Sid thinks Fisch is gone

Donate To GopherHole
DMB123 said:
I disagree completely. I think it's the total opposite. Lou Holtz once said the spread offense is the ultimate equalizer in college football because almost anyone can run it. You don't need a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits to run the spread, not even close. And please tell me why you can't run the spread in cold weather?
Click to expand...

If the spread was such a great equalizer, wouldn't everyone be running the spread, and wouldn't there be a lot more parity in college football?
 

RodentRampage said:
If the spread was such a great equalizer, wouldn't everyone be running the spread, and wouldn't there be a lot more parity in college football?
Click to expand...
Are you kidding? It's almost impossible to find teams who DON'T run the spread now. And there used to be no parity in college football at all, now there is a lot of parity, mainly due to scholarships but also due to the spread having such an impact.
 

DMB123 said:
Are you kidding? It's almost impossible to find teams who DON'T run the spread now. And there used to be no parity in college football at all, now there is a lot of parity, mainly due to scholarships but also due to the spread having such an impact.
Click to expand...

I'll give you this, the spread CAN work some places, it could not work here under Dunbar. Alot of top teams have run a pro style offense. It gives them balance and toughness to control games and grind out wins and depend on their defenses. OSU, Alabama, USC, Iowa all run pro offenses.
It will get better here when we are able to field quality players on the Oline. We ground Purdue and Northwestern early primarily because we could run a little bit on them and set up play action passes to Decker and NTA.
Recipes for success vary, this is ours for now, roll with it and hope Fisch stays and improves. With maturing receivers, competition at QB and RB, and hopefully better blocking, we'll score more points.
 

DMB123 said:
Dunbar is a highly respected OC and had a lot of success at Cal and especially at Northwestern.
Click to expand...

Dunbar had success at Cal because they had a load of offensive talent and the playbook was basically Tedford's with a smattering of Dunbar. It was no secret that Tedford wasn't unhappy when we hired Dunbar away from Cal.
 

DMB123 said:
I disagree completely. I think it's the total opposite. Lou Holtz once said the spread offense is the ultimate equalizer in college football because almost anyone can run it. You don't need a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits to run the spread, not even close. And please tell me why you can't run the spread in cold weather?
Click to expand...

It's not that you 'can't' run the spread in cold weather. But it's harder. It's largely a passing offense based on speed and timing. On cold, wet, snowy fields those things become more difficult. In that type of weather, it's more effective to grind it out on the ground with the passing game mixed in. It's imperative in those situations to run the football effectively in short yardage. It's not easy to run the football out of the spread unless you have a quarterback like Tim Tebow who can go and simply run people over. We don't have that. We likely never would. How many times in 2007/2008 did were we unable to convert 3rd/4th down and short situations? Many. Lining up in the shotgun on 4th and half a yard is simply not a good idea. We still struggled in these situation this year, but it's because a lack of talent and/or a poor fit since we recruited lineman and running back geared towards the spread offense we are no longer running.

Perhaps the biggest lesson is that you have to adapt your offense to the talent you have, not bull-headedly run the offense you want, talent be damned. Brewster did the latter to his detriment in 2007 and now again in 2009 to some degree. In 2006 when Tim Tebow was just a freshman and Chris Leak was his QB, Urban Meyer ran a very different offense then what he ran with Tebow. Leak obviously could not be asked to go out and run people over. He still won the National Championship. Meyer adapted his offense to the talent he had. I'm sure he will do the same again next year with John Brantley. We have yet to see Brew or his 'coordinator of the year' do the same.

In fairness I did think that the hybrid appraoch that Fisch was trying to bring could work. But clearly he did not find the right mix to adapt to the talent he had. Maybe he could do it in 2010. It now appears he's out the door instead. Unless you think he was completely incompetant (I don't) this is not a good thing. Having a 4th offense to learn in 5 years is really, really not fair to Adam Webber and likely means more Offensive struggles next year, unless the new coordinator can take the existing offense, pare it down to the parts that work for the talent we have, and go forward from there.
 


howeda7 said:
It's not that you 'can't' run the spread in cold weather. But it's harder. It's largely a passing offense based on speed and timing. On cold, wet, snowy fields those things become more difficult. In that type of weather, it's more effective to grind it out on the ground with the passing game mixed in. It's imperative in those situations to run the football effectively in short yardage. It's not easy to run the football out of the spread unless you have a quarterback like Tim Tebow who can go and simply run people over. We don't have that. We likely never would. How many times in 2007/2008 did were we unable to convert 3rd/4th down and short situations? Many. Lining up in the shotgun on 4th and half a yard is simply not a good idea. We still struggled in these situation this year, but it's because a lack of talent and/or a poor fit since we recruited lineman and running back geared towards the spread offense we are no longer running.

