Somebody Should Be Fired

[tikited]

Would you/should you be afraid of playing @ Ohio St. this weekend? As already mentioned, UNC would be even/slight favorites hosting Ohio St. this weekend. Wrap your mind around that.

No matter what the line would be...UNC is not even close to OSU-Mich.-Wisc.-etc... Put them in the BIG and they would fall to the bottom quickly. Could they beat OSU this year? Sure why not? Would they be able to sustain that type of success in the long run? I highly doubt it.

This move reeks of fear and that is o.k. for some I guess. Why would I feel any differently about this when I can't stand what Tubby does with his strategy of no-names being scheduled at the barn?

It is what it is I guess.

 

[Gopherprof]

So it's not at all about winning football games and turning the program around? Great, I'll cancel my season tickets and start following the Vikings.

You use that money to improve the team so that you can win football games and turn the program around.

That said, you're welcome to spend your money wherever you damn please. If your only consideration was spending money on a winning product, I don't know why you became a Gophers fan in the first place.

 

[John Galt]

I'll say it again, for the people who clearly didn't get the message the first 8,000 times I said it:

Deal With Things As They Are, Not As You Would Like Them To Be

We all wish we had as good of a football team as UNC does, but wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and let me know which fills up first. Whining and crying about this NSIC/MIAC nonsense is just ignoring reality. We would almost certainly be beaten handily in a road game at UNC next year. Whine about it all you want, but it is a fact.

So if Colorado St. has a good team in 2014, let's pay them $1 million to cancel the game the following year because we might get beat. Got it.

 

[John Galt]

You use that money to improve the team so that you can win football games and turn the program around.

That said, you're welcome to spend your money wherever you damn please. If your only consideration was spending money on a winning product, I don't know why you became a Gophers fan in the first place.

Why would they use the money to invest in the team? You just said it was all about the University making money. UNC would bring in more cash than whoever we will get to replace them, so it's obviously not just about the money.

 

[dpodoll68]

Why would I feel any differently about this when I can't stand what Tubby does with his strategy of no-names being scheduled at the barn?

That's different, though. Minnesota basketball is generally better than Minnesota football, and we would be on a 4-year Tournament streak currently if not for injuries. And Tubby could stand a lot better competition in most of the non-con games. Minnesota hasn't lost a non-con home game (36-0) under Tubby. The football analogue for Tubby's non-con would be to play 4 home games against USD every year.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

I'll say it again, for the people who clearly didn't get the message the first 8,000 times I said it:

Deal With Things As They Are, Not As You Would Like Them To Be

We all wish we had as good of a football team as UNC does, but wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and let me know which fills up first. Whining and crying about this NSIC/MIAC nonsense is just ignoring reality. We would almost certainly be beaten handily in a road game at UNC next year. Whine about it all you want, but it is a fact.

The only thing I'll ask on that is with UNC going on probation next year and coach Kill being in his third year with more upperclassmen starting, would you still expect the Saragin ratings to predict a 2 TD loss? And what about the year after when the U faces them at home and has a high majority of Kill's players in place?

I'm not going to say the U is as good as UNC. I'm not going to say there isn't a significant chance we would lose next year. But the frustration starts coming in when a coach/AD is saying in the coach's third and fourth years that they won't be able to compete with an upper-middle ACC team on probation. And I'm nearly positive he specifically said the word "compete" or "competitive" not "win". And to say you want to build players' confidence when in the same speech you tell them they can't "compete" with UNC.

If they said this was all about money due to an extra home game this would be a much tamer discussion, if any. But to set expectations so low as to say we can't be competitive with any team on our schedule is awful.

 

[dpodoll68]

So if Colorado St. has a good team in 2014, let's pay them $1 million to cancel the game the following year because we might get beat. Got it.

We're not talking about 2014. And if Colorado St. has a top 25 Sagarin team next year, let's look at it then.

 

[Gopherprof]

Why would they use the money to invest in the team? You just said it was all about the University making money. UNC would bring in more cash than whoever we will get to replace them, so it's obviously not just about the money.

No, I never said it was.

But you asked why we don't just pull out of the Big Ten, and one big reason is obviously money. If the only concern is playing a competitive schedule we would have dropped down to the MAC a long time ago, where we would have a shot at winning a championship every year. (Academics and prestige are also helped immensely by being in the Big Ten, so I understand that's not all about money either)

Dropping UNC is a financial and public relations hit that the program can stomach. Leaving the Big Ten is obviously not.

