Shooter: Season schedule "should easily allow first-year coach PJ Fleck a 5-0 start"

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We agree on that

joshvanklomp said:
I don't have a problem with saying there's a chance at 5-0, but I have a problem with the "easily."
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It's not easy to beat anybody in the the Big Ten or Oregon State on the road. Heck, MAC teams beat Big Ten teams.:cool:
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You consistently can't see the forest through the trees so I'm not surprised you keep going this route. The Gophers have talent at 2 positions. LB and RB. They also have solid starters on the DL, but little depth. Everything else is a big question mark.
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Not only that, but there is a chance that some of the upper class men will not buy in.
 

If you're 'Pro-Claeys' we have tons of talent and should be great next year....or else!

If you're 'Pro-Fleck' we are young and thin at most positions and probably will need a full recruiting class or two before we reach our potential.

As for Shooter, he's just doing his duty to unfairly prop up expectations so his colleagues can easily write columns next fall bashing the program if they stumble out of the gates. Classic tradition, really.
 

GopherHomer said:
As for Shooter, he's just doing his duty to unfairly prop up expectations so his colleagues can easily write columns next fall bashing the program if they stumble out of the gates. Classic tradition, really.
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Fleck has been running around talking about how we are going to be elite, not Shooter. Clearly, 9-4 wasn't elite, so why shouldn't we expect better?
 


PMWinSTP said:
It's not me, it's you. nice try at the dig, but severely off the mark. You look pretty foolish tamping down the expectations. Frankly, it is borderline comical.

This team has good talent waiting to have the opportunity to shine. PJ is a perceived better HC, so I expect the success to be sustained and then "grow higher" as he says. You may be surprised when they start 5-0 and win 8 in the regular season, but many others, including me, will not be.
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No, it's you.

Placing lofty expectations on PJ in his first season when players are adjusting to a new scheme is just unrealistic. What's baffling to me is how so many people on this board can't see that PJ wasn't hired to get us a return trip to the Holiday Bowl next year, he was hired with with an eye on breaking through that self imposed glass ceiling in the long run.

Our expectations should be higher for the program in two to three years but to set the guy up next year for a 5-0 start is just another way to try to slam him in a few months for being the enthusiastic guy he is. He's the head coach of the University of Minnesota not Hogwarts, so the normal human curve of program building still applies.


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We obviously didn't need the 10 players for the Holiday Bowl...a good chunk of them never played a snap all year. We also only have about a dozen seniors graduating...Claeys and Kill rarely had a full cupboard of seniors...which means we have fewer to replace with the recruiting class and redshirts ready to play. The question is who is going to be our quarterback...but it wasn't like we won the Holiday Bowl with a QB who won accolades....Rhoda is 1-0 starting Croft has had plenty of time to develop, McLaurin is a JUCO, and we have Fleck's recruit, Morgan. In addition there's talk of recruiting another QB, perhaps Glover or Estes (if they even want him at QB). Most importantly we might have a QB coach who can make the position an area of strength. I am always optimistic...I'll say 5-0.
 


Interesting that all the anti-Claeys pro-Fleck trumpeters are now claiming Fleck can't get it done. I was pro-Claeys and I believe Fleck will. He looks to be an elite hire. Row like a Mother!
 



Last season, we had new offensive and defensive coordinators, so there were new schemes to learn, and our team did well in picking those schemes up. This was due to the returning experience we had at most position groups. Went back and looked at the Central Mich. game and we lost 3 OL, 1 RB, 1FB, and 1 WR on Offense while on D we lost 3 DL, 1 LB and 3 DB on Defense from our 2 deeps postion chart, heading into this past season. That team went out and won 8 regular season games and then the bowl game over Wash. State.
Now this coming season the team will need to learn some new offensive and defensive schemes. Will be more learning to do this season with entirely new staff and terminology, but we also have the same amount of talent returning as we did in the previous season as the 2 deep position chart from the bowl game shows we lose 3 OL(Moore transfer), 1 QB, 1WR on Offense, and 3 DL, 2 LB's and 3 DB's from that Wash. State Game.
Don't see any reason why there shouldn't be optimism with the coming season. Yes OSU will be a tough game, but we get a tune up game prior to it. Then get to start out with Maryland at home and Purdue(who also has an entirely new coaching staff) on the road.
We may not match exactly the win total from this past season, but to go below 7 wins would be a major step backward.
Thought Claeys did a good job this year, sad in the way the firing was handled. Excited with the hiring of Fleck and am hopeful he is going to get us to the Elite level. Ski-U-Mah!
 

We should be better than all the teams we play in our first 5 games. Expecting a 5-0 start is absolutely realistic. Why is that such a crazy concept?
 

Oregon Gopher said:
Btw - I am not and was not a Hire PJ guy. Wish TC was still here.


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That explains your worries :) Who knows what will happen though, but there should be plenty of talent for a good year.

Also, the worry some have about running kids off to reculture the program is overstated because I believe the previous staff overall ran a really positive program, and kids are willing to work, go to class, etc So, I think they will be able to find enough athletes at DB and be fine.


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Gopherphile said:
No, it's you.