Perhaps the biggest lesson is that you have to adapt your offense to the talent you have, not bull-headedly run the offense you want, talent be damned. Brewster did the latter to his detriment in 2007 and now again in 2009 to some degree. In 2006 when Tim Tebow was just a freshman and Chris Leak was his QB, Urban Meyer ran a very different offense then what he ran with Tebow. Leak obviously could not be asked to go out and run people over. He still won the National Championship. Meyer adapted his offense to the talent he had. I'm sure he will do the same again next year with John Brantley. We have yet to see Brew or his 'coordinator of the year' do the same.

In fairness I did think that the hybrid appraoch that Fisch was trying to bring could work. But clearly he did not find the right mix to adapt to the talent he had. Maybe he could do it in 2010. It now appears he's out the door instead. Unless you think he was completely incompetant (I don't) this is not a good thing. Having a 4th offense to learn in 5 years is really, really not fair to Adam Webber and likely means more Offensive struggles next year, unless the new coordinator can take the existing offense, pare it down to the parts that work for the talent we have, and go forward from there.
Click to expand...


I literally fell on the floor from laughter after reading this post. Honestly, this was one of the best posts I have ever read.

We can't run the spread because of the cold weather is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You realize that we didn't have a home game in December or January. In fact our last game of the year (@ IA) was on November 21st. The temp in Minneapolis was 49 degrees that day. According to the Weather Almanac the average temperature for that day is 37 degrees. Do limbs stop working at those temps?

I understand that you support Brew and you think he did the right thing in firing Dunbar and hiring Fisch, but seriously, use real metrics to measure an offense.
 

gopher_alum_2005 said:
I literally fell on the floor from laughter after reading this post. Honestly, this was one of the best posts I have ever read.

We can't run the spread because of the cold weather is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You realize that we didn't have a home game in December or January. In fact our last game of the year (@ IA) was on November 21st. The temp in Minneapolis was 49 degrees that day. According to the Weather Almanac the average temperature for that day is 37 degrees. Do limbs stop working at those temps?

I understand that you support Brew and you think he did the right thing in firing Dunbar and hiring Fisch, but seriously, use real metrics to measure an offense.
Click to expand...

Support Brewster? Have you read howeda's posts? To use your own quote, I literally fell on the floor from laughter after reading this post. Honestly, this was one of the best posts I have ever read.
 


Iceland12 said:
Support Brewster? Have you read howeda's posts? To use your own quote, I literally fell on the floor from laughter after reading this post. Honestly, this was one of the best posts I have ever read.
Click to expand...

+1

I'm generally appreciative of howeda's take (though I often disagree), but an ardent supporter of Brewster he is not.
 




DMB123 said:
Are you kidding me? You actually believe that means anything? Of course Shanahan is going to say that, Fisch was one of his assistants and he was simply trying to make him look good so he could land another job. I'm sure glad I judge my opinions based on what I see with my own eyes rather than listening to what others have to say.

That is why he wants to rehire him now? to make him look good?

And when did Pete Carroll ever say Jedd Fisch is brilliant? Please show me that quote, I want to see it.

He wants to hire him as OC for the Seahawks. Pete Carroll wants to hire Jedd Fisch because he thinks Jedd Fisch is no good?

Jedd Fisch was an unmitigated disaster this year... but oh wait, Mike Shanahan says he's brilliant so we must keep him forever! Get a clue people, and a mind of your own.
Click to expand...

I will believe NFL minds who think he is a very good coach and an up and comer.
 


gopher_alum_2005 said:
I literally fell on the floor from laughter after reading this post. Honestly, this was one of the best posts I have ever read.

