Some Thursday night practice takes

Athan has best arm talent at QB, on Gophers team. He can fit windows, and make throws the other two QB's cannot and the kid can run. No cement shoes there. In order for this program to take that next level step you need a special talent at QB. I will take talent and ability over volume and leadership intangibles every day of the week and twice on Sundays in development. Those other two things are learned and coached behaviors. That stuff is coaches responsibility to draw it out and demand it from the QB. The other two guys are decent enough QB's, but they are not game changers with arm strength or throwing ability. Doesn't mean they cannot win with the tools they have, just means they cannot make the most difficult throws.
 

Not only that, but every fan base in the history of college and NFL football wants the backup QB to start.

And... throw to the tight ends more.

It's a wonder coaches everywhere repeatedly fail to see this stuff.
 

Not only that, but every fan base in the history of college and NFL football wants the backup QB to start.

And... throw to the tight ends more.

It's a wonder coaches everywhere repeatedly fail to see this stuff.
This was my favorite back in 2019 - we had 2 of the best WR in the country, a highly efficient and effective offense, but people still complained that we didn't utilize the TE.
 

Athan has best arm talent at QB, on Gophers team. He can fit windows, and make throws the other two QB's cannot and the kid can run. No cement shoes there. In order for this program to take that next level step you need a special talent at QB. I will take talent and ability over volume and leadership intangibles every day of the week and twice on Sundays in development. Those other two things are learned and coached behaviors. That stuff is coaches responsibility to draw it out and demand it from the QB. The other two guys are decent enough QB's, but they are not game changers with arm strength or throwing ability. Doesn't mean they cannot win with the tools they have, just means they cannot make the most difficult throws.
Ryan Leaf had more arm talent and mobility than Peyton Manning.
 

This was my favorite back in 2019 - we had 2 of the best WR in the country, a highly efficient and effective offense, but people still complained that we didn't utilize the TE.
Yep, there are some people that just have to find something to complain about. Never quite understood the logic that we should take receptions away from Bateman/TJ in order to get more balls to the TE.
 


Yep, there are some people that just have to find something to complain about. Never quite understood the logic that we should take receptions away from Bateman/TJ in order to get more balls to the TE.
Especially when we had CAB as a damn good #3!
 

Yep, there are some people that just have to find something to complain about. Never quite understood the logic that we should take receptions away from Bateman/TJ in order to get more balls to the TE.
I love PJ. I am very happy with our play and outcome in 2019 (and 2021). So, I am not "complaining." But it is just a total logical fallacy that, for the Gophers to have thrown a bit more to TEs in 2019, the coaches would have to take away receptions away from Bateman and TJ. We might have had reasons not to throw much to TEs in 2019--didn't trust talent as receivers?--but it doesn't logically follow that throwing more to TEs would have decreased throws to the WRs. Offensive play calling isn't a zero sum game.

In In 2019, the Gophers attempted (per game average) 24.8 passing plays (36.5%) and 43.1 running plays (63.5%), for a total average of 67.9 plays per game.

One very simple way to increase TE opportunities without robbing the WRs is to run a few more plays instead of running the play clock down on every play. In 2019 Ohio State averaged 28.9 passing plays and 47.1 running plays per game--essentially the same run/pass ratio as the Gophers--but for a higher average of 76.0 plays per game. In 2019, the Gophers averaged 33:52 minutes time of possession; Ohio State averaged 31:46 minutes T/O/P. Speed up the pace a bit, run a few more plays, and you could have easily and significantly included Gopher TEs in the offense without robbing Bateman and TJ of passes. Of course, Ohio State runs a high-powered offense that beats you using prolific, quick-strike scoring rather than time of possession.

In 2019, Michigan and Penn State ran their offenses more like the Gophers, averaging respectively 69.3 and 67.7 plays per game. Each team, though running conservative offenses, passed more than the Gophers--by using a more balanced run/pass allocation. Michigan passed 31.5 times and ran 37.8 times per game. Penn State passed 28.4 times and ran 39.3 times per game. Using this model (essentially same conservative number of plays per game as the Gophers), several opportunities for TEs could have been found by moving to a slightly more balanced offense and borrowing a few running plays (not taking away receptions from Bateman or TJ). I concede that Michigan and Penn State, by de-emphasizing the run a bit, did lose some time of possession: Michigan had 29:31 and Penn State only 27:58 (you've got to complete some of those extra passes!) The Ohio State model--run more plays--is probably a better way to get some extra passes per game.

2019 worked well for the Gophers and I wouldn't change anything. The coaches used a run/pass allocation that suited our top-end talents and de-emphasized perceived weaknesses, and maximized time of possession by emphasizing running plays (clock doesn't stop) and by attenuating snap counts. But in 2019 we could easily have used TEs more as receivers without robbing WRs of a single pass or reception. We just chose to utilize our TEs essentially as blockers, not receivers.

This year, I hope we throw a lot to CAB, Dylan W and other WRs ... but hope we don't make the same choice to marginalize TEs as receivers that we did in 2019. BSF has too much talent as a tough match-up receiver to be marginalized, and we simply don't need to take throws from WRs to include BSM in the offense. It isn't a zero sum game.
 

grumpy old man post:

among the new phrases in sports, one of the things that drives me nuts is "arm talent."

you can say the QB throws well, has a good arm, a strong arm, an accurate arm. those all tell me something.

but "arm talent?" that sounds like he does some kind of act in a talent show.

or he's going to follow the Unknown Comic on "The Gong Show," with Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine waiting in the wings.
 

Not only that, but every fan base in the history of college and NFL football wants the backup QB to start.

And... throw to the tight ends more.

It's a wonder coaches everywhere repeatedly fail to see this stuff.
That would be funny if it were true. But of course it's not. Fans of teams with dynamic offense which includes successful passing are quite pleased with their QBs and don't much care who is getting the ball.
 




I take it you didn’t spend much time around here back in 2019 based on that last point
Murray didn't say Gopher fans, he said fans of all teams. I corrected the obvious error.
 

I love PJ. I am very happy with our play and outcome in 2019 (and 2021). So, I am not "complaining." But it is just a total logical fallacy that, for the Gophers to have thrown a bit more to TEs in 2019, the coaches would have to take away receptions away from Bateman and TJ. We might have had reasons not to throw much to TEs in 2019--didn't trust talent as receivers?--but it doesn't logically follow that throwing more to TEs would have decreased throws to the WRs. Offensive play calling isn't a zero sum game.

In In 2019, the Gophers attempted (per game average) 24.8 passing plays (36.5%) and 43.1 running plays (63.5%), for a total average of 67.9 plays per game.

One very simple way to increase TE opportunities without robbing the WRs is to run a few more plays instead of running the play clock down on every play. In 2019 Ohio State averaged 28.9 passing plays and 47.1 running plays per game--essentially the same run/pass ratio as the Gophers--but for a higher average of 76.0 plays per game. In 2019, the Gophers averaged 33:52 minutes time of possession; Ohio State averaged 31:46 minutes T/O/P. Speed up the pace a bit, run a few more plays, and you could have easily and significantly included Gopher TEs in the offense without robbing Bateman and TJ of passes. Of course, Ohio State runs a high-powered offense that beats you using prolific, quick-strike scoring rather than time of possession.

In 2019, Michigan and Penn State ran their offenses more like the Gophers, averaging respectively 69.3 and 67.7 plays per game. Each team, though running conservative offenses, passed more than the Gophers--by using a more balanced run/pass allocation. Michigan passed 31.5 times and ran 37.8 times per game. Penn State passed 28.4 times and ran 39.3 times per game. Using this model (essentially same conservative number of plays per game as the Gophers), several opportunities for TEs could have been found by moving to a slightly more balanced offense and borrowing a few running plays (not taking away receptions from Bateman or TJ). I concede that Michigan and Penn State, by de-emphasizing the run a bit, did lose some time of possession: Michigan had 29:31 and Penn State only 27:58 (you've got to complete some of those extra passes!) The Ohio State model--run more plays--is probably a better way to get some extra passes per game.

2019 worked well for the Gophers and I wouldn't change anything. The coaches used a run/pass allocation that suited our top-end talents and de-emphasized perceived weaknesses, and maximized time of possession by emphasizing running plays (clock doesn't stop) and by attenuating snap counts. But in 2019 we could easily have used TEs more as receivers without robbing WRs of a single pass or reception. We just chose to utilize our TEs essentially as blockers, not receivers.

This year, I hope we throw a lot to CAB, Dylan W and other WRs ... but hope we don't make the same choice to marginalize TEs as receivers that we did in 2019. BSF has too much talent as a tough match-up receiver to be marginalized, and we simply don't need to take throws from WRs to include BSM in the offense. It isn't a zero sum game.
I just don't think it has been part of Fleck's or KC's offense. Maybe Spann-Ford changes that a bit, but I can't see vey many passes going his way...maybe 3-4 attempts a game if Gophs are passing more in a particular game. I loved the seam pass Kill had where the TE chip blocked and then released. That play had to have close to 100% completion rate for 7-15 yards. Always wide open.
 

Well when the TE is Maxx-level talent and caliber...which we don't have at this time at TE...then let'em loose. Williams was a clutch player and fun to watch. System and player were perfectly aligned for that season or two.
 



Not only that, but every fan base in the history of college and NFL football wants the backup QB to start.

And... throw to the tight ends more.

It's a wonder coaches everywhere repeatedly fail to see this stuff.
If my memory is right we played all of 2019 to set up the TE first hailf touchdown and the nice 4th down TE catch to seal the voctory against Auburn
 

grumpy old man post:

among the new phrases in sports, one of the things that drives me nuts is "arm talent."

you can say the QB throws well, has a good arm, a strong arm, an accurate arm. those all tell me something.

but "arm talent?" that sounds like he does some kind of act in a talent show.

or he's going to follow the Unknown Comic on "The Gong Show," with Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine waiting in the wings.