Placing lofty expectations on PJ in his first season when players are adjusting to a new scheme is just unrealistic. What's baffling to me is how so many people on this board can't see that PJ wasn't hired to get us a return trip to the Holiday Bowl next year, he was hired with with an eye on breaking through that self imposed glass ceiling in the long run.

Our expectations should be higher for the program in two to three years but to set the guy up next year for a 5-0 start is just another way to try to slam him in a few months for being the enthusiastic guy he is. He's the head coach of the University of Minnesota not Hogwarts, so the normal human curve of program building still applies.


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The program has already been built up. He's inheriting a program in pretty good shape, not what Mason, Brewster, or Kill inherited. As Michael Rand accurately stated, he's coming into the best situation of any first-year Gophers football coach in many decades. Getting to a bowl game has to be the absolute minimum floor, and preferably another 8/9 win season, as has been accomplished 3 out of the last 4 seasons. It's ok to have expectations.
 



dpodoll68 said:
The program has already been built up. He's inheriting a program in pretty good shape, not what Mason, Brewster, or Kill inherited. As Michael Rand accurately stated, he's coming into the best situation of any first-year Gophers football coach in many decades. Getting to a bowl game has to be the absolute minimum floor, and preferably another 8/9 win season, as has been accomplished 3 out of the last 4 seasons. It's ok to have expectations.
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I'd argue that Claeys came into the best situation of any first year coach in many decades. PJ is in second place by that definition.
 

Some guy said:
Agree. I'd hope for 4-1.
If TC was the coach next year I'd expect a 4-1 or 3-2 start.
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Why? They won every game they were supposed to last year. They would have started 5-0, likely. Also likely this staff will. 4-1, maybe, with a hiccup in a game.




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dpodoll68 said:
The program has already been built up. He's inheriting a program in pretty good shape, not what Mason, Brewster, or Kill inherited. As Michael Rand accurately stated, he's coming into the best situation of any first-year Gophers football coach in many decades. Getting to a bowl game has to be the absolute minimum floor, and preferably another 8/9 win season, as has been accomplished 3 out of the last 4 seasons. It's ok to have expectations.
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Well said.


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imthewalrus said:
I don't agree with that. Did you expect TC and the kids to beat WSU in the bowl game with all the chaos, disruption and looming disaster and pending firing of TC & the STAFFERS? Well, the better team won in San Diego. The better COACHED team won in San Diego. The kids knew they were most likely playing for the last time for TC & the STAFFERS. Now THAT is what shows me that IF Fleck coaches to the STRENGTHS of the players he has returning, with that schedule there is NOT a single reason on earth that the Gopher Football Team can not start the season 5-0.

Quite frankly, I believe that the Gopher may have equally as easy/or/difficult schedule in 2017 as they did in 2016. How many of you saw the PSU game @ PSU as an easy game? Probably entirely too many, I would guess. Well, that PSU team was EXPLOSIVE and GOOD and they won the Big Ten Championship. THAT was one of the toughest games the GOPHER could have possibly drawn last year. At the same time, MSU was HORRIBLE. What a terrible time NOT to have MSU on the schedule.

Nebraska @ Lincoln is NEVER an easy game. wisky @ Madison is NEVER an easy game.

One never knows from season to season who the toughest teams in the conference will be. It is easy to assume tOSU & Michigan...but...neither of those teams were in the Big Ten Championship game.

I would have to say that IF Fleck is good at identifying the STRENGTH of his new team, this GOPHER team could easily duplicate last seasons 9-4 record with a bowl win. The 2017 schedule is just NOT that difficult a schedule...looking at it today. We will have to revisit the schedule as the games are played. Minnesota could very well have the HOT HAND in 2017...assuming Fleck can coach to the strength of the team and just forget about having a practice season or two until he gets all his "own" guys.

I really do not understand how the flocks of fleck followers who are so excited about him can be so certain that it will be a "tough" first season for our poor, under-manned, under-coaching-staffed returning 9-4 team? Every coach will face some adversity...but...COACH to the STRENGTH of the team high priced coach with the high priced coaching staff.

SHOW the people of Minnesota that you have got what it takes Coach Fleck!

ps I think it is entirely possible that TC & the STAFFERS, IF they were returning could have matched or beaten their record from 2016. I have NO reason to think otherwise.
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I think replacing Liedner and Wolitarski will be more difficult than people think. I don't see anyone on the roster who can do the limited things they could do.

As bad as they were in some big games, they were solid enough in the "should win" games to go win all of them.


I agree the schedule isn't that much tougher than last year. I would say it is a bit tougher as I think Michigan State is tougher than Rutgers but Penn State this year and Michigan next year seem to be a wash.

That being said, the schedule has those tougher games at home, meaning if you aren't good enough to beat Wisconsin and Nebraska it is a much tougher schedule because the close games are on the road (Oregon state, northwestern)


I would expect 6-6 next year and would consider 7-5 with a success with TC. I'll expect the same thing with PJ.
2018-19 I'll have much higher expectations.
 