 

[tikited]

The football analogue for Tubby's non-con would be to play 4 home games against USD every year.

And I wouldn't really enjoy that. A few of you would but most would see it for what it is. Nothing to do about it except argue on a message board, but I really hope we don't become afraid of Colorado State any time soon.

 

[dpodoll68]

The only thing I'll ask on that is with UNC going on probation next year and coach Kill being in his third year with more upperclassmen starting, would you still expect the Saragin ratings to predict a 2 TD loss? And what about the year after when the U faces them at home and has a high majority of Kill's players in place?

I'm sure in an ideal world, we'd play home vs. UNC in 2013 and @ UNC in 2014 (or even better, the same in 2014/2015), but I'm guessing those options weren't on the table.

And the probation is a non-starter in my opinion. They're on probation right now. They have 82 instead of 85 scholarship players in 2012, 2013, and 2014. BFD.

 

[dpodoll68]

And I wouldn't really enjoy that. A few of you would but most would see it for what it is. Nothing to do about it except argue on a message board, but I really hope we don't become afraid of Colorado State any time soon.

No, I wouldn't enjoy it either. For one thing, only one I-AA victory per year counts for bowl eligibility. And I don't like it when people think this is some sort of slippery slope. In this particular situation, @UNC in 2013, we had very little upside potential and a huge risk of getting destroyed, leading to not getting a better bowl bid, or perhaps not even getting a bowl bid at all.

 

[Triple D]

I'll say it again, for the people who clearly didn't get the message the first 8,000 times I said it:

Deal With Things As They Are, Not As You Would Like Them To Be

We all wish we had as good of a football team as UNC does, but wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and let me know which fills up first. Whining and crying about this NSIC/MIAC nonsense is just ignoring reality. We would almost certainly be beaten handily in a road game at UNC next year. Whine about it all you want, but it is a fact.

This isn't the kind of message our future recruits need to hear. Why would anyone think about coming here when we are afraid of playing top level competition. Hmmm, I could play at Minnesota when I know I'll be playing at 11 a.m every week against some no name team, or I could play for someone else on a team that gets more exposure and isn't afraid to coach me up and make me better with an attitude that we aren't afraid to play anyone. Isn't the message that we aren't good enough and might never be, it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[John Galt]

No, I never said it was.

But you asked why we don't just pull out of the Big Ten, and one big reason is obviously money. If the only concern is playing a competitive schedule we would have dropped down to the MAC a long time ago, where we would have a shot at winning a championship every year. (Academics and prestige are also helped immensely by being in the Big Ten, so I understand that's not all about money either)

Dropping UNC is a financial and public relations hit that the program can stomach. Leaving the Big Ten is obviously not.

You absolutely just said it was. Let me remind you:

"We're in the Big Ten because it makes the university a lot of money. From a competitive standpoint in football, we haven't been relevant for 40+ years. I'm not saying we should throw the towel in on the league, but the biggest advantage we get from being involved in the B1G sure as hell isn't competitive balance.

 

[Gopherprof]

You absolutely just said it was. Let me remind you:

"We're in the Big Ten because it makes the university a lot of money. From a competitive standpoint in football, we haven't been relevant for 40+ years. I'm not saying we should throw the towel in on the league, but the biggest advantage we get from being involved in the B1G sure as hell isn't competitive balance.

I didn't say that was the only reason, but it's certainly the biggest one. But if you want to argue semantics instead of the actual issue, that's up to you. I thought you were going to start following the Vikings instead anyway?

 

[Maximus]

This isn't the kind of message our future recruits need to hear. Why would anyone think about coming here when we are afraid of playing top level competition. Hmmm, I could play at Minnesota when I know I'll be playing at 11 a.m every week against some no name team.

Indiana played Indiana State and Ball State at 7 pm, not 11.

Minnesota played three non bcs non conference games in 2011...none were at 11 am.

Minnesota played 8th ranked California in 2009 at 11 am.

Try harder.

 

[Pewterschmidt]

1. UNC lost to Wake Forest this year. Wake Forest sucks.
2. Everyone is assuming UNC will be as good, if not better in year 2 of the sanctions, which also includes a bowl ban. Things tend to get worse before they get better.