We can't run the spread because of the cold weather is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You realize that we didn't have a home game in December or January. In fact our last game of the year (@ IA) was on November 21st. The temp in Minneapolis was 49 degrees that day. According to the Weather Almanac the average temperature for that day is 37 degrees. Do limbs stop working at those temps?

I understand that you support Brew and you think he did the right thing in firing Dunbar and hiring Fisch, but seriously, use real metrics to measure an offense.
Click to expand...

I never said you 'can't' run it in cold weather, I said it was more difficult. Don't quote average temperatures, that means little. The Wisconsin game in October was a cold weather game. So was Purdue. The game @ PSU was played the day after a major snow storm. All of these were in October. November was actually much better. Either way, in an average year, you'll have to play 2-3 games in cold and/or snowy weather in the Big 10. In the SEC you'll rarely have to do that. Either way it's an opinion, you're free to disagree.
 



gopher_alum_2005 said:
Sorry guys - had no idea he wasn't a Brewster Supporter.
Click to expand...

I've been called things far worse then a Brewster supporter. It's true, I'm not his biggest fan. But he's the coach next year, and I wish him well until we're far enough into next season to re-assess. If anyone ever accuses me of being an anti-Brewster troll, I'll refer then to your accusation that I'm a Brew-lover.:cool02:
 

howeda7 said:
In fairness I did think that the hybrid appraoch that Fisch was trying to bring could work. But clearly he did not find the right mix to adapt to the talent he had. Maybe he could do it in 2010. It now appears he's out the door instead. Unless you think he was completely incompetant (I don't) this is not a good thing. Having a 4th offense to learn in 5 years is really, really not fair to Adam Webber and likely means more Offensive struggles next year, unless the new coordinator can take the existing offense, pare it down to the parts that work for the talent we have, and go forward from there.
Click to expand...

Leaving the other spread stuff aside, I say "+1" to this.
 

bankonit said:
I will believe NFL minds who think he is a very good coach and an up and comer.
Click to expand...

If Shanahan thought Fisch was so great then he would consider him for the OC position, which he is not. Still waiting for the "Jedd Fisch is brilliant" quote from Pete Carroll by the way.
 

DMB123 said:
If Shanahan thought Fisch was so great then he would consider him for the OC position, which he is not. Still waiting for the "Jedd Fisch is brilliant" quote from Pete Carroll by the way.
Click to expand...

Dude, they can think he is an up and comer without thinking he is ready to hire as an OC. In fact, the consensus coming from the NFL sources of these stories is that they think he'll be a good NFL OC someday, a good QB coach now. I'm not saying that just b/c its the NFL these guys are right. Fisch hasn't proven himself yet at the college level, that's for sure. But this is beyond random rumors at this point...several NFL organizations are showing interest in him and they are saying the same general things. Ignore that pattern if you want, but don't be surprised when folks stop taking you seriously.

As I've noted in other posts, nothing about these potential NFL offers means that he'll work out as our OC or that he is a good fit for college FB. Most long time college coaches make poor NFL coaches and the reverse has also shown itself to be true. The games are different enough where not everyone can make the transition. But ignoring this many sources at the next level speaking positively about Fisch is just silly. Obviously this guy has qualities that The League likes...we'll see if he can make it happen for us next year (assuming he stays).

Also, all of this is separate from the Carroll quote fight you're having. I'm not getting in the middle of that.
 

GoAUpher said:
Dude, they can think he is an up and comer without thinking he is ready to hire as an OC. In fact, the consensus coming from the NFL sources of these stories is that they think he'll be a good NFL OC someday, a good QB coach now. I'm not saying that just b/c its the NFL these guys are right. Fisch hasn't proven himself yet at the college level, that's for sure. But this is beyond random rumors at this point...several NFL organizations are showing interest in him and they are saying the same general things. Ignore that pattern if you want, but don't be surprised when folks stop taking you seriously.

As I've noted in other posts, nothing about these potential NFL offers means that he'll work out as our OC or that he is a good fit for college FB. Most long time college coaches make poor NFL coaches and the reverse has also shown itself to be true. The games are different enough where not everyone can make the transition. But ignoring this many sources at the next level speaking positively about Fisch is just silly. Obviously this guy has qualities that The League likes...we'll see if he can make it happen for us next year (assuming he stays).