As an alum of both schools, I can say the Oregon State game will be a tossup. They were a much improved team by the end of the season and other than a blowout loss to CU, competitive in all games. Gary Andersen has done a tear down to the studs rebuild and last season they had awful luck with injuries. The one question mark will be the O-line. They need to find a right tackle and some depth. GA is an aggressive recruiter and has upgraded the talent significantly since taking over for Mr Nice Guy.
 

GopherHomer said:
If you're 'Pro-Claeys' we have tons of talent and should be great next year....or else!

If you're 'Pro-Fleck' we are young and thin at most positions and probably will need a full recruiting class or two before we reach our potential.

As for Shooter, he's just doing his duty to unfairly prop up expectations so his colleagues can easily write columns next fall bashing the program if they stumble out of the gates. Classic tradition, really.
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Hope this isn't the new Mason vs. Brewster era. Fleck is our coach, let's support him. People can do that and not be anti-Claeys.


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Ozzy: I think we were supposed to beat Iowa...
 

You will know when the Minnesota football program has arrived. Opposing teams will play their best against us. Minnesota will almost never be a homecoming opponent. Pre-season polls will include Minnesota even when “fans” know they are not deserving that particular year. Coaches on the team will be sought after head coaches. A 5 – 0 start is a meaningless stat in the journey to becoming an elite football program. Where Minnesota football is in 5 years will tell the entire story. I suspect it will be in a good place.
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shooter:

The first five football games for the Gophers next season — Buffalo, Oregon State, Middle Tennessee, Maryland and Purdue — should easily allow first-year coach P.J. Fleck a 5-0 start.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/01/1...ve-gotten-better-as-gophers-basketball-coach/

Go Gophers!!
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Take out the "easily" and Walters is dead on.

That would mean that any trolls/ "fans" who are predicting a 6 win season are saying that the Gophers will go either 1-6 or 2-5 to end their season after losing to Oregon State. That's coming with many players on the roster who just came off a 9-4 season.

Trolls just to generate responses. "Fans" who believe that Fleck may be the worst coach in the country.
 


If we don't win 10 games then we will know that firing TC was wrong. Too bad the buyout on PJ is so high as everyone will be looking at it if we don't win 10.


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Spoofin said:
If we don't win 10 games then we will know that firing TC was wrong. Too bad the buyout on PJ is so high as everyone will be looking at it if we don't win 10.


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Would not be totally surprising. Also, it would be a legitimate question. Perhaps it would have been cheaper, and in some ways better to have just bought out the ad and prexy k. Every department in the men's revenue side of things has been somewhat problematic, including those who question the men's hockey program...
 

EASILY is what most who take issue with his statement would point to.

Gophers first seven opponents had losing records in 2016. And there are only two away games in that 7-game stretch.

I think most expect a 7-win start. But to say it's going to be easy is sort of crazy. We have no idea how improved some of these 7 teams will be.
 

Where is all this great talent returning everyone is seeing? No quarterback that has started a game. No proven reciever. Solid tight ends. Decent at best offensive line. Good running backs. Decent d-line. Good linebackers. Questionable secondary considering no one knows who's going to be on the team next year. How is this loaded with talent?
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Not only that, but there is a chance that some of the upper class men will not buy in.
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Another point to consider. Fleck really likes the young, impressionable types. I worry that Fleck's system may be too fleck dependent...or, at least the head coach indicates as much with the way he describes his system. He says of himself: "iI am different..." All of his system seems to depend on the row the boat, elite, and the 200 word vocabulary all the players will be held accountable for.

"...Rowing the boat and being elite: in 200 words..." And THAT is why I will wait to see the W/L of the Big Ten portion of the schedule. I am a skeptic when it comes to listening to what people have to say. I watch what they do. I am pretty much totally of the belief that a BIG TEN win in hand is worth a bunch of Big Ten wins that the "think system" and the "culture" system thinks it can achieve sometime in the future, when coach has all "his" players.

Coach Fleck: you have GOT to play with the players you have TODAY. Change you schemes and system to MATCH UP with the strengths of the players you have got. Don't try to' baffle 'em with bs.' Just put them in their strongest position to win with what they are good at and can do.

Losing players from a system like the one Fleck sells is always a distinct possibility.
 

Spoofin said:
If we don't win 10 games then we will know that firing TC was wrong. Too bad the buyout on PJ is so high as everyone will be looking at it if we don't win 10.


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I certainly don't believe it's as simple as that.
 

CoMn said:
We obviously didn't need the 10 players for the Holiday Bowl...a good chunk of them never played a snap all year. We also only have about a dozen seniors graduating...Claeys and Kill rarely had a full cupboard of seniors...which means we have fewer to replace with the recruiting class and redshirts ready to play. The question is who is going to be our quarterback...but it wasn't like we won the Holiday Bowl with a QB who won accolades....Rhoda is 1-0 starting Croft has had plenty of time to develop, McLaurin is a JUCO, and we have Fleck's recruit, Morgan. In addition there's talk of recruiting another QB, perhaps Glover or Estes (if they even want him at QB). Most importantly we might have a QB coach who can make the position an area of strength. I am always optimistic...I'll say 5-0.
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Don't mistake getting by without a handful of players for one game as meaning we can get by without a similar handful for the rigors of an entire season.
 

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