Sinclair(Bally's Sport) nearing a deal for NBA streaming rights for direct to consumer offering

Gophers_4life

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I guess goes to the idea of how profitable is it to even have a streaming service that doesn't have commercials? Is it possible to do? Will people actually pay the monthly price that it really would take to do that?
 

mnsportsgeek

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I guess goes to the idea of how profitable is it to even have a streaming service that doesn't have commercials? Is it possible to do? Will people actually pay the monthly price that it really would take to do that?
Outside of the streaming giants, I would guess most are struggling to be profitable. There’s a reason YTTV raises their prices every 6 months. They might finally be making money at $65/month but the margins are probably slim.
 

short ornery norwegian

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FWIW - Disney+ is joining other streaming services in adjusting its rates. they are rolling out a new lower rate that will include Ads, while the no-ads version is moving to a higher rate. that way, they get revenue from ads, and theoretically add more subscribers who are willing to watch ads if it means they save a few bucks a month.

same thing with the Hulu streaming service (not Hulu Live) - which already has two prices based on whether you want ads or not.

the Disney+ bundle, which includes Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu, is still a pretty good deal in my book.
 

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Just some interesting overall stuff, didn't think this deserved its own thread. This is from The Athletic on the Disney (ESPN) dispute with Dish (satellite and Sling TV).


Dish Network and its streaming service, Sling TV, pulled all Walt Disney channels early this morning, which include the ESPN array of outlets, the latest carriage dispute to affect sports fans.

Dish and Sling have more than 10 million combined subscribers who will not have access now to college football games and “Monday Night Football” on ESPN, among other programming, at the very least over the next few days. What makes this particular dustup between a content provider and distributor noteworthy is it may be the first time the trend of moving material off of cable and onto a streaming service, like ESPN + and Disney +, has been cited as one of the reasons.

“A recent quote from their CEO (Bob Chapek) sums it all up,” Brian Neylon, Group President of Dish, said in a recorded message on the satellite service’s website. “Their linear networks such as ESPN, ABC and Freeform are ‘huge cash generators for Disney’ — but Disney+, their streaming service, is not. Look, we know many people subscribe to and enjoy Disney+. We just don’t think it’s fair that Disney is asking us and you to pay significantly higher rates in order to help subsidize their unprofitable streaming service.”

Disney reported over $1 billion in losses from streaming services ESPN+, Disney+ and Hulu in its most recent quarter.

On its website, Dish maintained that Disney’s proposals would add nearly $1 billion extra in costs, and force customers who buy packages on Dish without sports to buy into sports.

“We don’t think this is fair and that is why we are fighting hard for a fair rate to ensure you get the best possible value from Dish,” the website statement said.

Disney Media and Entertainment said in a statement, “After months of negotiating in good faith, Dish has declined to reach a fair, market-based agreement with us for continued distribution of our networks…The rates and terms we are seeking reflect the marketplace and have been the foundation for numerous successful deals with pay TV providers of all types and sizes across the country.”
Dish Network can whine and cry, but they now don't have the Twins, Wild, Wolves or any ESPN networks. They also frequently don't have one or more of the broadcast networks because they get into a pissing match with them every year or two. Anyone with any interest in sports would a fool to subscribe to them.
 

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Dish Network can whine and cry, but they now don't have the Twins, Wild, Wolves or any ESPN networks. They also frequently don't have one or more of the broadcast networks because they get into a pissing match with them every year or two. Anyone with any interest in sports would a fool to subscribe to them.

Sorry to say this because you were on a roll, but Disney and Dish settled last night.

 


Iceland12

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It's not the cable companies, Dish, DirecTV etc. It's the content providers. It's always the content providers. Now that AT&T sold their share of DirectV, they won't be able to skate through either.

"Disney and the Dish Network have reached a “handshake agreement” for a new distributions deal, ending a two-day blackout of Disney-owned networks on both Dish and Sling TV platforms (obvious channels like ESPN and Disney Channel were affected, but so were eight local ABC affiliates in various cities, all of which are now available again). This comes from Variety, which says that terms of the deal were not disclosed, but that Disney initially wanted to jack up licensing fees by $1 billion, to force Dish to offer ESPN and ESPN2 on channel packages that don’t include sports, and to force Dish to give subscribers in those aforementioned various cities their local ABC channels—basically, Disney wanted to get more money, to put more of its channels in front of Dish subscribers, and for the Disney company to bleed just a tiny bit. .

We won’t say it owns too many, because we wouldn’t dream of editorializing in a news story at The A.V. Club (not counting the one or two times we’ve done it in the past), but here’s the list of channels that were blacked out on Dish and Sling: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews (ESPN ooze?), ESPN Deportes, Disney Channel, Disney Jr, Disney XD, Freeform, FX, FXX, FXM, National Geographic, Nat Geo Wild, Nat Geo Mundo, ACC Network, SEC Network, Longhorn Network, Baby TV, and the ABC affiliates in Chicago, Fresno, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Raleigh, and San Francisco.

Losing the ESPN family of networks is bad, losing the FX family of networks is also bad, but losing all of them because one mouse controls a massive chunk of the entertainment industry like those marching brooms he once brought to life is… something, certainly. A hypothetical person might even hypothetically argue that it’s bad! We just think it’s whatever. Who cares.
"

 
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Maybe if this country updated and enforced anti-trust laws companies wouldn't be able to dominate so many of our markets.

More industry players provides higher wages for workers, more choice for consumers, lower prices for consumers, and less shock to the system when a business fails or services/goods aren't provided for whatever reason.
 

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It's not the cable companies, Dish, DirecTV etc. It's the content providers. It's always the content providers. Now that AT&T sold their share of DirectV, they won't be able to skate through either.

"Disney and the Dish Network have reached a “handshake agreement” for a new distributions deal, ending a two-day blackout of Disney-owned networks on both Dish and Sling TV platforms (obvious channels like ESPN and Disney Channel were affected, but so were eight local ABC affiliates in various cities, all of which are now available again). This comes from Variety, which says that terms of the deal were not disclosed, but that Disney initially wanted to jack up licensing fees by $1 billion, to force Dish to offer ESPN and ESPN2 on channel packages that don’t include sports, and to force Dish to give subscribers in those aforementioned various cities their local ABC channels—basically, Disney wanted to get more money, to put more of its channels in front of Dish subscribers, and for the Disney company to bleed just a tiny bit. .

We won’t say it owns too many, because we wouldn’t dream of editorializing in a news story at The A.V. Club (not counting the one or two times we’ve done it in the past), but here’s the list of channels that were blacked out on Dish and Sling: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews (ESPN ooze?), ESPN Deportes, Disney Channel, Disney Jr, Disney XD, Freeform, FX, FXX, FXM, National Geographic, Nat Geo Wild, Nat Geo Mundo, ACC Network, SEC Network, Longhorn Network, Baby TV, and the ABC affiliates in Chicago, Fresno, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Raleigh, and San Francisco.

Losing the ESPN family of networks is bad, losing the FX family of networks is also bad, but losing all of them because one mouse controls a massive chunk of the entertainment industry like those marching brooms he once brought to life is… something, certainly. A hypothetical person might even hypothetically argue that it’s bad! We just think it’s whatever. Who cares.
"

I mean yeah ... if you've lost all that, what is the point of paying $65/month for a channel package?

It's the consumer who pays the jacked up costs, not Dish. But at the end of the day, if enough people say "F it, I'll just get Netflix, Hulu, and HBO Max and call it a day on watching TV ..." that kills Live TV altogether and kills ESPN (et al) getting out to people.
 

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Literally the only thing keeping Live TV "alive" is sports. So long as they won't let you get the main/most popular sports content without having to subscribe to a channel package, that keeps the golden goose aloft.
 



forever a gopher

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Literally the only thing keeping Live TV "alive" is sports. So long as they won't let you get the main/most popular sports content without having to subscribe to a channel package, that keeps the golden goose aloft.
Like many, I'm sure, this is the only reason I have live TV. I get Hulu Live for the college football and basketball/hockey seasons. Then I cancel it. I've done the math, and it's about the same price as Comcast (when factoring I get a bundling discount by being forced to have Comcast internet as the only viable option in my area). However, that's with a yearly contract. But I don't want live TV year round, as I watch very little (if any) live TV in the spring and summer. So the streaming thing is great for me, as I don't want it 12 months a year. But if I couldn't get sports, I wouldn't have a need for any live TV. If they had a streaming option that literally had only sports and was at a lower cost, I'd be all over it. I'm sorry, but if you're spending your time watching "The Housewives of Atlanta" or "My 600 Pound Life" live, you need more hobbies.
 

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Like many, I'm sure, this is the only reason I have live TV. I get Hulu Live for the college football and basketball/hockey seasons. Then I cancel it. I've done the math, and it's about the same price as Comcast (when factoring I get a bundling discount by being forced to have Comcast internet as the only viable option in my area). However, that's with a yearly contract. But I don't want live TV year round, as I watch very little (if any) live TV in the spring and summer. So the streaming thing is great for me, as I don't want it 12 months a year. But if I couldn't get sports, I wouldn't have a need for any live TV. If they had a streaming option that literally had only sports and was at a lower cost, I'd be all over it. I'm sorry, but if you're spending your time watching "The Housewives of Atlanta" or "My 600 Pound Life" live, you need more hobbies.
Right. Why would you want to watch those on Live TV anyway?? You can watch that stuff without commercials, whole seasons at a time, on services like Hulu and Netflix.
 

Iceland12

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I mean yeah ... if you've lost all that, what is the point of paying $65/month for a channel package?

It's the consumer who pays the jacked up costs, not Dish. But at the end of the day, if enough people say "F it, I'll just get Netflix, Hulu, and HBO Max and call it a day on watching TV ..." that kills Live TV altogether and kills ESPN (et al) getting out to people.

True. Though as for the bolded part? Dish, has tried to keep price increases down by saying no to the content providers, but all you need to do is look at the questions and responses on the board to see that it's done them zero good.

There has been zero complaints about Disney wanted that $1+billion increase and special channels for ESPN(more money). The only complaints have been either "Why won't Dish give me my channels" or "Why is Dish involved in all of these!"

Never "How can Disney ask for all that money!"

Though it is a sports board. The subscribers who don't give a damn about sport are out there and have been praising Dish for trying to hold the line on prices. Many of them want sports dumped altogether.

Give cable and satellite companies the ala carte ability they've been screaming for for years now and let's see what happens then.
 

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Cable and sat have never been legally restricted from doing ala carte, as far as I'm aware.

"Skinny bundles" were the jam a few years ago.



Content providers won't let them do it. It's like 4 or 5 major media companies that own most of the channels, and to have the few good ones they force you to take them all.
 



Iceland12

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Cable and sat have never been legally restricted from doing ala carte, as far as I'm aware.

"Skinny bundles" were the jam a few years ago.

Content providers won't let them do it. It's like 4 or 5 major media companies that own most of the channels, and to have the few good ones they force you to take them all.

You're absolutely right about the content providers. They're all about bundling.

Though Dish and even DirecTV have been asking for an ala carte system for years. Congress even introduced a bill to force it in '15 or '18. It failed. Not sure about the status now.
 

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"I wanted access to the Wolves and Wild. Those leagues are in-season, so focusing on them makes sense. But there's still the looming question: Will baseball fans enjoy similar coverage? When the app launched, only five MLB markets were included — and ours isn't one of them.

The season is months away, so there's time for a resolution. But April will be here before we know it, so I asked Twins President Dave St. Peter recently where we stand. (You can hear our full conversation covering multiple topics on Tuesday's Daily Delivery podcast).

"There isn't an issue that we're dealing with that's more important than that issue," St. Peter said. "It's complicated — more complicated than it probably needs to be. ... Here in Minnesota we're in an active conversation with Diamond Sports, which the parent company of Bally Sports North, we're in an active conversation with Major League Baseball, and it's certainly my hope that we're going to have as widespread accessibility to our games starting in 2023 as is possible. But it remains to be seen what form that's going to take."


 


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Not sure where this belongs but FuboTV is adding Bally. Your move, Google.

Anyone use Fubo? I did the free trial once to be able to watch a game that wasn't on YouTube TV but can't remember what it was.

I started a new thread but YTTV is in negotiations for Sunday Ticket.
 

mnsportsgeek

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Anyone use Fubo? I did the free trial once to be able to watch a game that wasn't on YouTube TV but can't remember what it was.
I've only used a free trial. I prefer YouTube TV's interface. Though I don't use any of them at the moment. Fubo is missing warner networks which is a deal breaker for me after their deal with USSF.

I'm optimistic that this means a Bally deal with Google is in the works.

Waiting to see where Sunday Ticket ends up before I sign any new cable contracts or switch to a streamer. Sounds like it's headed to Google.
 

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Not sure where this belongs but FuboTV is adding Bally. Your move, Google.

They have to now. Looks like I'll finally be able to watch it.

EDIT: oops, I was thinking Hulu. Lol, we'll see. Fubo does offer a lot of sports channels, it is kinda their thing.
 

mnsportsgeek

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They have to now. Looks like I'll finally be able to watch it.

EDIT: oops, I was thinking Hulu. Lol, we'll see. Fubo does offer a lot of sports channels, it is kinda their thing.
Fubo would have everything I'd want in a TV service if they had TBS/TNT/TruTV. I would love the obscure soccer channels like BeIN.

YouTube TV has every mainstream channel I'd want except for Bally, but I might forgo that if Google gets Sunday Ticket and offers a discount to YTTV subscribers. I live out of the Minneapolis market so the only time I need Bally is when the Twins/Wild/Wolves are playing against Detroit which is pretty rare. I am getting really sick of only being able to watch 5 or 6 Vikings games a year though so I'm really ready for Sunday Ticket to be available to non DirecTV subscribers.

If Fubo gets WarnerMedia or YTTV gets Bally then I'd drop Xfinity for sure. My contract expires next month.
 

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Fubo would have everything I'd want in a TV service if they had TBS/TNT/TruTV. I would love the obscure soccer channels like BeIN.

YouTube TV has every mainstream channel I'd want except for Bally, but I might forgo that if Google gets Sunday Ticket and offers a discount to YTTV subscribers. I live out of the Minneapolis market so the only time I need Bally is when the Twins/Wild/Wolves are playing against Detroit which is pretty rare. I am getting really sick of only being able to watch 5 or 6 Vikings games a year though so I'm really ready for Sunday Ticket to be available to non DirecTV subscribers.

If Fubo gets WarnerMedia or YTTV gets Bally then I'd drop Xfinity for sure. My contract expires next month.
How do you watch Twins/Wild/Wolves when they aren't playing Detroit? I assume you live in Detroit.
 

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How do you watch Twins/Wild/Wolves when they aren't playing Detroit? I assume you live in Detroit.
Historically I have gotten MLB.TV for free through t-mobile. We'll see how long that continues.

I bought league pass this year because I jumped on the bandwagon. Typically I don't and just watch a couple national tv games a year + playoffs.

The out of market NHL package is included in ESPN+ which I have for other reasons, so NHL is a bonus.

So it actually works out pretty well and usually I only miss out on the wolves, but I bought into the hype and paid up this year.
 

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Bump - saw this on cordcuttersnews.com --

dated Jan 25, 2023

Today it is being reported that Sinclair’s Sports Channels are preparing for bankruptcy. This would include the Bally Sports RSNs.

The company called Diamond Sports Group LLC, which runs Sinclairs sports channels, is reportedly $8.6 billion in debt. Sinclair is hoping to strike a deal to help them keep the channels operating thanks to bankruptcy.

In total, Sinclair owes $55 billion in sports-media rights, according to Bloomberg. A bankruptcy could put payments to the NBA and NHL at risk. It is being reported that Sinclair will skip a $140 million interest payment due in mid-February, starting a 30-day grace period for the company.

Sinclair is facing the perfect storm of paying a very high price for the old Fox Sports RSNs just as cord cutting was exploding. Now payouts from cable networks are reportedly drying up as companies are refusing to pay the high price Sinclair wants for its Bally Sports RSNs.

Recently a growing number of networks, including DISH have dropped Bally Sports Network. To help with these issues, Sinclair has launched a $20 a month subscription service to get Bally Sports networks without cable TV. So far, though, fans seem not to be running to the service in the numbers expected.

Sinclair will likely seek to end some contracts with teams and cut back on payments to others.

It is reported that Sinclairs Diamond sports group has about $585 million cash in hand but owes about $2 billion in fees to teams this year.
 

howeda7

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Bump - saw this on cordcuttersnews.com --

dated Jan 25, 2023

Today it is being reported that Sinclair’s Sports Channels are preparing for bankruptcy. This would include the Bally Sports RSNs.

The company called Diamond Sports Group LLC, which runs Sinclairs sports channels, is reportedly $8.6 billion in debt. Sinclair is hoping to strike a deal to help them keep the channels operating thanks to bankruptcy.

In total, Sinclair owes $55 billion in sports-media rights, according to Bloomberg. A bankruptcy could put payments to the NBA and NHL at risk. It is being reported that Sinclair will skip a $140 million interest payment due in mid-February, starting a 30-day grace period for the company.

Sinclair is facing the perfect storm of paying a very high price for the old Fox Sports RSNs just as cord cutting was exploding. Now payouts from cable networks are reportedly drying up as companies are refusing to pay the high price Sinclair wants for its Bally Sports RSNs.

Recently a growing number of networks, including DISH have dropped Bally Sports Network. To help with these issues, Sinclair has launched a $20 a month subscription service to get Bally Sports networks without cable TV. So far, though, fans seem not to be running to the service in the numbers expected.

Sinclair will likely seek to end some contracts with teams and cut back on payments to others.

It is reported that Sinclairs Diamond sports group has about $585 million cash in hand but owes about $2 billion in fees to teams this year.
Good. Well deserved.
 



howeda7

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Too bad we can't bring back Midwest Sports Channel. That was one of my favorite channel back in the days.
I think that would be the hope. Essentially the Twins would re-try Victory Sports One and partner with the Wolves/Wild. But I suspect they might go straight to a streaming app.
 

short ornery norwegian

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all depends on how this bankruptcy works out.

one possible option would be for the individual leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL) to take their media packages in-house. not sure if that would entail a cable option, streaming, or a combination.

but if Diamond misses any rights payments, stuff is going to get serious in a hurry.
 

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MLS was letting individual teams negotiate for TV rights (e.g., the Loons were tied in with Bally), but put a firm date when all those contracts had to end, which was at the end of the last season. As such, going into this season MLS could offer a complete league-wide deal to the highest bidder, which ended up being Apple+. Other leagues, such as the NBA, have multiple contracts in place, so that'd be harder for them to do.

Apple sees MLS fans as being more "high-tech" than other fan bases, so they see a solid overlap between them selling hardware and such and the fan base; and MLS sees this as a major brand now promoting their league in a very new way to lots of otherwise non-sports fans, so they think it will expand their fan base (in contrast to say ESPN which markets to basically only sports fans). As part of the deal, every season ticket holder gets a free subscription to Apple+.
 

short ornery norwegian

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one thing to add - according to what I read today in the Strib, the Twins' contract with Bally's is done after the 2023 season.

so, this puts the Twins in a very interesting situation of having to negotiate a new contract for local TV rights when the current provider may be going bankrupt.

as best as I can find on the webs, the Twins' current deal with Bally's (this is local rights only) pays them about $43-Million a year. there are only 3 teams that earn less from their local TV rights.
at least 15 MLB teams earn $60-million or more from local TV. Six teams earn $100-Million or more, led by the Dodgers with an estimated $239-Million in local TV revenue.

just to add - with the new National TV deals, each MLB team will bring in roughly $60-Million a year from National TV.
 




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