The '13 and '14 versions of the UNC team are ripe for the picking. Especially considering it would be year 3 and 4 of the Kill regime where it's almost entirely made of up "his" players. Scared of taking on an average BCS program with bowl bans in year 3 and 4? U.G.L.Y. and no amount of excuses will make up for that fact. Now add in we're paying 800k to cancel the series and the perception hit to the program and it's just and awful, awful, awful, awful, awful move. Then add in the only real benefit is getting bowl eligible for a lower tier crappy bowl game like Little Caesar's in Detroit(Bowl execs for real bowls don't care about going 4-0 against cupcakes. They want to see how you travel, conference record, and who you beat, in that order) and that only positive reason is so small on the scale of turning around a program that it's mind-blowing someone would think this is a great idea. Not to mention the devaluing of the season ticket. Gopher FB is not immune to economic principles. Decreasing demand and increasing the supply does no one any good. Yesterday was an awful day for the program.

/end rant

 

[50PoundHead]

At best, this is a very bad PR move.

Lou Nanne was on with Reusse (I had somehow left my radio on KSTP from listening to last night's baseball game, so don't worry, while I don't mind Reusse, I hate pretty much all sports talk radio) and that was the gist of his comments. So I agree with you and Louie nokomismod.

We win some football games and this all goes away, but it sure looks lame right now. There may be reasons for it, but I don't buy the lack of depth BS. Kids get hurt in any football game; doesn't matter who the competition is.

PS--Nanne gave props to Teague for protecting his coach.

 

[dpodoll68]

Scared of taking on an average BCS program

They're not average this year. No reason to think they will be next year, either. They currently start 4 seniors on offense and 3 on defense.

with bowl bans in year 3 and 4

Irrelevant. 2012 OSU is on a bowl ban too. So were 2010 and 2011 USC. I suppose you want to argue that they are/were average BCS programs?

 

[Pewterschmidt]

They're not average this year. No reason to think they will be next year, either. They currently start 4 seniors on offense and 3 on defense.



Irrelevant. 2012 OSU is on a bowl ban too. So were 2010 and 2011 USC. I suppose you want to argue that they are/were average BCS programs?

STOP USING tOSU AND USC AND COMPARABLES. MAKES YOU LOOK FOOLISH!

Some programs deal with bans better than others. THE tOSU's and USC's OF THE WORLD CAN SKATE BY. UNC IS NOT tOSU or USC. NOT NOW. NOT YESTERDAY. NOT TOMORRROW.

 

[dpodoll68]

STOP USING tOSU AND USC AND COMPARABLES. MAKES YOU LOOK FOOLISH!

NOT LOOKING AT STATISTICS AND SEEING WHAT THEY TELL YOU IS FOOLISH, IN ADDITION TO PRETENDING THAT UNC SUCKS AT FOOTBALL.

Some programs deal with bans better than others. THE tOSU's and USC's OF THE WORLD CAN SKATE BY. UNC IS NOT tOSU or USC. NOT NOW. NOT YESTERDAY. NOT TOMORRROW.

I NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE BOWL BAN AS THOUGH IT'S A DEATH SENTENCE FOR THE QUALITY OF FOOTBALL BEING PLAYED BY A TEAM.

 

[Pewterschmidt]

NOT LOOKING AT STATISTICS AND SEEING WHAT THEY TELL YOU IS FOOLISH, IN ADDITION TO PRETENDING THAT UNC SUCKS AT FOOTBALL.



I NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE BOWL BAN AS THOUGH IT'S A DEATH SENTENCE FOR THE QUALITY OF FOOTBALL BEING PLAYED BY A TEAM.

Show me where I said Death Sentence. Also, you compared the bowl bans of UNC to tOSU and USC. This is a direct comparision and denying so makes you even more foolish (if that's possible):
"2012 OSU is on a bowl ban too. So were 2010 and 2011 USC. I suppose you want to argue that they are/were average BCS programs?"

I'll say it again. UNC is exactly the type of BCS program we should be scheduling. They're not USC and they're not Duke. They're in the middle. Then add in that they are on a multi-year bowl ban and that we'll be in years 3 and 4 of the Kill regime and it's perfect!.

Then we go and do what we did yesterday. So stupid.

 

[Gopherprof]

I'll say it again. UNC is exactly the type of BCS program we should be scheduling. They're not USC and they're not Duke. They're in the middle.

The problem is that we are Duke, or at least much closer to Duke than to UNC.

We start every season being the underdog (sometimes huge underdog) in 5-7 of the Big Ten games we play. If the goal is to make a bowl every year, I can understand why they wouldn't want to play another game where we are the underdog.

I'll put myself in the camp that this is an embarrassing move, and one that we shouldn't have made. What I don't understand are the people who fail to see the logic in it, or who somehow think we're on UNC's level, despite no evidence to support that assertion.

 

[dpodoll68]

UNC is exactly the type of BCS program we should be scheduling.

What type is that, exactly? One that we have a 5-10% chance of beating?

They're in the middle.

Again - no, they are not.

add in that they are on a multi-year bowl ban

Link? Pretty sure they're only banned from the postseason this year. Also, again, bowl bans are almost entirely irrelevant to the quality of football being played on the field.

and that we'll be in years 3 and 4 of the Kill regime and it's perfect!

This series wasn't scheduled because UNC is a beatable opponent. It was scheduled because Brewster started his college coaching career there. I can name at least 20 AQ teams that are far more "perfect" for us than UNC was at the time of scheduling or is now.

 

[howeda7]

Let's say we continue to lose STH and only have 25,000 in '13. 25000 x $35 is $875,000 in ticket sales only from STH.
That's a Gross of $875,000 before any $ is spent on anything else. It's almost all coming back when you factor in the savings of traveling to UNC

No it's not. Consider:

Scenerio A: Play UNC. No payout to either school. In 2013 we spend $50K to travel. In 2014 we make 50,000 x $35 for $1,750,000. The net for both years is $1,700,000.

Scenerio B: We play Cupcake U both years. It draws 40,000 fans at $35 for $1,400,000. However, we pay Cupcake U $350,000. So our net is $1,050,000 x 2 or $2,100,000.

Secerio C: Same as B, but we pay UNC $800,000 to bail out of a series we already agreed to. Net drops to $1,300,000. So we're out $400,000 versus if we'd played the games and the full $800,000 versus if we'd simply scheduled Cupcake U to begin with. Either way, this is pathetic.

 

[dpodoll68]

In 2013 we spend $50K to travel.

As an aside from all of this nonsense, I'm curious what it costs to fly to an away game. It has to be a lot more than $50 k. If you figure a traveling party of 100 with 70 players, the coaches, trainers, administrators, assorted hangers-on, etc., that's only $500/person for airfare, hotel, and food. It has to be significantly more than that, doesn't it?

 

[OddStack]

No it's not. Consider:

Scenerio A: Play UNC. No payout to either school. In 2013 we spend $50K to travel. In 2014 we make 50,000 x $35 for $1,750,000. The net for both years is $1,700,000.

Scenerio B: We play Cupcake U both years. It draws 40,000 fans at $35 for $1,400,000. However, we pay Cupcake U $350,000. So our net is $1,050,000 x 2 or $2,100,000.

Secerio C: Same as B, but we pay UNC $800,000 to bail out of a series we already agreed to. Net drops to $1,300,000. So we're out $400,000 versus if we'd played the games and the full $800,000 versus if we'd simply scheduled Cupcake U to begin with. Either way, this is pathetic.

I was being wwaayyy conservative, and I think you're being real aggressive.
--Awful aggressive thinking 50k @ $35 a piece....how about 45k @ $35 and 5K @ $10 like we had for Syracuse this year.
--350k? really NMSU has no leg to stand on if it's them
--underselling even cupcakes @ 40k...we've always sold more tix than that...granted they don't all show up.

Also, don't forget concessions...even if you do $5 per person (which is more than conservative) there's another 200k.

Like I said...it's almost all coming back to the U. Add parking (not athletic revenue from what I understand) and there's another 90k+ if there's 4 to a car.

 

[Weddings and Steak Frys]

Like I said...it's almost all coming back to the U. Add parking (not athletic revenue from what I understand) and there's another 90k+ if there's 4 to a car.

You cannot say this at this time. One of the reasons I like DPO event though I don't always agree with him is that he uses facts to support his arguments. I may not always agree with his conclusions, but I do respect his arguments. That said, there is NO ONE WHO CAN SAY WE BREAK EVEN!!! Why? THERE IS NO HOME GAME SCHEDULED. NORWOOD TEAGUE HAD MANY OPPORTUNITIES WHILE DISCUSSING THIS TO MINIMALLY SAY "WE ARE REPLACING UNC WITH A HOME GAME". He passed at each opportunity. Until we are certain there is a home game coming you cannot make any legitimate argument regarding finances. That is to say, until it is confirmed by AD Teague- there is no home game. There is no revenue. Your numbers are meaningless speculation. There are no guarantees that we are getting a home game from anyone at this time. At this time what we actually know is this: Both Teague and Coach Kill have stated publicly that we have dropped UNC because we feel we would be better served playing a lesser team for both remaining healthy and building confidence. We have agreed to pay UNC $800,000.00 to do so. That is it. Please stop with the scenario's where we make money or break even as if it is a certainty we get a home game. That is nothing more than speculation at this point. If you have proof we have a home deal signed (or even alluded to by our AD beyond a "we're hoping to get a home game to replace UNC), post it otherwise you are simply spouting what you wish for rather than the reality that is!" (c) dpodoll.

 

[OddStack]

You cannot say this at this time. One of the reasons I like DPO event though I don't always agree with him is that he uses facts to support his arguments. I may not always agree with his conclusions, but I do respect his arguments. That said, there is NO ONE WHO CAN SAY WE BREAK EVEN!!! Why? THERE IS NO HOME GAME SCHEDULED. NORWOOD TEAGUE HAD MANY OPPORTUNITIES WHILE DISCUSSING THIS TO MINIMALLY SAY "WE ARE REPLACING UNC WITH A HOME GAME". He passed at each opportunity. Until we are certain there is a home game coming you cannot make any legitimate argument regarding finances. That is to say, until it is confirmed by AD Teague- there is no home game. There is no revenue. Your numbers are meaningless speculation. There are no guarantees that we are getting a home game from anyone at this time. At this time what we actually know is this: Both Teague and Coach Kill have stated publicly that we have dropped UNC because we feel we would be better served playing a lesser team for both remaining healthy and building confidence. We have agreed to pay UNC $800,000.00 to do so. That is it. Please stop with the scenario's where we make money or break even as if it is a certainty we get a home game. That is nothing more than speculation at this point. If you have proof we have a home deal signed (or even alluded to by our AD beyond a "we're hoping to get a home game to replace UNC), post it otherwise you are simply spouting what you wish for rather than the reality that is!" (c) dpodoll.

This is the assumption I made under the NT press thread...I didn't want to type it again...IT WAS THE ASSUMPTION OF THE EXTRA GAME AND HOW TEAGUE COULD PAY FOR IT. Thinking outside the box rather than complaining.




Originally Posted by GopherGod
"I would love to hear more from Teague on how they will cover the buyout if not with booster donations, will this be another dip into the university general fund? If so, good luck Kaler with the legislature when it comes time for you to go asking for more money. It seems like more of an indictment of Kill's coaching if this is so fragile in years 3 and 4 of his tenure that they cannot handle potentially losing to UNC. If I was a big time donor, this is when I would close my checkbook because they clearly don't need the money for facility upgrades if they can afford to do this."

MY REPLY:
I wonder too, but that got me to thinking more...

Let's be conservative with the assumed extra home game we'll get next year.

Let's say we continue to lose STH and only have 25,000 in '13. 25000 x $35 is $875,000 in ticket sales only from STH. Let's figure there are 4 to a car, that's 6,250 cars. Multiply that by $15 per spot for the game (some less $10...some spots more $25). That's another $93,750 only from STH.

That's a Gross of $968,750 before any $ is spent on anything else for an extra game. We likely have to pay the other team as it won't likely be a home/home.

This makes me feel as though there's not a lot of the 800k that won't be coming back. It likely makes money when you figure the travel costs saved in not making a trip to UNC.

 

[lakesgopher]

They're not average this year. No reason to think they will be next year, either. They currently start 4 seniors on offense and 3 on defense.

Irrelevant. 2012 OSU is on a bowl ban too. So were 2010 and 2011 USC. I suppose you want to argue that they are/were average BCS programs?

UNC is a 5-2 average team. They haven't beaten anyone legit and were beat by a terrible wake team. V tech was overrated, Miami is terrible, an they throttled a bunch of cupcakes. If you are basing your comment of "they're not average this year" comment based off their record then the gophers aren't average either.

 

[dpodoll68]

UNC is a 5-2 average team.

Not according to statistics. I'll take statistics over the word of an anonymous message board rube. But thanks anyway.

then the gophers aren't average either

Who said they were? They are well below average, and have been most years since at least 1967.