Mine is "room". i.e. "Tanner Morgan leads a strong quarterback room". "The running back room is stacked". "Coach Simon really has to get most out of his WR room".
 

Mine is "room". i.e. "Tanner Morgan leads a strong quarterback room". "The running back room is stacked". "Coach Simon really has to get most out of his WR room".
I’m watching the Bucs pregame show, and Tyler Johnson mentioned the depth of the wide receiver room. I can’t stand it either.

I also still can’t get over the word “physicality” that seemingly popped up over night a number of years ago in both basketball and football.
 

Athan has best arm talent at QB, on Gophers team. He can fit windows, and make throws the other two QB's cannot and the kid can run. No cement shoes there. In order for this program to take that next level step you need a special talent at QB. I will take talent and ability over volume and leadership intangibles every day of the week and twice on Sundays in development. Those other two things are learned and coached behaviors. That stuff is coaches responsibility to draw it out and demand it from the QB. The other two guys are decent enough QB's, but they are not game changers with arm strength or throwing ability. Doesn't mean they cannot win with the tools they have, just means they cannot make the most difficult throws.
Isn’t the next step Iowa and Wisconsin level? We’ve had better QB play than them already. So I don’t think a special QB talent is the key.
 

Mine is "room". i.e. "Tanner Morgan leads a strong quarterback room". "The running back room is stacked". "Coach Simon really has to get most out of his WR room".

It's all rooted in the NFL as they actually have different meeting/film rooms for each position group. At this point - not positive about the Gophers setup - a ton of college programs also have actual rooms for the different groups. So, IMO it kinda makes sense why they refer to the group as a "room".
 

He was on the field. He just didn’t get thrown to much. We threw very few passes in 2021.
He only started 3 games. We would have to look but I’d be willing to be the played less than half of the offensive snaps in 2022
 

BSF wasn’t good enough at blocking to take Kieft’s snaps. That doesn’t necessarily mean BSF isn’t a good blocker, but he probably wasn’t as good as Kieft at blocking last year, few if any were.
It meant he wasn’t good enough to get on the field as an every down player. Which is what I said
 

I don't see us using 7 OL formations this year.
Yeah that’s one reason I’m actually high on the OL this year.

Every hear the phrase if you have two QBs you don’t have any?

Well if you have 7 OL and a QB you only have 3 eligibles.
 

Randy chimes in:

* Notre Dame transfer Quinn Carroll got a longer look at right tackle, but Fleck indicated that position might be a job share among Carroll, Martes Lewis and JJ Guedet during the season.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that Carroll may be splitting time with Lewis and Guedet at RT this season. The more reps for all of them, the deeper and stronger the OL is going to be.

According to the Gophersports site, both Carroll and Guedet have 3 years of eligibility left and Lewis 4. Holy shit, I know some players got a break on COVID but that's a lot of years left for those guys at RT, if they stayed that long.
 


And I meant that he likely was good enough, but so we’re others on the team.
If he wasn’t playing because someone else was better than him, by definition he wasn’t good enough.

I’m not sure why this is so controversial to say.
Guy who didn’t play full time wasn’t good enough to get on field full time.
 

Mine is "room". i.e. "Tanner Morgan leads a strong quarterback room". "The running back room is stacked". "Coach Simon really has to get most out of his WR room".
Yes, that's the best one. A coach said it somewhere and all lemmings everywhere took it up. Silly. Who plays football in a room?
 


Ever hear anything about Ko K?
Yeah.and as good of a wideout as BSF is he couldn’t get on the field over KK because he wasn’t a good enough blocker to pass him on the depth chart.


How many times do i have to repeat myself?
 

If he wasn’t playing because someone else was better than him, by definition he wasn’t good enough.

I’m not sure why this is so controversial to say.
Guy who didn’t play full time wasn’t good enough to get on field full time.
You don’t understand how your wording led to all this? Obviously you are making it sound like he wasn’t good enough to be a worthy full time player, and he better have improved.
 

I’m watching the Bucs pregame show, and Tyler Johnson mentioned the depth of the wide receiver room. I can’t stand it either.

I also still can’t get over the word “physicality” that seemingly popped up over night a number of years ago in both basketball and football.
How about “strenth” it’s the same as “strength” but the “g” is silent. Weirdest damn thing now that everyone doesn’t pronounce the g. First heard it from Mel Kiper a number of years ago now everyone says it. Add the damn G!!!
 

How about “strenth” it’s the same as “strength” but the “g” is silent. Weirdest damn thing now that everyone doesn’t pronounce the g. First heard it from Mel Kiper a number of years ago now everyone says it. Add the damn G!!!
Great read on the mystery of the ages around silent letters in the English language...

 




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