who are very difficult for anybody who considers themselves a good coach to reach. Some people won't let you coach them. They won't listen. Nothing else explains to me why we have nobody who makes plays.

Sports is contagious. If guys you are counting on to make positive plays keep making bad plays, everybody panics and loses confidence and it snowballs. We start poorly every game. Nobody on the field rallies us with any consistency. Not many have the capability...not many candidates. Gray has to play well for us to be good as a team. Somebody on defense needs to make plays in a row. Not just one big hit, one tackle for a loss, one fumble recovery, one interception but a game of plays. Nobody is "playin". Until somebody does we will have no confidence and the coaches will look like they suck.

Try to figure out our MVP? We have nobody that has strung any plays together.
Gray is it and he only can stay on the field part time. Somebody on the field has to help!
 

+1 to the OP. 2 things came to mind watching the game.
1. Watching Kyle Henderson act like he just made the play of the day by breaking up a pass on a first or second down, when they hadn't stopped Michigan's offense the entire day, screams Brewster mentality.
2. The only guys that I have been impressed watching are the guys that Kill brought in or kept in the freshman class.(Moulton, Jones, etc.)
For me that about sums up what has to happen for this team to be successful in the future. It's not happening this year. It just isn't.
 

Did you read the post you quoted right there 60s guy. I said they have done a terrible job so far. I said that doesn't mean they are bad coaches. If you wanna argue that they've done anything other than a terrible job on the field so far go ahead. If you wanna argue that they aren't bad coaches, you are arguing against a claim that I never made.
 

Arbogast said:
+1 to the OP. 2 things came to mind watching the game.
1. Watching Kyle Henderson act like he just made the play of the day by breaking up a pass on a first or second down, when they hadn't stopped Michigan's offense the entire day, screams Brewster mentality.
2. The only guys that I have been impressed watching are the guys that Kill brought in or kept in the freshman class.(Moulton, Jones, etc.)
For me that about sums up what has to happen for this team to be successful in the future. It's not happening this year. It just isn't.
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This. I think some of the Brewster guys can't handle the new approach being taken by the program. Sadly, watching them on the field and on the sideline, I don't even see any fght in some of the players. I may be mistaken, but I feel like many are just going through the motions.
 

year of the gopher said:
This. I think some of the Brewster guys can't handle the new approach being taken by the program. Sadly, watching them on the field and on the sideline, I don't even see any fght in some of the players. I may be mistaken, but I feel like many are just going through the motions.
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One thing everyone should agree on regarding the Brewster to Kill transition: Kill gives us less "WTF" moments than Brewster.
 

Who cares if the freshmen are putting in the effort when the more capable seniors are not. These guys are obviously making a statement right now and to just replace them is to put Jerry Kill in front of the program instead of the students. Jerry Kill did no evaluation of the culture when he sold Maturi on bringing in wholesale change with a completly new staff, of which no evaluation by Jerry Kill was done to assess their capabilities to challenge the best of the BCS. Kill intended to make wholesale cultural changes as well and with it he did not even allow an assessment of its impact on the team on any real basis. Implement blindly, implement blindly, implement blindly. Well, the fruit of that is evident now that we have massive penalties, illegal formations, too many in the backfield of a punt formation that receives more team preparation time than in any team in recent memory. These are not coaching mistakes, they are deliberate player mistakes. But, I believe the blame is squarely on that academic honor roll guy, Jerry Kill (nope, he never was on the honor roll!) for simply putting the dynamite to the culture and system without addressing the present situation. Now that we are close to regressing from last years record, how is it that the team has improved? Nobody has yet to address how that is showing up anywhere. Where is the improvement? Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Name the improvement! Not going to happen anytime soon, because it does not exist. We are paying this guy to destroy this year in the HOPE that next year will bring promise. This guy is a snake oil salesman worse than Brewster because he is allowed to destroy a program to "build it up out of concrete." Well folks, I have worked with a lot of concrete and there is good concrete and there is really bad concrete. We don't have the good kind here. It is time to push for a new AD who can not be hoodwinked by the schiesters who claim coaching prowess and only do harm to the program. Let there not be a round three of the bad hire.
 

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