Sid: If Vikes play at TCF, Gophers to get $250K per game plus parking and concessions

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josh087 said:
We've seen recently that the average fan doesn't care about the Gophers even if they are winning. Case-in-point 10/18/2003 where a one-loss Gopher team in charge of their own destiny in the last half of the Big Ten Schedule drew about 35,000 to arguably their biggest conference home game since 1967.
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You see, the difference is having one good season =/= winning consistently. Win CONSISTENTLY and there will be more people buying tickets. At this point most average fans were probably thinking "Ah it's the Gophers, they'll find some way to fail"
 

Ski U Master said:
If you were at the game the week before that you would see why nobody showed up.
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Yes, I was on the field during the entire game. That was the best I've ever seen a Gopher football team play in my lifetime. Sure, the way they lost sucked, but the team's performance was at an all-time high. They're still 6-1. Then you wonder why the team comes out flat the next game? They look in the stands and see nobody for a still very important game. I'd have some of the energy zapped from me too with that kind of fair-weather support. People just figured, "there goes the rose bowl" and poof, nobody shows up.
 

John Galt said:
If people truly cared and had passion in the state for the Gophers, Brewster would have never got 3.5 years, he would have been out after year 1.
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No he wouldn't have. College coaches don't get fired that fast unless there are misconduct type issues. Buyouts for 1 (especially on the heels of Mason and Monson) and because it gets used against the school in recruiting. At most you could say he would have gotten fired after 3 years instead of getting the chance to start year 4.
 

josh087 said:
Yes, I was on the field during the entire game. That was the best I've ever seen a Gopher football team play in my lifetime. Sure, the way they lost sucked, but the team's performance was at an all-time high. They're still 6-1. Then you wonder why the team comes out flat the next game? They look in the stands and see nobody for a still very important game. I'd have some of the energy zapped from me too with that kind of fair-weather support. People just figured, "there goes the rose bowl" and poof, nobody shows up.
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And this is why the change should be gradual. Get better and better each year, attracting a few more fans that see the improvement, and by the time they are competing for Rose Bowls the fan base is already bigger.
 

GoAUpher said:
No he wouldn't have. College coaches don't get fired that fast unless there are misconduct type issues. Buyouts for 1 (especially on the heels of Mason and Monson) and because it gets used against the school in recruiting. At most you could say he would have gotten fired after 3 years instead of getting the chance to start year 4.
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If Nick Saban leaves Alabama and the next guy goes 1-11, I guarantee you he's gone.
 


josh087 said:
Yes, I was on the field during the entire game. That was the best I've ever seen a Gopher football team play in my lifetime. Sure, the way they lost sucked, but the team's performance was at an all-time high. They're still 6-1. Then you wonder why the team comes out flat the next game? They look in the stands and see nobody for a still very important game. I'd have some of the energy zapped from me too with that kind of fair-weather support. People just figured, "there goes the rose bowl" and poof, nobody shows up.
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The players and coaches could have made sure the stands were packed against MSU if they hadn't crapped the bed against Michigan. It's the repeating story of Gopher football, raise hopes and expectations, really get something going, and then completely waste all the momentum by playing terribly. People will only come back so many times, and in 50+ years there have been too many letdowns for a lot of people.
 

John Galt said:
If Nick Saban leaves Alabama and the next guy goes 1-11, I guarantee you he's gone.
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Fair enough. I should have qualified my statement slightly to exclude power programs with insane fan bases. But we're not on the same level as Bama. Bama can get away with that situation monetarily b/c of their boosters and recruiting wise b/c they've won 2 of the last 3 national titles. Doing so at Minnesota would simply cause financial strain, hurt recruiting, and frankly, likely result in a tougher coaching search. I mean, who would want to follow up Brew knowing that the delusional folks in MN will fire you that quickly?
 

Ski U Master said:
The players and coaches could have made sure the stands were packed against MSU if they hadn't crapped the bed against Michigan. It's the repeating story of Gopher football, raise hopes and expectations, really get something going, and then completely waste all the momentum by playing terribly. People will only come back so many times, and in 50+ years there have been too many letdowns for a lot of people.
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So anything other than an undefeated season is a let down?
 

FreakyDeke said:
So anything other than an undefeated season is a let down?
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That's not what I said. The epic collapses and unbelievable defeats (TTech, Wisconsin punt, Michigan '03, NDSUs, etc.) are what kills your goodwill and fan base momentum. People don't expect undefeated seasons, but they do expect the team to not take a dump in the 4th quarter over and over again.
 



Ski U Master said:
People will only come back so many times, and in 50+ years there have been too many letdowns for a lot of people.
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Agreed. And if the Vikings go, it is a fact that it will be easier for the Gophers to start winning. You cannot dispute this point.

If your opinion is that "I think the impact of the Vikings leaving is so small that I don't want to trade that for the Vikings leaving," then fine. It's your opinion.

What I want people to start realizing is that there is an impact. It cannot be disputed.

You can put all of the facts and charts up that you want with positive and negative correlations between NFL teams and college success but those graphs are only relevant if the only factor in success is the pro/college relationship. Because it isn't, you can't make those types of blanket statements and correlations because there are so many factors at play in each situation.

The only thing you can say is that the Vikings presence is to some degree a hinderance on the Gopher football team. That's it - nothing more, nothing less. To what degree that is that you want to believe is up to you.
 

Ski U Master said:
That's not what I said. The epic collapses and unbelievable defeats (TTech, Wisconsin punt, Michigan '03, NDSUs, etc.) are what kills your goodwill and fan base momentum. People don't expect undefeated seasons, but they do expect the team to not take a dump in the 4th quarter over and over again.
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All of the examples in your above post occurred after 10/10/2003, so the "over and over again" part of your post is incorrect according to your examples. So using logic, since 10/10/2003 occurred before your other examples, people wouldn't have been let down over and over, and thus should have showed up on 10/18/2003.

But that wouldn't support your theory so I guess we should just ignore it, right?
 

josh087 said:
All of the examples in your above post occurred after 10/10/2003, so the "over and over again" part of your post is incorrect according to your examples. So using logic, since 10/10/2003 occurred before your other examples, people wouldn't have been let down over and over, and thus should have showed up on 10/18/2003.

But that wouldn't support your theory so I guess we should just ignore it, right?
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Games where we blew a 4th quarter lead or killed seasonal momentum after getting some steam going:
Northwestern 2000: Wildcats score 20 in the 4th to win.
Ohio State 1999: Ranked #24 against a mediocre Ohio State team (ended up 6-6), Gophers are up 3 at home heading into the 4th. Lose 20-17.
Sun Bowl 1999: After beating #2 PSU, Indiana, and Iowa and ranked #12 in the country, lose to unranked (although 8-3) Oregon after being up by 7 in the fourth. While driving for a possible game winning score with under a minute left, Cockerham fumbles.
Purdue 2001: Taking the lead 28-17 with 8 minutes left in the game at home, Purdue scores a TD and a FG in the final 4:00 and then the game winner in OT.
Wisconsin 1999: Up 3 early in the fourth, lose in OT at home.

Also:
Being terrible against our rivals for two decades doesn't help grow the fan base. In the last 20 years we have only 4 wins against Wisconsin and 7 against Iowa (Thank God for the last two seasons), Michigan isn't even a rival anymore, but if you are still counting we have beaten them once in 20 years.
 

josh087 said:
Agreed. And if the Vikings go, it is a fact that it will be easier for the Gophers to start winning. You cannot dispute this point.

If your opinion is that "I think the impact of the Vikings leaving is so small that I don't want to trade that for the Vikings leaving," then fine. It's your opinion.

What I want people to start realizing is that there is an impact. It cannot be disputed.
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Why can't anyone dispute that point? Can you prove that if the Vikings leave town, the Gophers will have a better football program? If you can absolutely prove and guarantee that the Gophers football team would be better in the short and long term with the Vikings leaving Minnesota, I'm all for it.
 




josh087 said:
Agreed. And if the Vikings go, it is a fact that it will be easier for the Gophers to start winning. You cannot dispute this point.

If your opinion is that "I think the impact of the Vikings leaving is so small that I don't want to trade that for the Vikings leaving," then fine. It's your opinion.

What I want people to start realizing is that there is an impact. It cannot be disputed.
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What you need to realize is that in no way is it a fact if the Vikings leave it will become easier for the Gophers to starting winning.

Why anyone would think this can't be disputed is beyond belief.
 

If the Vikings leave:

A. The Gopher attendance will/will not increase
B. The Gopher attendance will/will not go through the roof
C. It will/will not be easier for the Gophers to win games.
D. It will/will not increase revenues for the Gophers.
E. It will/will not increase fan support for the Gophers.
F. It will/will not increase media coverage for the Gophers.
G. Other.

Maybe we should all pick one of the above(when making a post) so we are discussing/arguing the same point.
 

If the Vikings leave it will not be easier for the Gophers to win. That's just ridiculous and makes no sense.
 

If the Vikings leave, it is unlikely that the media focus on the NFL will decrease. The media will focus on whatever NFL team the local area covers (I think they would switch to the Packers). The media would focus on pointing fingers for the Vikings leaving, and on the efforts to get another NFL team here.
 

zambam said:
If the Vikings leave it will not be easier for the Gophers to win. That's just ridiculous and makes no sense.
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Yup, you're probably right - the reason athletic directors from around the country recently met with the sole purpose being to discuss how to compete in the same media market as NFL teams must have been because it is just as easy to win being in the same NFL market as without.

You must know a lot more about this than all of these professionals with decades working in the collegiate athletic administration field.
 

josh087 said:
Yup, you're probably right - the reason athletic directors from around the country recently met with the sole purpose being to discuss how to compete in the same media market as NFL teams must have been because it is just as easy to win being in the same NFL market as without.

You must know a lot more about this than all of these professionals with decades working in the collegiate athletic administration field.
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Is this why your last post cannot be disputed? Because some AD's met on how to increase interest in their programs that exist in a market with an NFL team?

Either way, what were some ideas they came up with that the U could implement?
 

josh087 said:
Yup, you're probably right - the reason athletic directors from around the country recently met with the sole purpose being to discuss how to compete in the same media market as NFL teams must have been because it is just as easy to win being in the same NFL market as without.

You must know a lot more about this than all of these professionals with decades working in the collegiate athletic administration field.
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I believe what they meant by compete was compete for fans. Give me one logical reason why the Vikings being in Minnesota affects the Gopher football team's ability to win games.
 

Ahhh...my favorite GH activity. See a post that may or may not interest me, ignore, let it bake for 4+ pages. Read the first page, and then jump to the 4th (5th? 10th?) page see and what it has devolved into. Never fails to satisfy.

Not trying to rip anyone, or their own perspective, I just find it an interesting observation about how boards drift.
 

zambam said:
I believe what they meant by compete was compete for fans. Give me one logical reason why the Vikings being in Minnesota affects the Gopher football team's ability to win games.
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It shouldn't be difficult to grasp that playing the same sport, at the same time of year, on consectutive days 95% of the time, as a team playing in either the most popular, or the 2nd most popular (english premier league) sports league in the world would affect your ability to win games.

In Iowa City, the overwhelming vast majority of the coverage is Hawkeyes. Columbus, Madison, Happy Valley, etc - it is the college sport that is king. People are not that smart. They will follow whatever you shove in front of them - not blindly, you have to win too - but they will pay attention.

Attention breeds passion. Passion breeds interest. Interest breeds better players. Better players breeds more wins.

Is it the #1 thing on my wish list for the Gophers? Absolutely not. There are several things that have hurt the Gophers more than being in a pro market. For example, like DP said earlier in this thread - the most important thing you can do is to hire the right coach. Hiring that magical coach could change everything.

However, you can not dispute there is an effect of being in a pro market, and the effect is negative.
 

If the Vikings leave, will it make it easier for the Gophers to draw fans?
- Possibly. If the drunken party goers that currently flock to the dome choose to take over TCF, then yes. If not, it might attract some hardcore football fans, but that's about it.

If the Vikings leave, will it make it more likely the Gophers will be more successful on the field? There is no correlation.
 

josh087 said:
It shouldn't be difficult to grasp that playing the same sport, at the same time of year, on consectutive days 95% of the time, as a team playing in either the most popular, or the 2nd most popular (english premier league) sports league in the world would affect your ability to win games.

In Iowa City, the overwhelming vast majority of the coverage is Hawkeyes. Columbus, Madison, Happy Valley, etc - it is the college sport that is king. People are not that smart. They will follow whatever you shove in front of them - not blindly, you have to win too - but they will pay attention.

Attention breeds passion. Passion breeds interest. Interest breeds better players. Better players breeds more wins.

Is it the #1 thing on my wish list for the Gophers? Absolutely not. There are several things that have hurt the Gophers more than being in a pro market. For example, like DP said earlier in this thread - the most important thing you can do is to hire the right coach. Hiring that magical coach could change everything.

However, you can not dispute there is an effect of being in a pro market, and the effect is negative.
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So your assumption is more fans = better players? There is no precedent for this.
 

It is possible that without the Vikings, the Gophers have some increased ticket sales, and thus have increased revenues. But I don't think that would result in a packed house unless the Gophers were doing well. An increase in revenue could help, but it is far from a magic bullet.

I don't know if it would result in an increase in local media coverage of the Gophers. I could just as easily see the sports section with headlines like "Day 500 without an NFL team".
 

zambam said:
So your assumption is more fans = better players? There is no precedent for this.
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Seriously? More fans = more kids growing up dreaming of playing for that school = a larger pool of talent to choose from.
 

FreakyDeke said:
Seriously? More fans = more kids growing up dreaming of playing for that school = a larger pool of talent to choose from.
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Locally, yes. But would getting one or two more players from Minnesota really get us more wins?
 

A wise man said not to count your chickens before they hatch. If the Vikings left, the Gophers might see some increased revenues. But the stadium isn't going to be packed just because the Vikings aren't there, we would still need a good team. It's a stretch to think that the Vikings leaving would have players more likely to want to come to the University of Minnesota. I don't think NFL coverage in the media would decrease much if at all. People would still be watching the NFL on Sundays, and the papers would be filled with efforts to bring a new team here.
 

zambam said:
Locally, yes. But would getting one or two more players from Minnesota really get us more wins?
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You don't think a guy like Michael Floyd would have made a difference in at least a couple games, especially in a situation like in 2008 when Decker went down?

Look what Auburn did with Cam Newton + Nick Fairley.

Not saying we will always have those types of players available in our own backyard, and this isn't basketball where one or two guys can rocket you from worst in the league to first, but a couple of impact players in football can still make a pretty big difference.
 

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