Should the Vikes be able to play in TCF for the rest of the season?

Vikes at TCF for rest of 2010

  • Ya we are neighbors and a good relationship helps the gophers too

    Votes: 126 77.3%

  • No this is the Gophers stadium!

    Votes: 37 22.7%
  • Total voters
    163
  • Poll closed .
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Here's an idea. If the metrodome can't be fixed, and TCF isn't available...play it in lambeau. I know on the surface, it is a horrible idea, I'm not stupid. Hear (see?) me out.

It would be a home game for you guys. While the Packers fans hate you, it is impossible for them to win the division if the bears win out going into week 17. With the Lions loss, the Bears would have the tie-breaker even if the Pack win week 17. They NEED a Vikings win.

I can see it now....
*bumba cheche bumba cheche* GO VIKES GO!
 

It might be unreasonable to gouge, but it is also unreasonable for the U not to make some money on this. At the very least, we keep all the parking revenues. That and the Vikings pay for getting the stadium ready before and for cleaning and re-winterizing it might be enough, or close to it. Are they working on getting TCF ready, or is all the focus on repairing the dome in time?
 

There is no way it isn't fixed by next Monday.
 

Goldmember said:
I am saying that the U should let them play there. But it would be insanity for them to not get rent and revenue. That's just how the world works. Sorry.

Bitter would be the putting the Vikings in touch with the folks at USC. Or telling them to get bent, (which is exactly what they did to the Gophers for two decades).

I'm equally a fan of both teams. Sorry if I'm not a naive little Pollyanna like most Viking fans. Just like I don't think the Viking need to be gone for the U to be successful, I also don't think the Vikings need to keep hitting-up The U for cash. No other NFL team does that.

I agree that a lot of Gopher fans are are overly sensative about all-things Vikings. But considering the history there it's hard to blame them for being a little concerned.

And if the U ever decides to play hard-ball in the state's dealings with the Vikings I will also not blame them. The state made it's bed when it tossed the Vikings and Twins a cupcake by prohibiting alcohol in the suites at TCF. They fired all the bullets in their gun at the U.

By the way, the state and the MSFC are not exactly the same thing. And the state does not own or run either the U or TCF.
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The point I was making is that it's not really about the Vikings in this case. How are they 'hitting up the U for Cash'? The MSFC is the one over a barrel here and I'm pretty sure they will be the ones paying any costs associated with this. So why does the U need hold out and try to make a profit off of them? They are both public entities. MSFC should pay any costs that are incurred and that should be the end of it. The U will get free publicity. That should be payment enough. There's no need for playing hard-ball here.

If we're talking about playing there for two years while the stadium is built, that is between the Vikings and U and is a seperate discussion. I still don't understand this feeling that the U should tell the Vikings to get bent. How did the Vikings tell the U this for decades? Because the U had a poor lease at the Dome? How is that the Vikings fault? The Twins had a pretty bad lease too.
 


howeda7 said:
The point I was making is that it's not really about the Vikings in this case. How are they 'hitting up the U for Cash'? The MSFC is the one over a barrel here and I'm pretty sure they will be the ones paying any costs associated with this. So why does the U need hold out and try to make a profit off of them? They are both public entities. MSFC should pay any costs that are incurred and that should be the end of it. The U will get free publicity. That should be payment enough. There's no need for playing hard-ball here.

If we're talking about playing there for two years while the stadium is built, that is between the Vikings and U and is a seperate discussion. I still don't understand this feeling that the U should tell the Vikings to get bent. How did the Vikings tell the U this for decades? Because the U had a poor lease at the Dome? How is that the Vikings fault? The Twins had a pretty bad lease too.
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The MSFC is just fine. They're champs. They make so damn much money that they literally have no idea what the hell to do with it all. And that's one huge reasons why the Vikings were pissed about the Metrodome after they hadn't even played there for 20 years. One of the reasons the Viking pulled-the-plug on the Blaine plan is that it left no reason to demolish the Metrodome. And the MSFC could continue operating it, at a profit, for decades. The Vikings were afraid the Metrodome would be a preferred venue over their new stadium on the outskirts of town.

If anyone wants a free-bee from the U they are "hitting them up for cash". It's that simple. No one has done that yet. But someone will suggest it, because people are stupid. And they don't realize that such a free-bee is tantamount to student-fees subsiding the the NFL's operations.

I never said anything is the Vikings fault. They're a business. When they negotiate with the state for money, and the state decides to murder the U and pay the Vikings with blood-money, I agree that it isn't the Vikings fault. It's just a strange circumstance. One of those eat-your-young, "only in Minnesota" sort of moments.

You're posts suggest that you are willing to ignore how government works. It's not like this is all one big pot of "state money" and that we should all "make nice and share". Various entities have financial responsibilities and obligations that they need to meet.
 

howeda7 said:
This was a factor. But it's pretty clear if TCF had been available they'd have gone there. Since it wasn't, Detroit, NO, etc. were the only viable options. They were never going to Fargo. They're not going to shoe-horn an NFL game into a stadium that tiny, no matter how few people show up in Detroit. It's partially about image. Playing a game at a rinky-dink stadium in North Dakota was never going to happen. And before anyone rips me, we played our MN Football section finals there and considered it a great honor. But an NFL venue it is not.
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I assume by rinky-dink you are referring to size. also assume that the Metrodome is an NFL facility. The Fargodome is at least on par with, if not nicer than the Dome ammenity wise, notwithstanding the 45000 seat difference.
 