Also, all of this is separate from the Carroll quote fight you're having. I'm not getting in the middle of that.
Click to expand...

I would be more impressed if guys like Urban Meyer, Mack Brown, Bob Stoops, or Kirk Ferentz were all after Fisch. This is college football, not the NFL. Why aren't there any college coaches out there looking to hire this guy. Don't you think there are some OC positions available at some BCS schools? Fisch is obviously an NFL guy, which does us no good considering we play in the Big Ten, last I checked that was a part of college football and not the NFL. Get him out of here, the sooner the better. He ruined Adam Weber and will do the same to Gray.
 

DMB123 said:
He ruined Adam Weber and will do the same to Gray.
Click to expand...

I wish he would have helped Adam with his footwork. Maybe he did, but if so, it wasn't nearly enough. I think if Adam had better footwork in the pocket, many of those inaccurate throws become completions.
 

DMB123 said:
I would be more impressed if guys like Urban Meyer, Mack Brown, Bob Stoops, or Kirk Ferentz were all after Fisch. This is college football, not the NFL. Why aren't there any college coaches out there looking to hire this guy. Don't you think there are some OC positions available at some BCS schools? Fisch is obviously an NFL guy, which does us no good considering we play in the Big Ten, last I checked that was a part of college football and not the NFL. Get him out of here, the sooner the better. He ruined Adam Weber and will do the same to Gray.
Click to expand...

What you say here is a fair concern/criticism. As I note above, there is a good chance that he is indeed an NFL guy. But I disagree that the benefits of getting rid of him now outweight the risks for a couple of reasons:
  1. What decent OC is going to want to step into the role? Brew is on the hot seat and he'd be installing a new offense. If he doesn't succeed immediately he'll get canned with Brew.
  2. The U would be on the hook for even more money. This is especially true given the fact that a new OC would need at least a 2 year deal and if Brew gets fired then you owe the remainder of that contract as well.
  3. This would be the 4th OC for Weber and the 2nd/3rd-ish OC for Gray (since Gray did spend some time learning Dunbar's "O" before being pulled b/c of the ACT mess) and we would be facing another year of "starting over".
IMO its better to let Fisch have year 2. If he succeeds in molding the playbook to be more college level then we'll likely have moderate to good success on offense. If he doesn't, he's gone anyway because there is no way Brew wins enough to keep his job with an offense like this season's. I get your concern about "ruining Gray"...but the big problem with Weber was the change to his throwing motion IMO. If Fisch was going to mess with Gray's motion he would have started doing so already.
 

Good Point

It was a good point that you made what decent OC wants to come here knowing Brewster might get fired after this year. I can think of one..................Mike Hohensee. He wasn't a offensive coordinator but he's a great coach.
 

gold04 said:
It was a good point that you made what decent OC wants to come here knowing Brewster might get fired after this year. I can think of one..................Mike Hohensee. He wasn't a offensive coordinator but he's a great coach.
Click to expand...

GIVE IT UP!!!!!! YOUR MAN CRUSH ON THIS LOSER GETS OLD. EVERY DARN DAY THE SAME THING!
 

howeda7 said:
Having a 4th offense to learn in 5 years is really, really not fair to Adam Webber and likely means more Offensive struggles next year, unless the new coordinator can take the existing offense, pare it down to the parts that work for the talent we have, and go forward from there.
Click to expand...



Isn't that the basic job description for an Offensive Coordinator?
 

WHB Brewer said:
Isn't that the basic job description for an Offensive Coordinator?
Click to expand...

Everything except the first part ("take the existing offense"). Each OC is going to have their own philosophy. Even if its similar, it is unlikely that the new OC would take Fisch's scheme as is and then simply pare it down. They'd bring in new stuff (at least with parts of the scheme) which equates to starting from scratch for the players impacted by those portions of the scheme.
 

gold04 said:
It was a good point that you made what decent OC wants to come here knowing Brewster might get fired after this year. I can think of one..................Mike Hohensee. He wasn't a offensive coordinator but he's a great coach.
Click to expand...


:mad: Can we vote on banning the words Mike and Hohansee in the same sentence on this site......
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom