So what now at QB - 2019 Class?

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Too early to tell if Fleck can or can’t recruit QBs to the U of M. If any of the three QBs they have now turn out to be beyond just good, and the Gophers are successful, then attracting QBs to Minnesota shouldn’t be a problem. But, we don’t know if that will happen so we’ll just have to wait and see, which is why I don’t get all worked up about things like this and post with ranting speculation.
Sometimes makes me wonder why I even come to the Gopher Hole. But, I suppose, that’s what fan forums are all about, correct? Hmmmm….
 

In judging Fleck's success on QB recruiting, what is going to be our agreed upon criteria for success?

Recruiting ranking of Top 10? Top 25 QB?

Wins? Regardless of whether the QB was highly recruited or not, does the starter win games? Enough to lead us to epic seasons?

Or maybe stats? Throw out wins and recruiting profiles, we want Fleck to recruit a QB who will lead the nation in passing yards and TD's?

Or maybe NFL draft success? We don't care if the QB wins games or what he was ranked when he was recruited, the truest measure will be if he is drafted in the first round of the NFL draft.

Or is it NFL success? Maybe he recruits Tom Brady, has almost ordinary college career, but blows up to be a good NFL QB. That would mean Fleck saw someone with potential, but due to issues outside of Fleck's control, the QB didn't fully develop until he became a pro under the right system.
 

Face The Facts said:
In judging Fleck's success on QB recruiting, what is going to be our agreed upon criteria for success?

Recruiting ranking of Top 10? Top 25 QB?

Wins? Regardless of whether the QB was highly recruited or not, does the starter win games? Enough to lead us to epic seasons?

Or maybe stats? Throw out wins and recruiting profiles, we want Fleck to recruit a QB who will lead the nation in passing yards and TD's?

Or maybe NFL draft success? We don't care if the QB wins games or what he was ranked when he was recruited, the truest measure will be if he is drafted in the first round of the NFL draft.

Or is it NFL success? Maybe he recruits Tom Brady, has almost ordinary college career, but blows up to be a good NFL QB. That would mean Fleck saw someone with potential, but due to issues outside of Fleck's control, the QB didn't fully develop until he became a pro under the right system.
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The only thing that should matter to anyone is the two that I put in bold.

With the "stats" portion - - I didn't care about putting up big numbers, I meant more like "is he statistically a good QB".

Recruiting a top 10/top 25 QB doesn't matter if he stinks. I don't understand why that would matter to anyone.
Conversely, if a lesser recruited QB becomes a good college QB (Morgan, Annexstad, Kramer) - - PJ should also get credit for the recruitment and development of that player.
So recruiting only matters because statistically improves your chances of success on the field, but the key litmus test is success on the field (Eric Decker was a better recruit than Hayo Carpenter).

Winning obviously matters and good QBs help you win more. So that's a legit rationale. It's possible to win with bad QB play, so it's not the end all-be all.

Stats? Yeah, a QB who can put up good stats also matters. I don't care about leading the nation in anything, but like a good completion percentage, low turnovers, yards, etc.

NFL draft success / NFL success? That's pretty meaningless. There are tons of great college QBs who are never drafted and never have much of an NFL career (see Zach Terrell)
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The only thing that should matter to anyone is the two that I put in bold.

With the "stats" portion - - I didn't care about putting up big numbers, I meant more like "is he statistically a good QB".

Recruiting a top 10/top 25 QB doesn't matter if he stinks. I don't understand why that would matter to anyone.
Conversely, if a lesser recruited QB becomes a good college QB (Morgan, Annexstad, Kramer) - - PJ should also get credit for the recruitment and development of that player.
So recruiting only matters because statistically improves your chances of success on the field, but the key litmus test is success on the field (Eric Decker was a better recruit than Hayo Carpenter).

Winning obviously matters and good QBs help you win more. So that's a legit rationale. It's possible to win with bad QB play, so it's not the end all-be all.

Stats? Yeah, a QB who can put up good stats also matters. I don't care about leading the nation in anything, but like a good completion percentage, low turnovers, yards, etc.

NFL draft success / NFL success? That's pretty meaningless. There are tons of great college QBs who are never drafted and never have much of an NFL career (see Zach Terrell)
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I agree with what you say although a completion percentage should be viewed with average yards the ball traveled.
 

At this point it is far more important to show our coaches develop QB talent and put them in a position to excel. NDSU was able to do it with Carson Wentz. Who is coming to a school that made Demry Croft what he was? 0-70?
 


it's a weird dichotomy. Before the player's career begins, it's all about the ratings - "he's a high 3 star." "he's a low 4-star."
If the Gophers sign some 4-star QB, the headlines will be "Gophers sign highly-rated QB prospect.

But, once the games actually begin, the rating doesn't matter any more, and it's all about performance. Throw for 300 yards and 4 TD's in a game, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had. Conversely, go 10-30 passing with 107 yards and 3 INT's, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had.

Bottom line - star ratings look good on signing day, but guarantee you nothing on game day.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The only thing that should matter to anyone is the two that I put in bold.

With the "stats" portion - - I didn't care about putting up big numbers, I meant more like "is he statistically a good QB".

Recruiting a top 10/top 25 QB doesn't matter if he stinks. I don't understand why that would matter to anyone.
Conversely, if a lesser recruited QB becomes a good college QB (Morgan, Annexstad, Kramer) - - PJ should also get credit for the recruitment and development of that player.
So recruiting only matters because statistically improves your chances of success on the field, but the key litmus test is success on the field (Eric Decker was a better recruit than Hayo Carpenter).

Winning obviously matters and good QBs help you win more. So that's a legit rationale. It's possible to win with bad QB play, so it's not the end all-be all.

Stats? Yeah, a QB who can put up good stats also matters. I don't care about leading the nation in anything, but like a good completion percentage, low turnovers, yards, etc.

NFL draft success / NFL success? That's pretty meaningless. There are tons of great college QBs who are never drafted and never have much of an NFL career (see Zach Terrell)
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I agree with what you are saying.
Issue is, it now will take us 5-6 years to determine if PJ is successful at the QB position.

First class (year zero) - Morgan
2017-2018 - Second class (first full year) - Annexstad / Vic
2018-2019 - Third class (first year of recruits with many of his guys on the field) - in progress
2019-2020 - Fourth class (at this point, the year zero class and first year class are all redshirt freshman, redshirt sophomores, sophomores, and juniors). If you're going to recruit a decent QB, this is your third full year to do it and fourth overall. Now just wait for that QB to hit the field and start showing results.

2020 Too early, that 2019-2020 QB is redshirting
2021 Maybe a redshirt freshman or sophomore
2022 RS soph or junior we should start to see whether anyone has traction or potential.


But if you want something to measure by in the short term, it's recruiting rankings unfortunately.
 

I believe that signing a higher profile QB, especially a 4 star will aid in recruiting other players. It is an important, high profile position.
For that reason alone a 4 star commit would be nice. That is not to say a 3 star doesn't turn out to be the best QB in the end. Happens all the time.
 

HolyCross66 said:
I believe that signing a higher profile QB, especially a 4 star will aid in recruiting other players. It is an important, high profile position.
For that reason alone a 4 star commit would be nice. That is not to say a 3 star doesn't turn out to be the best QB in the end. Happens all the time.
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Interesting that PJ offered 6 of the 7 players visiting in Iowa City on Friday. The one not offered is a 3/4 Star QB from Michigan. Iowa seems to be locked in as he is the only QB they have invited to their spring practice final. Kid by the name of Sam Johnson from Walled Lake, Mich. 6’4 pro style .
 



short ornery norwegian said:
it's a weird dichotomy. Before the player's career begins, it's all about the ratings - "he's a high 3 star." "he's a low 4-star."
If the Gophers sign some 4-star QB, the headlines will be "Gophers sign highly-rated QB prospect.

But, once the games actually begin, the rating doesn't matter any more, and it's all about performance. Throw for 300 yards and 4 TD's in a game, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had. Conversely, go 10-30 passing with 107 yards and 3 INT's, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had.

Bottom line - star ratings look good on signing day, but guarantee you nothing on game day.
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Post of the week for sure. Nail meet head.
 

New QB offer:

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Go Gophers!!
 

We have immediate playing time for Jalen Hurts...
 

Face The Facts said:
I agree with what you are saying.
Issue is, it now will take us 5-6 years to determine if PJ is successful at the QB position.

First class (year zero) - Morgan
2017-2018 - Second class (first full year) - Annexstad / Vic
2018-2019 - Third class (first year of recruits with many of his guys on the field) - in progress
2019-2020 - Fourth class (at this point, the year zero class and first year class are all redshirt freshman, redshirt sophomores, sophomores, and juniors). If you're going to recruit a decent QB, this is your third full year to do it and fourth overall. Now just wait for that QB to hit the field and start showing results.

2020 Too early, that 2019-2020 QB is redshirting
2021 Maybe a redshirt freshman or sophomore
2022 RS soph or junior we should start to see whether anyone has traction or potential.


But if you want something to measure by in the short term, it's recruiting rankings unfortunately.
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No, that's a horrible stance.

The short term is "we'll see".

Our highest rated QB recruit is third on the depth chart right now. We can be reasonable people and if Tanner Morgan looks OK next season, we can say things like "PJ seems to be doing a good job of building a QB". It's not unheard of for a third year SO (Morgan next season) to be a solid QB.

Why would we have to wait 5-6 years? By then, Vic and Morgan will have graduated. Annexstad will be a RS SR at best. Kramer will be a RS JR, whoever else we sign we wither be a RS SO or RS JR.

If our QB play still stinks in 3 years - - PJ deserves some criticism.
If our QB play stinks in 4 years - we can say that PJ failed at developing QB.
If it's still bad in 5-6 years - - he won't have a job.
 




short ornery norwegian said:
it's a weird dichotomy. Before the player's career begins, it's all about the ratings - "he's a high 3 star." "he's a low 4-star."
If the Gophers sign some 4-star QB, the headlines will be "Gophers sign highly-rated QB prospect.

But, once the games actually begin, the rating doesn't matter any more, and it's all about performance. Throw for 300 yards and 4 TD's in a game, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had. Conversely, go 10-30 passing with 107 yards and 3 INT's, and nobody gives a rat's buttocks about how many stars they had.

Bottom line - star ratings look good on signing day, but guarantee you nothing on game day.
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True, but 4-stars have a higher probability of succeeding than 3-stars, so getting more excited about a 4-star isn't weird.
 

We offered another QB. Jacob Clark, out of Texas.

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In a down year, college football teams are scrambling to land QB recruits. Let’s keep track as 2019 QB dominoes fall.

The quarterback recruit crop for 2019 is lacking in elite talent. That’s tough if your school needs to land one.

By Bud Elliott Apr 19, 2018, 11:19am EDT

Quarterback is the most important position in football. Most college programs want to carry four on scholarship, which means most schools will sign a QB every year.

Typically, only about 20 are rated four- or five-stars, so demand for elite QBs far outpaces supply. And teams usually do not move on from their No. 1 targets to accept a commitment from another until it is clear they are out of the running for their first choice. Lesser-rated recruits know this.

Given that teams rarely rotate quarterbacks, a top QB will often want to reserve his spot with the school of his choice. QB is also the noted position of leadership, so a committed QB often become a class’ lead recruiter.

Every year, we track the dominoes as they fall. QB1 picks school A, so School B moves on to QB2 as School C moves on to QB3. But then QB1 decommits from School A, and the cycle is thrown into chaos.

2019, though, seems a little different. The 2018 class was loaded with elite quarterbacks. Comparatively, the 2019 class looked a little light. And that was before JT Daniels, the No. 1 overall 2019 player, decided to skip his senior season and enroll at USC a year early. Now, the 2019 QB class is really lacking elites.

And that means teams who really need QBs are scrambling, while those who might not have such a need are considering waiting for 2020.


https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...7470/quarterback-recruits-2019-class-dominoes
 


Lordshawesome said:
We offered another QB. Jacob Clark, out of Texas.

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Interesting he's not much higher than Kramer. It will be interesting to see how he does at those camps as that could elevate his rankings for sure and we might have a situation another poster alluded to in that he may end up being a very good get.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Interesting he's not much higher than Kramer. <b>It will be interesting to see how he does at those camps as that could elevate his rankings for sure </b>and we might have a situation another poster alluded to in that <b>he may end up being a very good get</b>.
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Couldn't the first part be said about every single kid at every single camp? Isn't the opposite also true?

Why would his ranking make him any better of a get? Same kid.


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Bob_Loblaw said:
No, that's a horrible stance.

The short term is "we'll see".

Our highest rated QB recruit is third on the depth chart right now. We can be reasonable people and if Tanner Morgan looks OK next season, we can say things like "PJ seems to be doing a good job of building a QB". It's not unheard of for a third year SO (Morgan next season) to be a solid QB.

Why would we have to wait 5-6 years? By then, Vic and Morgan will have graduated. Annexstad will be a RS SR at best. Kramer will be a RS JR, whoever else we sign we wither be a RS SO or RS JR.

If our QB play still stinks in 3 years - - PJ deserves some criticism.
If our QB play stinks in 4 years - we can say that PJ failed at developing QB.
If it's still bad in 5-6 years - - he won't have a job.
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Agree but I would shorten it to say that if QB play still stinks at the end of this year and into the beginning of 2019, Fleck deserves criticism.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Interesting he's not much higher than Kramer. It will be interesting to see how he does at those camps as that could elevate his rankings for sure and we might have a situation another poster alluded to in that he may end up being a very good get.
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Little in the way of rushing stats, seems tall. Do we have a philosophy at QB? Dual or pure passer? If the Bachmeier train has rolled on then for 2019 I’d possibly roll with Kramer who looks like a nice dual threat athlete with a nice delivery and solid arm. The only thing he seems to give up to Jacobs in terms of quarterbacking ability is three inches.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Little in the way of rushing stats, seems tall. Do we have a philosophy at QB? Dual or pure passer? If the Bachmeier train has rolled on then for 2019 I’d possibly roll with Kramer who looks like a nice dual threat athlete with a nice delivery and solid arm. The only thing he seems to give up to Jacobs in terms of quarterbacking ability is three inches.
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It is not the size (ht), it is what you can do. We've got between now and the 1st NSD in December to see how the QB recruiting is turning. IMHO, Kramer is a good get.
 

hungan1 said:
It is not the size (ht), it is what you can do. We've got between now and the 1st NSD in December to see how the QB recruiting is turning. IMHO, Kramer is a good get.
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That’s what I’m saying, Kramer looks really good. I’d be comfortable as him as the 2019 QB. The JC offer seems like a slightly weird one as he isn’t a dual threat and doesn’t seem to have the upper echelon zip on his arm of a Max Duggan, or others. If Kramer is a quick learner/smart he could develop into the proverbial diamond in the rough. I’m not worried about height.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
That’s what I’m saying, Kramer looks really good. I’d be comfortable as him as the 2019 QB. The JC offer seems like a slightly weird one as he isn’t a dual threat and doesn’t seem to have the upper echelon zip on his arm of a Max Duggan, or others. If Kramer is a quick learner/smart he could develop into the proverbial diamond in the rough. I’m not worried about height.
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Ryan Burns in his podcast doesn't think the Gophers needed a second QB in the 2019 class. But, Ciarrocca does.

Burns in very high on Kramer, appears to either have followed him well. He was under the radar because he played for a running team in Eden Prairie HS. We shall soon hear how he does in the Chicago UA Camp and the Elite 11 Camp in Columbus.
 

hungan1 said:
Ryan Burns in his podcast doesn't think the Gophers needed a second QB in the 2019 class. But, Ciarrocca does.

Burns in very high on Kramer, appears to either have followed him well. He was under the radar because he played for a running team in Eden Prairie HS. We shall soon hear how he does in the Chicago UA Camp and the Elite 11 Camp in Columbus.
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Not that we can wait.... but I don't think we'll know much until this season is over.

So much mystery...
 

Spoofin said:
Couldn't the first part be said about every single kid at every single camp? Isn't the opposite also true?

Why would his ranking make him any better of a get? Same kid.
Spoofin said:
Couldn't the first part be said about every single kid at every single camp? Isn't the opposite also true?

Why would his ranking make him any better of a get? Same kid.

Yep that certainly is true Spoof. I was thinking more along the lines of these camps have them going against "the best" of prospects rather than just a bunch of kids and a few prospects here or there on a high school team. I personally think he's good enough to be our QB for the class but I know a lot of folks here are pretty bummed we missed out on Duggan but we don't really know how good Kramer is. I look at offers so I definitely think Duggan is the better prospect but I think the local kid could be sneaky good. That's why I think he could be a good get, not because of his camp performance.
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NotAFanOfBecky said:
Yep that certainly is true Spoof. I was thinking more along the lines of these camps have them going against "the best" of prospects rather than just a bunch of kids and a few prospects here or there on a high school team. I personally think he's good enough to be our QB for the class but I know a lot of folks here are pretty bummed we missed out on Duggan but we don't really know how good Kramer is. I look at offers so I definitely think Duggan is the better prospect but<b> I think the local kid could be sneaky good. That's why I think he could be a good get, not because of his camp performance.</b>
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Cool. I just don't get wrapped up in rankings (at all). If the coaches want a kid and the kid wants to come here - that is good enough for me. I like your take on the bolded part - but what do I know?


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The one thing the Eden Prairie kids seem to have in common (Cashman, Coughlin, etc) is that they are 'gamers.' Say what you will about Mike Grant, but his players are fundamentally sound, and seem to all have good football instincts.

Grant himself admits that QB's in his system don't look impressive, because they run about 90% of the time. EP kind of has the old Lombardi approach - they run a simple offense, but they practice it until they can run it in their sleep and they don't make mistakes. Grant doesn't care about style points - he just wins.

And - it's funny, but I think a lot of MN fans get excited about the recruit from TX or FL or somewhere else, but the home-town kid isn't exciting. It's like dating a girl from another school, as opposed to the girl next door.
 

jonnyganas said:
Mertz wanted to be the only 2019 QB. Once Kramer committed to MN, Mertz moved on. Burns' podcast alluded to the fact that while Mertz is verbally committed to WI, he may not end up signing there. The good news is that 2019 recruiting season is not over.
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Mertz committed to Wisconsin 2.5 months before Kramer committed to Minnesota.
 

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