Swede said:
I assume by rinky-dink you are referring to size. also assume that the Metrodome is an NFL facility. The Fargodome is at least on par with, if not nicer than the Dome ammenity wise, notwithstanding the 45000 seat difference.
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Except for hotels, entertainment, and tall buildings that aren't silos in the surrounding area. It's Fargo! The NFL will never play a game there!
 

Goldmember said:
The MSFC is just fine. They're champs. They make so damn much money that they literally have no idea what the hell to do with it all. And that's one huge reasons why the Vikings were pissed about the Metrodome after they hadn't even played there for 20 years. One of the reasons the Viking pulled-the-plug on the Blaine plan is that it left no reason to demolish the Metrodome. And the MSFC could continue operating it, at a profit, for decades. The Vikings were afraid the Metrodome would be a preferred venue over their new stadium on the outskirts of town.

If anyone wants a free-bee from the U they are "hitting them up for cash". It's that simple. No one has done that yet. But someone will suggest it, because people are stupid. And they don't realize that such a free-bee is tantamount to student-fees subsiding the the NFL's operations.

I never said anything is the Vikings fault. They're a business. When they negotiate with the state for money, and the state decides to murder the U and pay the Vikings with blood-money, I agree that it isn't the Vikings fault. It's just a strange circumstance. One of those eat-your-young, "only in Minnesota" sort of moments.

You're posts suggest that you are willing to ignore how government works. It's not like this is all one big pot of "state money" and that we should all "make nice and share". Various entities have financial responsibilities and obligations that they need to meet.
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The idea that the Dome would stay open and operate at a profit without the Vikings is flat-out false. They have said that if the Vikings leave, they will need a state-subsidy to continue to operate or close it down. There is zero chance the Dome and a new Vikings stadium will operate at the same time.

No one is suggesting the U give anyone a handout, but the idea that they need to profit from this is also absurd. Of course it's not 'one big pool of money' but two state-government entities should 'make nice and share' in a time of crisis. There is clearly resentment on this board for both the very existence of the Dome and the Vikings. I don't know all of the details of the Gophers decision to move in, but no one had a gun to their head and it's water under bridge.
 



Swede said:
I assume by rinky-dink you are referring to size. also assume that the Metrodome is an NFL facility. The Fargodome is at least on par with, if not nicer than the Dome ammenity wise, notwithstanding the 45000 seat difference.
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Yes. Size. The NFL hasn't played a game in a venue that small in decades. It was never a viable option. Period.
 

howeda7 said:
Yes. Size. The NFL hasn't played a game in a venue that small in decades. It was never a viable option. Period.
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Rogers Centre in Toronto (formerly Skydome) only holds about 54,000, which isn't much larger than TCF, and the Bills have played several regular season games there over the past two years. (the size is also the reason that the Bills moving to T.O. is not a realistic option).

Edit - I thought he was talking about TCF - not the Fargodome. My mistake.
 

howeda7 said:
The idea that the Dome would stay open and operate at a profit without the Vikings is flat-out false. They have said that if the Vikings leave, they will need a state-subsidy to continue to operate or close it down. There is zero chance the Dome and a new Vikings stadium will operate at the same time.
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Really? And you really believe this?

Why do you suppose a private business bought the Silverdome?

Charity? Because they were trying to lose money holding events in a dead part of a dying metro area competing against a state-of-the art downtown facility?
 

highwayman said:
TCF Bank Stadium cannot be used. It was not designed for extended use in sub-freezing temperatures. The water and sewer system in the concourse will freeze and fail. It has also been winterized and the system has been filled with anti-freeze. It will take a week just to purge that from the potable water.

No chance.
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so when it gets really cold in November we won't be able to play games at tcf? This is completely made up by you.
 



The people who bought the Silverdome certainly aren't trying to fail. But just because someone bought it doesn't mean that it was a good business decision. This month, there is a wrestling match. That's it. In January, there is a boxing match, with the current WBF Light Welterweight champion Devon Alexander. In February, there is a Snocross event, and in March, a home and garden show. I didn't give the highlights, these are all the events scheduled. It's quite possible that the Silverdome may remain a viable venue, but it is by no means certain. An indoor venue is useful, but we have indoor venues, I went to a lacrosse game at Excel this spring. I think if the Vikings aren't there, the real estate will be more valuable than the dome is. If the dome were to go away, I would miss it for Gophers baseball. Not a great place to watch baseball, but it does allow games to be played at home early.
 


RodentRampage said:
The people who bought the Silverdome certainly aren't trying to fail. But just because someone bought it doesn't mean that it was a good business decision. This month, there is a wrestling match. That's it. In January, there is a boxing match, with the current WBF Light Welterweight champion Devon Alexander. In February, there is a Snocross event, and in March, a home and garden show. I didn't give the highlights, these are all the events scheduled. It's quite possible that the Silverdome may remain a viable venue, but it is by no means certain. An indoor venue is useful, but we have indoor venues, I went to a lacrosse game at Excel this spring. I think if the Vikings aren't there, the real estate will be more valuable than the dome is. If the dome were to go away, I would miss it for Gophers baseball. Not a great place to watch baseball, but it does allow games to be played at home early.
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Your assumption that more events than these would be required to opperate a facility that is already paid for (or acquired at no cost) is likely false. Keep in mind: an NFL lease only adds 10-12 events/year; and the league requires very "demanding" terms. Events like those that you describe are far more lucrative to the owner of the venue. Also, the Metrodome is located in Downtown Minneapolis, which is a considerably more attractive location for events than Pontiac.

If an indoor stadium is built for the Vikings near downtown, obviously the Metrodome is instantly worthless. But if they build a stadium in Blaine (especially an outdoor stadium) or any other fringe suburb, the Metrodome isn't going anywhere for decades.
 

The dome may be paid for, but that doesn't mean that we will stop paying for it, it's quite expensive just to keep the roof inflated. The real estate values in Detroit are much lower than they are in downtown Minneapolis. Without the Vikings, there is little need for a 60,000 seat venue.
 

Goldmember said:
Really? And you really believe this?

Why do you suppose a private business bought the Silverdome?

Charity? Because they were trying to lose money holding events in a dead part of a dying metro area competing against a state-of-the art downtown facility?
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Yes, I believe it. First, because the MSFC has no reason to lie about that. Also, it's logical. The Vikings are and were the only ones paying rent. The Dome makes enough money off the Vikings rent/concessions to turn a profit. Without them? Not a chance. Especially if there's a new Vikings stadium elsewhere in the Metro. I have no idea the viability of the Silver Dome, though I think the follow-up post points out it is not swimming in cash. The Miami Arena was sold to a private investor after both the Heath and Panthers moved out. It flailed around for a few years and failed. The fact that someone will buy it doesn't prove anything. The Silver Dome is also not in downtown Detroit. The Metrodome is in downtown Minneapolis. The land it sits on is far more valuable then an empty Dome. Whoever does 'buy' it would probably do much better by knocking it down and using the land for something else.
 

howeda7 said:
Yes, I believe it. First, because the MSFC has no reason to lie about that.
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I can think of a few.

I'm not accusing them of it... because I have never heard anyone with the MSFC say this outright.

But if I was operating the Metrodome I would be much more comfortable with my ability to pay all the bills with an NFL lessee than without one. That doesn't mean I couldn't make it happen if that suddenly became my job.

BTW, the dome is operated much like a public park. The value of the 20 acres doesn't even belong in the discussion. The Minneapolis Park Board could liquidate its parks too, and have them developed, but it isn't going to happen because the Park Board's mission is not profitability.

The mission of the dome is different than that of a real estate investor. The dome just needs to break-even. By government standards, that gets you a gold star. A real estate investor has a much higher bar for success, more on the order of 20%+ returns.

The biggest reason private investors fail when they own these buildings is not that the buildings don't generate cash. It's that they can't compete with the new stadiums that pop-up around them (i.e. competition), for which construction is subsidized and operating expenses come property tax-free.
 


highwayman said:
TCF Bank Stadium cannot be used. It was not designed for extended use in sub-freezing temperatures. The water and sewer system in the concourse will freeze and fail. It has also been winterized and the system has been filled with anti-freeze. It will take a week just to purge that from the potable water.

No chance.
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don't you feel stupid now! Maybe you will learn a lesson that talking out of your ass on topics you don't know anything about makes you look stupid.
 

I beleive i heard a couple of years ago that it costs around 7 million dollars a year just to keep the Metrodome inflated, without any other maintence costs. I don't know for sure, but a stadium nearing 30 years old can't be getting cheaper to operate.
 

highwayman said:
TCF Bank Stadium cannot be used. It was not designed for extended use in sub-freezing temperatures. The water and sewer system in the concourse will freeze and fail. It has also been winterized and the system has been filled with anti-freeze. It will take a week just to purge that from the potable water.

No chance.
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lol....who do some of you people think you are?
 


The U doesn't have to allow anyone else to use the stadium if they don't want to. The state constitution gives the U autonomy. If you have a problem with that, change the constitution. The U is all in favor of letting the Vikings play there, so the point is moot, but the "we paid for it" argument is void.
 

Brew_recruit said:
don't you feel stupid now! Maybe you will learn a lesson that talking out of your ass on topics you don't know anything about makes you look stupid.
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Why should he feel stupid? What you are describing is the culture of this message board to a tee. Just ask "bloblaw," no standards, just mindless blather and whatever comes to mind! Yaddy, yaddy, yada....old Joel better stick it to dem Vikings and make us about 5,000,000 buckeroos on dis der deal er else!:clap:
 

RodentRampage said:
The U doesn't have to allow anyone else to use the stadium if they don't want to. The state constitution gives the U autonomy. If you have a problem with that, change the constitution. The U is all in favor of letting the Vikings play there, so the point is moot, but the "we paid for it" argument is void.
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Link please?
 




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